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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena
Posted - 2011.06.30 21:19:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: MorliDots22
Let's look at the situation through "positive attitude":
What is a MT in the "demographic" mean?

This is a "social" layer of players who are so spoiled in the real world, they spend real money on any garbage in the virtual.
This is not good? Maybe not right (especially when it gives the donators Advantages in game).
Ie There are hundreds of players who are bad guys that have spent and will spend the bucks ... used because they spend having fun.

How behave CCP in this situation?

Can be dealt with or given. But can it be eradicated ? That means money in the hands of bad guys swim to other bad guys - RMTsellers that sell suits, earned by farming, Boating, "Taxes", moons, etc.
And what to do CCP?
It creates conditions for donators to pour their money into CCP directly, because:
- CCP can sell them cheaper suits (in principle, yes, can arrange this)
- CCP can sell their claims safer (through secure and "righteous" / formal tools)
- CCP can sell their claims with less hassle (no bent tricks associated with the fear of ebay be banned)
- CCP can offer for these bucks more and unique products (monocles / thongs, and maybe even a personal emblem on the tongue (well, maybe in the future it will also become available)

You can of course greatly wonder how it will affect the gameplay simple Pilots (may affect .. maybe not .. Maybe the game will unorganized mass-dude Titans? Yeah, maybe it's not good ... And you may receive an unorganized mass of reindeer machariels ? Yeah, and it may even be fun .. Some Frozen corpse will now be a monocle? Oh, what to do with them ...: facepalm:)

Duc, can cause the other?
Let's answer honestly, who's suffered from the fact that CCP creates the conditions for a simple and angry putting bucks of donators in CCP pockets for those who are too tight? With whom CCP start to compete for the bucks of crazy rich players?
Which, of course, "was, is and will be" according to CU. And their business is "merchandising" was, is and will (of course).
With whom CCP begins to redistribute the (the market) flow of dollars, is thrown from ancient, centuries?
Who is this "wronged competitor" who "trod the corn?"
Think.
Think.
"Sand is running out";)
By the power of negative energy, and throw out the hysteria butthurt - notably that it is some "vociferous" competitor;).
Who thought of - can not continue to think and play safely.
: Lol:
Well, replacing a "seller claims the" other "seller's claims." And what?
Well there is one seller claims to fashion goods "vanity" like a monocle, and the other does not. And What?
Well donators give their bucks not "under the table" to ebay but openly to CCP on the other bit rate. And what?
The world turned upside down? (Duc He was, is and will be given support with!)
No, the market processing. A hue and cry, as if doomsday had begun.
: Lol:
Something like that ...

I had a hard time reading this- my brain was trying to revolt the whole way. In fact, I think it succeeded because I still have no idea what you were saying here. If you are not a native English speaker, fine, but you seemed to use decent English earlier.

Also, stop clipping the first part of the quote forum tags- it breaks the forum formatting.

Mardock Daye
Posted - 2011.06.30 22:24:00 - [92]
 

Quote:
In reality silence means acceptance. Those who oppose MT are on the defensive thus they have to be vocal. Those who support MT don't have to do anything because they are with CCP's view, they don't have to emorage for MT because MT is already happening. Simple really.



Not true: The majority of people will protest as soon as they are facing the problem even when warned about it several times before. The main reason why most protesters were silent until ccp implemented the shop.

This means you will get a whole new group of protesters when CCP starts implementing gamechanging items like ships, modules or sp.


Of topic:

About the new player sp problem: I think it's a great idea to make a couple of epic arc missions in high and lowsec with which you can earn X amounts of sp if you complete them.

Perhaps a new storyline, but the old one would be great as well. Fun for new players, fun for old players.

Gr Mardock

Sinikka Huiputti
Posted - 2011.06.30 23:03:00 - [93]
 

thing with selling character instead of just skill points is that when character changes hands, total amount of skill points in game doesn't go up.

if you could use inflated isk to get plexes and then lol-aurum and more skillpoints you'd suddenly lot of titans whateva, instead of nicely spread sp among noobs. (no not boobs, noobs)



Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.30 23:08:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos

Obviously you would like to argue that those who don't care are opposed because that fits your desires and your view of things.



You going to pretend you're behaving differently?

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos

In reality silence means acceptance.



In reality silence means silence. In your imaginations it means you're right.

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos

I think the argument in support of MT has been presented in a clear and logical fashion. ... you will not biomass your toon and walk away.



This foolish canard? If people are passionate enough to rage, they are not going to throw away their character to satisfy the banalities of you and your ilk.

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos

No matter how you and others will try to spin that, CCP and those in support of MT will ultimately win whether CCP will sell SP or not. I'll be smiling thinking about that every time I see the login screen.



So because CCP will do vanity items, and Aurum is here to stay, as they have stated publicly, you conclude they will indeed sell SP? LOL. And you claim to have logical arguments. Laughable.

MorliDots22
Posted - 2011.06.30 23:18:00 - [95]
 



I had a hard time reading this- my brain was trying to revolt the whole way. In fact, I think it succeeded because I still have no idea what you were saying here. If you are not a native English speaker, fine, but you seemed to use decent English earlier.

Also, stop clipping the first part of the quote forum tags- it breaks the forum formatting.


With Incarna and "MT" CCP simply take part of the moneycake that belonged to RMT sellers. Lets take an example :

You can spent 20$ for ingame needs :

1. You can buy a machariel via PLEX for PvP, loose it and forget the money.
2. You can buy a golden emblem for your ships which is not destructable and can be used all over again

If you choose 2. will you spend additional 20 $ for a machariel ?

We all driven by the wish to express ourselfes. Before Incarna we could only buy ships and characters to be special. Now we can also buy those items. This items are only sold by CCP. So RMT ebay guys loose a part of their profit which now goes to CCP . So in fact this "MT" is good, it drives out part of RMT sellers.

To completely stop RMT CCP is in fact doing the right thing. Those "MT" item can only be bought via PLEX. Thus means the need for Plex will rise. Thus means the cost for PLEX will rise. RMT with ISK will stop when a official price will be 1b ISK for 1 PLEX. Proof:

Now 1 PLEX cost 15$ - 0,375b ISK official price
? PLEX cost 20$ - 1b ISK RMT, Ebay price

If CCP succeed with their ingame shop and implement also PLEX for SP we will have:

1 PLEX - 15$ - 1b ISK official
? PLEX - 20$ - 1b ISK RMT ebay

Ergo CCP is on the right way - to rise the PLEX cost with all strenght. At this point players who bought black ISK before will stop that because the official price in real money will be lower than a RMT ebay price.





Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.30 23:58:00 - [96]
 

While SP for real money is a bad thing, there is, however, a reality few are willing to accept: EVE won't last forever. The EVE skillpoints system simply doesn't scale well over time. Which is to say, over time, the chance of there being enough time left to try and do the same as other have done so far, will decrease. Until EVE's projected lifetime-left will be only a few years or less.

For instance, I'm looking at a full Minmatar cross-training plan for my alt. Duration? Almost 2 years. Will EVE still have 2 years left? And how about when I ask this again 2 years from now? See my point?

So, while I do not support this proposal, it might be a good idea for CCP to start looking into modest ways to allow training to speed up a bit (for everyone); like maybe 2x neural remaps a year or so.

Shaira Skatan
Serenity Prime
Cascade Probable
Posted - 2011.07.01 00:44:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos
Originally by: Shaira Skatan
Besides which, if that's the case, that the overwhelming majority of players are either not opposed or don't care one way or another, then it goes without saying that the vocal minority who do care enough to participate in the forums should have their say heard, respected, and heeded.
Since as every person has theoretically the same "weight" of voice in Eve Online, by means of the CSM and by means of the forums, that majority who apparently don't care, are essentially opting out of making their voice heard, so therefore their unheard "vote" doesn't have meaning, as their "vote" is synonymous with the concept of "null".


Obviously you would like to argue that those who don't care are opposed because that fits your desires and your view of things.



Wrong. You misinterpret my message.
I said that since they do not care, the rest who do care should be heard and heeded.
Why? Because EVE is a "Deliberately Democratic" society. And that is an officially stated goal of CCP.

So please read the CSM White Paper written by CCP before attempting to argue why the opinions of the CSM, whose role it is to represent the playerbase, should not have their highest priority requests met (of which MT is one of those):

The Council of Stellar Management - Implementation of Deliberative, Democratically Elected, Council in Eve.

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos

There's just this minor issue that any kind of votes are just like online petitions, completely meaningless because they hold no real power.



Please run for CSM election membership before arguing that our player elected council do not hold the opinion of the playerbase at large.

Their vote counts, because CCP said it does. Again I refer above linked document.

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos

I think the argument in support of MT has been presented in a clear and logical fashion.



Please show data that supports an overwhelming opposition to the views of the CSM who were voted for by, and thus represent the playerbase.


Originally by: Humpink Omaristos

What gives me solace is that your $15/month will pay to support MT implementation whether you agree with it or not. Regardless of all the forum warrioring, you and others are doing on here, you will not biomass your toon and walk away.



Wrong.
But first off, I do support vanity-MT and PLEX, because that revenue supports CCP's development and running costs and provides further profit. But you're wrong in saying I'll continue to support them regardless.

I have unsubscribed all three of my accounts (one of which has already expired), and they will remain that way until CCP clarify their stated promise to never have non-vanity MT. Many others have also unsubscribed, or are planning to when CCP make the wrong decision:

Keeping tally of unsubbed players

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos

No matter how you and others will try to spin that, CCP and those in support of MT will ultimately win whether CCP will sell SP or not. I'll be smiling thinking about that every time I see the login screen.


If you understood the history of EVE Online well enough, you might understand the educated opinion (yes I mean opinion until and unless proof arrives) that the launch of CQ may in fact have been The Day that EVE Online Died.

This opinion might be wrong, and I do truly hope for the sake of CCP's several hundred employees in something like 4 different countries that CCP does survive and prospers. But I certainly won't be funding a game that was converted from a sub-based to MT-based business model.

CCP can still restore their trust and respect with the playerbase.

Mourn
Assisted Homicide
Dark Phoenix Rising.
Posted - 2011.07.01 00:56:00 - [98]
 

I would be completely against this, it would destroy one of the main hooks that keep a lot of the older players in the game, wreck the character bizarre making everyones toons worthless and also bring about further ingame advantage for those that can pay.(plex allready does that..)
Also new players should have to work their way up in eve and learn to play the game, id be all for upping the starting xp to say 5 mil, but the idea of someone just starting out and with enough plex/aurum be able to fly the likes or a carrier in a week would just be gamebreaking and would destroy any immersive effect the game has to offer.

Shaira Skatan
Serenity Prime
Cascade Probable
Posted - 2011.07.01 02:08:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
... The EVE skillpoints system simply doesn't scale well over time [...] it might be a good idea for CCP to start looking into modest ways to allow training to speed up a bit (for everyone); like maybe 2x neural remaps a year or so.


I have been thinking for a long time now, that EVE should have game mechanics that explicitly award the player with small yet noticable amounts of SP, simply for *playing* the game. Since at the moment, players who actually *play* get only the same SP-generation capabilities as subscribers who only log-on to change skills.

To clarify, time-based SP generation should continue in its current form, but you should also get "bonus" SP for actually playing the game. Not sitting around in a station mind you, but for killing pirates, participating in the EVE economy, researching and invention with BP's, mining, performing exploration tasks, taking part in Incursions, etc etc etc, in a fashion not too dis-similar to many other popular MMO's.

It would take a bit of work to perfect so it wasn't too easy to "game" it for excessive boosting (maybe include a system of diminished-boosting-results), but I think a good balance could be achieved.

This would have to be a free addition to game mechanics, with no MT involved. That way the old and new players get the best of both worlds.

You'd be not only encouraged to play more often (and I suspect active players tend to encourage their friends to play too, more so than inactive players), but the new players can feel like their actions are boosting their growth while logged on (thus can get into battleships faster for example), but SP's continue to generate as usual even while logged off. The old "bitter-vets" (loyal long term paying members who made EVE what it is) get to maintain their SP-status for as long as they remain subbed and play the game, and they would get SP-boosts just like everyone else, keeping it "fair".

I suspect the biggest turn-off for new players is the raw RL time it takes to be able to do bigger and better things. But playing the game could and possibly should boost the rate at which you grow, just without the growth ending when you log off like with "lesser" MMO's.

I don't know if this has been suggested before, so I apologise if such a mechanic has been debated (and shot-down) previously.

zus
Posted - 2011.07.01 02:37:00 - [100]
 

NO NO NONONOONONONOONONONON WAY NO Big spoiler

Humpink Omaristos
Posted - 2011.07.01 04:13:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Humpink Omaristos

No matter how you and others will try to spin that, CCP and those in support of MT will ultimately win whether CCP will sell SP or not. I'll be smiling thinking about that every time I see the login screen.



So because CCP will do vanity items, and Aurum is here to stay, as they have stated publicly, you conclude they will indeed sell SP? LOL. And you claim to have logical arguments. Laughable.

Initially your rage prevented you from following reason, now your zeal is messing with your comprehensive reading skills, how else can one explain that my "whether CCP will sell SP or not" is magically read by you as "they will indeed sell SP". Rolling Eyes

Originally by: Shaira Skatan
Why? Because EVE is a "Deliberately Democratic" society. And that is an officially stated goal of CCP.

So please read the CSM White Paper written by CCP before attempting to argue why the opinions of the CSM, whose role it is to represent the playerbase, should not have their highest priority requests met (of which MT is one of those):

The Council of Stellar Management - Implementation of Deliberative, Democratically Elected, Council in Eve.

Since you are basing your entire argument on that paper let me be the first to tell you, albeit belated, that the CSM has been a farce from Day 1.

I, as many others, have been with EVE long before the CSM even came about and every single decision CCP made that the CSM opposed was implemented anyway. So please, you can keep dreaming of the CSM playing any role in the decision making process at CCP but that's all it is, a dream. Nevermind the fact that, again, the overwhelming majority of the playerbase does not even care about the CSM as reflected by total vote count.

Putting some paper CCP wrote front and center is an appeal to authority, which is a logical fallacy. You want to make an argument, then make it, citing some meaningless whitepaper doesn't support your cause.

Originally by: Shaira Skatan

I have unsubscribed all three of my accounts (one of which has already expired), and they will remain that way until CCP clarify their stated promise to never have non-vanity MT. Many others have also unsubscribed, or are planning to when CCP make the wrong decision:

Keeping tally of unsubbed players

Just LOL.
Do you know how many people posted "OMGWTFBBQ 14 accounts unsubbed" when the mom nerf came through? What about the carrier nerf? What about all the other nerfs over time where hordes of players raged on the forums for a whole week how many hundreds and thousands of accounts unsubbed ....

Yet here we are and the concurrent player count has been stable over time. Talk is cheap, biomassing isn't. There is no viable alternative to EVE if one wants to keep playing a game like it which is why all the ragers will continue to pay.


Originally by: Shaira Skatan
CCP can still restore their trust and respect with the playerbase.

Hollower words have never been spoken. They don't need your trust or respect, they only need your money which you will continue to give them. EVE is a service, just like any other service you consume on a daily basis. Do you trust and respect your utility company, or do you simply take what they provide and pay for it? What about your ISP? I am sure at the very least half the readership has a ****ty opinion of their ISP or cell provider, no trust and no respect, yet they keep paying. So please, idealism has no place in the real world.

Shaira Skatan
Serenity Prime
Cascade Probable
Posted - 2011.07.01 05:50:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Shaira Skatan on 01/07/2011 05:56:30
Edited by: Shaira Skatan on 01/07/2011 05:56:06
Originally by: Humpink Omaristos
... you can keep dreaming of the CSM playing any role in the decision making process at CCP but that's all it is, a dream.



Thankyou, you made my point precisely. Since if CCP continue to state black and white policy and promises yet continue *not* to honor those promises, then they will lose supporters like myself.

That's why the CSM paper is fundamental to the point of the argument. They say one thing, yet appear to be doing another. It would be fine with an unreleased game, but not for one that has an 8 year old history.

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos
Originally by: Shaira Skatan
CCP can still restore their trust and respect with the playerbase.

Hollower words have never been spoken. They don't need your trust or respect, they only need your money which you will continue to give them.


Wrong yet again. It is your words that couldn't be hollower.

But allow me to reference the alleged words of CCP Hilmar: "I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say".

So there you have it.

As stated, I have made my action, and that was to unsubscribe my accounts. Those accounts will remain that way if CCP don't come through with an official statement to uphold or re-enforce their promises regarding MT. And as soon as they do, they'll get my money again. And sure if they then go away and break promises yet again anyway, they'll just have to test out what the consequences are, which hopefully for their employees is to survive and make big profits. There's no denying that there's a risk to be tested though.

A relationship is a two way street. When one party breaks the bond, the other party loses interest. The concept is fairly simple, so I'm not sure why you're so convinced that I and many others will continue to give money to a company that doesn't have our interests at heart. I'll just go play another game that suits my play-style better.

It is only fair to allow CCP the chance to restore their respect and trust with us.

I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what CCP do and less of what they say.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.01 06:06:00 - [103]
 

Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 01/07/2011 06:07:09
Originally by: Humpink Omaristos
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Humpink Omaristos

No matter how you and others will try to spin that, CCP and those in support of MT will ultimately win whether CCP will sell SP or not. I'll be smiling thinking about that every time I see the login screen.



So because CCP will do vanity items, and Aurum is here to stay, as they have stated publicly, you conclude they will indeed sell SP? LOL. And you claim to have logical arguments. Laughable.

Initially your rage prevented you from following reason, now your zeal is messing with your comprehensive reading skills, how else can one explain that my "whether CCP will sell SP or not" is magically read by you as "they will indeed sell SP".



We all know what you were implying, you can not hide behind your intentions, it just doesn't work. Your little clause "whether CCP will sell SP or not" does not overshadow the intent of your thread.

Sorry chump, but bull siht doesn't get by on these forums often, don't whine when you get called on it.


Klytie Ulloriaq
Posted - 2011.07.01 06:30:00 - [104]
 

So thats...

400 x 15 dollars

6000 dollars. It sounds like a lot, but it's not. Not when players are paying for two or three accounts at once. I could make that money in about four or five months at my current pay rate.

Besides the impact on the game, where everyone would be flying an officer fit supercarrier, what would be the point in playing anymore?

We work hard, us players, to move forwards in the game. Get used to it, or harden the **** up.

Humpink Omaristos
Posted - 2011.07.01 08:00:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Shaira Skatan
A relationship is a two way street. When one party breaks the bond, the other party loses interest. The concept is fairly simple, so I'm not sure why you're so convinced that I and many others will continue to give money to a company that doesn't have our interests at heart. I'll just go play another game that suits my play-style better.

I am convinced that most people who say on the forum that they cancelled their accounts are not in fact going to quit the game because history has shown this to be true. Over years there were multiple higher profile outrage events with the forum filled with ragequit posts yet the concurrent player count shows that there were no mass-quittings. So either the posters were lying or the server stats are.

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
We all know what you were implying, you can not hide behind your intentions, it just doesn't work. Your little clause "whether CCP will sell SP or not" does not overshadow the intent of your thread.

Sorry chump, but bull siht doesn't get by on these forums often, don't whine when you get called on it.

I wasn't implying anything, I was making my point that your $15/month will be used to get me my microtransactions whether you like it or not. This is independent of whether SP will be offered, other MT items will be offered and it is inevitable that some of those items will be non-vanity items. The writing is on the wall and your money will pay for it.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.01 08:08:00 - [106]
 

Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 01/07/2011 08:08:49
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
We all know what you were implying, you can not hide behind your intentions, it just doesn't work. Your little clause "whether CCP will sell SP or not" does not overshadow the intent of your thread.

Sorry chump, but bull siht doesn't get by on these forums often, don't whine when you get called on it.

Originally by: Humperdink

I wasn't implying anything, I was making my point that your $15/month will be used to get me my microtransactions whether you like it or not. This is independent of whether SP will be offered, other MT items will be offered and it is inevitable that some of those items will be non-vanity items. The writing is on the wall and your money will pay for it.


LOL, look at you tempting to taunt and weasel your way out of your own thread. Grow up. Your $15/month will also pay for micro-transactions, and so long as it stays just vanity and is economy neutral, it doesn't bother me. So please keep bleating and squirming around.

MorliDots22
Posted - 2011.07.01 09:04:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos
Originally by: Shaira Skatan
A relationship is a two way street. When one party breaks the bond, the other party loses interest. The concept is fairly simple, so I'm not sure why you're so convinced that I and many others will continue to give money to a company that doesn't have our interests at heart. I'll just go play another game that suits my play-style better.

I am convinced that most people who say on the forum that they cancelled their accounts are not in fact going to quit the game because history has shown this to be true. Over years there were multiple higher profile outrage events with the forum filled with ragequit posts yet the concurrent player count shows that there were no mass-quittings. So either the posters were lying or the server stats are.

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
We all know what you were implying, you can not hide behind your intentions, it just doesn't work. Your little clause "whether CCP will sell SP or not" does not overshadow the intent of your thread.

Sorry chump, but bull siht doesn't get by on these forums often, don't whine when you get called on it.

I wasn't implying anything, I was making my point that your $15/month will be used to get me my microtransactions whether you like it or not. This is independent of whether SP will be offered, other MT items will be offered and it is inevitable that some of those items will be non-vanity items. The writing is on the wall and your money will pay for it.


Proof that the majority is for "MT" and its good for CCP :

20% of the playerbase are statitistically rich and ready to pay for this service. Those who unsubscribe and even quit are max also 20% of the playerbase. So the rich players will compensate the leaving of poor. Its like a train wich had only 2nd class waggons and now have 1-2 first class waggons. And the big Rest 60 % of the playerbase ? Some of them, about 5 % will spent extra money from time to time for comfort to feel special in game. SO even in this "horrific" scenario should 20% of players quit CCP would still make more profit. I for myself would gladly appreciate SP for PLEX or Aurum. To those who think they will "loose" somehow because of it- get a life, spent more time in RL get a education and good job and then you can also be special.

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.01 09:29:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: MorliDots22

20% of the playerbase are statitistically rich and ready to pay for this service. Those who unsubscribe and even quit are max also 20% of the playerbase. So the rich players will compensate the leaving of poor. Its like a train wich had only 2nd class waggons and now have 1-2 first class waggons. And the big Rest 60 % of the playerbase ? Some of them, about 5 % will spent extra money from time to time for comfort to feel special in game. SO even in this "horrific" scenario should 20% of players quit CCP would still make more profit. I for myself would gladly appreciate SP for PLEX or Aurum. To those who think they will "loose" somehow because of it- get a life, spent more time in RL get a education and good job and then you can also be special.


100% of MorliDots22 got their umbilical cord wrapped around their neck during childbirth causing severe oxygen deprivation.

See I can make up numbers too, but at least I quoted some evidence to back mine up.

Antadark
Gallente
The Black Legionnares
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.07.01 09:45:00 - [109]
 

I am not against MT in EVE, to a certain extent, but this is a horrid idea that would be dangerous to EVE, a game you have to pay to play already. This kind of MT could kill EVE, unlike selling vanity items.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.01 09:53:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: MorliDots22

Proof that the majority is for "MT" and its good for CCP :



The only thing it proves is that you can type the word "proof". Now let's see if you can figure out what the word means.

Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research

Posted - 2011.07.01 10:37:00 - [111]
 

Well, i've moved past 140M SP and I tell you: It's not about Skill Points. You dont win EvE with Skill Points. They arent that important.

If someone wants them bad enough, sure, let them buy them. The joke is on them really. Its just like someone buying a bunch of PLEX to sell for ISK and get a pre-trained account. Sure, they will have a lot of skill points, but no clue what to do with them.

Sabre Tek
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:17:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Qual
Well, i've moved past 140M SP and I tell you: It's not about Skill Points. You dont win EvE with Skill Points. They arent that important.

If someone wants them bad enough, sure, let them buy them. The joke is on them really. Its just like someone buying a bunch of PLEX to sell for ISK and get a pre-trained account. Sure, they will have a lot of skill points, but no clue what to do with them.


Exactly I totally agree sp limits are their to restrict your ship type and modules but once you can fly a ship with the right modules then the real learning and mistakes come in. I today bought a rapier pvp fit, falcon and dramiel and I'll be enjoying piping in the with my Corp over the next few days/weeks trying to learn how to fly them and enjoy them. But right now i have no clue and expect to loose them in short order when not in a bigger gang. Having sp doesn't ruin the game it opens it up. There are always more things to train and perfect. Most people just want to enjoy playing eve how fast and at whatever pace they want and we should let them.

Humpink Omaristos
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:29:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
LOL, look at you tempting to taunt and weasel your way out of your own thread. Grow up. Your $15/month will also pay for micro-transactions, and so long as it stays just vanity and is economy neutral, it doesn't bother me. So please keep bleating and squirming around.

I really do think that you need to work on your reading comprehension skills.
Just for you, since me making this topic didn't give it away for you, I wholeheartedly support microtransactions thus I will happily pay my $15/mo to support their development and introduction.

What amuses me is that your angry $15/mo will support MT and where MT is headed as well even though you don't want that. Even if you quit EVE the microtransactions are here to stay, which will be good for me regardless.

Angst IronShard
Minmatar
Sense of Serendipity
Echoes of Nowhere
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:49:00 - [114]
 

and it's time for the CCP holders to sell their children and a kidney

o7

Aart Vero
Posted - 2011.07.01 18:51:00 - [115]
 

Edited by: Aart Vero on 01/07/2011 22:14:08
Edited by: Aart Vero on 01/07/2011 19:00:05
This thread is probably so interesting to read due to Humpink's reasoning abilities.
It frames the picture of a viking warrior beating through waves of unshaven middle-lower-class workers. However the warrior is starting to lose sight of his edge as well.

All jokes aside, however, it is clear to anyone that spent time reading and thinking about this topic to conclude that those in favour reason with logic and those against reason with "the uncertain future".

As perceived in history, if CCP does implement it, it is to secure their survival and therefore the survival of EVE. All the nay-sayers may do as they please but EVE will never implement anything to cause its demise: no matter how "vocal" the forum is.

If they don't, which suggests their intention in keeping the current loyal subbers that is convinced paying for a skill to train is good gameplay: which creates a decent bond of attachment in the end. That solution seems more stable too than the burst of SP purchase cash.

There is absolutely no reason to theorycraft the doom of markets, imbalance of combat due to new potent (SP-wise) pilots, or any ripples of such. Whatever is implemented players who love this game enough will adjust and so will the sandbox. All we need now is time, which may or may not be a key point of this topic.

Morar Santee
Posted - 2011.07.01 20:15:00 - [116]
 

OP is clearly a troll.

If this 2003 player was such a proud supporter of MTs, he probably wouldn't post on his 1 month old alt. As usual, a surefire way to determine just how full of bull**** a poster is.

A second indicator: If he was so happy with the current MTs, he would have a monocle.

So even if this would-be troll does in fact like MTs, he had to realize, to his dismay, that he cannot buy EVE status with RL money. He just gets flamed for wearing NEX **** in a spaceship game. So now he wants to buy something that gives an actual advantage, and voilą: Skillpoints are an integral part of gameplay. Can't lose them, either. Win/Win.
And yes, clearly it adds to my entertainment if more "virtual goods" are sold on EVE. In fact, lets disable skill training altogether until people pay 1000 Aurum/day to activate it. Would make my gameplay so much more enjoyable.

Or, and this is a really revolutionary approach, perhaps moronic trolls should just stfu.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.01 21:32:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos

I really do think that you need to work on your reading comprehension skills.
Just for you, since me making this topic didn't give it away for you, I wholeheartedly support microtransactions thus I will happily pay my $15/mo to support their development and introduction.



You've no room to speak of "reading comprehension skills". It is your defense when someone manipulates your words, but when you want to manipulate the words of another it is all fair game. Anyone can read through this thread and watch your behavior.

Too bad you no MTs RL huh? Then maybe you could buy up some karama points.

Humpink Omaristos
Posted - 2011.07.01 21:47:00 - [118]
 

Edited by: Humpink Omaristos on 01/07/2011 21:52:30
Let's think about this ...

Originally by: Morar Santee
If this 2003 player was such a proud supporter of MTs, he probably wouldn't post on his 1 month old alt. As usual, a surefire way to determine just how full of bull**** a poster is.

Let's disregard the fact that the forums largely exist in their current state because people are able to post with their alts.

Anyone who has been actively playing the game for several years is likely deeply invested in the social aspect of the game and revealing the true identity of one's main character is ill advised because the perceived status long term contributions to a corp or alliance created could be severely compromised.

It's a bit like leading the war on drugs for years and then come out and say that you are a pothead who does blow every night. That's just not advisable if one values the relationships one has established over the years.

Other than that, attacking the person because you don't like the idea is a logical fallacy. You want to argue the point then do so, whom the idea is coming from is irrelevant to the discussion.

Originally by: Morar Santee
A second indicator: If he was so happy with the current MTs, he would have a monocle.

That in itself is a reasonable argument. However, from my personal perspective vanity MT don't excite me. I know lots of people will buy cloths or skins for their ships or whatnot, but to me those items do not carry a value proposition. What do I gain by buying a monocle? Nothing. Yes, the character looks different, but so what, to me that's irrelevant. When I was forced to go through CARBON character creation I clicked the random generator a couple three times till I saw something that wasn't hideous and moved on.

I will spend money if it buys me time because I value time. I don't value looks.

Originally by: Morar Santee
... he had to realize, to his dismay, that he cannot buy EVE status with RL money.

I don't want to buy status. I want to give money to receive time because time is my most valuable and very finite asset.

Originally by: Morar Santee
And yes, clearly it adds to my entertainment if more "virtual goods" are sold on EVE. In fact, lets disable skill training altogether until people pay 1000 Aurum/day to activate it. Would make my gameplay so much more enjoyable.

That line of reasoning that makes it impossible to take your arguments seriously. No one is talking about disabling skill training. You are trying to go to some extreme to invoke an emotional response in the readership, which incidentally is exactly what trolls do.

The sale of virtual goods can (can, doesn't have to) add to your entertainment value if it results in more people joining EVE for you to play with or to shoot at (if you are a PvPer).

Being opposed to non-vanity MT is a bit like being opposed to buying bread, because at the end of the day you really didn't earn the bread, you didn't plow the field, didn't buy the seeds, didn't tend to the crop, didn't harvest it, didn't mill the grain, didn't fire the oven, didn't kneed the dough, you merely cheated your way to some bread by exchanging money for it.

Morar Santee
Posted - 2011.07.01 22:36:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Humpink Omaristos

Let's disregard the fact that the forums largely exist in their current state because people are able to post with their alts. [..] It's a bit like leading the war on drugs for years and then come out and say that you are a pothead who does blow every night.

So you are a self-proclaimed hypocrite. Alright then... next!

Alpheias
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.07.01 23:14:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Humpink Omaristos

Let's disregard the fact that the forums largely exist in their current state because people are able to post with their alts. [..] It's a bit like leading the war on drugs for years and then come out and say that you are a pothead who does blow every night.

So you are a self-proclaimed hypocrite. Alright then... next!


I was about to say.


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