open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked CCP needs $ 8 Mil by October, else bankruptcy!
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6

Author Topic

Zombatar
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:35:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Zombatar on 28/06/2011 16:54:37
Edited by: Zombatar on 28/06/2011 00:35:17
Edited by: Zombatar on 27/06/2011 23:37:08
Quote:
But again, CCP had $11M in cash Jan 1 2011. They are burning about $8M a year and will have about $4M left by the time their $11.8M dollar loan is due October 28th.


This explains EVERYTHING. Start reading!

(see note 19, pg 31)

New ways to make money in EvE will help when doing negotiation with the banks for a new loan.

Thank you.

Ioana Cristea
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:36:00 - [2]
 

sources ????

ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
The Veerhouven Group
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:36:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: ACY GTMI on 27/06/2011 23:37:47
Are you suggesting that is our fault?

Edit: Forgot one of my favorite mottoes. "Never encourage failure."

Judge Christopher
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:41:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Zombatar
Edited by: Zombatar on 27/06/2011 23:37:08
Quote:
But again, CCP had $11M in cash Jan 1 2011. They are burning about $8M a year and will have about $4M left by the time their $11.8M dollar loan is due October 28th.


This explains EVERYTHING.

New ways to make money in EvE will help when doing negotiation with the banks for a new loan.

Thank you.


Oh i don't care. Eve better die pretty, than become ugly greedy !

Zombatar
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:46:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: ACY GTMI
Edited by: ACY GTMI on 27/06/2011 23:37:47
Are you suggesting that is our fault?

Edit: Forgot one of my favorite mottoes. "Never encourage failure."



I blame $ 20+ Mil spent on WoD and Dust... That is the issue. You can't have one game (EvE) pay 700 wages, finance 2 game developments then have money left to re-invest in EvE.

We are basically paying with our EVE sub for WoD and Dust, I could be ok with that, if EvE wouldn't suffer. This is not the case though.

EVE is being milked to the last drop. Why? Because CCP was TOO ambitious. Too much for EvE it seems...

alexreborn
Invicta.
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:46:00 - [6]
 

if CCP goes bankrupt at least some ****ty company like EA or Ubisoft or Blizzard might pick it up.

EA might be a *****, but at least they know how to sell the **** out of their titles. I predict turn around to profitablility in 3 months. Monocoles on every player, and SP for USD!!.


Righteous Deeds
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:50:00 - [7]
 

Even if untrue, rumors of bankruptcy will only put even more financial pressure on CCP. That is really unfortunate. The epic nature of the PR failure is one of the most fascinating parts of this whole thing.

Makes you wonder of they'd have leveled with the CSM at least, and taken their advice, if the players themselves could not have helped find a way to increase CCP profitability. (Not to imply that they in fact have a foot in the grave at this time.)

I Love Boobies
Amarr
All Hail Boobies
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:50:00 - [8]
 

I've already contributed my 2 cents. Wink

Mia Aires
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:50:00 - [9]
 

CCP got monocled!

Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:52:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Zombatar
Originally by: ACY GTMI
Edited by: ACY GTMI on 27/06/2011 23:37:47
Are you suggesting that is our fault?

Edit: Forgot one of my favorite mottoes. "Never encourage failure."



I blame $ 20+ Mil spent on WoD and Dust... That is the issue. You can't have one game (EvE) pay 700 wages, finance 2 game developments then have money left to re-invest in EvE.

We are basically paying with our EVE sub for WoD and Dust, I could be ok with that, if EvE wouldn't suffer. This is not the case though.

EVE is being milked to the last drop. Why? Because CCP was TOO ambitious. Too much for EvE it seems...

Takseen
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:53:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: alexreborn
if CCP goes bankrupt at least some ****ty company like EA or Ubisoft or Blizzard might pick it up.

EA might be a *****, but at least they know how to sell the **** out of their titles. I predict turn around to profitablility in 3 months. Monocoles on every player, and SP for USD!!.




Eve Online itself is perfectly profitable, they wouldn't need to change anything with it. Just can development of WoD. Blizzard are the masters of cancelling games with years of development work done, see Warcraft Adventures or Starcraft:Ghost.

Arias Dren
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:54:00 - [12]
 

LOVING how the CCP apologists and alts are staying FAR away from this topic right now. Speaks volumes.

Zombatar
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:57:00 - [13]
 

They can simply take a new loan, bigger this time, release DUST/WoD and then we are all happy, with extra monocles colours on the market in eve. Or they can fail like a noob.

Anyway, CCP is risking all on DUST/WoD AFAIK, eve would be fine alone, actually pretty damn profitable $ 5-10 mil a year.

If you don't risk u don't win. Well you do but not as much. :P

Shadow XII
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:58:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Arias Dren
LOVING how the CCP apologists and alts are staying FAR away from this topic right now. Speaks volumes.


You can't argue with cold hard fact, and the fact is CCP has dug themselves into a pit with their own over-ambitious bull****.

Trying to take the income from one game to maintain it and make two others? What the **** were they thinking?

Demure Guise
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:59:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Zombatar
Edited by: Zombatar on 27/06/2011 23:37:08
Quote:
But again, CCP had $11M in cash Jan 1 2011. They are burning about $8M a year and will have about $4M left by the time their $11.8M dollar loan is due October 28th.


This explains EVERYTHING.

New ways to make money in EvE will help when doing negotiation with the banks for a new loan.

Thank you.


"UNGRATEFUL BAZTARDZ - BUY MOAR MONOCLES!"

diaufop
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:00:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Arias Dren
LOVING how the CCP apologists and alts are staying FAR away from this topic right now. Speaks volumes.

They already tried in the numerous other threads on this topic. They'll get around to this one soon.


Josefine Etrange
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:08:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Zombatar
Edited by: Zombatar on 27/06/2011 23:37:08
Quote:
But again, CCP had $11M in cash Jan 1 2011. They are burning about $8M a year and will have about $4M left by the time their $11.8M dollar loan is due October 28th.


This explains EVERYTHING.

New ways to make money in EvE will help when doing negotiation with the banks for a new loan.

Thank you.


Yes, it really explains a lot. Lets hope for ccp and for dust and for WoD and most important: Lets hope for eve.

Looks pretty grim: http://failheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2522

Zombatar
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:11:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Josefine Etrange
Originally by: Zombatar
Edited by: Zombatar on 27/06/2011 23:37:08
Quote:
But again, CCP had $11M in cash Jan 1 2011. They are burning about $8M a year and will have about $4M left by the time their $11.8M dollar loan is due October 28th.


This explains EVERYTHING.

New ways to make money in EvE will help when doing negotiation with the banks for a new loan.

Thank you.


Yes, it really explains a lot. Lets hope for ccp and for dust and for WoD and most important: Lets hope for eve.

Looks pretty grim: http://failheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2522


Check this quote just before they released the balance on the forum. Guess the guy was right even before we read it.

Quote:
Well, they are not broke today that is for sure. I don't know the structure of their debt though, so it is possible that they are looking at a massive bill down the road & ****ing their pants. That seems unlikely though.

Indy Rider
Amarr
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:12:00 - [19]
 

Its 800k, not 8 million.

EVE is still profitable, the problem is that WoD and Dust dev costs are going through the roof at the moment.

The problem is, CCP have a loan of 12 million due in October they have to pay, of which they have 11.2. Once they pay that back they have no cash. Thats the problem, not bankruptcy.

It also explains the 18 months of nothing, it was to cut costs. And as to why Incarna was rushed and buggy, get new subs along side MT so they can pay this loan back.

Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:16:00 - [20]
 

Considering Sony is rumored to be paying them back for the development costs of Dust due to it being a playstation digital download exclusive?

A rumor from a source I trust implicitly, but don't expect you to. But hey, if it does come around, how much bank does that make?

7Boy Curry
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:21:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Considering Sony is rumored to be paying them back for the development costs of Dust due to it being a playstation digital download exclusive?

A rumor from a source I trust implicitly, but don't expect you to. But hey, if it does come around, how much bank does that make?


Considering they haven't even got Dust up and running yet, and we all know how careful CCP is in deploying code...
Now multiply the last couple bugfixes x 2 when it launches, plus interaction issues....
I'm thinking it won't be making money soon, since it's free, and people aren't going to buy toys if the platform isn't stable....
Sony buyout coming by default?

Tugrath Akers
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:22:00 - [22]
 

The pants! We must sell them!

fdfsadgfasdgvasdfasdfasd Uanid
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:23:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Zombatar
They can simply take a new loan, bigger this time, release DUST/WoD and then we are all happy, with extra monocles colours on the market in eve. Or they can fail like a noob.

Anyway, CCP is risking all on DUST/WoD AFAIK, eve would be fine alone, actually pretty damn profitable $ 5-10 mil a year.

If you don't risk u don't win. Well you do but not as much. :P


Why would a bank give a company another loan when they can't pay off their current one?

Would a bank give a loan to someone on the dull?

Zombatar
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:24:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Zombatar on 28/06/2011 00:27:57
Edited by: Zombatar on 28/06/2011 00:26:22
Originally by: Indy Rider
Its 800k, not 8 million.

EVE is still profitable, the problem is that WoD and Dust dev costs are going through the roof at the moment.

The problem is, CCP have a loan of 12 million due in October they have to pay, of which they have 11.2. Once they pay that back they have no cash. Thats the problem, not bankruptcy.

It also explains the 18 months of nothing, it was to cut costs. And as to why Incarna was rushed and buggy, get new subs along side MT so they can pay this loan back.


False.

They had $ 11.223.672 cash at 31 Dec 2010.
They spend about $ 8 Mil cash/year.
By October 2011 they have to bring an extra 12 mil out of nowhere to pay the loan.

You do the math.

Originally by: fdfsadgfasdgvasdfasdfasd Uanid
Originally by: Zombatar
They can simply take a new loan, bigger this time, release DUST/WoD and then we are all happy, with extra monocles colours on the market in eve. Or they can fail like a noob.

Anyway, CCP is risking all on DUST/WoD AFAIK, eve would be fine alone, actually pretty damn profitable $ 5-10 mil a year.

If you don't risk u don't win. Well you do but not as much. :P


Why would a bank give a company another loan when they can't pay off their current one?

Would a bank give a loan to someone on the dull?


This happens all time mate. Banks give u cash, so at the end they take double back. And they will give CCP loans, u know why? Because CCP has assets worth $ 20+ Mil, so if they can't pay CCP defaults and the bank takes that and sells it.

Jada Maroo
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:26:00 - [25]
 

Only 117595 more monocles to go!

Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:26:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: 7Boy Curry
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Considering Sony is rumored to be paying them back for the development costs of Dust due to it being a playstation digital download exclusive?

A rumor from a source I trust implicitly, but don't expect you to. But hey, if it does come around, how much bank does that make?


Considering they haven't even got Dust up and running yet, and we all know how careful CCP is in deploying code...
Now multiply the last couple bugfixes x 2 when it launches, plus interaction issues....
I'm thinking it won't be making money soon, since it's free, and people aren't going to buy toys if the platform isn't stable....
Sony buyout coming by default?



Considering SOE brought over CCP's server techs to setup their recent upgrade and code structure, because despite the propaganda on these forums, our bugs are miniscule compared to every other MMO I've personally played?

It's all a matter of perspective. We have some of the most complex code of ANY massive-user access program, doing things that NO other game comes close to.

Will dust have issues. Heheheh ... I bet it does Twisted Evil

But the thing I feel is a no-brainer (arguable, for sure, but I've been around the industry for years) is that no other game development company at this time could come close to doing what Dust is supposed to do.


Tobiaz
Spacerats
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:26:00 - [27]
 

I'm no finance geek, but couldn't they just get another loan? Aside of the brilliant idea of trying to make two new games at once, CCP is making a decent profit right?

Don't know if that's the same over a few weeks though. Incarnage is going make the Summer of Rage look like a hiccup if CCP isn't going to work out things with the community.

Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:28:00 - [28]
 

Where are the sources here? Or is it just more baseless speculation?

On the other hand, who would want to hire an Icelandic economist? XD

TedStriker
The Scope
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:29:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: fdfsadgfasdgvasdfasdfasd Uanid

Why would a bank give a company another loan when they can't pay off their current one?

Would a bank give a loan to someone on the dull?


Because the loan includes interest? So, they did make the money, they just reinvested it. The problem here is "liquidity", not revenue or value.
They could pay back the loan, if they liquidate, but thats not in the companies interest, and not in the banks interest as well (bank wants more interest payments).

Refinancing is not the problem, just the conditions could be worse due to more risk and pressure, meaning they really need another loan to refinance and bank = greedy (ring a bell CCP?).

Thats all. Only if EVE would tank now (lot of subs losses) the outcome of Dust-investment would be endangered. WoD is still off for a long time.

Darth Helmat
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:29:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: fdfsadgfasdgvasdfasdfasd Uanid
Originally by: Zombatar
They can simply take a new loan, bigger this time, release DUST/WoD and then we are all happy, with extra monocles colours on the market in eve. Or they can fail like a noob.

Anyway, CCP is risking all on DUST/WoD AFAIK, eve would be fine alone, actually pretty damn profitable $ 5-10 mil a year.

If you don't risk u don't win. Well you do but not as much. :P


Why would a bank give a company another loan when they can't pay off their current one?

Would a bank give a loan to someone on the dull?


Hell yes. The problem is the terms get worse. Ultimately you are owned by your creditors, who don't give a rats ass about eve.


Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only