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Rikki Rokkit
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:47:00 - [31]
 

Wha'chu talkin 'bout willis?

They have healthy cash reserves, good ratio's and decent CF's. I don't have the time to delve too deeply into this, because I should be working instead of reading forums Rolling Eyes but, in all honestly it doesn't look bad.

funny though that ISK = Icelandic Kronor.

Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:49:00 - [32]
 

To be honest, I'd pay a higher monthly fee if it meant keeping this game afloat, and especially if it meant we wouldn't have to deal with pay to win items being sold for PLEX.

Aphoxema G
PONIES EVERWHERE
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:50:00 - [33]
 

I have difficulty believing this, especially with the massive upgrades they were apparently able to afford recently.

But I am in agreement with the OP, if CCP needs to make more money to survive then they really should have just raised subscription fees. Just one USD or EUR a month wouldn't be substantial for the players but it's a definite boost to revenue.

And that's party an indication itself that CCP isn't in financial woes; the first thing they would have done if they had an ounce of sense would be to raise prices slightly as needed.

In the case that this is true, I just hope they don't become publicly owned... their lack of disclosure already is bad enough, but once the players are the shareholders they'll no longer benefit from being honest at all.

Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:51:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Alice Katsuko
To be honest, I'd pay a higher monthly fee if it meant keeping this game afloat, and especially if it meant we wouldn't have to deal with pay to win items being sold for PLEX.


They'll do the higher fees. Wait for the rage to die down, and then quietly start reintroducing pay to win.

Fixation
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:51:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Boaz Hedion Merkava


So, 360.000 subscribers and increasing...


Not really -- That's total accounts not individual owners.. Most dedicated players of eve have 2,3,4,5+ accounts.

Illadelph Justice
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:51:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Yarrrrrhh
Originally by: Xinxua
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh
Originally by: Lug Thorne
So really their short term financial future depends on keeping Eve going?
After jeopardizing it with WoD and Dust. That's how it looks to me.

Yes sticking to one product line and not expanding into new markets is the best way to expand your company.
Not sure if serious but: why did they have to start TWO new insanely big development projects at the same time?


Well they have to finish WoD before people stop reading twilight books.

Tahir ul-Batin
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:53:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Slighet
I suspect that it'll only be a timed exclusive to PS3. Unless you're the absolute must have shooter (hi Halo) then lifecycles on console really aren't that long. They're unlikely to be a massive long-term hit. it's possible certainly but it's not the sort of thing you bet your company on. So *assuming* it's not a massive failure I expect to see Dust either on a next-gen console when they arrive, or PC within a couple of years.


/this

Yarrrrrhh
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:54:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Illadelph Justice

Well they have to finish WoD before people stop reading twilight books.
One more reason to do that first and not develop Dust at the same time as well.

CCP management bit off more than it could chew.

larry hotter bigpants
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:55:00 - [39]
 

What I find shocking is that they consider their goodwill to be worth 4.2 million dollars. I can't wait t see what that number is in the 2011 report. Not because I think we all are complianing too much, but because of all the negative press they have received.

Annie Anomie
Shadows Of The Federation
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:57:00 - [40]
 

CCP I actually kinda like you guys and your game.

Somewhat less so than before I started watching some of your recent debacles but I don't see why we can't get the goodwill back. When you're not doing stuff like this you're actually a lot better than most MMO publishers.

If you give some indication of not just seeing us as cash cows to be milked and that you understand why your core customers play I'd probably even pay a higher sub.

Nevermind 60 quid monocles or other bat**** "get rich quick" schemes. Re-engage with your community (I know we're scarier than your missus on PMS week but still) and treat EVE with a bit of respect.

It's hard not to see this current situation in light of what I have heard about the development hiccups of Incarna and read about the management problems at CCP btw. Please fix that stuff so this doesn't happen again.

Maplestone
Myth and Peace Lords
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:01:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Maplestone on 27/06/2011 20:37:07
They could go over to the market discussions forum and offer a bond-for-PLEX.

(I'm only half-joking)

*looks at the meager PLEX-for-good stats*

(hmm maybe a little more than half-joking)

Ispai Ponue
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:02:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Yarrrrrhh

A personal note to CCP: A very unconventional solution would be to actually raise subscription fees after communicating it correctly to the community.


The problem is that I for one am not really willing to pay more at this point. I think others might feel the same. Here's why:

* The gameplay isn't actually THAT interesting. PvE sucks. PvP is cool but you end up in all these "have-to" situations filled with drama. If you just feel like doing something else people freak out. The only thing that really leaves a casual player is solo pirating, and that also gets pretty boring a lot of the time.

* I'm really disappointed in the company behind the game. They decide to rewrite it all in Python (the parts that where not already) because it supposedly increases testability, etc...and less and less actually works with every patch. They silently remove features for no apparent reason, don't fix what's currently broken, and just leave long standing issues that the players are complaining about untouched.

* The latest expansions kind of suck. Incarna is the end result of what I see as a continuous trend in the game: too much focus on nonsense while the actual game suffers. There's nothing about Incarna that's actually worth a damn. I hate CQ and find it utterly useless and though the guns are cool and all, I'd much rather an overview that functioned (just for one extreme example).

All of this stuff combined and I've hardly bothered to even log in of late. When I do it's just to train, not to play. I'm already asking myself WTF I keep shelling out money for this game (I have a measly 2 accounts). If they raised the price I think it would be the final push I need to just unsub.

Not to say that it's not a valid idea, I'm just saying that to me it simply wouldn't be worth it to pay more. I'm already kind of ****ed I have to pay for two accounts just to train two characters. No other MMO forces me to do that. So it's already the most expensive MMO I've ever played and really have no interest in paying any more.

But that's just me.

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:04:00 - [43]
 

FHC mentions a 30,000 unsub population is needed to put CCP in negative territory. It's also mentioned that they may already need MT to make their income look more attractive in order to get the loan at a lower rate. However, would that number be necessary to affect their potential to refinance their 11 mil loan that is due in October? If the community could resolve to keep a certain number unsubbed until then it might be just the leverage we need.

Yarrrrrhh
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:07:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Ispai Ponue
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh

A personal note to CCP: A very unconventional solution would be to actually raise subscription fees after communicating it correctly to the community.


The problem is that I for one am not really willing to pay more at this point. I think others might feel the same. Here's why:

* The gameplay isn't actually THAT interesting. PvE sucks. PvP is cool but you end up in all these "have-to" situations filled with drama. If you just feel like doing something else people freak out. The only thing that really leaves a casual player is solo pirating, and that also gets pretty boring a lot of the time.

* I'm really disappointed in the company behind the game. They decide to rewrite it all in Python (the parts that where not already) because it supposedly increases testability, etc...and less and less actually works with every patch. They silently remove features for no apparent reason, don't fix what's currently broken, and just leave long standing issues that the players are complaining about untouched.

* The latest expansions kind of suck. Incarna is the end result of what I see as a continuous trend in the game: too much focus on nonsense while the actual game suffers. There's nothing about Incarna that's actually worth a damn. I hate CQ and find it utterly useless and though the guns are cool and all, I'd much rather an overview that functioned (just for one extreme example).

All of this stuff combined and I've hardly bothered to even log in of late. When I do it's just to train, not to play. I'm already asking myself WTF I keep shelling out money for this game (I have a measly 2 accounts). If they raised the price I think it would be the final push I need to just unsub.

Not to say that it's not a valid idea, I'm just saying that to me it simply wouldn't be worth it to pay more. I'm already kind of ****ed I have to pay for two accounts just to train two characters. No other MMO forces me to do that. So it's already the most expensive MMO I've ever played and really have no interest in paying any more.

But that's just me.


You're right. I'm going to remove that from my post.

Langoss
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:12:00 - [45]
 

This is the reason they don't insta ban BOTS. They need bots's subs(money) too

Bieber Fever
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:13:00 - [46]
 

Some kind of neckbeard council of the best forum people should be assembled to run CCP.

Apparently there are people who figure out patch problems, expansion delusions, market effects, and much more far better than anyone at CCP.

Eve players know 10x more about eve than anyone at CCP.

Saving Face
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:13:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Saving Face on 27/06/2011 20:14:10
Originally by: Mr Kidd
FHC mentions a 30,000 unsub population is needed to put CCP in negative territory.



That's half of the picture. About 30k subs/year less would be enough to put their profit in the negative given everything else stays the same. The reported profit is meaningless though. Cash flow is important and that is already negative. (Unless they can sell shares again.)

Quote:

It's also mentioned that they may already need MT to make their income look more attractive in order to get the loan at a lower rate. However, would that number be necessary to affect their potential to refinance their 11 mil loan that is due in October? If the community could resolve to keep a certain number unsubbed until then it might be just the leverage we need.



They can pay that loan back if they don't lose their cash. Problem is they are still bleeding $8m per year so they need something to cover that or they go bankrupt in October. Increasing revenue from EVE by way of huge income from monocles would go a long way in convincing an investor/a bank that their code is actually worth what they said it was worth. Losing money over it will say the opposite, naturally.

Kurfin
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:16:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: larry hotter bigpants
What I find shocking is that they consider their goodwill to be worth 4.2 million dollars. I can't wait t see what that number is in the 2011 report. Not because I think we all are complianing too much, but because of all the negative press they have received.


Goodwill in accounting term has nothing to customer relations, it to do with dividing ownership of the business between investors. It's a number largely plucked our of thin air (or rather arranged by the directors according to who has comprising pictures of who) that in no way contributes to the companies financial security. Someone who has done their accountancy qualification more recently than me could probably explain it better.

It does look like they have spread themselves a little too thin. They could try partnering up with another company to help fund WoD, Dust is probably to much of a shot in the dark to get much outside investment in.

RC Denton
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:20:00 - [49]
 

Seems like they may have bitten off more than they can chew. Or if they haven't it'll be close based on the analysis of the folks in that thread. It seems like since they've hyped Dust and started doing press releases on it etc, that they should finish the game and release it. I fear it will not be the cash cow they hope it to be (I'm sure they'll get decent sales of the box, but I really doubt they'll see much residual income from MT).

It seems like they should be able to back burner WOD since they haven't hyped it up nearly as much as Dust, and even go so far as to shutter the Shanghai office temporarily. I'm not an accountant but merely postponing it, instead of cancelling it should allow them to avoid having to write off the asset all at once, thus killing their balance sheet. Doing this would free up capital to go into Dust development.

Hindsight is 20/20 but unless they have some contractual obligations with someone, you'd think that starting two whole new large scale development projects simultaneously might have been a bit too ambitious.

Laplamis
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:20:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Laplamis on 27/06/2011 20:25:44
Wow, this has to be the worst OS/browser combination I have ever experienced. Anyway...

Originally by: Jonathan Malcom
...perhaps improving the features of your existing product to increase player satisfaction and thereby generate more subscriptions via word of mouth...

This. THIS.

Dograzor
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:24:00 - [51]
 

Tbh if CCP is honest about needing more cashflow, I would not mind donating some extra cash.. As long as they give us a high quality product. I really would. Messed up thing is that I simply don't know what to believe as soon as CCP promises something. Confused

Uglavitch Nefrex
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:26:00 - [52]
 

Having read the end of year accounts, I actually support an increase in subscription cost, if they drop the microtransactions. Also I support a time limit on Plex.


Spookyjay
Caldari
Animosity.
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:26:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Spookyjay on 27/06/2011 20:32:42
Facts are facts. CCP can not afford to be messing around out side EVE. EVE is what you did well and should stick to. Ifor one call for WOD assets to be sold off.
Secondly MT or Sub increase will not solve CCP cash flow. MT is a short term solution that results in high player turn over. And sub increases in a multi-subscription environment means people Cut down overall subs but pay the same amount.
Not only this MT will have the same effect of people losing a account to spend the same cash a month on MT.

The only way for CCP to attract more profit is to deliver more wide appealing content and make younger character gameplay more appealing.
If this means WIS (incarna) with real station based activity. More friendly newb mechanics Even newb only pvp and ect zones. as well as rapid skill training to 10mill sp then fine.

Saving Face
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:29:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Saving Face on 27/06/2011 20:30:03
Originally by: Uglavitch Nefrex
Having read the end of year accounts, I actually support an increase in subscription cost, if they drop the microtransactions. Also I support a time limit on Plex.



Yeah that would work well, all the PLEXes suddenly being used up ;)

Jessie42
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:30:00 - [55]
 

Welp, CCP are bankrupt.

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:30:00 - [56]
 

Pretty much proof is in the pudding, they have over stepped trying to develop 3 games at once and are now feeling the pinch. Trying to rob Peter to pay Paul never works for long, but at least we know for certain now why they are pushing MT so hard.

Guess we will see how it all rides out comes Oct, will they work out a deal or have to give up most of their operating cash to pay off debit. One would assume if they can pay out the debit as a still profitable company that they should be able to acquire new debit.

Yet someone needs to come to their senses and focus on what got them where they are today. It damn sure wasn't WoD or Dust. Nothing wrong with growing and building new income sources but doing it at the cost of your main income source is not smart.

Obviously Confidential
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:31:00 - [57]
 

It is insane to develop three games at the same time.

WoD and DUST are two risky projects with highly dubious commercial prospects and that require large amounts of investment.

Coming from the same company that has recently failed at simple internet forums and keeps on neglecting its main revenue generator, that is being used as a milking cow / golden goose instead of being perceived as a real opportunity for growth. Their best source of organic and sustainable growth is being gambled for some risky crap that I think will end up as not one, but two commercial disasters - if ever released.

Instead of growing with their feet on the ground from a small and solid base, CCP decided to shoot for the moon and chase after the :bigbux: markets.

Let's hope all is not lost in this folly. The real opportunity is EVE! Stop being blinded by greedy megalomania.

The CEO should really stop attending business gaming conventions and just play more EVE.

Piper Combs
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:31:00 - [58]
 

If CCP were to promise to release Dust for the PC, I'd be willing to pre-order the game right now. I imagine there are probably a lot of other people who would too, which could add up to a significant amount of money.


moneykeeper
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:32:00 - [59]
 

Cry me a river. If CCP wanted my cash they should have made the game better instead of making a shop to sell pants. There are many better charities than a failing game making corporation.


Tugrath Akers
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:32:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Spookyjay
Facts are facts. CCP can not afford to be messing around out side EVE. EVE is what you did well and should stick to. Ifor one call for WOD assets to be sold off.


What could they sell WOD for? A bag of peanuts, 2 ears of corn, and a bag of Ruffles?


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