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Maverick2011
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:44:00 - [211]
 

Cancel WoD because another MMORPG in the market unless revolutionary is bound to fail. The MMORPG market is saturated. Maybe Dust will be profitable though.

But raising subscriptions??? When you guys come up with these ideas are you high or using drugs??? Why would someone pay more than the normal subscription fee for a game that offer less each year???

Specially with AAA games like StarWars, Guild Wars and Diablo 3 coming soon (and 2 of them will be FREE OF CHARGE).

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:46:00 - [212]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 27/06/2011 23:49:08

Originally by: Maverick2011
Cancel WoD because another MMORPG in the market unless revolutionary is bound to fail. The MMORPG market is saturated. Maybe Dust will be profitable though.

But raising subscriptions??? When you guys come up with these ideas are you high or using drugs??? Why would someone pay more than the normal subscription fee for a game that offer less each year???

Specially with AAA games like StarWars, Guild Wars and Diablo 3 coming soon (and 2 of them will be FREE OF CHARGE).


They would have considered all options.


RICH monole lovers are going to pay for CCP's greed. Enjoy those monocles richies, and your ships, skills, ammo etc .:)

Microtransactions are comming, and comming hard and fast. They have an agressive timetable. CSM cannot bail out the company. MT's are here to stay and agressive.

You can rule out Free to Play too.

Company/IP yardsale if it fails.

Investors might take a good offer if one comes up.

Takseen
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:46:00 - [213]
 

Originally by: Portmanteau
Originally by: Asmodeus Et'Mort
So one question to all you accounting boffins out there, Isnt plex a liability to the company that should be included in these figures? Havent CCP already been paid RL cash thats been accounted for in these figures but have yet to provide the service? So Im just asking if the value of plex in the game counts as an official accounting liability?

Does that make it better or worse? sorry im an historian i have no concept of figures other than dates!
I was wondering that altho I think we can safely say they aren't going to be liable for all that gametime at once.


Well there's $3.5m of "Deferred Income" from "unrecognized subscription fees" recorded as a current liability, perhaps those are the value of the unredeemed PLEX?

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:47:00 - [214]
 

I don't want to be sour or overly negative, but, at this point i don't care what CCP says!

I'm more interested in what they do & IMO they have done enough already.

Won't be coming back, they can never be trusted againNeutral



CCP Showing dedicated EvE players the DOOR since 06.21.11.


_

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:48:00 - [215]
 

Originally by: Takseen
Originally by: Portmanteau
Originally by: Asmodeus Et'Mort
So one question to all you accounting boffins out there, Isnt plex a liability to the company that should be included in these figures? Havent CCP already been paid RL cash thats been accounted for in these figures but have yet to provide the service? So Im just asking if the value of plex in the game counts as an official accounting liability?

Does that make it better or worse? sorry im an historian i have no concept of figures other than dates!
I was wondering that altho I think we can safely say they aren't going to be liable for all that gametime at once.


Well there's $3.5m of "Deferred Income" from "unrecognized subscription fees" recorded as a current liability, perhaps those are the value of the unredeemed PLEX?


Deferred income is also the long term unfullfilled subscriptions (and PLEX unconsumed) yes.


Shadow XII
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:49:00 - [216]
 

Bump.

This is critical information.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:50:00 - [217]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 27/06/2011 23:51:07



So, I guess I won't be getting that Titan then?


Ione Hawke
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:51:00 - [218]
 

Edited by: Ione Hawke on 27/06/2011 23:58:38
Originally by: Slymah
I would support a "donate" button over MT's


It is actually already there and called Aurum. At least, you could view it that way, without to much imagination and you get a monocle as token of appreciation. :)

In fact it doesn't matter a lot whether you buy NeX stuff from ISK -> PLEX -> Aurum or $$ -> PLEX -> Aurum I think. The first removes PLEX from the game. For which money is already paid and spend by CCP (so the pile of PLEX is actually a bad thing, because if players suddenly en-masse would stop their subscription and start using PLEX then CCP quickly has a problem, which is theoretically possible.). Also it creates demand => higher prices and this demand will increase supply of PLEX. Win for CCP.


Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:52:00 - [219]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 27/06/2011 23:55:14

Donate buttons? LOL keep smoking that crack pipe.

Waste of money, may aswell buy some monocles ya idiots.

Giving money to people that fecked you over and wont hesitate to do it again at any oppertunity lol

Wise up kids.


They issue bonds in the company for loans from creditors. If they want a loan from me, give me some bonds.

But CCP is like JUNK BONDS., Pure speculation at this point now lol

DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:55:00 - [220]
 

They will be fine on the 28th..

The time to worry will be when/if they start dumping staff..
If we get a release date for dust or see plugs for it on TV then the worry is off..
I think dust is also slated for spring 2012 and that would not be too bad, any delays and ccp could get hurt by it.
So I say we give them till summer or fall 2012, they shouldnt go under before that, but never know ;P....

I still say they could dump staff, polish the turd, and shove stuff out the door as-is.. It's worked for EvE... But the FPS needs to be a good sell else ccp will have trouble.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:57:00 - [221]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 27/06/2011 23:59:32

Originally by: DeODokktor
They will be fine on the 28th..

The time to worry will be when/if they start dumping staff..
If we get a release date for dust or see plugs for it on TV then the worry is off..
I think dust is also slated for spring 2012 and that would not be too bad, any delays and ccp could get hurt by it.
So I say we give them till summer or fall 2012, they shouldnt go under before that, but never know ;P....

I still say they could dump staff, polish the turd, and shove stuff out the door as-is.. It's worked for EvE... But the FPS needs to be a good sell else ccp will have trouble.


Headcount freeze, anybody who leaves, they close that open headcount. happening now.

They will also be taking out more loans, and more bonds will be issued. They could go public but CCP would die on the open market. They would be shorted to hell and back with those financials.

WoD is overrunning, budget and time, it will continue to do so, the situation will get worse. Dust will probably not meet targets, again a bad situation.

CCP is too high risk of an investment with those current financial reports, if they had Microtranscations SUCCEEDING and A SUBSCRIBER base, that is a different set off books.

kestrael nanahara
Caldari
Wrecking Shots
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:01:00 - [222]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 27/06/2011 23:59:32

Originally by: DeODokktor
They will be fine on the 28th..

The time to worry will be when/if they start dumping staff..
If we get a release date for dust or see plugs for it on TV then the worry is off..
I think dust is also slated for spring 2012 and that would not be too bad, any delays and ccp could get hurt by it.
So I say we give them till summer or fall 2012, they shouldnt go under before that, but never know ;P....

I still say they could dump staff, polish the turd, and shove stuff out the door as-is.. It's worked for EvE... But the FPS needs to be a good sell else ccp will have trouble.


Headcount freeze, anybody who leaves, they close that open headcount. happening now.

They will also be taking out more loans, and more bonds will be issued. They could go public but CCP would die on the open market. They would be shorted to hell and back with those financials.

WoD is overrunning, budget and time, it will continue to do so, the situation will get worse. Dust will probably not meet targets, again a bad situation.

CCP is too high risk of an investment with those current financial reports, if they had Microtranscations SUCCEEDING and A SUBSCRIBER base, that is a different set off books.


To be fair they do have pretty good core income ccp will probably have some solvency issues but I dont think they will go bankrupt.

Ione Hawke
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:01:00 - [223]
 

Originally by: Miilla


WoD is overrunning, budget and time, it will continue to do so, the situation will get worse. Dust will probably not meet targets, again a bad situation.



Nothing new in the games business, thats when bugged products are released early and fail miserably. Next company dies with it.

Svizac Marmotov
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:02:00 - [224]
 

Well it seems that in worst case scenario at least they nailed the names for those 2 projects perfectly..

It's world of darkness and dust in their future.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:05:00 - [225]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 28/06/2011 00:06:38
You also forget there is a recession on, Iceland isnt exactly flowing in cash lol.

Getting loans is a harder business these days. Sure they got IP assets and profitability but that could change overnight, and is edging that way.

Creditors want to see revenues, they have to produce higher revenues. The only way they can feasibly do that now is MT all the way, with subs.

CCP are operating on a too thin cash liquidity

shoot me
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:06:00 - [226]
 

Edited by: shoot me on 28/06/2011 00:09:11
CCP have already made clear that they are not going to listen to their customers so why should we bail them out?

This is just more PR spin to quell the rage.

I don't see any point in saving Eve Online if it means ruining the game with micro transfers and game breaking non vanity items.

Elrica bloodbane
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:07:00 - [227]
 

newbish accounting question?.
If people began turning plex back into gtc's and selling outside of game.
How would that effect ccp. If at all ?

Vincentus
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:07:00 - [228]
 

Edited by: Vincentus on 28/06/2011 00:09:50
Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: Takseen
Originally by: Portmanteau
Originally by: Asmodeus Et'Mort
So one question to all you accounting boffins out there, Isnt plex a liability to the company that should be included in these figures? Havent CCP already been paid RL cash thats been accounted for in these figures but have yet to provide the service? So Im just asking if the value of plex in the game counts as an official accounting liability?

Does that make it better or worse? sorry im an historian i have no concept of figures other than dates!
I was wondering that altho I think we can safely say they aren't going to be liable for all that gametime at once.


Well there's $3.5m of "Deferred Income" from "unrecognized subscription fees" recorded as a current liability, perhaps those are the value of the unredeemed PLEX?


Deferred income is also the long term unfullfilled subscriptions (and PLEX unconsumed) yes.




Actually, I've been thinking a little bit about this since my earlier post in this thread about this being deferred income, but I don't think they have PLEX filed under deferred income after all. Better yet, I think they don't have it in the books at all. Look at it like this,they already provided the service that PLEX do in the real world. e.a. sell someone something they can then use in the game in whatever way they see fit :handsoff: and this is the only legal liability they have. Since CCP has 100% ownership and legal rights over the game, I don't think they need to book plexes as as liability since they can just delete them with a few mouseclicks and noone has the legal right to stop them. It has probably been booked under sales and end of story. I think only long term subscription with a CC or whatever are counted as deferred income. Could be wrong here, but it makes more sense from a legal point of view imo.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:08:00 - [229]
 

Originally by: Elrica bloodbane
newbish accounting question?.
If people began turning plex back into gtc's and selling outside of game.
How would that effect ccp. If at all ?



That would be the same as PLEX just outside the game in the form of GTC codes.

Yana Steel
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:10:00 - [230]
 

Oh my god, people saying 'hey lets donate money to CCP'. No matter how much I enjoy this game I'm not that stupid/desperate.

Don't be pathetic. Why would you want to encourage such continual failure. Just look at the last few 'Expansions' and the continued inability for CCP to actually fix any of the long term issues associated with the game.

Linar Mardolak
Minmatar
Phlogiston Absorption
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:12:00 - [231]
 

Originally by: Anna Maziarczyk
Originally by: Goauld Baal
In other words some one at CCP left the check book open and out on the table and now they want there player base to make up what there lacking HAHAHAH yeah thats not going to happen


no kidding.

Is EVE really Too Big to Fail? Maybe Iceland will do a Stimulus package to save their thriving MMORPG industry?

If countries can Bailout the Airlines and Auto Industry, why not Virtual worlds too. I mean, interweb spaceships are just as vital to national prosperity as say Jeans or Coke?


So...Iceland? You know, the bankrupt country?
This is who you are expecting to bail out CCP?

Ibram Sedingway
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:12:00 - [232]
 

Originally by: Yana Steel
Oh my god, people saying 'hey lets donate money to CCP'. No matter how much I enjoy this game I'm not that stupid/desperate.

Don't be pathetic. Why would you want to encourage such continual failure. Just look at the last few 'Expansions' and the continued inability for CCP to actually fix any of the long term issues associated with the game.

cognitive dissonnce, they dont want to lose their charachters

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:12:00 - [233]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 28/06/2011 00:13:59
Originally by: Vincentus


Actually, I've been thinking a little bit about this since my earlier post in this thread about this being deferred income, but I don't think they have PLEX filed under deferred income after all. Better yet, I think they don't have it in the books at all. Look at it like this,they already provided the service that PLEX do in the real world. e.a. sell someone something they can then use in the game in whatever way they see fit :handsoff: and this is the only legal liability they have. Since CCP has 100% ownership and legal rights over the game, I don't think they need to book plexes as as liability, it has probably been booked under sales and end of story. I think only long term subscription with a CC or whatever are counted as deferred income. Could be wrong here, but it makes more sense from a legal point of view imo.



Which is exactly what I said in prior troll threads before all this whoop hah when this raised its head. I said it was a sale of an INGAME Item, end of story.

I got trolled to high heaven by Akita T and others lol.




Elrica bloodbane
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:17:00 - [234]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: Elrica bloodbane
newbish accounting question?.
If people began turning plex back into gtc's and selling outside of game.
How would that effect ccp. If at all ?



That would be the same as PLEX just outside the game in the form of GTC codes.


Yeah I see that but I'm thinking of RMT's deciding eve is dying and converting all their isk to gtc's. Then dumping them on the net cheaply. thus robbing CCP of an income for lets say 2/3 mth's.

EnderCapitalG
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:18:00 - [235]
 

Originally by: Miilla
RICH monole lovers are going to pay for CCP's greed. Enjoy those monocles richies, and your ships, skills, ammo etc .:)


Anyone I know that has a monocle are those who used the massive backlog of PLEXes that are on the market (and being held by people). Those who are rich have already been buying PLEX, and it hasn't (really) caused a problem.

However, gold ammo etc will go quite the opposite way, I'd imagine.

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:18:00 - [236]
 

Edited by: Mr Kidd on 28/06/2011 00:19:13
Originally by: Vincentus

Actually, I've been thinking a little bit about this since my earlier post in this thread about this being deferred income, but I don't think they have PLEX filed under deferred income after all. Better yet, I think they don't have it in the books at all. Look at it like this,they already provided the service that PLEX do in the real world. e.a. sell someone something they can then use in the game in whatever way they see fit :handsoff: and this is the only legal liability they have. Since CCP has 100% ownership and legal rights over the game, I don't think they need to book plexes as as liability since they can just delete them with a few mouseclicks and noone has the legal right to stop them. It has probably been booked under sales and end of story. I think only long term subscription with a CC or whatever are counted as deferred income. Could be wrong here, but it makes more sense from a legal point of view imo.


I agree. I don't think plex is deferred income. I believe GTC is the deferment. When GTC is converted the deferment is ended. Plex is solely a game item that CCP "honors" as game time. However, Plex still has the effect of showing 0 income when it is redeemed for game time. I believe Plex has become a large and looming problem that if there were a flood of plex to magically appear on the market with people redeeming game time, it would probably sink the company ;)

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:20:00 - [237]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd
Originally by: Vincentus

Actually, I've been thinking a little bit about this since my earlier post in this thread about this being deferred income, but I don't think they have PLEX filed under deferred income after all. Better yet, I think they don't have it in the books at all. Look at it like this,they already provided the service that PLEX do in the real world. e.a. sell someone something they can then use in the game in whatever way they see fit :handsoff: and this is the only legal liability they have. Since CCP has 100% ownership and legal rights over the game, I don't think they need to book plexes as as liability since they can just delete them with a few mouseclicks and noone has the legal right to stop them. It has probably been booked under sales and end of story. I think only long term subscription with a CC or whatever are counted as deferred income. Could be wrong here, but it makes more sense from a legal point of view imo.


I agree. I don't think plex is deferred income. I believe GTC is the deferment. When GTC is converted the deferment is ended. Plex is solely a game item that CCP "honors" as game time. However, Plex still has the effect of showing 0 income when it is redeemed for game time. I believe Plex has become a large and looming problem that if there were a flood of plex to magically appear on the market with people redeeming game time, it would probably since the company ;)



PLEX is an ingame item, GTC is a purchase with promise to get game time.

Once a GTC is converted to a ingame item (or game time) it is no longer a liability, except the unfullfilled gametime which is a deferred income.

I said that in other threads i was in but oh no Akita T said adamintly it is a liability.

I got bashed from page to page over it lol.


Josefine Etrange
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:21:00 - [238]
 

Originally by: Xinxua
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh
Originally by: Lug Thorne
So really their short term financial future depends on keeping Eve going?
After jeopardizing it with WoD and Dust. That's how it looks to me.

Yes sticking to one product line and not expanding into new markets is the best way to expand your company.


No canibilizing your core buisness for massive expansion in all direction is the best way to expand your company!
(both directions often lead into doom, balance is the key, and sometimes luck and taking risks can make it too)

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:22:00 - [239]
 

Originally by: Josefine Etrange
Originally by: Xinxua
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh
Originally by: Lug Thorne
So really their short term financial future depends on keeping Eve going?
After jeopardizing it with WoD and Dust. That's how it looks to me.

Yes sticking to one product line and not expanding into new markets is the best way to expand your company.


No canibilizing your core buisness for massive expansion in all direction is the best way to expand your company!
(both directions often lead into doom, balance is the key, and sometimes luck and taking risks can make it too)


Actually, if you are in a company that is not break even or profitable (yet) and you have NO LOANS, you go out and buy a profitable company, and use that to fund your existing company /venture until it is past break even into profitability.

Once you start taking loans, you are handing over your business.


Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.06.28 00:24:00 - [240]
 

Originally by: Yarrrrrhh
A personal note to CCP: One way out of this mess would be to just be honest about all of this and let us buy those idiotic scorpion skins to solve your darn cash flow problem in the short term. Granted, the words 'Sorry, we ****ed up, please help us keep this sandbox alive. We'll do vanity items only, forever - ok?" would have to be spoken. Just my 2 cents.


That's:
a) sensible, and
b) honest

Neither of em seem to be part of Hilmars world. Unfortunately. Confused


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