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Darkaene
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:24:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Darkaene on 26/06/2011 20:51:59
Since it seems clear that CCP is determined to go in a direction we don't want we need to find a way to redirect. The only way to do that is to come up with ideas that they think will produce as much revenue as theirs, and hopefully for the sake of the community they will take the path of least resistance.

I have therefore the following thoughts.

Additional character slots - Like many other games you could buy additional character slots, and in combination with the next suggestion the idea is potentially attractive.

Character Training Option - This would allow you to train a second character on your account for one month while your primary is still training. It can be purchased multiple times for additional characters.

These two options in combination give us a customized subscription. There are people who can't multi-box/client or don't want to play multiple characters at a time who never the less would like a few alts.

Nothing needs to be removed and nothing is added to the game and it can't affect gameplay anymore than a second account affects gameplay. Which is already a time honored and condoned tradition in Eve Online.

Skill Transfer - This will be a hard sell and I fully admit that there will be THOSE people who use it extensively. It should be clear that I mean Transfer, not fast training, not free training, Transfer. Again nothing is going to be added to the game. This IS the sort of Nex item that should cost 80 dollars.

The way it could work is a character buys an item blank from the Nex that they can then use to transfer a skill they know into the blank, this removes it from that character. That blank can then be bought on the market for ISK which can then be used like a skill book with the same requirements to transfer that skill from the blank to the new character.

We've added nothing to the game, time has still been spent to acquire the skill points used, ISK has been spent to acquire the skill book (by both donor and receiving characters), and more ISK to acquire the skill blank to transfer that skill to the new character. These items could easily come in numerous varieties one for each training multiplier and skill level combination I would think. From a lore perspective I think this fits perfectly.

I do not see a problem with skill dependency on the part of the Skill donor. Suppose the skill transferred is required for another skill that character has learned? Most items, ships, equipment don't merely list the end skill requirement, but all the dependent skills that needed to be acquired to get there. There are many scenarios of course where this does not hold true, but I think it holds with the lore as well. This will put intentional gaps into peoples knowledge, everything is up for sale even literal chunks of your memory.

All these ideas together I would imagine would generate quite a lot of revenue for CCP, without affecting our gameplay on the whole or otherwise affecting our market.

Xia Long
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:28:00 - [2]
 

-1
no , sorry but i'm not goin to suggest other forms of MT when i don't want them at all

cytex malrone
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:30:00 - [3]
 

-1 These are not Vanity items .

Darkaene
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:33:00 - [4]
 

No they are not vanity items, but its seems pretty obvious that they are past that already. I'd rather see this than people buying skills period and the ships to go with them. This at least preserves the sum total.

cytex malrone
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:37:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Darkaene
No they are not vanity items, but its seems pretty obvious that they are past that already. I'd rather see this than people buying skills period and the ships to go with them. This at least preserves the sum total.


The player base drew a line in the sand this weekend one that the csm better not cross. Anything like this is completely unacceptable . Mt should be taken out altogether otherwise just use for paint jobs and space barbies full stop. Nothing that adds any functionality to the game at all should be sold in the nex.

Darkaene
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:48:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Darkaene on 26/06/2011 20:48:38
Originally by: cytex malrone

The player base drew a line in the sand this weekend one that the csm better not cross. Anything like this is completely unacceptable . Mt should be taken out altogether otherwise just use for paint jobs and space barbies full stop. Nothing that adds any functionality to the game at all should be sold in the nex.


Then I'm afraid you are being naive. They are not going to reverse course on Nex they've spent too much time on it to abandon it now. So they are going to do everything they possibly can to force it through and it will be forced through no matter the cost. Sad to say.

But we can change the course from here. We might be able to hold off non-vanity items for a while but not forever. Once we have the Nex, it's inevitable. It will happen eventually. So we can come up with better solutions now or let them come up with their own. We both know how that will go.

We need to establish early on some sort of guideline of what is and is not acceptable. Things that add game affecting material to the game is the big concern. I'm trying to come up with things that will add options without directly impacting game-play over all. In other words we need a fallback position, a plan B.

One big fear is that people will simply be able to pay real money for skill points. So I tried to find a way to make the result possible without simply creating skill points out of thin air.

Prepare for the worst my friends, Hope for the best.

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:55:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Mars Theran on 26/06/2011 20:58:17
Originally by: cytex malrone
Originally by: Darkaene
No they are not vanity items, but its seems pretty obvious that they are past that already. I'd rather see this than people buying skills period and the ships to go with them. This at least preserves the sum total.


The player base drew a line in the sand this weekend one that the csm better not cross. Anything like this is completely unacceptable . Mt should be taken out altogether otherwise just use for paint jobs and space barbies full stop. Nothing that adds any functionality to the game at all should be sold in the nex.


You an 3-4000 odd others drew a line in the sand. Some of us are not so restricted in our thinking, and have a little room for leeway, though I too disagree with the majority of the OPs list.

There are still some ~289000 players who have not voiced their opinion over this; the majority of which are still playing as usual, despite your attempts at crowd control.

Edit: Also like to include a link to a thread I have invited the CSM to take part in and review at their leisure. Not even certain they will respond, given past history of months now with little to no community involvement while they push their own goals. Little dig there, I know. Smile

Mattio11
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:58:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Mattio11 on 27/06/2011 00:05:33
Edited by: Mattio11 on 27/06/2011 00:01:55
you take out MT all together and you, and many other players (i.e. players who own multiple accounts), lose the ability to buy plex with isk...

In case you didn't realise what you were saying Very Happy


**edit** I'm the same as MARS THERAN. I don't agree with all the options in the OP. But I understand that we have to start thinking positively and stop acting like spoiled children who didn't get the birthday party they were hoping for.

Lilliana Stelles
Caldari
Nagrom Security Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:53:00 - [9]
 

MT is here to stay, may as well get real about it.

This seems reasonable. Better this than aurum for sp. Ideal? no. But a fair compromise.

Add SP remaps to the list, alot of people would pay for those.

Hopefully if we can support enough reasonable ideas CCP will be too overworked to come up with stupid ones.

Darkaene
Posted - 2011.06.27 14:28:00 - [10]
 

I'd resist skill remaps, makes skill points too fluid. I'd prefer to maintain skills as a hard asset.

The skill transfer is fairly rigid and maintains that a skill point trained is a permanent skill point invested. There is no way to convert it into something you'd prefer without somewhere along the line someone investing the time to train the skill you'd prefer.

You could buy the transfer blank, drop your unwanted skill into it and sell it on the market, the ISK could then in turn be used to buy a transfer blank with the skill you want and you'd have to buy the skill book itself of course. I'd wager most people are only going to use this when they want a change of pace or trained the wrong skill, so while the demand may be huge for those who simply want to acquire new skills as quickly as possible, the supply will be I expect considerably less subsequently driving up the price considerably.


So imagine that you've bought a transfer blank, used it and put it on the market. Your going to roll the ISK price of the Plex that bought your blank into the price you charge as will others. Demand will drive the price up further. Those that whish to use plex to sell for ISK will in turn have to convert even more plex into ISK. This is win for CCP, while further lightening the RMT's wallets and spreading it more thinly without adding any new skill points to the game. I would think this would dilute the impact of RMT's trying to buy power on the world now given that they spend all their money on ships and items and what not. How much money will they spend on skills instead of ships? Just some thoughts.

Sujanra Acoma
Minmatar
Shadow Kitty Legion
Rura-Penthe
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:39:00 - [11]
 

I don't have a lot of problems with what you've listed as such, but what worries me about moving beyond vanity items to things that provide functionality, even if it's only a convenience thing and not an ingame advantage thing, is that it opens the floodgates.

CCP comes up with a new, cool feature and has to decide whether to give it to us for "free" (for our 15bux), or if enough people will pay extra for it to make it worthwhile to release via NeX instead.

Darkaene
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:33:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Sujanra Acoma
I don't have a lot of problems with what you've listed as such, but what worries me about moving beyond vanity items to things that provide functionality, even if it's only a convenience thing and not an ingame advantage thing, is that it opens the floodgates.



I completely agree. I'm just hoping to influence what is behind those flood gates. Once the market was up even with just vanity items, it became inevitable that game affecting items will find their way into it. Promises to the community are easily forgotten when there is money to be made. I'd like their to be a queue of palatable ideas ahead of all the crap we don't want to push the release of such things back as far as we can.

Quote:

CCP comes up with a new, cool feature and has to decide whether to give it to us for "free" (for our 15bux), or if enough people will pay extra for it to make it worthwhile to release via NeX instead.


If they start charging people for gameplay features/skill types/ship types/areas/etc while simultaneously requiring a subscription to play then eve is well and truly dead. Its one thing to offer a few variants of existing in game items or non gameplay features, and another thing entirely to create Nex only features. If we get to this point then we've been podded.

The only reason any of those things are even moderately acceptable in other games is because they are F2P.

Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:23:00 - [13]
 

-1

Horrible idea, if you can afford to spend extra real life money on the game you should just get another account. That gives you 3 extra char slots and an extra training queue.

Skill transfer and especially the combination of these is even worse, since it basically would mean you could train 2 chars at once, then transfer the SP to the main char, basically giving them double SP rate (well even more, since you could have mapped your attributes for different sets of skills.

Horrible idea

Darkaene
Posted - 2011.06.28 20:16:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Darkaene on 28/06/2011 20:17:06
Originally by: Keitaro Baka
-1

Horrible idea, if you can afford to spend extra real life money on the game you should just get another account. That gives you 3 extra char slots and an extra training queue.

Skill transfer and especially the combination of these is even worse, since it basically would mean you could train 2 chars at once, then transfer the SP to the main char, basically giving them double SP rate (well even more, since you could have mapped your attributes for different sets of skills.

Horrible idea


Excluding the transfer idea, your basically arguing against extra accounts period. If you don't like that people can train two characters at once, then you must really not like people being able to train two characters AND play those two characters at once. So your argument is at heart contradictory with itself.

I'll give you the transfer though, I don't like the possibility that people might eventually be able to pay money to get skills. However, if it MUST happen, if CCP is GOING to do it, I want it done in such a way that someone somewhere invested the time in training the skills that are going to be sold. This limits the supply(meaning no matter how much money you have there will be an in game bottle neck that can not be overcome with money), which in turn will increase the perceived value and above all preserves the status quot.

You might say that if they can pay for extra accounts, they can easily overcome the bottle neck. You forget that the skills have prerequisites. I can't use two characters to get Minmatar Cruisers level 1 in half the time. For either character to get to Minmatar Cruiser level 1, both would need Minmatar Frigate at the appropriate level. Now You could have one work on Gunnery, and the other work on Minmatar Cruiser, but the moment any skill is transferred off the character you've got to cover that ground again on that character to get to the next skill up. So using two characters to get skills in half the time only works up to the point you start transferring. It can be done, but at enormous cost. You have to pay for a transfer blank for every skill you want to transfer and you have to pay for an alternate account or additional training queue for the duration of that training. In the end you have one character that can do one role at a time, which might have otherwise been two or three or four characters that together would be capable of completely owning that one character. I also think most people willing to P2W will not have the patience to wait on cashing out their training mule to get to the really high end stuff. I think this transfer idea will carrot our dear RMT'ers right over a cliff and leave a large chunk of money in CCP's wallet. Meanwhile the rest of us have a way to correct minor training mistakes while making a little ISK if we need to. Or to sell off skills we simply don't want anymore. This part I think plays into the lore of the game.

Again however, the fact remains that we are confronted with the possibility that CCP might simply put skill points on the market in exchange for money. Period. No training queue, no waiting period AT ALL. You may not want my idea, but surely you don't want that idea even more? As I've pointed out, I'm trying to turn nightmarish outcomes into more tolerable alternatives. Can I at least get a lesser of two evils vote while denouncing both possibilities?


 

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