open All Channels
seplocked Assembly Hall
blankseplocked It's time for CCP to sell skillpoints for RL cash!
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 ... : last (11)

Author Topic

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.02 16:22:00 - [151]
 

I'm imagining these people who ask for an 'I Win button' in Eve were the same who as small children upended board games when they started to lose. The other kids back then would stand for them cheating, and we adults still won't stand for it today. Yet they keep on trying, having tantrums, and trolling when they can't get an easy mode and things don't go their way.

Dan Estrellas Amigo
Posted - 2011.07.02 16:22:00 - [152]
 

Edited by: Dan Estrellas Amigo on 02/07/2011 16:26:42
Let's separate two things first:

1. Paying money for skill points but being unable to purchase them by any means in-game.

2. Paying money for skill points in a way that can convert to ISK, such as by using PLEX or AUR.


If you think the latter is a good idea and believe that allowing any means of trading SP for ISK wouldn't significantly rewrite the game, you're really not thinking it through. Let's put this idea down to a bad joke and leave it out. It doesn't really need to be explained because CCP surely already know it's a terrible idea.

···

Focusing on the point 1 then, like I said in my original post, the issue is that a grown character has meaning and the OP is suggesting selling out that meaning. No, you don't make a game better by letting players buy the important parts of the game. Skill points, and the way they grow and the way we compare our SP to the SP of every single other character in the game, are a core part of Eve's gameplay. Yes you can buy ISK, and thus ships, guns and what have you. But in terms of growth, what is the one thing that has real meaning in Eve, that every character is fairly bound to? Skill points. You want to take that away just because you're impatient? That is the game. Skill points are the same battle that everyone competes in. If you don't like it, don't play it. That's a better idea than suggesting we break it for everyone just so some can trade money for personal advantage in the one thing that means most.

The whole reason a concept such as "gameplay" exists is due to deliberate restrictions of freedom. Pretending freedom is an argument is nothing but typing it out for the buzzword that it is.

···

Yes you can buy characters. Meanwhile, if a 100 million SP character is bought, a 100 million SP character is also sold. No difference occurs in Eve at all.

That character, all his skill points, and all the meaning of those skill points was already there and thus no player is going to begrudge that because no character is getting ahead for money. The player does, yes, but no-one cares about that because their Eve hasn't been dampened by it.

···

A final point is just to kind of say, wake up. If you make any MMO game and allow the defining measurement of a character of that game to be sourced by real life cash, it reduces the experience for everyone who doesn't pay cash.

I understand that some games are like this and they do work, but in those games the problem is still there; the experience is still being reduced. The important point here is to ask yourself what does a player do then if they don't like the concept? They don't play. Those games were that way from the start. The players of those games knew how it worked when they started, and if they didn't like the idea, they accepted that the game was not for them. Same with Eve only the other way around, because hundreds of thousands of people have accepted and signed up for Eve as one of those games where they can compete with all other players, not their credit cards. That is a big deal to me. And if you don't like the idea, don't play it.

Laruen Pleides
Posted - 2011.07.02 16:28:00 - [153]
 

The Entitlement is really thick in this thread.

"I'm rich and successful, therefore the world owes me what I want!"

How about this: Skill points being trained over time is two fold.

First, it makes money for CCP when you decide you want to train to fly a Widow, because it takes months to do so, and you have to pay the subscription fees. CCP is a company that needs to make money, this is how they have chosen to do it, and so far it works. Don't like it? Don't play EVE.

Second, and this is the part the "I deserve" crowd can't get through their coddled brains, skill points level the playing field among all RL financial situations.
Whether someone can afford a single account, or 30 accounts, everyone is limited by this one factor. It gives the guy in a crappy apartment looking for a way to escape his dead end life the same advantage as the 22yr old inheritance brat.

If you can't deal with those two points, EVE is simply not for you. Just because a person is rich, doesn't mean they have a "right" to demand that every company they come into contact with bend over backwards and change their product to make their life easier.

I wouldn't be against giving newbies a preset amount of un-alocated skill points. Not enough to fly a battlecruiser, but maybe enough to get them started on the career path they choose.

Anything else just sounds like people want gank-insurance. Again, if you can't deal with a 12 year old podding you in low sec and then talking smack in local about it, then don't play EVE. Being rich doesn't give you the right to any more entitlements than anyone else.

The argument that your time is valuable is flat as well. Skill training happens on a 24/7 basis. Log in for a minute a day (or in higher skill cases, once a week) and adjust your skill queue.

You people are an embarrassment to those of us who are successful and understand the idea that success doesn't equal entitlement.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.02 16:41:00 - [154]
 

Originally by: MorliDots22

Originally by: Adunh Slavy

Those past characters, those in the bazaar were in the game. They contributed to the sandbox with their time and their efforts. As they gained SP, they gained the ability to have a larger impact upon the sandbox by their character's abilities. The slow steady gain of SP acts as a governor upon the economy of the game. This does not limit abilities of their RL controllers. That is what makes the sandbox come alive, make it breath, feel and think. Your RL impatience is your problem, you wish to impose the unintended consequences upon everyone else.

The purchase of SP for PLEX will create short cuts across the sandbox in order to overcome the RL impatience of some at the expense of everyone else. You are free to choose to be impatient or not, that however does not give you the right to impose your desires on everyone else. If SP can be purchased for PLEX, everyone will purchase SP for PLEX, most everyone will be required to purchase SP for PLEX to maintain their position in the pecking order that is society. The weights upon the governor will have been removed.



This is a real good argument, I must admit. Purchasing SP for PLEX will create a mass of high-skilled characters who werent there before. But how it will ruin the gameplay ? The strategy and cunning still come with game experience. I can start as a tackler with 1m SP or I can start as a tackler with 50m SP. In second variant I will be able to fly t2 ships and use t2 modules, I can try more combinations and have more fun. So the 2 variant has more "comfort".



It will create imbalances in the sandbox, and those imbalances will be particularly hard on newer players who are unable to as yet afford to purchase SP via the PLEX method. Fewer people will produce the ships and modules new players need. Fewer people will be able to help noobies or even care about them. The gap between new players and older players will become even more wide. The purchase of SP will become a necessity and not an option, just like learning skills used to be.

As for your T1/T2 tackler example, that's a rather subjective argument, comfort and fun. I am sure there is some new player in Eve right now that is having more fun than a lot of other people. I am sure there is a new player out there is who very unhappy and not having fun. Just as there is some older player out there with 60 billion ISK and unhappy because he does not have 500 billion ISK. Fun is what one chooses is fun. In Eve, there is a lot of room for not only making your own fun, but how to even measure it. By creating an SP race to the top, a lot of that choice is removed because a new necessity is created. Removing choices, removes freedoms.

Humpink Omaristos
Posted - 2011.07.02 20:42:00 - [155]
 

What IMHO needs to be stated, or restated, is that ultimately everyone who continues to gives CCP $15/mo wants the same thing: EVE should remain successful for years to come.

Many, if not most, people realize that this success can only come true if players who currently do not play EVE have the ability to enter the game.

Originally by: Zephy Russ
Why wait for something when you can get it faster? And yet we come to another section of my quote:

"so when you finally have your golden **** and balls, you'll love it all the more."

That is to say, things only remain desirable as long as they are out of our reach. Once we have obtained them, they become mundane and you quickly get bored of them. Thus, once everything in EVE is within your reach, why bother playing anymore?

By that logic, those pilots who have 100+ mil SP would all be quitting EVE because it's not worth playing anymore since they can fly all there is to fly.

I'll answer your question; Because EVE players do not play the game for SP. Gaining SP is not an in-game goal, it's merely an attribute of the character. I think that we can all agree that most players play the game for the social aspect of the game. WAIT, don't hit quote yet, I know what you and others are going to say: "You can be social from day 1 as is!"

Yes, you can be social from day 1 as is no one ever denied that.
What you can't do from day 1 is have the option to participate on a more equal footing while maintaining your individuality as player by creating your avatar (which now matters more than it ever did), picking your own name, and allocating your own skillpoints.

To all those who say "OMG the sandbox balance will be upset" tell me how do you feel about a character sale coming with the ability to change your name, appearance, and reset all your skillpoints so they can be reallocated? Nothing new would be introduced into the sandbox, the balance would remain, right? Riiiiight?

Originally by: Heroltior Ghedonia
How about this then... What about you buy the skill points, but must also purchase enough plex to purchase the skill books to train up said purchased skills. Shoot! some books are hundreds of millions of isk each. So, instead of $15 for the 10 mil sp or whatever... you have to pay $50 for the plex to get the isk to buy the books to validate the skills.

This is a very valid point, I applaud you for thinking about actual implications of SP purchases rather than just hop on the anti-SP-purchase bandwagon and ride along. ;)

One way to address this would be that you simply cannot train certain skills with purchased SP at all. Similar functionality already exists in the game preventing trial accounts from training certain skills.

Alternatively, and perhaps even easier to implement and more meaningful in terms on in-game economy would be to simply prevent SP to be allocated to train level 1 of any skill. That way a player has to purchase all skillbooks he or she wants.

In addition it could be a combination of the two where a player has to purchase the skillbooks and can not allocate SP to certain skills.

The predominant attitude of the opponents of this idea is that players should not be able to purchase skills because the opponents had to wait for them. As opinion that is perfectly valid, but when it comes to decision making it's irrational.

What would be much more valuable to the discussion is to think about tangible, rather than assumed, drawbacks of allowing SP purchases and ways to address those, just like Heroltior did.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.02 21:00:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos
To all those who say "OMG the sandbox balance will be upset" tell me how do you feel about a character sale coming with the ability to change your name, appearance, and reset all your skillpoints so they can be reallocated? Nothing new would be introduced into the sandbox, the balance would remain, right? Riiiiight?



Are you arguing for something other than buying SPs now?

Humpink Omaristos
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:09:00 - [157]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Humpink Omaristos
To all those who say "OMG the sandbox balance will be upset" tell me how do you feel about a character sale coming with the ability to change your name, appearance, and reset all your skillpoints so they can be reallocated? Nothing new would be introduced into the sandbox, the balance would remain, right? Riiiiight?



Are you arguing for something other than buying SPs now?

Negative.
Nice way to avoid answering the question though. You are one of the most vocal people in this thread about not adding things to the sandbox because it upsets the balance. The above doesn't upset the balance. So do go ahead and answer the question.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.02 23:39:00 - [158]
 

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos
Originally by: Adunh Slavy


Are you arguing for something other than buying SPs now?

Negative.
Nice way to avoid answering the question though. You are one of the most vocal people in this thread about not adding things to the sandbox because it upsets the balance. The above doesn't upset the balance. So do go ahead and answer the question.



What I see is you changing the subject. Why? If you are not arguing something different, what is the intent of the question? Are we supposed to waste time chasing your straw men and your red herrings around?

Are you arguing for something other than buying SPs now?


Tex Walker
Posted - 2011.07.03 00:11:00 - [159]
 

These remedials can endlessly infer whatever they want in regards to your proposal Humpink.

FWIW, very well said. You don't need to defend it, it's a logical step in the right direction for increasing revenue for CCP (without breaking the game) which is really what this thread is about. Trolls will troll, regardless of if they even understand what they are trolling about.

Your correct in your assumption that indifference and/or non-response to a heated topic is essentially acceptance.

Older character players won't like it, but too bad really.

This gets my vote. +1

Humpink Omaristos
Posted - 2011.07.03 00:22:00 - [160]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
What I see is you changing the subject. Why? If you are not arguing something different, what is the intent of the question? Are we supposed to waste time chasing your straw men and your red herrings around?

Are you arguing for something other than buying SPs now?

No, I am not, I am merely establishing that your reason for opposing SP purchases is different from your stated reason, which affects the credibility of your argument.

It would have been trivial for you to answer the question, yet you are dancing round and round to avoid answering it because you know exactly that either answer would pin you down into taking a position that you do not want to take.

I am in full support of in principal being able to purchase SP for cash straight from CCP with the understanding that details and limitations need to be worked out.

You made the argument that such sales would upset the sandbox while at the same time stating that character sales through the bazaar are sandbox neutral. I am asking whether you would support character renaming, ability to change appearance, and reset of skillpoints every time a character is sold on the bazaar since according to you all those things would be sandbox neutral.

Zangorus
Posted - 2011.07.03 00:27:00 - [161]
 

its actually about 1mill SP per 17th day.

Zargus
Posted - 2011.07.03 00:54:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Cordo Draken

When you start a new job, you don't slip your perspective boss a $20 and say, "teach me right now how to be a manager, then make me manager." You'd get laughed at. [...] Experience must be gained in time not dollars.



Ok, let's put this in perspective. So, I have to work at my job making widget "X" for 4 years in order to be "better" at making widget "T"? Last I checked, practice made perfect; not linear time[wait] irrespective of effort. Not meaning to cause insult here; think about it in the context of just what you state here. The more you do something at your job, the better you get at it (yes, time[effort]).

An example comes to mind. I can imagine very few folks played SWG here? Anyway, I played a year or so at first release, and they had a multi tiered "If player fires the pistol" and the code looked and saw "If you have 0 points in it, then you have a 1% chance to increase a point; at 20 points, a 10% chance", etc, on until you got full pistol, THEN you could go work on rifle, and gain in that proficiency, etc. That is closer to real life, if we are to use real life examples to compare against. If I played more, then I got more proficient at something quicker than someone else.

No, that does not equal purchasing SP. That wasn't the point. Just pointing out that waiting X time for a SP pool to fill is not really anything but a game mechanic to give a player a means of having something to look forward to. That put everyone on the same playing field of "everyone has to wait the same time to get X skill". Problem isn't on a 1:1 basis. The problem more relates to how CCP gets more players interested in the game. Like it or lump it (me included), CCP has to do things that we aren't going to always agree with in order to attract more business. There is always fall out, and negative response; but those margins don't (hopefully) compare to the positives. That is the gamble that CCP has to take, and make.

As an aside, FWIW, SWG finally closes it's doors this Dec for making a catastrophic game mechanics change. They lost all the major guilds/player base of the old-timers over the last 2 years, and didn't manage to attract new players. They tried to compete with WoW.

Originally by: Cordo Draken

You're a vet and you still don't get it.



Or, perhaps vets have given this some serious thoughts, and are trying to look at both sides of the argument, and find too many pros, and not enough cons. We talk it out, and if some good rationale shows up to support how the negatives would be permanent in nature, rather than temporary influx of balance changes, then sure, I'd be persuaded more to the negative view.

Originally by: Cordo Draken

Admit that you just want to cheat... You've cheated in every game you've owned and are ****ed you have to wait like everyone else. I pity you and everyone else like you.

Tl;dr - Not Supported!



Harsh, and emotional response. Some of us like the concept of SP sales, but not outright "here, buy bazillions of SP for $1" kinda thing. I am talking about severely regulated, limited in scope means of jump-starting n00bs into a Drake, at most sort of thing. Then, charge them an arm and a leg to do it. Give them something that closes the gap a little so my buds aren't so annoyed as to walk away. But, give them more than just enough to hobble in a cheap T1 frig. Give them a chance to spend serious major bucks (years worth of SP, costs a years worth of dollars; limit on "can't spend purchased SP on /this/ skill regulations)

I can imagine in some folks eyes, your statement then applies to everyone who buys PLEX for ISK infusions? Or, the Bazaar high SP char purchases? They cheated the system by having a high SP toon insta-grat for play, or whatever.

Aeropride
Posted - 2011.07.03 01:14:00 - [163]
 

Edited by: Aeropride on 03/07/2011 01:16:01
Originally by: Mr LaForge
You can already do this by buying PLEX and selling it for enough ISK to buy a character.


except buying SP gives you 100% control of where it goes. You also get the benifits of choosing how the characters name and looks. Buying SP outright is the superior choice.

Laurence Pinkitin
Posted - 2011.07.03 01:29:00 - [164]
 

Edited by: Laurence Pinkitin on 03/07/2011 01:38:44
Edited by: Laurence Pinkitin on 03/07/2011 01:32:59
Originally by: Navarone Medion
I wasn't debating implants so don't be cute. I was talking about direct SP sales.

Implants, viable but outright SP sales are idiotic. You can feel free to debate this with me but even you will have to admit unless your clueless it's a slap in the face of long time players. Think before talking. This topic was not about implants, it was about selling SP outright.


Slap in the face of long time vets? Hardly. They are too busy busting balls in null making tons of isk and are playing for free.

ANyway the whole time based skilling(the biggest reason for lack of sub retention) is just to milk as much money as possible out of the game. IN the grand sceme of things they would have made more money if they sped up the time to catch up to 6+month players like every other mmo does.

Zephy Russ
Posted - 2011.07.03 02:56:00 - [165]
 

Arguing on the internet may be like the special olympics, but it's still pretty fun.

Ok, Let's do this! *psyched*

Quote:
By that logic, those pilots who have 100+ mil SP would all be quitting EVE because it's not worth playing anymore since they can fly all there is to fly.

It takes several decades to learn all there is to learn and fly all there is to fly. It doesn't matter how long you play, there's always something else to train for and try. Many people are so rich in isk that they could very likely max out every skill before they run out of cash, and those that aren't that rich can still get all the important ones they want. But again, why should we let them skip to exactly what they want without properly experiencing the game first? This game requires a specific mindset, and the players have to fit the game, not the other way around. That's the way it always has been, and that's why I supported giving them a reasonable pool of skillpoints to spend to get started rather than being able to pay your way past the oldest vet.

Such a pool would decrease the barrier of entry while at the same time determining if the player has the correct mindset. EVE is a niche game, altering it to cater specifically for mainstream players will just alienate a lot of the old playerbase. Cosmetically it's not as dramatic as the SWG NGE, but they made big changes to the foundations of the sandbox too, and look where that got them.

Quote:
To all those who say "OMG the sandbox balance will be upset" tell me how do you feel about a character sale coming with the ability to change your name, appearance, and reset all your skillpoints so they can be reallocated? Nothing new would be introduced into the sandbox, the balance would remain, right? Riiiiight?

This is irrelevant to the argument, but I'll address it anyway: Another reason why the playerbase as a whole accepts character transfers is that you often can't get exactly what you want with them, so there is a price for taking a shortcut, namely that you may be able to have another face, but you're always branded by your name and the choice of SP that came before.

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.07.03 03:25:00 - [166]
 

Dear Humpink Omaristos.

You have outright dismissed the general attitude of the player base, and circumvented any argument made against your idea by simply calling them "shortsighted" or telling the people they are lying to themselves.



So allow me to present my side of the argument:


You are a stupid man and this is a stupid idea.


Hope I've helped, no need to reply, because much like you there is nothing that can be said to change my mind.

Fortunately, my mind doesn't have to be changed, this isn't in the game, it hasn't been in the game, and it won't be in the game (No I don't care what you say, sales of alts don't count, we're back to the part where you are stupid, shut up, no one cares).

Perhaps theres another game you're looking for, since this one doesn't suit your tastes.

Humpink Omaristos
Posted - 2011.07.03 03:27:00 - [167]
 

Edited by: Humpink Omaristos on 03/07/2011 03:32:12
Originally by: Zephy Russ
Quote:
By that logic, those pilots who have 100+ mil SP would all be quitting EVE because it's not worth playing anymore since they can fly all there is to fly.

It takes several decades to learn all there is to learn and fly all there is to fly. It doesn't matter how long you play, there's always something else to train for and try.

Correct me if I am wrong. Now your argument is that those who play the game for PvP and have maxxed their skills for the ships they want to fly get some sort of sense of accomplishment from continuing to train industry skills?

Why don't you just go ahead and admit that your reasoning that having high SP removes the sense of playing EVE doesn't follow. People play the game for whatever their reasons are but the passive feature of unattended gaining of skillpoints isn't close to the a reason for many if not most.

Originally by: Zephy Russ
But again, why should we let them skip to exactly what they want without properly experiencing the game first?

You say waiting for a few years is proper, I say that it isn't. See where we are at with that? The term "proper" has no real meaning because it is 100% subjective.

My answer to your question is 1) because if implemented sensibly it will result in a larger player base hence more people to play with and more monthly income for CCP and 2) because they will pay for it (also more one time income for CCP).


Originally by: Grath Telkin
we're back to the part where you are stupid, shut up, no one cares


You cared enough to reply. Looks like I got a rise out of you without even trying. Thanks for bumping this thread.

Sabre Tek
Posted - 2011.07.03 03:53:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: MorliDots22
Sabre Tek is right, it happens everyday by selling and buying of toons in Character Bazaar. Does it bother anyone ? No. So why the hell SP for PLEX bother you ? Let the players have their freedom.

The purchase of SP for PLEX will create short cuts across the sandbox in order to overcome the RL impatience of some at the expense of everyone else. You are free to choose to be impatient or not, that however does not give you the right to impose your desires on everyone else. If SP can be purchased for PLEX, everyone will purchase SP for PLEX, most everyone will be required to purchase SP for PLEX to maintain their position in the pecking order that is society. The weights upon the governor will have been removed.

As for the consequences, you do not care. That is not freedom. That is greed.



So your scared of what more high level players joining the game would have on the economy?

The game and economy would adjust naturally and fluidly as its done everytime new content is added. If less T1 ships were built maybe a glut in those happens and so people take them off the market reprocess them and build more T2 ships. but it wouldn't all happen instantly any ways.

You could give everyone 100mill sp and the economy would be just fine, why? because Eve is full of 1000's of players that will find every avenue for profit and they alone can rebalance any change very quickly.

CCP only made $5 million profit last year, that's a joke for the size of company they are. They are developing 2 more games sure but a fall of like 40,000 subscribers and they are in the RED. I fully support anything that makes CCP more money and helps them gain new players that will stay grow and pay Eve monthly. Real money for SP does just that and the only way that Eve has any chance of getting anywhere near 1 million active subscribers is changing the skill progression in game for new players or making them pay for Skill points.

Zephy Russ
Posted - 2011.07.03 04:06:00 - [169]
 

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos
Edited by: Humpink Omaristos on 03/07/2011 03:32:12
Correct me if I am wrong. Now your argument is that those who play the game for PvP and have maxxed their skills for the ships they want to fly get some sort of sense of accomplishment from continuing to train industry skills?

Yes.

Quote:
Why don't you just go ahead and admit that your reasoning that having high SP removes the sense of playing EVE doesn't follow.

No.

Quote:
People play the game for whatever their reasons are but the passive feature of unattended gaining of skillpoints isn't close to the a reason for many if not most.

Never said it was a reason, if anything it is a moderator to stop people from experiencing all the content there is to experience at one time.
Quote:

Originally by: Zephy Russ
But again, why should we let them skip to exactly what they want without properly experiencing the game first?

You say waiting for a few years is proper, I say that it isn't. See where we are at with that? The term "proper" has no real meaning because it is 100% subjective.

The term "proper" is also irrelevant to the argument. Removed, the argument still has the same overall impact.

Quote:
My answer to your question is 1) because if implemented sensibly it will result in a larger player base hence more people to play with and more monthly income for CCP and 2) because they will pay for it (also more one time income for CCP).

For how long?


Quote:
Originally by: Grath Telkin
we're back to the part where you are stupid, shut up, no one cares


You cared enough to reply. Looks like I got a rise out of you without even trying. Thanks for bumping this thread.

I agree with Grath. You are the shortsighted, deluded one.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.03 04:24:00 - [170]
 

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
What I see is you changing the subject. Why? If you are not arguing something different, what is the intent of the question? Are we supposed to waste time chasing your straw men and your red herrings around?

Are you arguing for something other than buying SPs now?


No, I am not, I am merely establishing that your reason for opposing SP purchases is different from your stated reason, which affects the credibility of your argument.



Oh I see, you were trying to play little games, and now you're going to try and tell me what my arguments were, aren't you?


Originally by: Humpink Omaristos

It would have been trivial for you to answer the question, yet you are dancing round and round to avoid answering it because you know exactly that either answer would pin you down into taking a position that you do not want to take.



Yep, pretty much as suspected. I didn't take any position because your little gambit was transparent. Moving the goal posts around is against the rules. Do try to keep up.

Oh ... you're doing a fine job of establishing a lack of credibility, it just happens to be your self to whom you do it.


Originally by: Humpink Omaristos

I am in full support of in principal being able to purchase SP for cash straight from CCP with the understanding that details and limitations need to be worked out.



I'm against it, there are no details to be worked out.

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos

You made the argument that such sales would upset the sandbox while at the same time stating that character sales through the bazaar are sandbox neutral. I am asking whether you would support character renaming, ability to change appearance, and reset of skillpoints every time a character is sold on the bazaar since according to you all those things would be sandbox neutral.



And I refused to answer you and I still refuse to answer you. Your behavior in this thread has marked you as anything other than a honest debtor. Do not now be upset that your behavior haunts you.

Humpink Omaristos
Posted - 2011.07.03 05:30:00 - [171]
 

Originally by: Zephy Russ
Originally by: Humpink Omaristos
Edited by: Humpink Omaristos on 03/07/2011 03:32:12
Correct me if I am wrong. Now your argument is that those who play the game for PvP and have maxxed their skills for the ships they want to fly get some sort of sense of accomplishment from continuing to train industry skills?

Yes.

It's just that you don't get to tell someone who pays for entertainment which way that person is supposed to enjoy that entertainment. That makes no sense any which way one would look at it.

Originally by: Zephy Russ
Quote:
My answer to your question is 1) because if implemented sensibly it will result in a larger player base hence more people to play with and more monthly income for CCP and 2) because they will pay for it (also more one time income for CCP).

For how long?

In terms of income for CCP that's irrelevant since they pay up front for the skills at a premium over those who acquired them over time.

Stats read elsewhere have shown that new players tend to not make it past 6 months and I will go out on a limb by saying that it has nothing to do with the monthly subscription or the community but everything with the fact that a player who starts today is bound to be frustrated between the two choices she has, pay to wait or pay to buy second hand.

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Humpink Omaristos

You made the argument that such sales would upset the sandbox while at the same time stating that character sales through the bazaar are sandbox neutral. I am asking whether you would support character renaming, ability to change appearance, and reset of skillpoints every time a character is sold on the bazaar since according to you all those things would be sandbox neutral.



And I refused to answer you and I still refuse to answer you.

Of course you do, no answer necessary, it's obvious what's going on. If anything I find this amusing because here you were with your pseudo intellectual think of the children ... erm ... sandbox attitude when in reality you are just like most everyone else in here who is opposed because they don't want someone else to have something instantly that they had to wait for. I almost feel bad for having you called out like that, but oh well, life goes on.

in CCP's latest PR stunt they said the following:
Originally by: CCP
It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.

The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.

Notice how it says that they will not introduce anything but vanity items for the NeX store? Crafty, isn't it. That paragraph is specific to the NeX store, not to EVE in general.

The second part is even more telling. Given that PLEX are already being sold CCP clearly does not define the cash for ISK as an unfair advantage. When I read that dev blog my smile was bigger than Jokers. It obviously is an advantage that one can pay cash to get ISK but CCP doesn't find it unfair because the opportunity presented applies to all players equally. You can buy ISK or you can grind it.

SP won't be sold via the NeX store, they will just put it into account management to get around contradicting their own statement. Then they will come out and say that SP for cash won't be an unfair advantage because everyone has the option to pay for SP, wait for SP, or spend ISK for SP via bazaar.

The latest dev blog is bringing us one step closer to SP for cash. ;)

Toxic Raioin
Posted - 2011.07.03 05:50:00 - [172]
 

Edited by: Toxic Raioin on 03/07/2011 06:05:08
Originally by: Zephy Russ
Originally by: Humpink Omaristos
Edited by: Humpink Omaristos on 03/07/2011 03:32:12

Never said it was a reason, if anything it is a moderator to stop people from experiencing all the content there is to experience at one time.


The term "proper" is also irrelevant to the argument. Removed, the argument still has the same overall impact.


For how long?




1. I agree there should be a buffer but only a small one. This game gets waaaaaay better the more stuff you can do. If you ask Vets to go back to being one dimensional the overwhelming answer would be NEEEEEEEEEVVVVEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRR!

2. I would argue the ones most likely to buy are current players and players who went WTF? at the slow skilling up process, not the game itself. Some may return if buying SP was implemented but it doesnt solve the problem at hand. Most MMO gamers are older with jobs and kids. CCP needs to find a way to get that money without asking for more money. They need to log on and feel like they accomplished something WHILE! playing not while they are logged off. Skills play at very big part of that. My suggestions would be reduce skill book clutter("zip" skill books that are redundant such as the armor resist skill books) and reduce most skill book time multipliers. Ugly ships aside EVE is a very fun game if you painfully stick with it but the skilling process is too big of a turn off for alot of folks with money to spend. Being a game for masochists is good and all except when you are trying to make money.

3. Doesnt matter. People who enjoy eve will still be playing and those that didnt provided CCP a little bit of much need extra income.

DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2011.07.03 06:14:00 - [173]
 

No on skill points for $$$.

It is an exploit which will break the game.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.03 06:16:00 - [174]
 

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos

Of course you do, no answer necessary, it's obvious what's going on. If anything I find this amusing because here you were with your pseudo intellectual think of the children ... erm ... sandbox attitude when in reality you are just like most everyone else in here who is opposed because they don't want someone else to have something instantly that they had to wait for. I almost feel bad for having you called out like that, but oh well, life goes on.



I never gave you my answer one way or the other. You have no idea what it is. You are making assumptions because it fits your preconceived notions. You just want to insult, tell people what they think and play your little straw man games. Sorry kiddo, but is you who are getting called out. Nice try though.

BTW, when did you stop beating your wife?

As for your assumption about SP for cash because of the wording, you must really be quite desperate for some emotional points for your little ego to try that. Feel free to get your hopes and dreams all stirred up, the sooner you are frustrated and back to whatever theme park you came from, the happier you'll be.

Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
Posted - 2011.07.03 06:21:00 - [175]
 




*HARVEST BRAIN*
- Biomasses a character and making half of the SP availible to your other characters.


This way no SP is created out of thin air.


For example:

I buy a 120million SP character, I harvest his brain and the character is destroyed. I then get 60m sp to distribute on my other characters on that account.

Toxic Raioin
Posted - 2011.07.03 06:23:00 - [176]
 

Originally by: DeMichael Crimson
No on skill points for $$$.

It is an exploit which will break the game.


New and old players buy characters of the bazaar already. Buying SP outright gives you better control of it and other stuff. So your point is irrelevant.

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.03 06:52:00 - [177]
 

So, Humpink Omaristos, I take it you're too much of a coward to make this suggestion by posting with your main character? Figures.

Let's face it, this is a laughably stupid idea. For the umpteenth time, if you feel entitled to an advantage in this game because you have piles of money, then buy PLEX, sell it, buy a character like everybody else. There is a deliberate, well thought out reason for this - CCP makes money from the PLEX you buy, the guy who buys the PLEX from you for ISK benefits, and the guy whose character you buy benefits. Do you know what massively multiplayer means?

I agree with Grath - you're an idiot for suggesting this.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.03 06:53:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: Toxic Raioin
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson
No on skill points for $$$.

It is an exploit which will break the game.

New and old players buy characters of the bazaar already. Buying SP outright gives you better control of it and other stuff. So your point is irrelevant.

It's the PLEX vs. AURUM argument. In the case of selling a character, no extra SP is being injected into the EVE economy (in the broadest sense of the term). A character's ownership (= license to use, to be precise) is basically the only thing that changes hands. In the case of buying SP, however, you create SP from thin air; essentially -- just like running a money printing press -- causing inflation (of the value of SP, in this case). And it will mean a great disturbance in The Force, game-balance wise.

So, a big resounding NO to this proposal.

Toxic Raioin
Posted - 2011.07.03 07:24:00 - [179]
 

Edited by: Toxic Raioin on 03/07/2011 07:26:09
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Toxic Raioin
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson
No on skill points for $$$.

It is an exploit which will break the game.

New and old players buy characters of the bazaar already. Buying SP outright gives you better control of it and other stuff. So your point is irrelevant.

It's the PLEX vs. AURUM argument. In the case of selling a character, no extra SP is being injected into the EVE economy (in the broadest sense of the term). A character's ownership (= license to use, to be precise) is basically the only thing that changes hands. In the case of buying SP, however, you create SP from thin air; essentially -- just like running a money printing press -- causing inflation (of the value of SP, in this case). And it will mean a great disturbance in The Force, game-balance wise.

So, a big resounding NO to this proposal.


Question The game is already badly unbalanced due to general ship issues and a large portion of players with loads of sp. If anything it would slightly balance it.

Zephy Russ
Posted - 2011.07.03 07:54:00 - [180]
 

Originally by: Toxic Raioin

Question The game is already badly unbalanced due to general ship issues and a large portion of players with loads of sp. If anything it would slightly balance it.


You're implying that players with loads of SP are an imbalance to the game and have it accepted without thought, get it under the radar, so to speak. Not gonna work.


Pages: first : previous : ... 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 ... : last (11)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only