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blankseplocked Congratulations, Protestors. You've doomed your own cause.
 
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LIOZTH
Caldari
Divide By Zero
Dark Phoenix Rising.
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:16:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: LIOZTH on 26/06/2011 21:18:10
Originally by: Tron Flux
Originally by: kestrael nanahara
There not giving the impression that inmates are running the asylum.... becuase were all leaving.


If there is a major problem with NEX, it's that watching the train wreck of rage-quitters claim to quit without actually quitting on the forums is actually more entertaining than playing EVE at the moment.


I have 4 unsubbed accounts, with time still left on them, time I'll use to my advantage and make my point as needed. If they don't make changes they will stay as they are. At some point EvE will start it's violent subscription downward spira, and begin heading toward the MMO graveyard.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:18:00 - [62]
 

PsyWar attempt failed, OP.

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:19:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Meridian Siri
Originally by: Tron Flux

Thank you for the clue. In my opinion, businesses are not run by customers. They are run by executives and possibly investors. If losing you and others were not planned into CCP's strategy, shame on them for not taking that possibility into account. That's bad business.

But I think it was. Perhaps I'm wrong. In any case, breaking the rules you agreed to when you signed up to play shouldn't have any effect on anyone's business decisions. It should just get you banned.


Dude; you ever run a business? The customers sure as hell guide the direction of the business if the owners want to make money, which I believe is the goal of most businesses. I think that CCP may have underestimated the response of the player base on this so, like you said, bad business call.


I currently own one business, and I am the CEO of another. My opinion is different. In both cases, the business produces the highest quality product that we can envision, then we find markets for that product. If some people don't want it, that's fine with me.

I don't sit around listening to what people think they want and then try to cater to them. I build the best in the industries (two completely unrelated ones) and sell it to people who want it.

My RL wallet isn't hurting.

Anna Maziarczyk
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:20:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
If CCP has any sense at all--and I'm not sure if they do--the result of this meeting will be to accelerate the deployment of non-vanity items.

The reason for this is that CCP can't allow the perception that the inmates can run the asylum. If the execs make a choice that can be in any way construed as a victory for the bedlam of the last several days, it sets a bad precedent that violating the ToS in large numbers is an effective negotiating method.

People will go around wrecking trade hubs every time they feel like it, over any detail they decide they want. Given the insanity logic of many of the ragers, I really can't say they I want any of them in charge of the direction or future of the game.

The obvious way for CCP to get out of this with some semblance of credibility is to have the meeting, tell the CSM what's up, and move forward--most likely at a faster pace to show that they really mean it. If non-vanity items really weren't planned, they should throw them in there to make the point loud and clear. CCP doesn't play ball with virtual terrorists.

A secondary option would be to backtrack slightly, but invoke the banhammer mercilessly against everyone who has violated the ToS. That would be the equivalent of saying, "We hear you. But we don't accept the way you made your voice heard."

Frankly, I'd like to see some combination of both options. Rules that don't get enforced, or are enforced intermittently, aren't really worth much of anything. Either enforce the rules or change them.

In any case, there's not a good option for those of who decided to intentionally wreck the trade hubs. You've ruined your cause.

As a side-note, I wouldn't listen to the CSM either. Their polling methodology is horribly messed up. You can't toss a vote thread right into the middle of a bunch of massively biased people and take that as some representation of the population.

Vote threads here are like polling only republicans on election day and saying, "OMG! 95% of The People voted republican! How did any democrats get elected? OMG! CONSPIRACY!!! Sony bought the government!!!!"

If either CSM or CCP is interested in finding out what the community really thinks, they should send out surveys to random subscribers and pay them ISK or SP to complete the study and look at that data.

On the other hand, what I got from the leaked email is that they did a bit of real research with a good survey methodology and came to a conclusion. I hope CCP sticks to its guns on this because I don't want to play in a universe run by protestors that ruin certain parts of the game by breaking the ToS.

If I'm wrong, and CCP never did that research, have someone contact me. My company will be happy to do some real, scientific research on the eve players.

~Tron Flux



You point out a very interesting element to all this.

Who wears the $1000 pants in this relationship.

CCP Clearly, and i mean CLEARLY think *they* wearthe Ponts. But.....

Times. They are a'changin....


JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:20:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 26/06/2011 21:20:09
Originally by: Tron Flux

I currently own one business, and I am the CEO of another. My opinion is different. In both cases, the business produces the highest quality product that we can envision, then we find markets for that product. If some people don't want it, that's fine with me.

I don't sit around listening to what people think they want and then try to cater to them. I build the best in the industries (two completely unrelated ones) and sell it to people who want it.

My RL wallet isn't hurting.


And then you wake up ?

Lonox
Gallente
Hilmar is Lord
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:20:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Rayce Farelle
we do not needEVE.


Oh but you do, you do. Laughing

Come on guys, have some kool-aid! You know you want some.

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:21:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Mag's
OP is mad?


Apparently I'm rage-staying. Or something?

Thomas Orca
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:22:00 - [68]
 

I, too, want people to be banned for orbiting and shooting a useless space object.

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:24:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux


I currently own one business, and I am the CEO of another. My opinion is different. In both cases, the business produces the highest quality product that we can envision, then we find markets for that product. If some people don't want it, that's fine with me.

I don't sit around listening to what people think they want and then try to cater to them. I build the best in the industries (two completely unrelated ones) and sell it to people who want it.

My RL wallet isn't hurting.


Oh, this is good Laughing

Remember everyone, first produce products THEN find a market for them.

Also he owns one business and is the CEO of another Laughing




Kronir
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:25:00 - [70]
 

Terrorists is a word thrown around too often nowadays.

Just like in the 50s and 60s the word Communist was over used.

In both cases the people didn't understand the true meaning.

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:25:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: LIOZTH
Edited by: LIOZTH on 26/06/2011 21:18:10
Originally by: Tron Flux
Originally by: kestrael nanahara
There not giving the impression that inmates are running the asylum.... becuase were all leaving.


If there is a major problem with NEX, it's that watching the train wreck of rage-quitters claim to quit without actually quitting on the forums is actually more entertaining than playing EVE at the moment.


I have 4 unsubbed accounts, with time still left on them, time I'll use to my advantage and make my point as needed. If they don't make changes they will stay as they are. At some point EvE will start it's violent subscription downward spira, and begin heading toward the MMO graveyard.


You and I disagree. I don't think eve is headed to the graveyard. I think that the number of unsubs are an irrelevant drop in the bucket compared to the total subscriber base.

Essentially, I think you and your 4 accounts are irrelevant to CCP. You should probably start accepting that.

Lonox
Gallente
Hilmar is Lord
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:26:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Ghard Eleran
Edited by: Ghard Eleran on 26/06/2011 20:38:33
Originally by: Lonox
Originally by: kestrael nanahara
There not giving the impression that inmates are running the asylum.... becuase were all leaving.


You're stomping your little foot and threatening to leave if "teh ebil" CCP doesn't meet your childish and unrealistic demands. Laughing Even more hilarious? When you realised noone cares and started your emo rage asshat campaign. Funnier still? When you all come groveling back.

It will be awesome! LaughingLaughing


are our demands so childish and unrealistic? what do you think our demands exactly are? please enlighten me what is it i am protesting against?


It's like that scene in Starship Troopers where Mr. Spock said, "All too easy". Very Happy

Kristina Vanszar
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:27:00 - [73]
 

To make stuff clear:

The protest is not about MT anymore.
It's basically about all the bull**** happend in the past months or even the past year.

As many have ssaid, WE are the customers, so we shall have the power, and as we had to show, we are able to leave, Noone expects CCP to do exactly what we want, but if we say, something is a NOGO, then it is a damn NOGO!

The protest is working becouse we all are so upset about many things, be it the NEX, Ship spinning, overheating GFX Cards...

The glass is full now, and CCP is standing in front of a FISHTANK and a dude with a slashhammer in his hands,
what they do next will show if the guy will swing that hammer or not.

FireFoxx80
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:27:00 - [74]
 

To the OP, you are a moron.

People complaining about their precious trade hibs being busy, you are also morons. You can easily navigate around these systems, or remote trade.

People unsubscribed because they were lied to.

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:28:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Anna Maziarczyk


You point out a very interesting element to all this.

Who wears the $1000 pants in this relationship.

CCP Clearly, and i mean CLEARLY think *they* wearthe Ponts. But.....

Times. They are a'changin....




Perhaps things will change. That's a good enough song that I might want it to be true. Frankly, I doubt it.

Ayieka
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:28:00 - [76]
 

jesus, does every anti-protest poster talk down to people?

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:30:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny

Oh, this is good Laughing

Remember everyone, first produce products THEN find a market for them.

Also he owns one business and is the CEO of another Laughing






When I go bankrupt, I'll be sure to call on you as a consultant. ;)

Gabriel Grimoire
Amarr
Ascendent.
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:30:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Ayieka
jesus, does every anti-protest poster talk down to people?



Yes. They all spout self-righteous holier-than-thou rhetoric whilst fapping to a picture of themselves fapping.

Rumplefink
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:32:00 - [79]
 

He's Got A Monocle! GET HIM!

Eleena Wolf
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:32:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Eleena Wolf on 26/06/2011 21:33:01
I agree with the outcome, though not the reasons the op has stated.

The damage has already been done, doubtful that ccp walks away with any credibility after this, as perception is reality.

I would like to believe the csm meeting will have a positive impact, but it is most likely too little too late.
Media has already hammered ccp reputation and continues to do so. Many players have already stated open distrust of ccp, this compounded by the lack an official response, has damaged ccp even further.

I see this ending in one of a few ways.

1. eve loses enough subscribers, they have no recourse but to make mt of the bad kind part of eve, in an attempt to stay profitable.

2. Pride gets the better of ccp, they decide to stay course as it were, ensuring an exodus of older players in hopes of attracting new players. a huge, HUGE, gamble at best.

3. Ccp decides to cut its losses and sells the rights to another developer or competitor, even this does not garuntee eve's existence as an mmo. many times when a game developer sells to another, the buying party buys the rights to the code. That has ensured many games never see the light of day again, be it in the form of a sequel or a remake, because the new owner can charge whatever they want for licensing, royalties and what not.

4. If somehow ccp survives this, they fix whats wrong, actually talk to the playerbase, and certain someone issues an apology, eve still exist possibly better than it was. This given the history is the least likely to happen.

I hope im wrong and outcome #4 happens, but until proven otherwise, I stand by what i said.

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:32:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Ayieka
jesus, does every anti-protest poster talk down to people?



Does every protester have to act like a 2-year old with a dirty diaper?

Ayieka
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:34:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
Originally by: Ayieka
jesus, does every anti-protest poster talk down to people?



Does every protester have to act like a 2-year old with a dirty diaper?


so were you trying to be ironic when you typed in this sentence?

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:34:00 - [83]
 

If CCP is reading the tea leaves correctly they know they can't survive if this continues. While everything desired probably will not be given, I do see them making some backtracking.

Gabriel Grimoire
Amarr
Ascendent.
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:36:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
Originally by: Ayieka
jesus, does every anti-protest poster talk down to people?



Does every protester have to act like a 2-year old with a dirty diaper?


/doublef*ckingfacepalm

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:36:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Kronir
Terrorists is a word thrown around too often nowadays.

Just like in the 50s and 60s the word Communist was over used.

In both cases the people didn't understand the true meaning.


I agree, and I slightly regret the use of the word. But I did qualify it with "virtual." I'm kind of meh on the topic, hence the clarification that it depends on perspective, etc. I'm not going to edit to change it because it is certainly generating some decent non-flame conversation. It can stand. But for anyone still reading the thread, I'll admit to a certain amount of hyperbole in using that term.

~Tron Flux

P.S.
I'm supposed to be raging about something. So please insert some rage {here}

Dante Seth
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:36:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Desert Ice78
Your an idiot. Go away.


WHY do so many people use the wrong "YOU'RE" when saying this. OF ALL THE PLACES to make a grammatical error.

It's not that I disagree with what you are saying

Or that I am usually a grammar **** - but in this case... Really man use your (<--see this is when you use that one) non-idiotic brain.

Your: possessive (your brain needs exercise)

You're: from "you are" and used to identify an individual.

Eleena Wolf
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:37:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: El'Niaga
If CCP is reading the tea leaves correctly they know they can't survive if this continues. While everything desired probably will not be given, I do see them making some backtracking.


Entirely dependant on the state of mind of the investors, the ceo, the controlling part of ccp in general in regards to this matter. For them it may just be cheaper to cut losses and sell to someone else :/

R2 D3
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:39:00 - [88]
 

Tron Flux, as a person who isn't leaving, yet unhappy with the nex changes (as the majority of the customers) I think the main problem older players have (or at least I do and I believe other people with me).
Is the fact that CCP promised they wouldn't do this and yet they did.
Obviously they are free to enforce this changes if they feel that's the best direction.

Back in the day CCP wanted to charge 5 euro a month extra for players who used eve voice. When nobody used it they made it free. So if a certain option cost extra rl cash and isn't used because of it, it will change in the long run. So ccp did listen to the customers in the past.

Do you as a ceo irl ever make use of feedback or are used towards the 360 degree review concept?

regardless of the ccp are amateur whines I think they will decide for themselves of forcing vanity items and losing a lot of the current playerbase (but if it restores it will be a great oppurtunity for more money), or removing vanity items and keeping the current player base happy. Or the most likely option they will try to write dev blogs and end up with some vanity items anyway but not those who really affect the gameplay. (Like special weapons/ships).

last but not least if they did this research, there are still some patterns happening atm I can't imagine they expected in the research. I don't know wether or not you are familiar with the shell brent spar case? This is a lot like it imo.

Kamikazme
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:41:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Lonox
Originally by: kestrael nanahara
There not giving the impression that inmates are running the asylum.... becuase were all leaving.


You're stomping your little foot and threatening to leave if "teh ebil" CCP doesn't meet your childish and unrealistic demands. Laughing Even more hilarious? When you realised noone cares and started your emo rage asshat campaign. Funnier still? When you all come groveling back.

It will be awesome! LaughingLaughing


Only marginally less funny than fanboys like you sucking up!

Peace Out
Irie Forever
-K

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:43:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Gabriel Grimoire
Originally by: Ayieka
jesus, does every anti-protest poster talk down to people?



Yes. They all spout self-righteous holier-than-thou rhetoric whilst fapping to a picture of themselves fapping.


Hey. I look good. EVERYBODY COME SEE HOW GOOD I LOOK!


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