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Toxic Raioin
Posted - 2011.07.03 09:13:00 - [181]
 

Edited by: Toxic Raioin on 03/07/2011 09:13:55
Originally by: Zephy Russ
Originally by: Toxic Raioin

Question The game is already badly unbalanced due to general ship issues and a large portion of players with loads of sp. If anything it would slightly balance it.


You're implying that players with loads of SP are an imbalance to the game and have it accepted without thought, get it under the radar, so to speak. Not gonna work.


technically they are. Two equally skilled pilots with the same ship fight each other, the only difference is 1 has 6 months worth of SP and the other a year. Who wins? With no cap it takes a long time to reduce the impact of that other players 6 month head start and obviously much longer vs a 1+ year head start. That causes imbalance.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.03 11:01:00 - [182]
 

Edited by: Toovhon on 03/07/2011 12:23:41
Anyone selfish, lazy and stupid enough to support this P2W crap, needs to be removed from Eve, as I would scuff off dogsh!t from my boots, after being unfortunate enough to tread in it.

Sabre Tek
Posted - 2011.07.03 11:33:00 - [183]
 

Originally by: Toovhon
Anyone selfish, lazy and stupid enough to support this P2W crap needs to be removed from Eve, as I would scuff off dogsh!t from my boots, after being unfortunate enough to tread in it.


We already have pay to win, pay CCP money for plex buy toon = win? No it equals pay for freedom from limited SP and years of boring limited gameplay.

We already have this, the only reason we're suggesting it as a good thing as it will help the new player base get involved in Eve more instead of rage quiting cause Eve sucks for new players, which it DOES!

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.03 12:18:00 - [184]
 

Originally by: Sabre Tek
Originally by: Toovhon
Anyone selfish, lazy and stupid enough to support this P2W crap needs to be removed from Eve, as I would scuff off dogsh!t from my boots, after being unfortunate enough to tread in it.


We already have pay to win, pay CCP money for plex buy toon = win? No it equals pay for freedom from limited SP and years of boring limited gameplay.

We already have this, the only reason we're suggesting it as a good thing as it will help the new player base get involved in Eve more instead of rage quiting cause Eve sucks for new players, which it DOES!


All I'm hearing from you is "I ignore reality, and want easy mode regardless of the consequences! Wah! Wahhhhh! I don't want to have to play the game! Wahhhhhhh! I want to cheat! WAHHHHHHHHHHHH!"

Sorry, no - you don't get to have your way with everything. You're going to have to play the game just like everyone else. You are not a special snowflake and you will not be accorded special treatment.

*sighs* This is what happens when you raise a generation without being told no, and given honest answers about their limitations. They think they can have their way whenever they like, and when things don't go their way, they don't try to adapt or learn from their experiences. Instead they blame everyone and everything else but themselves.

Talk about massive entitlement issues... uggg! *disgusted look*

Humpink Omaristos
Posted - 2011.07.03 12:29:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: Toovhon
Sorry, no - you don't get to have your way with everything. You're going to have to play the game just like everyone else. You are not a special snowflake and you will not be accorded special treatment.

Don't have our way with "everything"? What else are you referring to? Or are you talking about some RL issue you are facing and you can't stop yourself from bringing it into the game.

It's not "special" treatment when it is available to every player. That should really be obvious.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.03 12:39:00 - [186]
 

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos
Originally by: Toovhon
Sorry, no - you don't get to have your way with everything. You're going to have to play the game just like everyone else. You are not a special snowflake and you will not be accorded special treatment.

Don't have our way with "everything"? What else are you referring to? Or are you talking about some RL issue you are facing and you can't stop yourself from bringing it into the game.

It's not "special" treatment when it is available to every player. That should really be obvious.


It's special treatment when you think you have the right to ruin Eve just because you're too lazy, selfish or inept to play it. As for your lame attempt at turnabout... wellll... it was just lame. I guess laziness infects all aspects of your life, if you couldn't be arsed to think up a better counter.

So I'm sorry (I'm not actually - it's only a polite saying), but no. No, no, no. You may not have easy mode. Go play an ultra-casual MMO if you can't hack it in Eve.

Only a spoilt brat with massive entitlement issues would think destroying everyone else's game instead of moving on to something more suitable for them, is acceptable behaviour.

Sabre Tek
Posted - 2011.07.03 17:30:00 - [187]
 

Edited by: Sabre Tek on 03/07/2011 17:35:09
Edited by: Sabre Tek on 03/07/2011 17:32:30
Edited by: Sabre Tek on 03/07/2011 17:31:46
Originally by: Toovhon

All I'm hearing from you is "I ignore reality, and want easy mode regardless of the consequences! Wah! Wahhhhh! I don't want to have to play the game! Wahhhhhhh! I want to cheat! WAHHHHHHHHHHHH!"

Sorry, no - you don't get to have your way with everything. You're going to have to play the game just like everyone else. You are not a special snowflake and you will not be accorded special treatment.

*sighs* This is what happens when you raise a generation without being told no, and given honest answers about their limitations. They think they can have their way whenever they like, and when things don't go their way, they don't try to adapt or learn from their experiences. Instead they blame everyone and everything else but themselves.

Talk about massive entitlement issues... uggg! *disgusted look*



You want me to adapt and learn to live within the limits of a system I don't like? You suggest I accept when someone says "no" to me and just live with the rules I'm given? Wow you just told me a lot about yourself right there.

You just do what your told in life uh? do what your boss says, I know you don't have a business, don't question authority and believe everything your government and the news says is the 100% truth. And just be happy with the rules/limits people put on you. Make sure you don't try to break out and be something different you might achieve something! Well done your a Sheep.

I as a Snowflake as you say, do feel I'm special, if being special means I'm a person who doesn't want to play a game over half a decade of my life just to play the endgame content. I didn't want to play your waiting game and so I spent a couple of days income on a buying a 100mill sp toon (tax deductible business research). So no I don't have to wait, yes I did get special treatment and yes this is already part of the game mechanics and rules. My efforts in the real world were a far better investment of my time than spending years waiting in Eve and running low level repetitive game content or checking on my skill training daily and going and playing some other game while my ingame character levels by itself without my interaction. (which when you think about it is absolutely STUPID).

Just ask any of the 10 million players in World of Warcraft if Blizzard put in the rules that their ingame grinding had zero benefit to their level growth as a character and that to use that new sword or shield they simply had to wait 2.5 months in the real world even though they could afford it now. Do you really think Blizzard would have as many players? Blizzard cater to the new players with a wonderful advancement system whereby gamers can advance at a pace they are happy with based on their efforts/knowledge & skill. They do not have endless limitations on their game play like Eve does. Hence why they have so many gamers. Sure Eve's a different game but the basic game play concept is the same, if Blizzard put endless restrictions on new players of WOW and new players were stuck in 1-10 level game play for 1 year the average new player would hate the fact they can't advance their character in any meaningful way and QUIT! As happens with 100's of new players quitting Eve daily/weekly for this very reason.

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.07.03 18:54:00 - [188]
 

Man, so many people seem to be behind your idea.

Oh wait...

Its funny that you talk about how only a tiny portion of the community use the forums, and an even tinier portion (like less than 10) support your idea.

Glad this one will never make it on the CSM list.


HAVE A NICE DAY!

Humpink Omaristos
Posted - 2011.07.03 18:55:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: Toovhon
It's special treatment when you think you have the right to ruin Eve just because you're too lazy, selfish or inept to play it. As for your lame attempt at turnabout... wellll... it was just lame. I guess laziness infects all aspects of your life, if you couldn't be arsed to think up a better counter.

So I'm sorry (I'm not actually - it's only a polite saying), but no. No, no, no. You may not have easy mode. Go play an ultra-casual MMO if you can't hack it in Eve.

Only a spoilt brat with massive entitlement issues would think destroying everyone else's game instead of moving on to something more suitable for them, is acceptable behaviour.

Here's a tissue so you can wipe the foam off of your mouth.
It's pretty clear that to you this isn't about SP for cash. There's an underlying issue that gets you so riled up. You are the less favored sibling, aren't you? Your parent handed everything to your brother but made you work for it and whatever you did was never enough while he didn't even have to ask and they just gave him everything!

Man, that's quite some baggage to carry around but there's no point in bringing it into the game. Yes, you are probably the smarter one between the two of you, but he's not socially awkward and that's why they favor him over you. Then there's the emo rage issue which really isn't an appealing character trait so you really can't be too harsh on your parents for loving your brother more.

Anyway, ineptitude doesn't apply since it doesn't take expertise to train skillpoints. Lazyness doesn't apply either because it takes no active action to train skillpoints. Selfishness? Sure, wanting a character which will fit one's preferences for name, looks, and skillpoint distribution is selfish, you will not find me arguing otherwise.

Ruining the game? All the evidence the opponents of SP for cash have is some magic 8 ball.

Here's some evidence the supporters have that demonstrates that the sandbox easily deals with anything thrown at it:

ArrowT2 BPO nerf, or if you are CCP you call invention a feature of an expansion. How many people took to the forums and predicted the complete collapse of the economy if everyone had the ability to build T2? We are still here, years later.

ArrowSOV 4 nerf + Titan DD, or if you are CCP you call the changes a feature of an expansion.
Recall the rage about the inability to build Titans in absolute safety? EVE was supposed to be doomed, yet there are more Titans than ever and players are still in 0.0 en mass.

ArrowPI, or if you are CCP you call players making POS fuel a feature of an expansion.
It was doom and gloom on the forums, depopulating of 0.0 was predicted, mass unsubs, the fall of EVE. Obviously none of it happened.

This isn't 2003, lots of other activities compete for one's limited leisure time. The current SP for money & time business model is no longer viable. Anyone who is able to rationally look at it with long term sustainability in mind recognizes that.

Lu'Marat
Posted - 2011.07.03 19:23:00 - [190]
 

Wow, this thread is 7 pages deep and the thread starter is still here arguing his point... cudos to you sir, cudos indeed.

Personally I am not entirely decided on this issue, but I also lean heavily towards selling SP for cash at least to some extent, most of all for the reason that the real-time learning IS quite a detriment to bringing new players to the game.

But obviously, an all-out sale of SP could prove harmful. Still, I think there are ways to do this without bringing down armageddon.

Say, SP are not sold directly, but rather as a buff to SP gain per hour. That way, even the uber-rich person with a house full of cash that everyone is afraid of won't be able to jump into his titan right away. (Well yes he can, he can just buy a character. But anyway.) And the new players can decide to shell out some extra cash or isk and get a little sooner into the more interesting gear.

Also, say SP are not sold infinitely, but only to a certain limit. That could be either only to characters below a certain level of SP, or it could simply mean only a limited number of SP can ever be bought by any one character (or account?). Whether that's 1 mil, or 5 or 10 or whatever is a matter of fine tuning.

Finally, say, SP are not cheap. I really don't know how to balance this properly, but I think the OP has a good suggestion by offering SP for the same money they'd have cost when learned during a month of subscription. Mind you, I think when buying SP directly you get less for your money than when investing the same money into a subscription and training the slow way, because you miss out on the gameplay that accompanies growing into better ships and gear.

And of course, if a noob were to shell out $10.000 just because he can and buy a titan and a pilot to boot, that only means one thing usually: A titan wreck, a podkill and lots of ridicule in local and on the forums. And a lot of salvage and loot for the market.

Toxic Raioin
Posted - 2011.07.03 21:33:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: Lu'Marat


And of course, if a noob were to shell out $10.000 just because he can and buy a titan and a pilot to boot, that only means one thing usually: A titan wreck, a podkill and lots of ridicule in local and on the forums. And a lot of salvage and loot for the market.


Yea this is pretty much the reason i really dont care is SP is sold or not. Experienced and proven pilots will always fly the big ships over some one who bought the sp. As we both have already stated it doesnt solve the real reason more people dont play this game.

malkisania
asde solutions
Posted - 2011.07.04 01:04:00 - [192]
 

Edited by: malkisania on 04/07/2011 01:24:39
There is a bunch of reasons why doing something like this could imbalance the game, say for example SP could be bought and most people would want to buy SP,

All the NPE content for the game would become pretty much unused as people would buy their way out of having to play it for little ISK reward.

There would likely be a decrease in market demand for noobships i.e frigates, destroyers, t1 cruisers, meta 4 modules and an increase in demand for higher end goods, t2 BS , capital ships, supercapitals etc.
This would also most likely bring about less diversity in ships that people choose to fly as people generally conform to certain fleet docterines when flying ships, therefore fleets would likely end up pretty bland as a result of this. (this can allready be seen in alliances that are strict with pvp reimbursements)

Any SP for ISK program would inflate the market price of PLEX making PLEX harder to aquire for those that buy them, if PLEX prices get to high CCP will lose subscribers as people start to shut down alt accounts etc.. There is also a lot of subscribers that aren't really that active ingame (e.g. players in military in rl) and only keep themselves subbed in order to keep skill queues going while away.

It would close the skillgap (sp wise not skillwise) of carebear alliances vs veteren pvp alliances, not a bad idea in itself but could possibly bring about a new form of elitism with in certain corp/alliance circles where recruits are required to have lvl5 skills in all requested disiplines to join.

The character bizarre prices would collapse as people could custom create theyre own. This would **** off many of the high sp vets who can currently get 40 bil + for some of the top end toons. Better way of buying SP without adding widespread RL money for SP would be something along the lines of this topic: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1443018 , this way no new SP comes into game, it doesnt disturb the natural flow of the game and new players can customise their new bought toons.

So in essence the likely result of introducing pay for sp would likely make a lot of the old vets unsub along with a good deal of people who fund their charactors with plex as the price would most likely double, in their place will come casual players who never really stick at any game too long, will probably turn over more revenue in short term but will soon cancel when the next FOTM game comes out or buy SP too quick and become bored.

The notion that people rich people in RL should be able to fast track their way in a game sounds a bit stupid to me. After all its a game not real life and many people successful in real life are crap at playing computer games. The op really shouldn't be confusing RL money with ingame advantage and focus more on the journey the EVE Online experience offers over time by being in alliances, corps and actually doing stuff, no amount of sp can compensate for that.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.04 02:30:00 - [193]
 

bad idea. This will make EVE into something no better than farmville. Or those other sleazy mmos that advertise on the sidebar of facebook sites.


Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.04 02:34:00 - [194]
 

Originally by: Toxic Raioin
Originally by: Lu'Marat


And of course, if a noob were to shell out $10.000 just because he can and buy a titan and a pilot to boot, that only means one thing usually: A titan wreck, a podkill and lots of ridicule in local and on the forums. And a lot of salvage and loot for the market.


Yea this is pretty much the reason i really dont care is SP is sold or not. Experienced and proven pilots will always fly the big ships over some one who bought the sp. As we both have already stated it doesnt solve the real reason more people dont play this game.


It also may mean a Titangoonswarm fleet running rampant. This suggestion is about as silly as the government subsidizing underperforming mortgages in the effort to 'allow every american to own a home'. Yeah, great idea!

Humpink Omaristos
Posted - 2011.07.04 04:06:00 - [195]
 

Originally by: malkisania
Any SP for ISK program would inflate the market price of PLEX

How do you figure?
The above could be a concern if the main purpose of people buying PLEX for RL cash is to sell the PLEX for ISK to buy characters. Based on my experience over the years people on average buy PLEX for RL cash to get ISK to finance their PvP losses or market activity. If that is true then the impact on the in-game PLEX price will be marginal.

One could even argue that PLEX would become less expensive in-game since all those people who bought SP for ISK don't have the long time experience in how to create ISK in game and would thus resort to selling PLEX for ISK to buy the ships/fittings they are now able to fly.

Originally by: Kaelie Onren
This suggestion is about as silly as the government subsidizing underperforming mortgages in the effort to 'allow every american to own a home'. Yeah, great idea!

Pro tip: When going for a RL analogy make sure it fits before posting.
In the SP for cash scheme no one would be subsidizing anything, on the contrary, those who buy SP would have to pay a premium. So yeah, it's nothing like what you wrote, feel free to try again though.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.04 04:13:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos
Originally by: malkisania
Any SP for ISK program would inflate the market price of PLEX

How do you figure?
The above could be a concern if the main purpose of people buying PLEX for RL cash is to sell the PLEX for ISK to buy characters. Based on my experience over the years people on average buy PLEX for RL cash to get ISK to finance their PvP losses or market activity. If that is true then the impact on the in-game PLEX price will be marginal.

One could even argue that PLEX would become less expensive in-game since all those people who bought SP for ISK don't have the long time experience in how to create ISK in game and would thus resort to selling PLEX for ISK to buy the ships/fittings they are now able to fly.

Originally by: Kaelie Onren
This suggestion is about as silly as the government subsidizing underperforming mortgages in the effort to 'allow every american to own a home'. Yeah, great idea!

Pro tip: When going for a RL analogy make sure it fits before posting.
In the SP for cash scheme no one would be subsidizing anything, on the contrary, those who buy SP would have to pay a premium. So yeah, it's nothing like what you wrote, feel free to try again though.


The analogy is meant to illustrate the stupidity of the premise primarily, and secondarily as both inflate and add volatility to the market. (adding a new way for noobs to pilot a Titan without putting in the 'time') So, it fits pretty well, I think.

The 'mortgage crash' would be when all the noobs get blown to bits because they do not have the actualy skill in playing the game, and all that was achieved was to artificially inflate market prices for all these RL rich noobs who wanna go pewpew immediately.


Humpink Omaristos
Posted - 2011.07.04 05:13:00 - [197]
 

Originally by: Kaelie Onren
The analogy is meant to illustrate the stupidity of the premise primarily, and secondarily as both inflate and add volatility to the market. (adding a new way for noobs to pilot a Titan without putting in the 'time')

Except that it has been stated numerous times in this thread that there would be mechanics in place to not allow players who buy SP to progress instantly to a Titan. It's also been stated a couple of times that there are plenty of Titan pilots, what limits the amount of deployed Titans is the number of actually available ships.

What does "inflate the market" mean from where you are looking? Same question for volatility. It's pretty easy to make those broad claims but when you take a minute to think it through and truly consider all reasonable outcomes, especially in comparison to what the sandbox has already seen in terms of changes, then there's no other way than to come to the conclusion that the sky isn't falling.

Buying SP is about getting new players into a place where they can choose from a range of ships and be able to fit them well. It's about allowing you to roll a trade alt if you want it and willing to pay for it. It's about giving every single existing pilot the ability to just pay up and get those armor and shield resists to 5 that they have been putting of for so long.

Skipping a couple of years of skilltraining does not create an "I win!" button. Anyone who's at the very least halfway reasonable will see that, especially if there are sensible restrictions on how many SP can be purchased, when, and on what they can be allocated.

Evenus Battuta
Posted - 2011.07.04 06:13:00 - [198]
 

Skill systems do suck and an average player won't like a game without any hope of being equal to vets. But the game is simply not well made enough to make players stay without hijacking them with skill system. CCP need to keep players in illusion like "this will turn fun ONLY AFTER I can fly XXX". If you give players all skills lv5 instantly, many of they will realize within a month and shout out "Oh god the game DOES sucks!" and leave.

Anyway still a good idea for CCP because those who leave already paid the same amount they supposed to, instantly.

Sabre Tek
Posted - 2011.07.04 06:49:00 - [199]
 

Edited by: Sabre Tek on 04/07/2011 06:51:47
Fact is most of you ignore the fact that rich players can come in buy 120 mill sp toons and Titans already, heck someone can buy 10 of em if they want to drump $50,000 down big deal? Its not happening and its allowed already in the character bizzar.

Your all saying everyone would have super elite pilots. No they wouldn't. People would play at a rate that let them level and enjoy their game play experience. I wouldn't buy more SP if I could for my current pilots as I don't desperately need to fly a Minimatar battleship i'll fly a Caldari Tengu till my skills train up naturally ingame. And most will not buy mega toons and dump $500-1000 because they already have that option and most do not do this only a small percentage of the eve population buy characters.

So your whole "would ruin Eve cause everyone has high sp toons" is just wrong. people can buy them now they don't want them, they do want to get over 3-4 week humps in their gameplay where they feel restricted and then quit. if you give them a small option to get over that hump to that new ship and new ingame content they will play for longer.

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.04 08:30:00 - [200]
 

Edited by: Toovhon on 04/07/2011 08:31:13
Sorry, all these pages later and still - no, you may not have easy-ultra-casual-buy-my-way-into-a-giant-ship-because-in-my-ignorance-I-think-that's-the-only-way-to-have-fun-mode.

But hey, continue to refuse to deal with your entitlement issues, laziness and selfishness, and go on whinging in what has to be one of the the most unpopular threads for it's length.

Also utterly fail to notice the massive protests only a week ago over MT, and fail to realise asking for uber-easy-cheat-mode-via-MT a week later might be the dumbest move yet recorded on Eve forums.

Well done sir!

Better Than You
Posted - 2011.07.04 08:40:00 - [201]
 

Real life exists horribles.


Deal with it.

/shades

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.04 08:55:00 - [202]
 

Originally by: Better Than You
Real life exists horribles.


Deal with it.

/shades



Obnoxious name, assumption, attitude, post, even text colour. Subtle trolling much? :-D

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.04 09:05:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: Toxic Raioin
Edited by: Toxic Raioin on 03/07/2011 07:26:09
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Toxic Raioin
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson
No on skill points for $$$.

It is an exploit which will break the game.

New and old players buy characters of the bazaar already. Buying SP outright gives you better control of it and other stuff. So your point is irrelevant.

It's the PLEX vs. AURUM argument. In the case of selling a character, no extra SP is being injected into the EVE economy (in the broadest sense of the term). A character's ownership (= license to use, to be precise) is basically the only thing that changes hands. In the case of buying SP, however, you create SP from thin air; essentially -- just like running a money printing press -- causing inflation (of the value of SP, in this case). And it will mean a great disturbance in The Force, game-balance wise.

So, a big resounding NO to this proposal.

Question The game is already badly unbalanced due to general ship issues and a large portion of players with loads of sp. If anything it would slightly balance it.

Vets with more SP than noobs is as 'unbalanced' as a six-grader being further ahead than a first-grader: in other words, not unbalanced at all.

All y'all fail at Economy 101, really.

Bo Tosh
Posted - 2011.07.04 09:24:00 - [204]
 

Not supported.

Having to wait for something that you trained for makes it more worth while. This would destroy that and much of what makes EvE worth playing.

Explosivesonhand
Posted - 2011.07.04 09:46:00 - [205]
 

Absolutely not supported.

This whole thing about a small, vocal minority of players not liking micro-transactions is absolute rubbish. It's absolutely true that most players don't participate in the forums, the same as most players don't participate in the CSM. But hardly anyone wants to see micro-transactions that allow real money to be a substitute for effort and time in the game.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.07.04 09:59:00 - [206]
 

Going to echo again the complete ludicrous nature of this proposal, which seems to be posted by impatient players from WOW.

Earn your isk, RMT is a bannable offense from CCP, and essentially your proposal is exchanging real usd/eur for implants. The amount of game inbalance that this meta-game leak will cause are numerous. As isk flows already have leaks (in plex) the last bastion of exploit free mechanics is the SP system. Now proponents want that exploitable as well. Why not turn EVE into a RTS while we are at it, then we can get some starcraft gamers to join too. :)

Sydexlic Maragan
Posted - 2011.07.04 11:04:00 - [207]
 

HELL NO

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.07.04 11:22:00 - [208]
 

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos
Right now the most limiting factor, other than the learning curve, for a new player to enter EVE is the fixed rate at which skillpoints can be acquired. Even someone who wants to just go out and tackle in a T1 frig still needs to put a few days of training into it before they can do out and do that.

New characters really should start with all skillpoints required to fly and fit a T1 tackler, but that's a different topic altogether.

CCP should sell skillpoints for RL cash!

As a rough estimate one can acquire 12 million skillpoints per year. So go ahead CCP and sell 1 million skillpoints for $15, or 1 million skillpoints for one PLEX.

This shouldn't jade the bitter vets any further since they didn't "work" for their skillpoints either, they merely paid for them and waited for the training to be completed. New players will have the option to skip the wait by paying up, or just pay monthly and wait.


Hell no...

I could probably support an improved SP acquisition for newbies to a degree, but certainly nothing beyond cutting off the difficulty of the first 6 months. And certainly not for older players.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.04 15:03:00 - [209]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Hell no...

I could probably support an improved SP acquisition for newbies to a degree, but certainly nothing beyond cutting off the difficulty of the first 6 months. And certainly not for older players.

The learning skills were removed to help the newbie already. No need to add to that.

Humpink Omaristos
Posted - 2011.07.04 18:52:00 - [210]
 

Let me preface what I am about to say with that I didn't say that vets vs noobs is unbalanced, someone else did, however;
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Vets with more SP than noobs is as 'unbalanced' as a six-grader being further ahead than a first-grader: in other words, not unbalanced at all.

All y'all fail at Economy 101, really.

Honestly, you fail at analogies, for the second time and all on page 7. Comparing vets and noobs to sixth-graders and first-graders makes no sense at all because unlike EVE players they are not limited to being stuck on the same playground.

Originally by: Explosivesonhand
This whole thing about a small, vocal minority of players not liking micro-transactions is absolute rubbish. It's absolutely true that most players don't participate in the forums, the same as most players don't participate in the CSM. But hardly anyone wants to see micro-transactions that allow real money to be a substitute for effort and time in the game.

So your argument is that because a small number of players compared to the overall number of players spoke up against MT it's clear that "hardly anyone" is in support? My argument is that those who were opposed spoke up, the rest didn't care one way or another or are in favor. If a person isn't happy with something, a service, a purchase, whatever, they speak up. They don't continue to pay a company for a service if they don't agree with the way it is performed. I have logic and reality on my side, what do you have?

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Hell no...

I could probably support an improved SP acquisition for newbies to a degree, but certainly nothing beyond cutting off the difficulty of the first 6 months. And certainly not for older players.

Thanks for being the first CSM to actually post here. Kudos for that.
However, CSM action on this issue isn't required, nor would CSM action either in support or in opposition have any effect on CCP's decision to implement this feature, or any other feature.

I realize that you are spending your time on what you perceive to be the betterment of EVE, and for that I notion I do thank you. I'll leave it at that because this isn't the place to discuss the value of the CSM as a whole.


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