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Shadow XII
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:40:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: White Tree
So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.

So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.

So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.

CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.

So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.







Your words fill me with hope and faith, White Tree, you Gallente ****.

I'm awaiting the end of the meeting with bated breath, but I trust you and the rest of the CSM to stand up for us. I don't believe you're in a conspiracy with CCP, nor that you will back down.

Please, come through for us.

ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
The Veerhouven Group
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:41:00 - [122]
 

Tree, I think that was a great post, but I'm just afraid that anything CCP does right now is a delaying tactic to allow them to get a better idea of the financial impact of Incarnageddon. I seriously doubt that they will even consider anything real until the dollar signs, Euro signs, etc. have been counted.

Jacoba Stalker
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:41:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: White Tree
So here we stand now at a crossroads. We've had documentation on the state of internal dialog with CCP made public, we've had analyses of CCPs 'apparent' financial affairs, we've caused a thunderous rumble that the entire gaming world has paid attention too. We've brought Jita to a halt and our collective outrage has caused CCP to stop on a dime and swing towards us with open ears. The CSM has been summoned for an emergency meeting, something that has only happened once before.

So now it may be time to reflect on what we've done. As a community we've come together to express our collective outrage, something I'm personally impressed and excited about. That seems strange though, to use the word 'excited', doesn't it? It's not that I'm not worried but my 'excitement' comes from this communities ability to be so loud, so mighty and so powerful that for brief moments in time we are nothing short of glorious supernovae in the proverbial galaxy of pinpoints that is gaming as a medium.

So, what do we do now? For me, and as many of the CSMs that can make it we will carry the torch of outrage to CCP. We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake. But this is where your opinions and mine may diverge, friends. I don't see our custodians of content as enemies. I can't because I've seen CCP Soundwave reminisce with CSM Seleene about some of the greatest events in EVEs history because he was there. I've sat and talked to CCP Tallest about how this game is balanced, and when I thought he might be getting bored of me he pulled me back because he wanted to talk about EVE with the sort of passion only someone who plaid the damn game would have. I've watched CCP Hilmar (an enemy as we've made him) tell The Mittani about how people in the gaming industry laughed at him when he talked about EVE, and yet here we all are. We walked through the art department knowing that these people spend many a night actually sleeping at the office and working into the wee hours because this was and still is their passion.

CCP isn't really an enemy to me and hey I'm sorry if you don't like that. CCP isn't infallible, they've boned this one, yeah I'm going to tell you that because its the truth. But they've never been infallible, so its our job to make sure that we steer them in the right direction because without the community Captaining this great ship to her ports of call we're all going to sink.

So what I'm asking you for now, as your CSM, as a member of the community and as an EVE player is a moment of patience. They know they fumbled the ball and they're calling half-time to sort their heads and we're going to be the coach that gives them the pep talk and sets them straight so that we, the denizens of New Eden can continue to enjoy this entirely unique and intricate experience.







I'm more than willing to step back and give this a chance to work.

No they are not the enemy, but this is almost like finding a spouse that's been unfaithful. It's difficult to regain the trust once it's been shat upon.

The Ying
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:43:00 - [124]
 

So.. people at CCP don't listen to the thousands of players that said NO to mt, don't listen to the gaming review sites, don't have common sense. They're going to listen to a couple dudes from CSM? interesting.

Starkiller Adams
Gallente
Interwebs Cooter Explosion
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:44:00 - [125]
 

1) I didnt know test let in gingers? :P
2) What do you personally want CCP to do to fix everything?
3) Should CCP be that st****d for cash what do you think would be a reasonable new price for subs?



RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:44:00 - [126]
 

Edited by: RougeOperator on 28/06/2011 03:44:33
Originally by: buck herrick
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Atlentia
Let's see what comes out of the meeting first, then pat ourselves on the back. I think the customers have spoken as to what has been bothering us for a long time, but my guess is none of those issues that have been sticking us in the side for so long will be addressed.


Just asking for a pause until we can get OUR heads round it and try to hammer out solutions.


QFT.

give the forums a rest, please.....my eyes are burning from trying to keep up :)

good luck WT (and all the others - except mittens who doesnt need any luck as he is obviously god already) - dont let us down.


No CCP needs to be reminded every other post that we are not going to go away.

Stop trying to help it blow over.

Enna Shendara
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:44:00 - [127]
 

You have the pause you've been asking for. But as someone said in another thread, we've paused to reload and see what the other side is doing. The fight isn't over yet, and the only way to make it end before the next salvo is if the other side is running up the white flag.

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:47:00 - [128]
 

WT,
I hope you're right. I really do.

Give 'em hell and good luck.

Atij Artua
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:47:00 - [129]
 

Pushing aside the rhetoric for a moment....

1. What are you going to say to CCP that hasn't already been said many hundreds of times on the forums?
2. Is the meeting NDA or not?
3. Why is CCP meeting with small group, possibly in closed session, instead of talking directly to the playerbase?
4. What are you aiming to achieve that needs a select group meeting that could not be achieved by direct communication with the players?

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:51:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Jacoba Stalker
No they are not the enemy, but this is almost like finding a spouse that's been unfaithful. It's difficult to regain the trust once it's been shat upon.


EXACTLY.

Another metaphor:

CCP = Cheating scumbag (Tiger Woods)

This CSM = Tammy Wynette (Stand by your man)

Last CSM = Elin Nordegren (Hand me a golf club, then half your money.)

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:53:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
Don't forget the martyrs in this either, CCP double tapped some very passionate players through some pretty screwed interpretation of opinion when emotions were white hot for some of these people.


The 'martyrs' are people like Mynxee and Teadaze, not some jackasses who made real life threats or used violent imagery.

I haven't been shy about sharing my opinion in the least and the ONE thing I give CCP credit for is that they haven't muzzled me.


I consider T'Amber and Estel Arador 'martyrs' as well for their efforts in trying to expand the game. T'amber left to protest/make a point seeing what was to come and Estel left after seeing how CCP doesn't care about us as players. Still others fell trying to make a point in the protest/riots, pushing for the truth or by providing us information about what was going on. We have not seen the last of those who we shall lose nor will we know all their names such is the life of a pod pilot.



Nuramori
Amarr
Drama Llamas
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:55:00 - [132]
 

Edited by: Nuramori on 28/06/2011 03:55:59
Since you're headed there, I think the mindset should be less of negotiations, and more of braintrust, with the goal of working for a common good. CCP wants to be financially sound, and the user base wants CCP to be financially sound, or we lose the game. We lose development and improvement. CCP needs us, we need them. Mutual goals, mutual needs.

After all the words that have flown by, and all the actions that have taken place, the results of a working session that results in everyone being happy would be a fantastic PR move. It would SHOW the rest of the industry that there is no one side that needs to win, that it's a synergistic relationship that needs to be fostered. We're not a blind golden goose.

I say CCP needs a supplemental income stream. After some thought I'm ok with MT, as LONG AS IT'S VANITY ONLY. even the EA presentation notes that the most effective conversion approach was the peacock" group. This is a fair and reasonable compromise for them and the Eve community. They can count on MT, we can get alliance/corp logo'd ships, pink shirts, and CCP gets a nice income stream from the alpha types that dominate Eve.

CCP needs to tier the vanity items. More costly items are permanent, less costly ones are disposable/consumable. If having a logo slapped on a ship is cheap enough, then you're sure to see entire alliance fleets of branded ships flying, and at a low isk/aurum cost, they will re-buy it for every ship they lose. Hell, an alliance may make it mandatory to label your ship. For a higher tier item, you keep it regardless of your loss, like a monocle, banana sock in your pants, or a hook on your hand. What have you. If Captains quarters represents the first step to abulation, then the peacock approach will only generate more demand for vanity items.

Increase subscription rates. Doesn't have to be a lot, a few bucks, and perhaps tier it. If you commit for a year, it's less (as it is now) but for the other tiers and less commitment, make the "penalty" greater. If people want eve but don't want Play2Win, then they surely can stomach a few bucks more. I don't even think Eve's rates have changed with inflation. People talk about "donating to help ccp", if they are good on that claim, then take an increase to the subscription.

IF there can't be some compromise to non-vanity MT, then I think the best accommodation is to make new/T2/ALL bpo's be bought strictly thru Aurum. This will keep the manufacturing as a player creation, and allow for in game sales of items. I agree that magical supply of anything in game is wrong, but if it has to happen, let it be the BPO so that the item still has to rely on the game economics for actual implementation. Maybe this is where CCP compromises and ALL T2 BPOS currently held become HIGH run copies, and they reset the T2 BPO market be allowing it to be accessible to all players wanting to get into the market.

If they need more ISK sink, the they need to capitulate on say hi sec moon mining. That would create a new group of pvp, as wardecs would increase, and total, botting carebears would now have to look out. There are acutally R32 and R64 moons in high sec. Let the output be an order of magnitude less than null, but allow those that want to try moon mining to have the opportunity, and give high sec citizens a new concern to challenge their lazy life. Imagine the pos bashing and wardecs that would liven all areas if this were to happen, and all the isk that would start sinking out.


Ok, so there are some thoughts, got more, but that's it for now. Good luck White Tree.

Falbala
Gallente
Ishtar's Destiny
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:00:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: Yana Steel
CCP could end this drama in seconds if they wanted to. There's a bloody list of questions that need their answers on the forums, made by players.


I am absolutely certain that CCP's only desire for a meeting with the CSM is to bide time and have a players face on their damage control team.

I'd actually love to be proven wrong, really.


My 2 isk on this is they are deploying the next step to Incarna and show off improvements before the meeting. Now I can be wrong, the next step might worsen things but I don't think so.

SuZiE DeMaRcHi
Caldari
Working For The Enemy Federation
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:03:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: RougeOperator
Edited by: RougeOperator on 28/06/2011 03:44:33
Originally by: buck herrick
Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Atlentia
Let's see what comes out of the meeting first, then pat ourselves on the back. I think the customers have spoken as to what has been bothering us for a long time, but my guess is none of those issues that have been sticking us in the side for so long will be addressed.


Just asking for a pause until we can get OUR heads round it and try to hammer out solutions.


QFT.

give the forums a rest, please.....my eyes are burning from trying to keep up :)

good luck WT (and all the others - except mittens who doesnt need any luck as he is obviously god already) - dont let us down.


No CCP needs to be reminded every other post that we are not going to go away.

Stop trying to help it blow over.


+1 Rouge
All white tree is doing is allowing CCP time to try and sweep this crap under the rug and then hope it blows over

tsk tsk tsk white tree ugh

Killmeded
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:03:00 - [135]
 

I play this game because I like it. I love the player driven markets, the player invlovement on virtually every level of the game. The way this NEX market seems almost ducktaped on but I find that analogy a bit insulting to my matari brethren. NEX does not "feel" like eve. There is no invention, no construction, no mining, no research, no development, no interaction. Make the items be blueprints or something . . .

ON top of ALL of this there is NO LOSS!

If you are wearing something it must DIE WITH THE POD.
If you buy furniture for your CQ it must be moveable so that u then can be GANKED.
If you buy paint for your ship it is DESTROYED with the ship.

ALL NEX ITEMS MUST BE DESTORYABLE!

This is EVE and the FACT that you can LOSE it is one of the GREATEST things in the game.

Kirkland Langue
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:04:00 - [136]
 

I'm expecting a back-peddling of MT or laying out a major structural change to EVE (such as an overhaul of the Corp mechanics, SOV mechanics), or something really surprising to come out of this CSM meeting. Some crap like "as consolation to the players, we lower the cost of items in the NEX" isn't going to impress me.

SuZiE DeMaRcHi
Caldari
Working For The Enemy Federation
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:05:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Killmeded
I play this game because I like it. I love the player driven markets, the player invlovement on virtually every level of the game. The way this NEX market seems almost ducktaped on but I find that analogy a bit insulting to my matari brethren. NEX does not "feel" like eve. There is no invention, no construction, no mining, no research, no development, no interaction. Make the items be blueprints or something . . .

ON top of ALL of this there is NO LOSS!

If you are wearing something it must DIE WITH THE POD.
If you buy furniture for your CQ it must be moveable so that u then can be GANKED.
If you buy paint for your ship it is DESTROYED with the ship.

ALL NEX ITEMS MUST BE DESTORYABLE!

This is EVE and the FACT that you can LOSE it is one of the GREATEST things in the game.


+ 1

Fiire Watch
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:06:00 - [138]
 

Its a start.

Markarian Aurelius
Caldari
Bureau of Interstellar Exploration
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:07:00 - [139]
 

I wish you best of luck to you and the rest of the CSM on your meeting with CCP. Anger and bitterness aside, I don't believe that this community is a completely inflexible one. There are ways to get us to spend, so long as they pick the *right* ways that work for our community as a whole and benefit the game.

However, I'm not going to resub all of my accounts until I hear back a favorable report and get to read the minutes of the meeting. CCP has to earn back my trust, just as they have to do the same for that of the CSM's.

SuZiE DeMaRcHi
Caldari
Working For The Enemy Federation
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:08:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Fiire Watch
Its a start.


Are you sure about that.
The way things are heading it sounds to me to be the end.

Ispai Ponue
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:10:00 - [141]
 

Conflict of interest and politics are synonymous, and everyone understands the cozy collaborations that politicians forge to preserve their own power at the expense of the common welfare. It's harder to see that exactly the same process affects judges, scientists, and physicians, professionals who pride themselves on their ability to be intellectually independent for the sake of justice, scientific advancement, or public health. These are professionals whose training and culture promote the core value of impartiality, so most become indignant at the mere suggestion that financial or personal interests could contaminate their work. Their professional pride makes them see themselves as being above such matters. No doubt, some are; just as, at the other extreme, some judges and scientists are flat-out dishonest.... In between the extremes of rare integrity and blatant dishonesty are the great majority who, being human, have all the blind spots the rest of us have. Unfortunately they are also more likely to think they don't, which makes them even more vulnerable to being hooked.

...

Were the travelers aware of the power of reciprocity to affect their behavior? Not at all. But once reciprocity kicks in, self-justification will follow... "It's only a pizza, " the medical resident says. ... Once you take the gift, no matter how small, the process starts. You will feel the urge to give something back, even if it's only, at first, your attention, your willingness to listen. Eventually, you will become more willing to give your prescription, your ruling, your vote. Your behavior changes, but, thanks to blind spots and self-justification, your view of your intellectual and professional integrity remains the same.

-- Mistakes were made, but not by me.

As you accept the gift of a trip to Iceland, the drinks, the dinners, etc... Keep in mind that you also are human, and can be played like a fiddle.

Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:12:00 - [142]
 

meeting with CSM is a PR move to give them more time. nothing more, nothing less. hoping is nice, but i doubt anything will come of this. they KNOW what the community wants, they know what OUR priorities are from last year's meeting.

xxxTRUSTxxx
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:13:00 - [143]
 

Tree, this is indeed a crossroad, i've loved this game and the community, i stand by and await good news.
if good news does not arrive, i stand by and weep for what was once an amazing game.

Violine Ming
Gallente
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:13:00 - [144]
 

On one level I applaud the optimism and wish you luck White Tree. On another, I feel you are in for disappointment unless you can write a really large check.

I don't hate CCP. I think many individuals at CCP have good intentions. I also think many players went over the top in this whole escapade, as did CCP in their ****-poor handling of the aftermath. Unfortunately they brought this on themselves.

I believe CCP has their backs to a wall. They have overextended themselves building two new games utilizing the success of their flagship... and now they are broke. Their untennable financial situation has left them with few options, and they are picking the one they think has the best chance of survival, and ultimately they WILL do what they think is best for their business. I believe they are convinced that pay-to-win is that "best option", and nothing we (or the CSM) say or do will alter that decision. What is left is the details of how to communicate "the plan" with their playerbase in a way that does the least damage.

With that said, I hope I'm wrong. I'm not going to rage; I'm not going to threaten; I'm not going to scream. I am just going to state how pay-to-win will affect my personal relationship with CCP: The second P2W is implemented, I will unsub both of my accounts. Not a threat, just a fact. Again, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't believe I am. I won't go away screaming in anger -I will go away wishing this story had a better ending.

Bob Nibblepibbley
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:14:00 - [145]
 

Edited by: Bob Nibblepibbley on 28/06/2011 04:14:01
I want to hear from CCP that there will never be any game affecting items sold through MT. This includes things such as faction standing, etc. It must only be for overpriced vanity bull****.

I also want to hear from them that the recent fskups they made with 0.0, such as the changes in rat locations will be reversed.

Maybe then I will resub my 4 accounts. Yes. I am a bittervet.

Draahk Chimera
Interstellar eXodus
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:14:00 - [146]
 

I was going to evemail this to Seleene but you kind of volonteered there Tree. I have thought up a list of issues that I figured you, the CSM, could bring to CCP this weekend. Oh, and just a disclaimer, I haven't fired a single salvo in this nuclear forum war. Just a concerned citizen watching and waiting until now.

1. We really, really need a gold-plated promise from CCP, prefably someone we still trust, like Oveur, that there will not be any game affecting items in the NeX. That includes, but are not limited to; free SP, extra neural remaps, faction standings, items that are not more powerful then current content but require no mineral input (ie a Aurum only Ishukone scorp as opposed to an Aurum + regular scorp trade), name changes, inplants and/or Dust-items (if Dust ever affect sov warfare).

2. If there are to be super-expensive status symbols in the NeX there need to be a cheap counterweight. $70 monokles are fine as long as there are plenty of $4 eye-patches or the like. This will also be positive for CCPs economy as 5*$70/month = $350/month while 5*$70+100*$4/month = $750/month.

3. Captains Quarters need to be optional and incentivized rather then forced. The agent finder is a great example of content that could be available only in CQ. It must be optional though, prefably with the old station enviroment put back in along with a Leave Ship button. We often get content that we feel are not directed at us, like the mining barges for pvpers, or the sov changes for miners. Never before though has content been forced on players in this manner.

4. We really need an explenation, however brief, what Hilmar means when he writes that there is no reason to listen to the community. CCP has always been known to listen to it's customers and fans. If the mail is indeed not a counterfit it is a major change in attitude from CCP when the company's ceo suddenly writes to his empoyees that the views of the community is irrelevant.

Remember, only CCP can prevent forum fires.

SuZiE DeMaRcHi
Caldari
Working For The Enemy Federation
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:15:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Ispai Ponue
Conflict of interest and politics are synonymous, and everyone understands the cozy collaborations that politicians forge to preserve their own power at the expense of the common welfare. It's harder to see that exactly the same process affects judges, scientists, and physicians, professionals who pride themselves on their ability to be intellectually independent for the sake of justice, scientific advancement, or public health. These are professionals whose training and culture promote the core value of impartiality, so most become indignant at the mere suggestion that financial or personal interests could contaminate their work. Their professional pride makes them see themselves as being above such matters. No doubt, some are; just as, at the other extreme, some judges and scientists are flat-out dishonest.... In between the extremes of rare integrity and blatant dishonesty are the great majority who, being human, have all the blind spots the rest of us have. Unfortunately they are also more likely to think they don't, which makes them even more vulnerable to being hooked.

...

Were the travelers aware of the power of reciprocity to affect their behavior? Not at all. But once reciprocity kicks in, self-justification will follow... "It's only a pizza, " the medical resident says. ... Once you take the gift, no matter how small, the process starts. You will feel the urge to give something back, even if it's only, at first, your attention, your willingness to listen. Eventually, you will become more willing to give your prescription, your ruling, your vote. Your behavior changes, but, thanks to blind spots and self-justification, your view of your intellectual and professional integrity remains the same.

-- Mistakes were made, but not by me.

As you accept the gift of a trip to Iceland, the drinks, the dinners, etc... Keep in mind that you also are human, and can be played like a fiddle.


Oh there being played oh man are they being played i can hear the fiddle from here Evil or Very Mad

Neom Disaki
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:15:00 - [148]
 

When you CSM are visiting with CCP, please stress the point that convenience and functionality are NOT vanity. Many of these types of services that I can think of off the top of my head that CCP may try to sell, would actually affect the game play.

For example:
Remaps, SP remaps/boosters, etc
Reduced jump clone cooldowns
Anything there is a skill for already
Ship fitting slots (added functionality)

Most F2P games that aren't Pay2Win, not only sell appearance items, but usually these conveniences, which encourage the developers to build in inconveniences as a standard. Personally, I feel the game play is already largely inconvenienced.

Christina Carter
Caldari
Northwest Passage
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:16:00 - [149]
 

Edited by: Christina Carter on 28/06/2011 04:16:30
Personally I feel that the "meeting" should be broadcasted/recorded like they did with AC9. They certainly have the tech to do it. A special forum (topic) put in place so that we, the players, can ask questions or add our input in real time.

I think it is time for CCP to step up and answer to the true investors of Eve, us, the players.

Power to the Players!
Eve Forever!

CC

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.06.28 04:19:00 - [150]
 

A damn fine post White Tree, and I wish CSM very well at their meeting with CCP. Despite being one of the more vocal protesters, I do still hold out a slim hope that Eve will once again become a game I can enjoy, if no longer love as I once did.

That said I will still be taking a break from Eve once my current 44 days run down. I feel I must do so, or not only will I seem a hypocrite to my friends and fellow Eve players (given my stated intentions in numerous posts and in-game), but CCP will not properly understand my outrage over Incarna (and all it represents), MT and CCP's treatment of their customers. Hilmar said it himself that CCP should ignore what us players say, and only take notice of our actions. So I must take clear and unambiguous action against CCP.

Now on a more positive note, my holiday from Eve need not be permanent. It's length will be determined by how much fun I have with other games and RL activities for a change, and how persuasive CCP is in returning Eve to it's former glory as an Internet Spaceships game first and foremost, with at worst limited MT items that are strictly vanity only (and a solem promise never to waver from that).

Good luck CSM! :-)


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