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Namura Kautsuo
Posted - 2011.06.27 04:49:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Namura Kautsuo

<More pointless crap from you>



You are arrogant, and you are a hypocrite. Some people may fall for your little games, I don't. You don't like being called on it, too bad, deal with it.


So you're going to tell me, you still stand behind this,

Originally by: Namura Kautsuo

While I do not want titans being sold on the MT store, I am more than willing to see ships in the store. I wouldn't mind buying a primae or maybe another brand new ship that fills a niche role never thought of before. Or ship models where you don't buy a new ship but can replace completely the visuals of your ship to another. Ship skins. And yes even bonuses to ships.

How about a brand new slot, each ship gets a single new module slot where only 1 MT store bought module can go. An extra 5% armor or whatever stat you want.



... and think it is good for Eve?

Why don't you display to all of us why you think it is good. Amaze us with the years of gaming insight you claim to have. Be sure to let us know how this impacts the sandbox and the economy of Eve and how that will impact gameplay.


Yeah sure, I stand by that. It's at most 5% advantage? Ooh im quakin in mah boots. Don't kill me uber powerful money bags man.

It's just my opinion man, deal with it.

My years of experience playing MMOs has merely come down to one truth as far as I can tell. It's almost never as bad as players tend to claim it is. Some one real counter example to that is of course the NGE from SWG. That truly caused a mass exodus from that game. All other games have merely had slow inclines or slow declines as they aged and changed.

What's this have to do with EVE? IMO I think EVE has stagnated. It's been flat for a good while now, I think for the whole YTD. All we've seen thus far are some minor new things like incursions and the like, but mostly just tweeks of already in game features, shuffling around of stuff that really doesn't do anything to grab the imagination of the player base. It's just more of the same and it's mighty boring.

Then comes Incarna with it's preview of things to come via the CQ and the Noble Exchange store. The usual influx of haters, and there are always tons of haters after every EVE expansion, is larger than normal. This is a major change up of the status quo. Cue the forum threadnaughts with threats of sub cancels.

I think this might ultimately be much ado about nothing. Some people who have a heavy, emotional even, investment in their internet spaceships being the best internet spaceships via pew pew will quit. The players who complete with one another not via market instead will mostly not give two ****s. I think there will be a new type of roving pirate who's sole mission is to blow up other peoples stuff gotten via the noble store. I think the tears of people who've spent tons of money on new their stuff only to see it destroyed because of their own carelessness and stupidity will be glorious.

And I think CCP will make more money.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:12:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Namura Kautsuo

Yeah sure, I stand by that. It's at most 5% advantage? Ooh im quakin in mah boots. Don't kill me uber powerful money bags man.

It's just my opinion man, deal with it.



So where is your insight on the impacts to the sandbox? I don't see it. You just want to keep on about this other stuff? Whatever.

Namura Kautsuo
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:20:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Namura Kautsuo

Yeah sure, I stand by that. It's at most 5% advantage? Ooh im quakin in mah boots. Don't kill me uber powerful money bags man.

It's just my opinion man, deal with it.



So where is your insight on the impacts to the sandbox? I don't see it. You just want to keep on about this other stuff? Whatever.


Let me spell it out for you in super easy to read letters.

NOTHING. Nothing will change except some people leaving and some new people joining.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:26:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Namura Kautsuo

Let me spell it out for you in super easy to read letters.

NOTHING. Nothing will change except some people leaving and some new people joining.


PROVE IT!

Demonstrably prove it!


There, big and red, happy?

Peter Greed
Dirt-Nap Ship Yards
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:28:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Callisto Ares
Originally by: Peter Greed
Originally by: RougeOperator



Anyway Even was not F2P from the get go with a cash store from the get go. That game had 7 million players.

Its not the same thing.

Terrible example peter.


Lol, I agree with you. It's wrong.



It doesn't matter if it's the same thing. The same outcome is what matters.....



It's THE example. I don't really know of any better parallel in online gaming history that could be better.


Star Wars Galaxies


Originally a subscription and player driven MMO, turned NGE to appeal to a wider audience, then eventually with a trading card game equivalent of micro transactions grafted on to further supplement income from a bleeding player base until finally set to shutdown this December.


That's.... not what Eve is doing.

From the start of this, I felt that the comparison to SWG was absolutely WAY off base with what's going on.

SWG changed every single aspect of gameplay in an attempt to make it a more linear game experience. What they did was 100x worse that what is happening right now.

That could change of course.... depending on how far CCP takes this. But it would never even come close to what happened to my favorite MMO of all time.

Namura Kautsuo
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:32:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Namura Kautsuo

Let me spell it out for you in super easy to read letters.

NOTHING. Nothing will change except some people leaving and some new people joining.


PROVE IT!

Demonstrably prove it!


There, big and red, happy?


It's my opinion bro. For the love of FSM. How can I prove something that hasn't happened yet? I'm sorry, I may be super awesome but I ain't no time traveler. I have only historical evidence that some games have survived their changeover of adding a MT store. It still remains to be seen whether the same happens to EVE, but my money is on it surviving.

Get a grip man.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:37:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Namura Kautsuo
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Namura Kautsuo

Let me spell it out for you in super easy to read letters.

NOTHING. Nothing will change except some people leaving and some new people joining.


PROVE IT!

Demonstrably prove it!


There, big and red, happy?


It's my opinion bro. For the love of FSM. How can I prove something that hasn't happened yet? I'm sorry, I may be super awesome but I ain't no time traveler. I have only historical evidence that some games have survived their changeover of adding a MT store. It still remains to be seen whether the same happens to EVE, but my money is on it surviving.

Get a grip man.


You refuse to prove your assertion that MT created items won't have an impact on the sandbox, on the Eve economy. You know why? Cause you're full of it and you can't. It's basic economics, and you can't do it. All your dancing around and little games, because you know you don't have an answer.

Thanks for playing, come again.

Linar Mardolak
Minmatar
Phlogiston Absorption
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:42:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Peter Greed
Originally by: Callisto Ares
Originally by: Peter Greed
Originally by: RougeOperator



Anyway Even was not F2P from the get go with a cash store from the get go. That game had 7 million players.

Its not the same thing.

Terrible example peter.


Lol, I agree with you. It's wrong.



It doesn't matter if it's the same thing. The same outcome is what matters.....



It's THE example. I don't really know of any better parallel in online gaming history that could be better.


Star Wars Galaxies


Originally a subscription and player driven MMO, turned NGE to appeal to a wider audience, then eventually with a trading card game equivalent of micro transactions grafted on to further supplement income from a bleeding player base until finally set to shutdown this December.


That's.... not what Eve is doing.

From the start of this, I felt that the comparison to SWG was absolutely WAY off base with what's going on.

SWG changed every single aspect of gameplay in an attempt to make it a more linear game experience. What they did was 100x worse that what is happening right now.

That could change of course.... depending on how far CCP takes this. But it would never even come close to what happened to my favorite MMO of all time.


I'm not quite sure that's not what they're doing. What has to happen to Eve's character development model in order to go F2P + MT? Extrapolate from there.

Namura Kautsuo
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:49:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Namura Kautsuo
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: Namura Kautsuo

Let me spell it out for you in super easy to read letters.

NOTHING. Nothing will change except some people leaving and some new people joining.


PROVE IT!

Demonstrably prove it!


There, big and red, happy?


It's my opinion bro. For the love of FSM. How can I prove something that hasn't happened yet? I'm sorry, I may be super awesome but I ain't no time traveler. I have only historical evidence that some games have survived their changeover of adding a MT store. It still remains to be seen whether the same happens to EVE, but my money is on it surviving.

Get a grip man.


You refuse to prove your assertion that MT created items won't have an impact on the sandbox, on the Eve economy. You know why? Cause you're full of it and you can't. It's basic economics, and you can't do it. All your dancing around and little games, because you know you don't have an answer.

Thanks for playing, come again.



  1. Most items in the store will be vanity items, having zero impact on the in game market whatsoever. As for the other items...

  2. Either lots and lots of MT items will get blown up, causing delicious tears. Or no one will buy them, thus nothing changes.

  3. The economy will shift to include a whole new class of items in the normal Marketplace. Lots of ISK will change hands.

  4. Most players will barely notice that some missioners out there are using a 5% better ship than them that they bought for $75 that coincidentally they lost because like many eve players sometimes they bite off more than they can chew and got it blown up.

  5. PLEX will probably increase in price, due to increased usage, boo frickin whoo.

  6. SOME corps will waste their money fleeting some buffed MT store ships/modules (if CCP even adds these things), which will merely put them at a higher upper class of corp than already exists, which means squat to normal people. Most corps will _not_ waste their money.

  7. My internet spaceships will still be better than your internet spaceships despite me not buying MT ships.



Mehta Mezhan
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:40:00 - [130]
 

This video seems to be an incredible argument in favor of selling power.

All the data in that presentation seems to indicate that "golden ammo":
  • Does not reduce playerbase size

  • DOES cause forum/press outrage, but is completely separate from reality

  • The loudest whiners are also the biggest (spending) hypocrites

Which is unfortunate, because I want my subscription to cover everything.
If you increase it, I might pay it, or not.
Please don't jerk me around, just charge me a flat rate for the content.

Incidentally, in that game, you might die and have to wait 15 seconds to respawn.
In Eve, your ship could be dozens or hundreds of hours of work.
Just a slightly bigger deal if he does 10% more damage :/

It's also saddening to hear they were forced to compromise their game only once their jobs/families were at stake. That's a human element we usually don't get to hear.

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:42:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Peter Greed
Regrettably, after watching http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win (specifically at the 29:00 minute mark and forward), it has suddenly become crystal clear to me that:



  • CCP will make more money by introducing RMT, regardless of the global and local press.

  • They will absolutely 100% move forward with these changes, including advantage based items.

  • From the business standpoint, it's actually the right way to go.

  • Spending any further time reading or commenting is just a complete waste of time.





So, while I vehemently despise CCP from a gamer's standpoint, I must applaud them for their bold business move.

The CSM meeting and any further comments from CCP are purely cosmetic, and will absolutely do nothing to change the outcome.



Fake Edit: Trust me, I don't like taking this viewpoint, but for those who threaten the death of Eve through whatever means necessary, go watch the video, and then tell me you have a leg to stand on.


I watched it too and

I agree its the reality....

... time to give virtual world life a break for another twenty years maybe.. played d&d in high school and went on to other stuff... came back to gaming when i was 40.. but, if its going to be all about using real $ to buy stuff might as well go back to healthier outdoor stuff.. probably should have anyway

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:06:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
... time to give virtual world life a break for another twenty years maybe.. played d&d in high school and went on to other stuff... came back to gaming when i was 40.. but, if its going to be all about using real $ to buy stuff might as well go back to healthier outdoor stuff.. probably should have anyway


I'm in the same boat, I have a bike that I want to ride to work, a garden that I want to maintain, chooks to keep fed and happy. That's not going to happen if I keep spending three hours a night playing EVE.

Right now I've got PLEX reverse redeemed and infrastructure set up to allow my characters to make ISK without me actively playing the game. I'm keeping the account active using PLEX, and all I need to do is get back to real life.

Renard Voltaire
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:18:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: Renard Voltaire on 27/06/2011 07:20:29
Originally by: Peter Greed
Regrettably, after watching http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win (specifically at the 29:00 minute mark and forward), it has suddenly become crystal clear to me that:



  • CCP will make more money by introducing RMT, regardless of the global and local press.

  • They will absolutely 100% move forward with these changes, including advantage based items.

  • From the business standpoint, it's actually the right way to go.

  • Spending any further time reading or commenting is just a complete waste of time.








So, while I vehemently despise CCP from a gamer's standpoint, I must applaud them for their bold business move.

The CSM meeting and any further comments from CCP are purely cosmetic, and will absolutely do nothing to change the outcome.



Fake Edit: Trust me, I don't like taking this viewpoint, but for those who threaten the death of Eve through whatever means necessary, go watch the video, and then tell me you have a leg to stand on.
******You know what people respond to and what they want in thier mind is something different.



Actions dont speak louder than words............



People "respond" to ****, sex and eating fat food, which in most cases in excess is poison...... period



What people "what" is cleaniness, morality, and health..........but at times make "excuses" to justify our response



The market does not give what we "want" its what we "respond" to...............



And its poison



Animals "respond" to stumuli, Humans even though we all know its hard sometimes, want what we believe in whats correct because we are more than an animal.............This world on a Macro level is inferior to this concept

We are just "Consumers", even the name is trash, might as well call us Dogs.........its another clouded name for peasent************


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