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Posted - 2011.06.27 20:33:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Rikki Rokkit
Wha'chu talkin 'bout willis?

They have healthy cash reserves, good ratio's and decent CF's. I don't have the time to delve too deeply into this, because I should be working instead of reading forums Rolling Eyes but, in all honestly it doesn't look bad.

funny though that ISK = Icelandic Kronor.



they pretty much have the same conversion rate to us dollars to...

Medidranda Livoga
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:34:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Medidranda Livoga on 27/06/2011 20:33:59
Originally by: Piper Combs
If CCP were to promise to release Dust for the PC, I'd be willing to pre-order the game right now. I imagine there are probably a lot of other people who would too, which could add up to a significant amount of money.




They already made a deal with Sony and probably recieved some exclusivity money for it + free advertising. Not to mention that if it actually affected sov battles in EVE there would be a hacking galore going on all the time.

Bevil Smyth
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:36:00 - [63]
 

with best part of 10 years games industry experience myself ive seen what CCP are doing time and time again.

Developer has hit product.
Developer: OMFG MONEY!
Developer assumes growth of financial empire is constant
Developer spends money they have and assume they get to develop new games which cost too much to make
Developer realises they cant afford to develop said games which have now gone overbudget *surprise surprise* and still dont have anything released
Developer panics and then shortly later downsizes drastically, gets sold, closes shop or a combo of the above.

Ive seen it happen to devs and publishers and on many occasions. Its so sad that no one seems to learn from the same mistake that seems to happen over and over again.

Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:36:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: moneykeeper
Cry me a river. If CCP wanted my cash they should have made the game better instead of making a shop to sell pants. There are many better charities than a failing game making corporation.



Exactly. CCP needs to remember this. They are a business, and simply because they need to l2p doesn't mean we should put up with their crap.

Smart businesses make good use of existing products and grow them, expand them, and build upon them. All of these are based upon customers, and if they do something that drives off the customers then they are lost.

Maul555
Amarr
Reliables Inc
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:37:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Maul555 on 27/06/2011 20:37:41
If your listening CCP, just be honest with us. We love eve! I have been plexing recently but would be willing to re-sub if you guys really need it! I would even buy some stupid pants if you price it reasonably...

Speaker4 theDead
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:38:00 - [66]
 

Wow, this fits in perfectly with what's been going on.....
Now they can say "No we didn't have plans to sell to Sony, however we suddenly find ourselves short of cash, and have no choice."

An even better conspiracy theory would be they planned it all along, right down to the poor communication, leaked documents, etc, knowing that the ensuing uproar would hurt short term revenue, and put them in a position to be "Forced" to sell.

p.s. If Goon lawyers are involved, we're already screwed.



handige harrie
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:39:00 - [67]
 

Why all the doom and gloom?,

they spend money on projects, they did something with shares, they had 1.3M insurance on goods inventory and they shuffled around some cash-flow stuff in the cash-flow thingy,

at the end they still came out with a profit, less than previous year, but hey, they did dump a wad of cash in the development of 2 other games and Icelandic economy isn't known for it's booming period now...

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:41:00 - [68]
 

So we're supposed to help fund and beta test technology for games we mostly have no intention of playing? And in the process we get to have Eve screwed up by moneymaking efforts because CCP are too incompetent to manage their finances and grow at a sustainable rate?

Awesome...

Is there any news coming out that will make me want to reverse my unsub?

Cornelius Rost
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:41:00 - [69]
 

A lot of people in here saying they would donate. CCP is not a non-profit or a band on a startup website. Their paypal donate button equivalent is the monocles everyone is moaning about. Also, everyone continually stating "well if they had just been honest from the beginning and told us they were in money trouble" like CCP is your cash poor college kid, is just being ridiculous. They are a business. What is happening now was their business plan. It sounds like they are going to have some powwows and change that business plan, but the point is, what you are talking about is just not how it works.

Let them have their chat with the CSM at the turn of the month and see if they come up with anything that sounds promising. In the mean time, buy a monocle if you feel like contributing to the cause.

Langoss
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:44:00 - [70]
 

CCP will go bankrupt on October 28th if they cant sell 100000 monocles

Money for pants
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:44:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Yarrrrrhh
CCP is a profitable company but it looks like it is having some cash flow problems


If that's the case, CCP might be an easy prey for an industry giant...

Zeta Kalin
Large Rodent Hunters
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:45:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: handige harrie
Why all the doom and gloom?,

they spend money on projects, they did something with shares, they had 1.3M insurance on goods inventory and they shuffled around some cash-flow stuff in the cash-flow thingy,

at the end they still came out with a profit, less than previous year, but hey, they did dump a wad of cash in the development of 2 other games and Icelandic economy isn't known for it's booming period now...


The fact that they came up with a book profit won't change anything to the fact they'll be cashless comes October if they don't get a huge cash infusion by then, be it by a new investor round or borrowing again.

RC Denton
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:48:00 - [73]
 

This is also funny, because when they first mentioned Wod and Incarna there was an outcry about them spending EVE dev resources on these other games and features instead of Eve. And all the appologists said "WTF? They aren't shorting EVE to build these games". And now we see that 50% of their gross revenue seems to be going to supporting development of Dust and WOD. Nice!

They should fix and expand EVE and make it even grander and cooler. Gaining new subscriptions through awesomeness would be the A answer to increasing their revenue. Not pants on head ram the strap-on down your throat MT stuff.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:50:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Xinxua
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh
Originally by: Lug Thorne
So really their short term financial future depends on keeping Eve going?
After jeopardizing it with WoD and Dust. That's how it looks to me.

Yes sticking to one product line and not expanding into new markets is the best way to expand your company.


The old idea you have to expand at a certain rate to validate your self worth? LOL. What a load of horsesh!t. Eve has been expanding slow and steady on it's own just fine, and has been profitable (after a rocky start - not uncommon to new MMOs) for years. CCP should have been happy with that modest expansion, and not started plowing all that profit into other uncertain projects. They certainly should not have started taking out massive loans to fund new projects, when they were once already profitable and the economic situation worldwide isn't good.

I'm sorry, but I've zero sympathy for CCP - they got themselves into this mess. Why should we have to bail them out by having our game [email protected]#$ed up?

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:52:00 - [75]
 

I just bought a 70 dollar monocle, so their new features definatly seem to be selling ^_^

now what to do with my leftover 2k aur...

Markus Jome
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:53:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Markus Jome on 27/06/2011 20:55:40
Originally by: RC Denton
This is also funny, because when they first mentioned Wod and Incarna there was an outcry about them spending EVE dev resources on these other games and features instead of Eve. And all the appologists said "WTF? They aren't shorting EVE to build these games". And now we see that 50% of their gross revenue seems to be going to supporting development of Dust and WOD. Nice!

They should fix and expand EVE and make it even grander and cooler. Gaining new subscriptions through awesomeness would be the A answer to increasing their revenue. Not pants on head ram the strap-on down your throat MT stuff.


Actually, given that they are developing 2 new games from scratch, they have any right to spend even more of their money for these 2 new products. EvE is simply the firstborn child that hast to get used to mum and dad caring for 2 newborns. But the point is that whateveer reason CCP might have to introduce pay to win, lack of money would be no reason, as they have plenty of profit.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:54:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Deja Blue
Edited by: Deja Blue on 27/06/2011 19:35:13
CCP suffers from **** poor management. As in , there is no management, there is no vision, there is no direction. Their employees do not even know what their job is, they have to figure it out by trial and error because they do not even have a proper human resources department. On and on. They think that organizing makes them more corporate and they want to keep the naive you party atmosphere, but they really just frustrate their own workforce.

I am surprised they even have an annual report as it is pretty corporate to show such organization and a report?!

All in all CCP is just a mom and pop shop that made it so far.

BUT, THIS is why it takes them 5 years to make ONE room for us to ambulate in and why they are having financial problems.


Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines...

What CCP employees think of CCP: http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/CCP-Games-Reviews-E159347.htm - it's damning stuff.

Joey, have you ever been in a... in a Turkish prison?

Saving Face
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:56:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Markus Jome
But the point is that whateveer reason CCP might have to introduce pay to win, lack of money would be no reason, as they have plenty of profit.


/facepalm

They are bleeding $8 mil a year and turning a paper profit because of the huge amount of capitalized expenses (dev cost for products that don't generate income right away => asset on the balance sheet).

Nuramori
Amarr
Drama Llamas
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:58:00 - [79]
 

Running my own company, I found the info very interesting indeed.

The internal leak is becoming both interesting and concerning, as I'm sure CCP is going to be hurt at some point with all the information getting out without it being put in context.

I am a bit surprised DUST was dissolved and merged into CCP UK. Not sure why they absorbed that onto the books and didn't isolate it in case it fails. A large burden on the main company.

After looking at this I can see their difficult position. Personally I would raise the sub rate and take advantage of both the passion of the user base as well as the hatred for MT that's evident. That way its a predictable rise in revenue.

I'd even buy into some shares ;)

Markus Jome
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:59:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Saving Face
Originally by: Markus Jome
But the point is that whateveer reason CCP might have to introduce pay to win, lack of money would be no reason, as they have plenty of profit.


/facepalm

They are bleeding $8 mil a year and turning a paper profit because of the huge amount of capitalized expenses (dev cost for products that don't generate income right away => asset on the balance sheet).


Ok, then i missed this, sorry

Portmanteau
Gallente
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:00:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Maul555
Edited by: Maul555 on 27/06/2011 20:37:41
If your listening CCP, just be honest with us. We love eve! I have been plexing recently but would be willing to re-sub if you guys really need it! I would even buy some stupid pants if you price it reasonably...



plexing or subbing makes no difference whatsoever to CCP' revenue

Care Bear King
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:03:00 - [82]
 

Kill Aurum/Nex or kill EvE.
Raise the monthly sub fee if need be.

I will *not* fund CCP's other projects if they're
going to **** in our sandbox as well.
I'd rather watch it all burn.

Zeta Kalin
Large Rodent Hunters
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:03:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Nuramori
Running my own company, I found the info very interesting indeed.

The internal leak is becoming both interesting and concerning, as I'm sure CCP is going to be hurt at some point with all the information getting out without it being put in context.



Regarding the annual report it's not a leak, it was filled with the appropriate authority, from then it was just a matter of someone being curious. But the fact that CCP wasn't forthcoming with it making it downloadable from their website is very telling too.

Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:07:00 - [84]
 

Whoever leaked this. Eve community salutes you, sir !


Markus Jome
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:07:00 - [85]
 

I wonder if Blizzard or EA are publishing their finances on their side.

Xeln Quuzg
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:09:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Yarrrrrhh
TL;DR
Dust and WoD are burning too much cash and therefore CCP needs to at least show that MT can work in EVE so they can get their hands on fresh cash from loans/equity deals. Ideally yesterday.



that is consistent with the comments of one former ccp employee: "Several years now CCP has predicated insane subscriber goals that cannot be met. Naturally this is met with scepticism by the employees but it falls on deaf ears. The result is that the company is suffering because we cannot sustain the development of EVE, DUST and WOD. EVE is not creating enough revenue which means that solutions are sought, solutions that CCP was vehemently against a few years ago."

coolzero
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:09:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Zhula Guixgrixks
Whoever leaked this. Eve community salutes you, sir !



its most likely not a leak...

most company's are made by law to show the books, seems like its the same for iceland.

Valentina Valentia
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:11:00 - [88]
 

I am not playing to pay for THIS.

CCP needs to real in it's expenses and live within it's means and cut off anything that isn't profitable [JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE] - the days of pie in the sky free money are gone, get with the times. People are cutting back and value better better be there or it's not happening. MT's are NOT the way to go, what is is cut these dead projects to a minimum, toss the WW people out the door to go find another cash cow for this LARP crap, and get back to CORE - EVE ONLINE. If they do that then life will be good again... I have seen WW in action, and personally I was less than impressed, it seemed a group with no direction, who just want to piddle around and never turn out anything. Drop them and that building and put CCP Iceland back to EVE!

Saving Face
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:16:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: coolzero
its most likely not a leak...



No it's no leak. If you live in Iceland you can get a copy for a small fee. Someone on FHC actually was about to do that when someone else piped up that he already had it.

Silas Cooper
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:16:00 - [90]
 

It's not like this was unexpected. Two new projects, massive company growth, failing economy (amplified by it being in an isolated country) and stubborn/eccentric leadership means they have to dig really, really deep. Mind you; any new project you start as a game developer means you put yourself at risk, that's just "normal practise".

Real problem is that EVE is used both as "collateral" and cash cow while at the same time siphoning resources away from that product in order to make the other two happen. All it needed was a little nudge, something small to interfere and you end up in deep trouble. That thing that happened wasn't little, the economy crisis hits hard everywhere and makes for reluctant investors.

Still, the main issue is taking on TWO new projects. That's just dumb.


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