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blankseplocked Congratulations, Protestors. You've doomed your own cause.
 
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cecil b d'milf
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:42:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Le Sabre
Kinda putting every protester and everyone shooting the monuments into the same league there op.

I joined in the protests for one reason, I didn't agree with the way CCP had presented itself to its playerbase, or some of its decisions in the latest patch. So, I went there to make sure if there was a CCP alt, media reporter or someone similar taking numbers, I wanted to make sure I was counted as one of the people who were unhappy.

The protests had a good effect, both in CCP finally noticing that they were not getting the traction they wanted with the store/direction/attitude and also gaining the game a lot of publicity, if CCP can sort the mess out, the media no doubt will report on the resolution of the problems which as everyone knows, good publicity is good for our game and will help generate the revenue that they are seeking. Eve will then be 'business as normal' and everybody's happy.



this.

Everyone has there own reasons for raging... thing about incarna and the drama surrounding it that CCP managed to push so many different rage buttons, thus ensuring a total ****storm

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:43:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: i am jita
Edited by: i am jita on 26/06/2011 20:33:53

Originally by: Tron Flux
CCP doesn't play ball with virtual terrorists.


Obvious Fox News viewer. You sir are full weetard. Rolling Eyes


HAHA! Nice! But probably couldn't be farther from the truth. You can count me in the group that watches Jon Stuart for News and Fox News for comedy. :)

Torothanax
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:44:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Torothanax on 26/06/2011 20:45:34
Originally by: Olvel
Players insisting on a promise that non-vanity items will never, ever appear on the NEX would be equally idiotic.
Um not really. Unless CCP is seriously mismanaging thier income, they make PLENTY off of the subscription system they've used until now. I'd say most of the long term EVE players hate anything to do with MT's. It goes against everything Eve has ever been. That said, I also think most players don't have that much issue with "shiny" and "for looks" being charged for if it's done in a reasonable manner.

Not vanity items is a deal breaker for a very large chunk of their long term players though.

Kinta Huron
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:45:00 - [34]
 

Some really good points OP but your going to get a lot of hate from the drama idiots.

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:45:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Skex Relbore
This isn't a prison and it isn't an asylum . . . .


Then why can't you leave? You keep saying you are, and yet you're still here. Sounds like some sort of prison to me. Maybe it's just in your mind though.

Get Sum
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:47:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
If CCP has any sense at all--and I'm not sure if they do--the result of this meeting will be to accelerate the deployment of non-vanity items.

The reason for this is that CCP can't allow the perception that the inmates can run the asylum. If the execs make a choice that can be in any way construed as a victory for the bedlam of the last several days, it sets a bad precedent that violating the ToS in large numbers is an effective negotiating method.

People will go around wrecking trade hubs every time they feel like it, over any detail they decide they want. Given the insanity logic of many of the ragers, I really can't say they I want any of them in charge of the direction or future of the game.

The obvious way for CCP to get out of this with some semblance of credibility is to have the meeting, tell the CSM what's up, and move forward--most likely at a faster pace to show that they really mean it. If non-vanity items really weren't planned, they should throw them in there to make the point loud and clear. CCP doesn't play ball with virtual terrorists.

A secondary option would be to backtrack slightly, but invoke the banhammer mercilessly against everyone who has violated the ToS. That would be the equivalent of saying, "We hear you. But we don't accept the way you made your voice heard."

Frankly, I'd like to see some combination of both options. Rules that don't get enforced, or are enforced intermittently, aren't really worth much of anything. Either enforce the rules or change them.

In any case, there's not a good option for those of who decided to intentionally wreck the trade hubs. You've ruined your cause.

As a side-note, I wouldn't listen to the CSM either. Their polling methodology is horribly messed up. You can't toss a vote thread right into the middle of a bunch of massively biased people and take that as some representation of the population.

Vote threads here are like polling only republicans on election day and saying, "OMG! 95% of The People voted republican! How did any democrats get elected? OMG! CONSPIRACY!!! Sony bought the government!!!!"

If either CSM or CCP is interested in finding out what the community really thinks, they should send out surveys to random subscribers and pay them ISK or SP to complete the study and look at that data.

On the other hand, what I got from the leaked email is that they did a bit of real research with a good survey methodology and came to a conclusion. I hope CCP sticks to its guns on this because I don't want to play in a universe run by protestors that ruin certain parts of the game by breaking the ToS.

If I'm wrong, and CCP never did that research, have someone contact me. My company will be happy to do some real, scientific research on the eve players.

~Tron Flux


This might well be the most ******ed logic I ever read. You, kind sir, are a moron...

Korinne
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:50:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux


The reason for this is that CCP can't allow the perception that the inmates can run the asylum. If the execs make a choice that can be in any way construed as a victory for the bedlam of the last several days, it sets a bad precedent that violating the ToS in large numbers is an effective negotiating method.

~Tron Flux


Your initial premise is flawed. This is not a prison, if we desub we don't get shot. This is a consumer driven economy, thus your analogy is inherently flawed. In this case the inmates actually do run the prison, and the warden's job is to keep the inmates happy and not rioting; rioting in this case being the players raging and desubbing.

Ordon Gundar
Caldari
Celestial Enterprises Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:50:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
Originally by: Dimitri Fukoyama
Originally by: Tron Flux
CCP doesn't play ball with virtual terrorists.



Stopped reading there


Meh, fair enough. One person's protest is another person's terrorist. It's just a matter of perspective.

The British called the Colonies terrorists back in that Revolution thing. Who ends up being called what by the history books is determined by who wins.

If the Brits had won that war, the founding fathers would be remembered as the Osama bin Ladens of the late 18th century.

And that's kind of my point. If the protestors win, you become heros of eve against the evil CCP empire. CCP can't let that happen, or the whole game goes to crap. The protestors have to go in any reasonable scenario.


Founding fathers? You mean the French. Without our Froggie friends, North America would still be a colony.

CCP can chain the inmates if they like. Except this is business, and we are customers. If we leave, they die. EvE dies.

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:52:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Ordon Gundar
Originally by: Tron Flux
Originally by: Dimitri Fukoyama
Originally by: Tron Flux
CCP doesn't play ball with virtual terrorists.



Stopped reading there


Meh, fair enough. One person's protest is another person's terrorist. It's just a matter of perspective.

The British called the Colonies terrorists back in that Revolution thing. Who ends up being called what by the history books is determined by who wins.

If the Brits had won that war, the founding fathers would be remembered as the Osama bin Ladens of the late 18th century.

And that's kind of my point. If the protestors win, you become heros of eve against the evil CCP empire. CCP can't let that happen, or the whole game goes to crap. The protestors have to go in any reasonable scenario.


Founding fathers? You mean the French. Without our Froggie friends, North America would still be a colony.

CCP can chain the inmates if they like. Except this is business, and we are customers. If we leave, they die. EvE dies.


Actually the French showed up late and stopped the British from retreating into the sea Razz

APOLL0S
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:52:00 - [40]
 

Does anyone else kinda get the feeling like they've seen this all before?

Does anyone else remember the protests in the market hubs of Star Wars Galaxies when the Combat Downgrade was unceremoniously thrust on the player base?

CCP getting in bed with Sony for Dust could very well be the downfall of Eve.

Linkage

The whole thing reeks of John Smedley,

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:53:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Le Sabre
Kinda putting every protester and everyone shooting the monuments into the same league there op. . . .




Yes, you are correct. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think the shooting has anything much to do with making the systems too clogged to be unusable. It's the constant presence of people who are intentionally clogging it up that breaks the ToS, in my opinion.

For that reason, I don't see any substantive difference between the shooting and the non-shooting protestors.

And lest I sound like too much of a carebear, I would say this: you would probably have a better effect and possibly stay within the ToS if people organized a bunch of high-sec suicide gank fleets and just roamed around killing randoms. That would probably wake up a significant part of the eve population that doesn't care right now.

But the facade of a peaceful protest and the idea that you are all pulling some kind of a collective Ghandi is completely dishonest, childish, and a clear violation of the ToS. It deserves ban out of principle.

Montevius Williams
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:54:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Jacoba Stalker
Inmates running the asylum?

Gotta clue for you; PAYING CUSTOMERS run this business, and if CCP wants to assert their authority (which is well within their power and right to do), then the customers that do not wish to follow along blindly to the showers, can and will assert THEIR authority and vote them out of business by taking their money (i.e. the fuel that runs CCP) and put it in another gas tank.

All the while departing the scene with a single finger salute.


You're a ****ing idiot. I work for a company and customers pay for our service - last time I checked, they dont run our company - the managers do. GTFO

Skugge
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:56:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Scerolikk Teromni
Businesses are ruled by their customers.


With all respect, no. You create a need, then fill it. Only the most desperate prostitutes are ruled by their customers.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:56:00 - [44]
 

OP is mad?

Kinta Huron
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:56:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Kinta Huron on 26/06/2011 21:01:02
Edited by: Kinta Huron on 26/06/2011 20:56:58
Originally by: APOLL0S
Does anyone else kinda get the feeling like they've seen this all before?

Does anyone else remember the protests in the market hubs of Star Wars Galaxies when the Combat Downgrade was unceremoniously thrust on the player base?

CCP getting in bed with Sony for Dust could very well be the downfall of Eve.

Linkage

The whole thing reeks of John Smedley,
Shocked

Valentina Valentia
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:57:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Valentina Valentia on 26/06/2011 20:57:57
Originally by: Tron Flux
Perhaps I'm wrong - YES you are completely! In any case, breaking the rules you agreed to when you signed up to play shouldn't have any effect on anyone's business decisions. It should just get you banned - AND if the other side of the coin breaks there rules and agreements? How then shall they make restituation? Banned from the Office? [Fired, Releaved of duty, Sacked?... hmmmm?.


**Valentina takes Tron's internet spaceships from him and goes home**... I will not play with you in the sandbox if you are going to be a meanie!!! Evil or Very Mad

Meridian Siri
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:58:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux

Thank you for the clue. In my opinion, businesses are not run by customers. They are run by executives and possibly investors. If losing you and others were not planned into CCP's strategy, shame on them for not taking that possibility into account. That's bad business.

But I think it was. Perhaps I'm wrong. In any case, breaking the rules you agreed to when you signed up to play shouldn't have any effect on anyone's business decisions. It should just get you banned.


Dude; you ever run a business? The customers sure as hell guide the direction of the business if the owners want to make money, which I believe is the goal of most businesses. I think that CCP may have underestimated the response of the player base on this so, like you said, bad business call.

Le Sabre
Gallente
The Dead Canary Mining Corporation
Legion of Honor
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:59:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Le Sabre on 26/06/2011 21:00:51
Originally by: Tron Flux

And lest I sound like too much of a carebear, I would say this: you would probably have a better effect and possibly stay within the ToS if people organized a bunch of high-sec suicide gank fleets and just roamed around killing randoms. That would probably wake up a significant part of the eve population that doesn't care right now.

But the facade of a peaceful protest and the idea that you are all pulling some kind of a collective Ghandi is completely dishonest, childish, and a clear violation of the ToS. It deserves ban out of principle.


Going around shooting the playerbase you are trying to protect from bad design ideas is not going to help the protesters image really now is it? Also, if 2000 people go to jita and don't leave because they are all station trading, is this a breach of the tos/eula too?

There was a few spamming local with daft and downright vulgar things yes, but that's as far as the childish activity seemed to go from what I saw. Banning people from the game for making a collective stand and their voices/numbers noticed would create a massive amount of negative publicity for the game, which would probably be a lot worse for the game than any number of protests.

EDIT: Wanted to add that the protests themselves did not fall outside of the eula.

Randal Eirikr
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:01:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
Originally by: Skex Relbore
This isn't a prison and it isn't an asylum . . . .


Then why can't you leave? You keep saying you are, and yet you're still here. Sounds like some sort of prison to me. Maybe it's just in your mind though.


You're an idiot, and others have already clarified why.

Seriously, stop calling protesters terrorists and use your brain. We love the game just as much as you do, that's why we're still here.

rootimus maximus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:02:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
You can't toss a vote thread right into the middle of a bunch of massively biased people and take that as some representation of the population.


Yes, you can. It's called decisions are made by those who show up.

Captain Megadeath
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:04:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Lykouleon
Originally by: Tron Flux
If the Brits had won that war, the founding fathers would be remembered as the Osama bin Ladens of the late 18th century.


Butt-hurt Brit nationalist and/or Iranian nationalist detected... Confused


To have a full set, all this thread needs is an Irish Republica...ah never mind Wink Laughing


Twisted Evil

Slymah
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:05:00 - [52]
 

I'll take "Dumb Analogies" for $200 Alex!


Rayce Farelle
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:06:00 - [53]
 

OP, you are a complete moron.

Firstly, if YOU dont like the protests then YOU leave. Shooting the monument is NOT against EULA. Secondly, CCP needs income, we do not needEVE. We can go to any other game we like. We are paying customers, and if a business has a customer base that is unhappy then its a business looking at failiure.

Do you really think governments nowadays turn round and say to protesters, can you please kill yourself- leave this life, we don't want you around. I dont think so.

Within the rules, we can do what we like. which is what we did. STFU or leave

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:06:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Korinne
Originally by: Tron Flux


The reason for this is that CCP can't allow the perception that the inmates can run the asylum. If the execs make a choice that can be in any way construed as a victory for the bedlam of the last several days, it sets a bad precedent that violating the ToS in large numbers is an effective negotiating method.

~Tron Flux


Your initial premise is flawed. This is not a prison, if we desub we don't get shot. This is a consumer driven economy, thus your analogy is inherently flawed. In this case the inmates actually do run the prison, and the warden's job is to keep the inmates happy and not rioting; rioting in this case being the players raging and desubbing.


It's not a premise. It's actually the conclusion in this argument. It's also a figure of speech for goodness sake. But since it seems that so many people are unfamiliar with it, substitute "players" for "inmates", and "eve" for "asylum."

The level of reading comprehension here is depressing.

Maybe this will help: if A, then B. If B, then C. C is bad. C is something that CCP can't allow to happen. Does that clarify anything? I just happened to state that C can't happen before I explained why.

Good grief.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:09:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
Maybe this will help: if A, then B. If B, then C. C is bad. C is something that CCP can't allow to happen.
…except that C, in this case, is actually something that they can allow to happen, because it serves a great many beneficial purposes.

So we actually have ¬C, which means ¬B, which means ¬A.

Katrina Cortez
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:11:00 - [56]
 

PROTESTORS : "STAY THE COURSE"

Phosphorus Palladium
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:12:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: WachinDaGame DrinkinABud
...If it is pay to win, then I'm out.


The pay to win possibility has existed since the introduction of plex.
They are a kind of Microtransaction as well.

CCP has just taken the next step now, maybe because Plex are used a lot and that made them think more money can be earned this way.

I use plex - I buy them with my ingame isk and add gametime.
Still, I would prefer if they were removed as well as the Nex store and the new currency.

LIOZTH
Caldari
Divide By Zero
Dark Phoenix Rising.
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:12:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: kestrael nanahara
There not giving the impression that inmates are running the asylum.... becuase were all leaving.


^ This, if there are no results my hard earned cash will take our bow, perpetuum-online here I come. This isn't the only space game I have enjoyed and it probably wont be the last (I really do hope they fix some of this stuff), the best way to vote is though your hard earned cash - and with the Economy being what it is it speaks louder than words!

Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:13:00 - [59]
 

Im someone thats not happy with the current potential direction that the game is looking like it will go down. Now im not going to quit right now or claim that i have cancelled my subs but if in any way CCP does go down this road be it increased training time, ships, ammo or even just remaps i would quit and i know others would too. Personally im not happy as it is with the general implementation of Incarna im all for allowing WIS but forcing me to use it is a no no. Im not too keen on the NEX store even in it current form (I would prefer it scrapped altogether) either.

I would like to think im not a loony but also killing my accounts in some ways would be a good thing as it is i own almost 250 games on steam (including addons) and alot of those are either unplayed or uncompleted so the extra time would come in handy.

Account wise I have 4 which I own and I normally pay yearly subs for (And no i have not just paid them recently so i wont raging at having paid for a year which i wont want). Being uk based that amounts to roughly $150 per account in addition I have paid for effectively roughly another 3 accounts (im really generous for my friends when it comes to plex) so alone im about $1000 worth of business a year (or 15 or so Monocles) not a huge amount out of the money CCP earns but if 100 people like me quit thats a few peoples pay packets.

cyndrogen
Posted - 2011.06.26 21:16:00 - [60]
 

My guess is that the custom ships will cost AUR, putting custom decals and custom paint jobs will cost money but NOT the ammo or actual ships.

I think the protests are ridiculous considering that CCP has not revealed ANY plans for GOLDEN ships and ammo, it's mere speculation and hearsay.

Also you woud think that people would JUMP at the chance to get a goldem KM email, for ganking a golden ship....

I don't get the fuss


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