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blankseplocked Congratulations, Protestors. You've doomed your own cause.
 
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Warg Matar
Minmatar
The Red Circle Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:54:00 - [211]
 

Originally by: Eleena Wolf
thats the point, those games went down to mmo graveyard for alot less. Daoc could have comeback if they fixed the imbalances, they did not, instead they kept releasing expansions. :/ pattern? Ccp could have for sure avoided that had they responded, but now they have to survive the media, that is something that is significantly harder than just surviving an angry playerbase. even if they fix things, answer questions, it is a very real possibility that it is already too late.


I like my eve, I don't protest to kill CCP, I protest to save eve. The last zulu devblog at least had some promise, and at some point you have to start trusting the devblogs, the interviews etc again. If not, why not just biomass already.

Telven Stareal
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:56:00 - [212]
 

Originally by: Snowflake Tem
I've gotta agree with TF, I'll be most disappointed if CCP does get weak willed and bend to the senseless baying of the mob. Although I will be sad to see some idiot customers leave the in-game market I'll be happier for the reduced noise level when the do shut-up and leave.

* No pay to win items are on sale. Period.
* CCPs timing and communication with the API licence charge and AUR items was VERY POOR. Made them look money hungry, which we all are, but it's bad form to show it.
* Soundwave is an ass - a likeble ass - but an ass all the same.
* Inferring condescending tone and taking riotous action from documents not addressed to you is imbecilic. Please keep taking the anti-psychotics.

What I'd like to know is who at CCP has stabbed Big H and Arnar Hrafn Gylfason in the back by leaking documents to prejudicial media. If I were Hilmar I'd crucify them for putting a kink in my plans for global world domination. Seriously, if someone butchered my trust like that I'd be truly miffed.



While I understand where you are coming from, this isnít a battle of wills. This is simply a case of a companyís customer base stating that the product the company wants to offer is not acceptable.

I agree that CCP has had very poor communication with us the players. This is why there has been such anger from some players and having those leaked documents sure didnít help. To be honest, I think it could have been avoided had CCP taking the issue in hand from the start.

Eleena Wolf
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:01:00 - [213]
 

Edited by: Eleena Wolf on 27/06/2011 07:05:25
Edited by: Eleena Wolf on 27/06/2011 07:04:46
Edited by: Eleena Wolf on 27/06/2011 07:03:27
Edited by: Eleena Wolf on 27/06/2011 07:02:20
Originally by: Warg Matar
Originally by: Eleena Wolf
thats the point, those games went down to mmo graveyard for alot less. Daoc could have comeback if they fixed the imbalances, they did not, instead they kept releasing expansions. :/ pattern? Ccp could have for sure avoided that had they responded, but now they have to survive the media, that is something that is significantly harder than just surviving an angry playerbase. even if they fix things, answer questions, it is a very real possibility that it is already too late.


I like my eve, I don't protest to kill CCP, I protest to save eve. The last zulu devblog at least had some promise, and at some point you have to start trusting the devblogs, the interviews etc again. If not, why not just biomass already.


I dont disagree with the protesting, I disagree with how people went about protesting. I hope I'm wrong and that all will be well and we can go back to flying around in internet spaceships and count our fictional wealth. But if the fate of the listed mmos is what is in store for eve, i wont biomass my character, I will do much the same as i did on the daoc North America servers. Be one of the last 3 Alb players on the lancelot server (before they started clustering servers) swearing voodoo curses directed toward mythic entertainment

Henrica Gaufridus
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:03:00 - [214]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
Originally by: Skex Relbore
This isn't a prison and it isn't an asylum . . . .


Then why can't you leave? You keep saying you are, and yet you're still here. Sounds like some sort of prison to me. Maybe it's just in your mind though.


I don't know if anyone has explained how unsubbing works to you, so we'll just assume you're ****ing ******ed and explain:

When you unsub, you still have game time left, because your account isn't instantly cancelled. For example, I have 29 days left, I think. The result is that we can sit here and attempt to change Eve for the better by convincing CCP that they're in the wrong. There's your answer, and it's been answered in every single other trolling "LOL Y R U STILL HERE PROTESTERS!>?" We're not doing this to be jackasses, we're doing it because we want Eve to remain fun.

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:15:00 - [215]
 

Op - were paying customers. We have every right to tell ccp we don't like what they are doing.

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:25:00 - [216]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
If CCP has any sense at all--and I'm not sure if they do--the result of this meeting will be to accelerate the deployment of non-vanity items.

The reason for this is that CCP can't allow the perception that the inmates can run the asylum. .....

.... Given the insanity logic of many of the ragers, I really can't say they I want any of them in charge of the direction or future of the game.
.....
~Tron Flux

You may be right, but in 6 days my subs run out and I'm gone except to watch the epic drama as CCP and thereby EVE implodes.

Also:
Quote:
People will go around wrecking trade hubs every time they feel like it, over any detail they decide they want.


U Mad? Very Happy

Rutger Centemus
Phantom Squad
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:27:00 - [217]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
*edited for brevity*
But I will say that perhaps you have corporations confused with non-profits. Corporations have 2 responsibilities. 1. don't break the applicable law. 2. profit.

You must be one of those that confuse goal and means. As far as I can tell, most companies used to strive to survive and be healthy (goal). One necessary effect was a healthy financial situation (means).

Just a few things in a long line of 'straws':

As for 'breaking the applicable law': imo this should extend to 'no reneging' and 'keeping your word where possible and communicating openly when this is impossible and / or unwanted'. 2 years ago CCP released an April fools' devblog which satirically discussed MT, and seemed to make clear CCP would not implement any MT.
This was confirmed roughly one year ago. A few months after that statement this changed to "MT for vanity items, but not 'pay to win'". Some weren't too happy, most weren't bothered. After that, out of the blue we get a statement "plex for remap" was coming. This got reverted, seemingly due to negative feedback from the playerbase and CSM. Cue a new confirmation of "no MT bar for vanity items". Now we see internal documents dating from after that last confirmation speculating about "other options for MT and the fact that the playerbase will probably be opposed to that, which is why we don't talk about it" (paraphrasing). Concerns by the playerbase on this don't get addressed, and when we finally get a reaction after 2 days is completely misses addressing this point. Malice or incompetence, your call.

We get a new patch which, even with the feedback on Sisi which already warned would make it unplayable for quite a few, goes through anyway barring a lot of players from participating or in some cases even logging on. There's no communication whatsoever on this, nor on any of the other feedback on sisi-gathered data. Again: incompetence or malice?

A part of the playerbase is fed up. Some of them are protesting, some have quietly walked out, some are waiting to see what will happen and will decide in time. Another part if the playerbase isn't bothered, and may or may not find out in time if the changes have any effect on their gameplay. Yet another part seems to be happy to have something to troll and / or riot about. But do not look upon all protesters on the forums and in game as "terrorists".

Hoya en Marland
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:30:00 - [218]
 

Originally by: Eleena Wolf

I dont disagree with the protesting, I disagree with how people went about protesting.

And how would you do that?

So far these protests have been very friendly to the rest of the players. There's no large scale suicide gankings, no massive seeding of containers near gates or stations, no market crashes... shooting some structures in two trade hubs and occassional lag/short lockdowns of said systems cannot really hurt anyone. Protest is purely symbolic gesture, a message to CCP and medias, and that's all.

Escalation might happen but that depends only on CCP.

Ayame Yubari
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:30:00 - [219]
 

What's with the "terrorists" comment anyway? I've read that a couple of times now in anti-protest threads. What exactly makes people who protest by shooting at an indestructable statue in a virtual game world with their virtual weapons terrorists? Hilarious.

Warg Matar
Minmatar
The Red Circle Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.27 08:02:00 - [220]
 

Originally by: Ayame Yubari
What's with the "terrorists" comment anyway? I've read that a couple of times now in anti-protest threads. What exactly makes people who protest by shooting at an indestructable statue in a virtual game world with their virtual weapons terrorists? Hilarious.


The guy who wrote most of that crap was a noob asshat who got silenced by Fallout, afaik.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.06.27 08:45:00 - [221]
 

The funny thing is, all those moaning about the protesters and talking down to them, will happily accept any concessions given in the CSM meeting. Two faced much?

Wastelander Miccey
Posted - 2011.06.27 09:06:00 - [222]
 

I dont get it ?!?

1) Do you have to buy the items?
2) Will you be closed down if you dont??

3) How have you been dealing with PLEX before?
4) Is this drasticly changing that way?

1a If not, huu?? Why yappin....
2a No, then dont buy it...
3/4a No, then keep playing like before and ignore the items
and MT....

Eleena Wolf
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:49:00 - [223]
 

Edited by: Eleena Wolf on 27/06/2011 16:50:38
Originally by: Hoya en Marland
Originally by: Eleena Wolf

I dont disagree with the protesting, I disagree with how people went about protesting.

And how would you do that?

So far these protests have been very friendly to the rest of the players. There's no large scale suicide gankings, no massive seeding of containers near gates or stations, no market crashes... shooting some structures in two trade hubs and occassional lag/short lockdowns of said systems cannot really hurt anyone. Protest is purely symbolic gesture, a message to CCP and medias, and that's all.

Escalation might happen but that depends only on CCP.


continous to riotposting on all forum channels is certainly one way to go about, more threads have to be locked, more threads moved to the appropriate forum channel, that causes a fairly large hassle that would get ccps attention.

Playing on the chinese server after canceling subs, if people going to play an older version of the game is usaully a huge indication to game companies that something is wrong with their game in its current form.

annoying the hell out of gms by repeated organized petitioning

annoying your csm's to get intouch with ccp.

flooding eve support with emails inr egards to this.

but since you went to tradehubs to protest, that would have also been fine save for one thing, the moment it got released to the press. once people heard about this, and then found out what the reason behind said this was combined with ccp refusing to respond on this matter, it was over.

ccp needed to be smacked a few times, but this was more like putting a bullet ito the head of ccp, the csm meeting? last nerves firing of in the ccp's death throes.

o course if people are resubbing after this, than I will be happily proven wrong.


Carli Zandrya
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:51:00 - [224]
 

Originally by: Wastelander Miccey
I dont get it ?!?


Analogy:

Long time EvE subscriber:
Hello, I've been playing this great game since launch, and in doing so my character has accumulated over 50,000 skill points in PVP to blow up the bad/good guys. I am a god here.

New EvE subscriber + p2w (pay [for items] to win):
Hello, I found this great game just a few days ago, and in doing so my character has purchased 90 zillion AURUM for skill points and I now have over 100,000 of them to blow up the bad/good guys. I am a god here. Whats a warp core stabilizer anyway?

Capiche?

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:59:00 - [225]
 

Originally by: Carli Zandrya
Originally by: Wastelander Miccey
I dont get it ?!?


Analogy:

Long time EvE subscriber:
Hello, I've been playing this great game since launch, and in doing so my character has accumulated over 50,000 skill points in PVP to blow up the bad/good guys. I am a god here.

New EvE subscriber + p2w (pay [for items] to win):
Hello, I found this great game just a few days ago, and in doing so my character has purchased 90 zillion AURUM for skill points and I now have over 100,000 of them to blow up the bad/good guys. I am a god here. Whats a warp core stabilizer anyway?

Capiche?


What we have now:

Hello, I found this great game a few days ago, and I bought a 90M SP character with GTCs. I am a god here. Er.... How do I undock, again?

Play semantics and argue over the fine points all you like, but it boils down to this.

EVE has been P2W for a long time, now.

Mr Epeen Cool

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.06.27 17:10:00 - [226]
 

Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Carli Zandrya
Originally by: Wastelander Miccey
I dont get it ?!?


Analogy:

Long time EvE subscriber:
Hello, I've been playing this great game since launch, and in doing so my character has accumulated over 50,000 skill points in PVP to blow up the bad/good guys. I am a god here.

New EvE subscriber + p2w (pay [for items] to win):
Hello, I found this great game just a few days ago, and in doing so my character has purchased 90 zillion AURUM for skill points and I now have over 100,000 of them to blow up the bad/good guys. I am a god here. Whats a warp core stabilizer anyway?

Capiche?


What we have now:

Hello, I found this great game a few days ago, and I bought a 90M SP character with GTCs. I am a god here. Er.... How do I undock, again?

Play semantics and argue over the fine points all you like, but it boils down to this.

EVE has been P2W for a long time, now.

Mr Epeen Cool


Shhhh, facts confuse the mob... and a confused mob is a dangerou...
Scratch that, a confused mob is simply a typical mob. Laughing

Carli Zandrya
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.27 21:11:00 - [227]
 

Originally by: Mr Epeen

What we have now:

Hello, I found this great game a few days ago, and I bought a 90M SP character with GTCs. I am a god here. Er.... How do I undock, again?

Play semantics and argue over the fine points all you like, but it boils down to this.

EVE has been P2W for a long time, now.

Mr Epeen Cool



You are correct Mr Epeen in that regard, to a degree.

Here is the fly in your soup:
How many people would pay hundreds to thousands of dollars for a matured account? Not many.
How many people would pay a fraction of that price for AUR-only advantages? Far, far more.
Not the same impact.

I'm past this whole sub+MT=CCprofit thing anyway. It's now a matter of broken trust, a consumer/provider relationship flushed away. My own protest has been to not log on since this whole thing broke out in hopes they learned an important lesson here. If they haven't, have fun. Well see what comes out of this mess soon enough.

Fear the mob.


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