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Posted - 2011.06.28 02:55:00 - [91]

Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Carli Zandrya

I'm very proud of this community and what has been done.

Yeah, as I said before I was really impressed with the reaction.

Opportunistic, because that was certainly not how you sounded at the start of this whole thing.

I hope this will turn out for the best, but certainly not for you to support any opinion of players, because you have shown how easily your own changes.

Novak Sarin
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:57:00 - [92]

I respect the work of the CSM, I think it's one of the many aspects that makes EVE unique. But in this specific situation I'm very dissapointed that CCP's intention is to buy time and once again diverge the attention of the players.

I don't see CCP as an "enemy", after all this is still a videogame, but I'm worried that they way you express yourself about CCP borders into loyalty. Please remember that it was CCP who incited this rage with their offensive and unprofessional way of handling the critiques. I'm not saying you should be offensive in return, but please be... (you're gonna love this) FEARLESS!

No matter what the CCP's intentions are for this meeting, you have the power to make a difference. Let your voice be heard! Demand transparency and clarity towards the community!

Good luck.

Galen Brahe
Uncharted Chaos
Leather Rose Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:59:00 - [93]

Excellent. Very respectful of White Tree to entertain CCP’s concerns and put forth the player agenda. I put some faith in the process that we might begin to see some of the changes in attitude from CCP management that seem so dearly needed. While we may put forth some hope in the form of the CSM, I would like to propose that we work also on a secondary strategy that does not involve DESUB. Personally, I think that the DeSub idea is a lose/lose situation and we need to be looking for a win/win situation that A) Increases our stake in the development of the product, (hint) B) Solves most of the cash flow issues that CCP seems to have created in a venture that may be only short term gain. (ie. the life of a console game)

GL White Tree

Liva Daril
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:59:00 - [94]

Originally by: Velvet Dream
Nothing new here, move on.
You donīt understand a thing.
ISK for gametime was with EVE practically from the beginning. Plex was necessary to fight the RMT sweatshops.
AURUM is solely about EVE becoming pay to win, Monocles or even golden Scorps arenīt the problem.
Itīs the lost trust that "Tribal Machariels" arenīt in the pipeline.

Yvan Ratamnim
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:01:00 - [95]

I agree with white tree, there needs to be a moritoriam on bulls*it in the forum atleast until a few days after the meeting

White Tree any word from CCP on the NDA during this meeting?

btw please see if you can get CCP management to do one of these

Melkath Bandrom
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:02:00 - [96]

No matter how much CSM and CCP talk at the table, the end result will only be that CCP WILL go on with MT because CCP is a business and no business can exist without posting profit GAINS each quarter.

As much as it makes me physically ILL to have to say this, CSM will accomplish nothing at the end of the day except accepting the lie smoothly whispered in their ears.

CCP see's a profit opportunity. It MUST take it even at the expense of losing 2-5% of it's "golden goose" accounts. P2W is an absolute CERTAINTY no matter how much CCP will say it's not. It may not happen now or in 3 months or 6 months... BUT It WILL happen. CCP's pursuit of greed has made it inevitable no matter how many BOV's leave!

I have seen devs talk of the past on how much they love the game, how much Hilmar loved the game and how EveOnline was such a work of love etc etc... Times change. There is no love by Hilmar and the team he chose to surround himself with. That love (if it ever truly existed) has only turned to greed.

One thing CSM and its supporters MUST understand is that while CCP may be willing to talk and listen, it ultimately is a business and has absolutely NO reason to allow CSM or the players to get in the way of profit. And it WON'T.

For every BOV Eve loses, it will gain 2 utterly new players who will use MT to purchase quicker skill learning implants, or purchase a 8y/o BOV toon then pay some more cash and buy a Gold <inert item name here> that NO player had to build or commit any industry work to create. It will be a CERTAINTY that Industry will go away simply because any Industrialist will not be able to stop CCP from taking the ISK from their pockets via MT.

Eve will then be played by a bunch of noob players who are at the TOP rank in skills and isk wealth simply because they have the $$$ to make themselves rich in game. (Yes I know this is already possible but it doesn't happen to the extent that the future will allow once P2W really gains hold)

This may not happen now but it WILL happen eventually simply because GREED and business profit DEMAND it. Thats the whole purpose of running a business. PROFIT! not love...

Arias Dren
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:04:00 - [97]

Hate to say it, but, NO NDA, or what's the ****ing point.

Kez Aumer
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:07:00 - [98]

Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
If you make a nuke out of pinball machine parts the Libyans will come after you in a van

My DeLorean is fueled and ready to go, so I should be perfectly safe.

Nox Aeterna
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:08:00 - [99]

Edited by: Nox Aeterna on 28/06/2011 03:09:27
Thank you for your voice of reason, White Tree. 100% agree with everything you said.

Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:08:00 - [100]

I have been watching many threads and pages and hardly playing the game these days. I am pleased how the Community raged and protested the Ideas.

Though Trolling post need to stop but everyone needs to keep an eye out on this and watch what happens with this. I hope CCP bring MT if it help but not to effect the game play at all. Other wise this a major mistake they make and ruin a game they been building.

The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:08:00 - [101]

Originally by: Nishachara



Zixie Draco
Tactical Knightmare
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:09:00 - [102]

Please don't forget to take your kitten to the conference!..Kittens work wonders. But you already know this Very HappyVery Happy

The Scope
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:10:00 - [103]

Guess we will see soon if your inspiring words will be in vein.

Skex Relbore
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:11:00 - [104]

Edited by: Skex Relbore on 28/06/2011 03:13:44
Originally by: Miryade Loon
CCP knows for months your position : No, except for purely cosmetic, cheap items. What did they do ? They didn't listen to you..
CCP knows that before posting a devblog, they should send it to you for advice. What did they do ? First devblog by Zulu was commented, yet they didn't listen...

Seeing that our rage wasn't decreasing like they had forsee it... They use the best PR they have, the CSM.
The second devblog was full of ****, yet the CSM managed to turn it into something more acceptable by us (At least CCP learns from their errors).

They are summoning you ? Why ? To delay, and to give the impression that they have understood us.

They try to calm things down using the CSM, and the worst of it is that we are buying it. Please : Don't be naive.

They had plenty of time to listen to us, to listen to our representative (the CSM), and yet, they didn't : You are part of the plan, as faire valoir.

No more trust in us.

Pre-supposing the outcome is not conducive to effective negotiations.

Yes they may just be trying to delay things, Doesn't change anything we give them a chance to make things right. NO skin off my nose my sub stays cancelled until they've satisfied me that they fully understand the magnitude of their error and have made some sort of conciliatory gesture in addition to a firm commitment to go no further with their cash shop.

Ideally I'd like to see the whole NEX scrapped. I think it's a mistake to put anything in a subscription based game behind a pay window.

Too White Tree,

Make sure they understand that what ever nonsense they've decided to believe from the MT proponents that their playerbase are not the ADHD kiddies playing Battlefield heros. This is not a Free to Play FPS this is a subscription based single shard persistent universe MMO where actions have consequences and that a cash shop is caustic to such a system.

Because what will happen is that over time more and more effort will be put into developing cash shop content rather than standard game content, why balance hybrids after all when some new shinny in the NEX store will generate revenue after all?

Next you see features released only to the cash shop rather than to the community at large.

Make them understand that they have to admit their error and own up to it.

CCP is not our enemy they are more like a good friend who's gotten himself hooked on ******* they have a problem and we want to help but we're not going to be a party to their self destruction.

No MT for concierge services no MT for performance enhancers of any kind no increased skill learning no instant faction no charging us to get back our ship fittings.

In fact I highly recommend suggesting to them as a sign of good faith the following.

Up the ship fitting storage to 1000 fits now it shouldn't be hard one quick code change.

Release the political prisoners. Helicity, Liang and other members of the community that were banned in the recent troubles. If the IRA could receive amnesty I see no reason that some people who did some stuff on an online game can't.

If revenue is really a problem then I suggest finding a different way to fill that whole. Perhaps try some sort of limited stock options, something like Plex for Dust shares. Hell you might have more than a few people willing to buy into the project a lot of our players actually have some money in real life after all and might be interested in getting in on a little of that action.

Basically stop treating us like marks in a con, the community really wants to be able to support CCP we really want the game to succeed. People put in massive amounts of real life effort into this game. See all the fan developed tools.

Capitalize on that resource don't monetize it.

Consider how much better it would be to have the energy manifested in the recent rebellion directed in support of CCPs goals rather than in opposition to them?

Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:11:00 - [105]

Edited by: Zagdul on 28/06/2011 03:13:02

Hello White Tree.

I have a few requests for the meeting:

Would you mind delivering to them that when they write their "retractions / corrections" that they need to do it in a manner that is not condescending, and in plain English.

No metaphors, no joking and keep it serious business. They need to be completely clear on the way they deliver their message and not just with this instance, but also going forward. There are some blogs we don't mind being comical or having some humor injected, however the arrogance they've had lately with how it seems they view their customers has become insulting. Especially with their responses on the forums.


If they decide that cash shops are the future of EVE, advise that by mimicking the F2P market with a subscription model in tact, they are in fact trying to have their cake and eat it too. They cannot use the model of "power ups" for EVE's model and retain a monthly fee. If they decide to go with the "isk to win/gold ammo/sp for aur" they need to drop the subscription and publically state they are going F2P.

If they want to make AUR profitiable. They need to focus on "casinos" within stations during the winter expansion. These casinos use AUR as the currency. If money is a problem for them, this will be their best source of income. Period. Look at any other gaming model on the market who uses a cash shop.

They need to realize that 1 aur cannot = $1. It needs to be cheap to use the cash shop and they should be trying to sell by volume, not by rarity.

Optional Patch
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:11:00 - [106]

We'll stand at Zeus's foot and in your name we'll roar so loud that Olympus will shake.

Rolling Eyes

Posted - 2011.06.28 03:16:00 - [107]

Thank you and good luck.

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:17:00 - [108]

Well, at least we know that one CSM member is completely useless and that this won't end well.

This CSM = Cindy Lou Who

CCP = The Grinch

Koba Kyogen
The Concordiat
Concordiat Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:19:00 - [109]

Originally by: FantomChaser
Originally by: Nishachara



so say we all

buck herrick
101st Space Marine Force
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:19:00 - [110]

Originally by: White Tree
Originally by: Atlentia
Let's see what comes out of the meeting first, then pat ourselves on the back. I think the customers have spoken as to what has been bothering us for a long time, but my guess is none of those issues that have been sticking us in the side for so long will be addressed.

Just asking for a pause until we can get OUR heads round it and try to hammer out solutions.


give the forums a rest, eyes are burning from trying to keep up :)

good luck WT (and all the others - except mittens who doesnt need any luck as he is obviously god already) - dont let us down.

MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:20:00 - [111]

this is a time where we should look less at what ccp says, and more at what they do.

Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:24:00 - [112]

I could not agree more, we as a community need to sit on our hands for the time being to see what comes out of this meeting. I will also add that it's about time some one came to the table with a resounding call to reason to stop all this "foolishness" (for lack of a better word).

Also white you mentioned ccp called an emergency meeting once before, do you know what that was for? and when it was?

Nyssa Litari
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:25:00 - [113]

Originally by: Holly Cleland
I will happilly return to my shippy and abandon the forum fight for CCP to care, should you secure 3 things for me:

Ship spinning.
A promise of only vanity items on NEX.
a big sea trout called Henry.

If you can secure these 3 items for me, I shall do as you request.

Tell her to make me a cambric shirt...
parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme...
without no seams nor needlework,
then she'll be a true love of mine.

Zuquar Bonaparte
New Dawn Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:25:00 - [114]

personally id like to thank you for making this post, its nice to hear from 1 of you.

sadly im not to optimistic about what will be the outcome of your trip, CCP seems to have there minds stuck on forcing there decisions apon us regardless of what we say or do, only reason your being calld up there is to try stall us as long as possible to keep the income flowing while they finish there other games so they can let eve die as we are to demanding for them to bother keep trying to saticfy us "ungratefull" customers.

I allso think its very sad that you as a CSM most likely will be used as an excuse to justify there actions.

only positive thing about all this is that the friends iv made in eve allrdy are playing WOT(most joined after last years, we wont do poop for 18 months incedent) as I, or as I going to convert to another game where we can be together again as a corp of friends from all over the world.(Perpetuum looks like it suits the purpose)

regards a player who has loved eve for 6 years of constantly playing and will be very sad to leave, which will happen if anything less than a complete withdrawel off all ideas about P2W ontop of subs is taken off the table for good.

Teddy Hess
United Space Marine Corp
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:29:00 - [115]

White Tree:

I appreciate your remarks and your efforts. However I am somewhat a skeptic in the validity of the opinions of the CSM when you are dealing with the real life issues related to a corporation and the market strategy for the product that corporation makes. We are all aware of the financial requirements. We are all aware that CCP has been robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I have no issue with the Microtransactions as long as they are limited to Vanity items - none of the community does. Heck if CCP wants an extra buck on that stuff then I say go for it. However where all of us are frustrated is the deflection to our primary question related to the game changing items, skills, standings etc. that we all understand CCP to want to move the NeX to. It was leaked in "black and white". There is no denial of this fact.

I hope for the sake of the game we all love that I am wrong but I believe there are hidden plans and agendas that even the CSM will not be privy to - why - you are not shareholders and are of no consequence to the corporation. As I have opined in another post. EVE is the intellectual property of CCP and therefore they have creative license to do with it what they will.

Those changes may result in a loss of customer base but again that over time will be replaced and EVE and CCP will survive. Is it right for the community of players that have supported the game and community - no. But what is right for business?

I do hope you have a positive meeting however I would request that you remove the rose colored glasses and communicate back to all of us the truth. I believe that is all anybody has requested from the beginning. We have recieved double speak and diversionary propaganda and frankly it is an insult to all of us. I still have maintained my accounts (I purchase by the year) and probably will maintain my accounts regardless of the decision because this game is enjoyment for me outside of my hectic work life and family life.

I just what to know what I am up against and if Microtransations are going to expand into in game advantages. Granted CCP said never to MT's about a year ago but it is the right of every corporation to change policy to increase profit. However if the writing is on the wall, and yes I can read it, I believe the CSM and CCP are in for a bumpy ride and a long plane trip back from Iceland.

Good Luck, Safe Travel and Gods Speed

Marcus Vorenius
Task Force 42
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:31:00 - [116]

Edited by: Marcus Vorenius on 28/06/2011 05:19:39
Originally by: White Tree

Just asking for a pause until we can get OUR heads round it and try to hammer out solutions.

It's too little too late - we need to see actions from CCP (e.g. roll-back Incarnage/temporarily disable CQ, close the Nex store etc.) before focusing on long-term strategy.

During this pause CCP will continue with guerrilla PR in Twitter and other social media and they will drag you back to the game one by one.

Actions and a statement from the CEO directly to the community as a minimum.

edit: reduced quote

Deadly Intent.
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:31:00 - [117]

Edited by: XIRUSPHERE on 28/06/2011 03:38:53
Don't forget the martyrs in this either, CCP double tapped some very passionate players through some pretty screwed interpretation of opinion when emotions were white hot for some of these people, dev and player alike.

And can you please at least reason with them that the players are willing to help CCP in an open and honest fashion if they can return the same and look after their flagship.

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:34:00 - [118]

Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
Don't forget the martyrs in this either, CCP double tapped some very passionate players through some pretty screwed interpretation of opinion when emotions were white hot for some of these people.

The 'martyrs' are people like Mynxee and Teadaze, not some jackasses who made real life threats or used violent imagery.

I haven't been shy about sharing my opinion in the least and the ONE thing I give CCP credit for is that they haven't muzzled me.

Starfall Achura
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:34:00 - [119]

Please read my post. I think this is what you need to be prepared to discuss in Iceland if you haven't been told already. Notice there is no rage only a (mostly) constructive conversation

I am fail wit making a link work on these forums so I will just leave the link to copy and paste. Sorry

p.s. how the hell do you make a working link? Mine keps coming up null

Malak Alraheem
Posted - 2011.06.28 03:36:00 - [120]

Edited by: Malak Alraheem on 28/06/2011 03:36:16
No I didn't read the whole thread:

What I want delivered as a message to CCP is this. Your last 'Patch' put our computers in to overload. The first thing I need to do when logging in my 'main' account is to make sure that I rotate the camera away from the 'television set' or I have to listen to my computer scream like a wounded banshee in heat. You need to make 'Incarana' and 'Walking in stations' OPTIONAL. If that means making a low-poly 'pod' when you dock fine. Right now my computer protests at my main account (only) being logged in.

Why on earth should I bother expending additional funds for the two 'alt' accounts I have when the client can put my quad-core computer on its knees while trying to handle a single account. I have friends that want to play Eve Online with liquid cooled computers that have disconnected when the temperatures sky rocked while LOGGING IN. You are, as it stands at best, going to only get 1/3rd the money you did from me last month until this issue is addressed. You can see my accounts from your side, please feel free to watch.

If you figure that you can do better with 'fresh players', please let me know rather than thinking you can drag me along with your propaganda. At the end of July, if nothing changes, I have little to no reason to continue playing this game with my main account, let alone my other two accounts. Multiple accounts are part of the 'way of eve' for many players. If you don't want that anymore, that is fine with me, but I'm taking my wallet with me when I go. You have a month to speak or I walk. I won't encourage others along this path, they can make up their own damn mind. Nobody here needs to be told what to do, they only need to follow what is best for them.

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