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Juliette DuBois
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:07:00 - [31]
 

Well, there are some differences between pick up shooter and EVE. Mainly the fact that EVE is quite awful game to just pick and and play by yourself. Not to mention people are paying monthly charge already which should give pretty healthy return per user (part of players being multi-accounters). I wonder if CCP would dare to go F2P at some point... Laughing

OT Smithers
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:09:00 - [32]
 

It's amazing how many people have definitive opinions about **** they know little or nothing about -- including CCP's priorities and intentions.

Even more amazing are the number of vocal screamers who are somehow convinced that CCP's real goal is to wreck their own game, or alternatively that CCP is just sooo stupid that they need clueless players to tell them what to do.

Serene Repose
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:10:00 - [33]
 

And, it could be, EVE was an oasis not corrupted by the corporate mentality that's run quality into the ground in every corner of the world, something they've managed more cause we're captive to it, than cause we think it's a better way to go.

It could be, in the end, our naivte is showing when at last even EVE has to morph into the Orwellian model. Some of the bitterness and anger has to be a reaction to us thinking these CCP guys get it. They know what the underlying menace to the "deal" is.

That's the real slap in the face. Nowhere is safe. Corporate mentality is like a bad fungal infection. It's got a life of its own and will make hosts of us all as good parasites will.

Like Camelot I guess. For a while there we were safe in our delusion. Don't take it personally, CCP. We were the dupes for thinking it was - personal.


Saska Samar
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:10:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Maplestone
Originally by: JC Anderson
Especially when it goes into how they tracked the people that sent them all the hate mail over mt... And found that those same people were purchasing pay-to-win items not long after.


That actually doesn't suprise me at all. People scratch where it itches. The people most upset are the ones who know that if they continue playing, they will end up paying.




Still ignoring that the BF game was FREE and they started paying where Eve is already subscription based.

Yes some people play Eve.... not for free though as they have spend time earning the ISK before they earn money for stuff

Thevani Khashour
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:17:00 - [35]
 

If they do it the right way and make it free to play, yes, they'd be successful. Instant gratification is the wave of the future, don'tchaknow. But, so far it just looks like they're going to try to burn the candle at both ends and if that's the case, they'll fail hard.

Hell, if they make EVE FTP, I won't give a crap what they sell. The game would be totally destroyed by that time and I'd just be here to fly Amarr's golden ships.

Brujo Loco
Amarr
Brujeria Teologica
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:18:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: OT Smithers
It's amazing how many people have definitive opinions about **** they know little or nothing about -- including CCP's priorities and intentions.

Even more amazing are the number of vocal screamers who are somehow convinced that CCP's real goal is to wreck their own game, or alternatively that CCP is just sooo stupid that they need clueless players to tell them what to do.



In the World of the Voiceless, yours is one of many , like ours.

In the World of VOiceless, you are one of many, like us

In the World of the Voiceless, lag is our Voice, lag is our Violence, lag is our Right.

You are a shadow, the shadow cast by those that hold your reins for you are a puppet in the great stage of Virtuality

Our Strings are moved too, but by the sheer rage of revolt! We are the masters and slaves of our Passions, yet you, are the slave of you and you alone.

REVOLT and Be free! Join us! For Change is at hand and the Dawn promises FREEDOM!!! Would you not rather die in the night thinking dawn is coming than cowering in your cave pretending dawn MIGHT come one day?

BE FREE!!! REVOLT!

Cancel Align NOW
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:20:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Peter Greed
Regrettably, after watching http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win (specifically at the 29:00 minute mark and forward), it has suddenly become crystal clear to me that:



  • CCP will make more money by introducing RMT, regardless of the global and local press.

  • They will absolutely 100% move forward with these changes, including advantage based items.

  • From the business standpoint, it's actually the right way to go.

  • Spending any further time reading or commenting is just a complete waste of time.





So, while I vehemently despise CCP from a gamer's standpoint, I must applaud them for their bold business move.

The CSM meeting and any further comments from CCP are purely cosmetic, and will absolutely do nothing to change the outcome.



Fake Edit: Trust me, I don't like taking this viewpoint, but for those who threaten the death of Eve through whatever means necessary, go watch the video, and then tell me you have a leg to stand on.


If eve was free to play I would agree.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:20:00 - [38]
 

I disagree that it works for eve as eve started as a subscription based model and the players bought into it knowing that or in part because of that in addition to all that they like about EVE, sci-fi/pvp, single shard, etc. Having said that I'm sure there is population segment that would be fine with sub + paid advantage or f2p, others would complain then pay anyway, I'd simply leave.

I agree that as a business if the data supports that players want f2p options for competitive advantage or will pay for pimp clothes, pets, etc then it makes business sense to capitalize on that. I don't think CCP has made attempts at finding that out from us, I've never taken a survey on this, if anything was mentioned about paying extra it might have been 1 or a few questions I really don't remember.

I'm sure CCP has data on what percentage of users actually read and post on the forum or just read them or ignore them completely so they do have an idea of how much people on the forums represent the other players etc.

I tend to think that the CSM meeting won't change anything either, CCP seems confident their doing the right thing and may only make changes to appease people until their 2 other projects aren't just eating money but earning it.


xxxTRUSTxxx
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:21:00 - [39]
 

very interesting link OP

quite scarey to think eve might go this way. i really hope not.

one thing stood out in the slide show.

Advantage giving items:

BE CAREFUL - The looser must NOT KNOW they have lost because of the item. <<<<<< **** me legal cheating


Vincentus
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:22:00 - [40]
 

You could be very right that CCP has been watching figures like this and found that this could be their salvation. I don't know anything about that shooter, but it seems to me that the community and player-driven content is a lot less important to the game than it is in EVE. If CCP implements it regardless of what has happened the last couple of days (which I really don't hope), I hope EVE burns and dies fast.

I expect that our players are more likely to move and less likely to buy **** and that revenue will not be impacted the same way as for Battlefield, but in any case I think CCP is making a huge gamble if they push this through...sigh...

Interesting to listen to however

Peter Greed
Dirt-Nap Ship Yards
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:23:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Juliette DuBois
Well, there are some differences between pick up shooter and EVE. Mainly the fact that EVE is quite awful game to just pick and and play by yourself. Not to mention people are paying monthly charge already which should give pretty healthy return per user (part of players being multi-accounters). I wonder if CCP would dare to go F2P at some point... Laughing


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Johannes Alexodia
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:23:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Demure Guise
Edited by: Demure Guise on 26/06/2011 23:00:54
Originally by: XIRUSPHERE
You forget that this game bred us for this war.

CCP constantly patted itself on the back for making a game where it was survival of the fittest, full loot PvP, a player-driven Market economy and the philosophy of "If you got scammed, tough ****, you were a dipstick." Eve players are not Hobbit-Humpers and Elf-Wallopers in a game where defeat means you get a 15 second time-out and pop back as good as new without a mussed hair. We know defeat can hurt like a *****, yet we accept it and take the knocks. This game, inevitably, attracts the kind of players that inherently dislike bull**** and want to get where they are via effort and sheer bloody-minded determination.

I'm just surprised that CCP, of all people, are surprised at the reactions!


Exactly! CCP. If you made the game and you didn't realize this would be the reaction Tough ****! For that Hilmar you are a dipstick. You are only getting what you created. Cause and Effect. No P2W.

Maplestone
Myth and Peace Lords
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:25:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Saska Samar
Still ignoring that the BF game was FREE and they started paying where Eve is already subscription based.


Starting with a subscription price of $0 or $15 doesn't change the rest of the model about how people behave to an incremental cost :)

octahexx Charante
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:25:00 - [44]
 

very informative.
i can se how ccp would like this path if they really need the money for funding their 2 coming game titels.
would it work who knows?

the basic concept of maybe having "xp booster" as in skills train faster if you pay for it i can see alot of ppl sell out to it.

but it goes against the very nature of eve that takes the cookie from you and then laughs in your crying face for caring about the cookie in first place.

other games never pretend to be cold hard and unforgiving and force you to come to the game not the other way around...and i think its what i like about eve.

only part i dont get if they are certain this is the way to go why so covert and silent about it...if the theory its just 2% whinign on the forums why care? why not just say it outright and let people know about the new great future?


Namura Kautsuo
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:28:00 - [45]
 

Great video. It remains to be seen if the same dynamics that work in a FTP game will work with a subscription based game, but I think personally it might just work.

Several things to take from this and the current goings on. Us forum users are not representative in the least of the majority of players. Us forum users are most of the time talking out of our ass, we claim people are canceling their sub en-mass over this when in fact nothing could be further from the truth. And I think further as CCP moves forward with MT forum users will be shown to be the highest spenders.

MT will inject a whole host of new possibilities and I for one cannot wait for that idea to be fully realized. Nay sayers can just get bent.

Saska Samar
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:34:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Namura Kautsuo
Great video. It remains to be seen if the same dynamics that work in a FTP game will work with a subscription based game, but I think personally it might just work.




I'll post again for ****s and giggles.

The video said 1.29% paid when it was free and the revenues doubled when the paid contents were introduced. However average income declined so you can determine that around 5% or less paid for the content. Would 5% cover the amount of lost revenue from people leaving due to bad publicity.... considering a lot of us have 2 or more accounts?

Our accounts are paying for Dust and WoD development. We should be looked after not abused by our perverted drunken step-dad. Am I saying that CCP employees are nonces? No of course not but Twisted Evil

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:36:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Peter Greed
Regrettably, after watching http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win (specifically at the 29:00 minute mark and forward), it has suddenly become crystal clear to me that:



  • CCP will make more money by introducing RMT, regardless of the global and local press.

  • They will absolutely 100% move forward with these changes, including advantage based items.

  • From the business standpoint, it's actually the right way to go.

  • Spending any further time reading or commenting is just a complete waste of time.





So, while I vehemently despise CCP from a gamer's standpoint, I must applaud them for their bold business move.

The CSM meeting and any further comments from CCP are purely cosmetic, and will absolutely do nothing to change the outcome.



Fake Edit: Trust me, I don't like taking this viewpoint, but for those who threaten the death of Eve through whatever means necessary, go watch the video, and then tell me you have a leg to stand on.

FWIW, Zulu's previous blogpost even quoted the golf analogy.

FWIW Part II, I absolutely agree that the CSM trip to Mordor is a waste of time. If the CSM really wanted to make a statement, they would have resigned en masse. Normally that would have been lolworthy, but this isn't normally, except for CCP derping, of course.

Namura Kautsuo
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:41:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Saska Samar
Originally by: Namura Kautsuo
Great video. It remains to be seen if the same dynamics that work in a FTP game will work with a subscription based game, but I think personally it might just work.




I'll post again for ****s and giggles.

The video said 1.29% paid when it was free and the revenues doubled when the paid contents were introduced. However average income declined so you can determine that around 5% or less paid for the content. Would 5% cover the amount of lost revenue from people leaving due to bad publicity.... considering a lot of us have 2 or more accounts?

Our accounts are paying for Dust and WoD development. We should be looked after not abused by our perverted drunken step-dad. Am I saying that CCP employees are nonces? No of course not but Twisted Evil


There is no way our accounts _wouldn't_ be paying for Dust and WoD development, anyone who ever thought it wouldn't is patently insane and does not understand how corporations work.

It's not abuse. It's just good business and it could change the EVE landscape tremendously, which I am all in favor of. EVE has stagnated for years now and has needed a huge injection of new ideas and a new direction. Incarna and MT could do just that.

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:43:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Namura Kautsuo
.... EVE has stagnated for years now and has needed a huge injection of new ideas and a new direction. Incarna and MT could do just that.
EVE has stagnated because CCP were too busy derping on their other pet projects and behaving like they were still a 10 man game loft design studio instead of trying to be more professional.

Cancel Align NOW
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:54:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Cancel Align NOW on 26/06/2011 23:56:38
I like the canary in the mineshaft analogy.

I also would love to see CCPs statistics regarding user numbers and the payment per user etc... ...I doubt they keep their records in such good order.

Namura Kautsuo
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:54:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: Namura Kautsuo
.... EVE has stagnated for years now and has needed a huge injection of new ideas and a new direction. Incarna and MT could do just that.
EVE has stagnated because CCP were too busy derping on their other pet projects and behaving like they were still a 10 man game loft design studio instead of trying to be more professional.


Rather I think it's that they payed too much attention to forum *****s who just want more of the same lolspaceships junk. The original vision was far greater than what we see here, that vision was an awesome vision. What we've had instead is people worrying about their sov crap, blobs roaming the low secs, and other nonsense. What we need is a huge shakup that changes the foundation of what this game is about and who its for.

The days of super high barrier to entry should be over. If you want to play the deep game its still there in all its glory, but if you want to play the cheap thrill game then by FSM now we can have that too.

The very fact that few people have suggested that people who waste their money on MT stuff, even performance enhancing stuff, will be brought down to their knees crying over their wasted money as its blown up in typical EVE fashion. Instead people are whining that it will give them an unfair advantage and no one will be able to stuff the uber spendthrifts. That alone tells me that not just the game itself has stagnated, but the mindshare of the EVE players that use these forums themselves has decline to epic lows.

In short, EVE forum users are morons.

waferzankko
The Maverick Navy
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:55:00 - [52]
 

where is the option to buy skill points?

Oxeu
Caldari
D.R. Incorporated
Genesis Invictus
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:56:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Oxeu on 03/07/2011 16:42:28

Namura Kautsuo
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:57:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: waferzankko
where is the option to buy skill points?


Won't happen, we might see a one day 100% SP booster which dies if you die.

octahexx Charante
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:04:00 - [55]
 

the presentation follows the leaked email pretty perfectly.
what op is trying to say is that if you dont want this just accept it and find another game.

the only thing is that if ccp really belivies it this presentation and its way of thinking is why all the bull****? why the taking ppl in planes to a bogus meeting ..why all the bs blogs with no content?

why not just announce it and let people choose what they want the old eve of the new eve.


everything else is just pointless waste of time.

Namura Kautsuo
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:11:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: octahexx Charante
the presentation follows the leaked email pretty perfectly.
what op is trying to say is that if you dont want this just accept it and find another game.

the only thing is that if ccp really belivies it this presentation and its way of thinking is why all the bull****? why the taking ppl in planes to a bogus meeting ..why all the bs blogs with no content?

why not just announce it and let people choose what they want the old eve of the new eve.


everything else is just pointless waste of time.


Because CCP actually has a closer connection to its players than most game studios, despite forum sentiment. So of course they would bring CSM over to discuss stuff. Will the discussions leads to canceling of MT? I hope not and I doubt it. Might it lead to a bit more narrow use of MT store, perhaps.

Even the illusion of talking things over with CSM and taking what they have to say to heart is better than not having CSM at all. Sorry that's how it works, deal with it. ugh

Peter Greed
Dirt-Nap Ship Yards
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:13:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Demure Guise


I'm just surprised that CCP, of all people, are surprised at the reactions!


I can tell by this statement, you have not watched the video. :)

They are not surprised at the reactions. The reactions were predicted precisely.

Vherkin
Amarr
War Cake
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:15:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Vherkin on 27/06/2011 00:16:23
Edited by: Vherkin on 27/06/2011 00:15:58
I don't care if they are right or not, i will still quit if it happen.
You need to understand something, people don't pay a 15$ subcription fee to be told after that they still need to pay for the best content of the game.

-Eve isn't a free to play with people paying nothing playing on it.
-Eve isn't bankrupting
-Eve isn't a shooter either, the gameplay is a whole lot different.
-Eve online actually exist and trive because ccp wasn't stupid enough to do the same as everyone else in the industry. They existed while giant have crashed and burn because of that fact.

I have a better idea, Hey ccp, you know that mmo, World of Warcraft, by Blizzard ?
They have what, 15 millions suscriber! OMG
Why not go copy them ? After all, if it make money, it's good enough for you right ?

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:17:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Peter Greed
Originally by: Demure Guise


I'm just surprised that CCP, of all people, are surprised at the reactions!


I can tell by this statement, you have not watched the video. :)

They are not surprised at the reactions. The reactions were predicted precisely.


You sure are fighting hard for your right to right to surrender. So surrender, go play spaceships and return to bliss. No? Ok.

The vid is poignant, however, that game is different from Eve in many respects. Not all things port well. Restaurants do not sell tractors.

octahexx Charante
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:17:00 - [60]
 

so your trying to tell me they are flying people to another part of the world for 2% of their playerbase that they are already convinced will buy more then the other 98% over the players anyway?

that doesnt even make sense.


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