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Lyrrashae
Minmatar
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2011.06.27 14:54:00 - [1111]
 

Edited by: Lyrrashae on 27/06/2011 15:08:21
Edited by: Lyrrashae on 27/06/2011 15:05:23
Edited by: Lyrrashae on 27/06/2011 15:03:12
Edited by: Lyrrashae on 27/06/2011 15:00:24
Edited by: Lyrrashae on 27/06/2011 14:57:37
Originally by: CCP Fallout
Read Zulu's newest dev blog here

DE
RU


(Chuckles) Well, now!

I guess I'll just...How do you say it in CCP-speak?--Ah, right: Watch what you do, and not what you say, yes?

Because what you say will never, ever, EVER carry even the most infinitesimal scrap of credibility with me ever again, and this will never, ever, EVER again change, regardless of weather I un-sub in the next few weeks, or if I stay on the next 10 years.

Do the English words "credibility," "integrity," and "professionalism" not translate into Icelandic?

<sarcasm> Is that all this is, something lost in translation? </sarcasm>

Or have you people really crawled that far up the arse of your own success?

I got news for you, OK:

That success is BECAUSE OF US, YOU INCOMPETENT, SMUG, CONDESCENDING, INSUFFERABLY HAUGHTY DOUCHE-BAGS.

Have you crawled so far up the arse of the success we've given you that you are unwilling/unable to see just how laughably, horribly, massively (pardon the pun! On second thought, don't, it might teach you something) you've fail-scaded here? I'm honestly dying to know, because, frankly, this debacle just beggars belief...

Yes, I'm mad, bro. And I'm apparently far from the only one.

It's seriously become too depressing to even log in for more than a few minutes at a time anymore, anyway.

I wish I could have been here for the beginning in 2003--I wish even more that I wouldn't have been here for the whimpering, pathetic, contemptible end in 2011.

Oh, one other thing: Take a good, hard look at Infinity: Quest for Earth one of these days. That's what you could have been if you hadn't prostituted your artistic and professional integrity, and your ability to steer your own course as a company to Sony.

Was it worth it? Tell me in the most frank and brutal terms: Well, was it?

Sad...This is so very sad, and so very, very f***ing pathetic...ugh

CCP = Credibility Completely Pissed-away

(Multiple edits for typos and formatting. Sorry, I'm tired.)




Erien Rand
Posted - 2011.06.27 14:54:00 - [1112]
 

Originally by: Darius Sokarad
Two weeks left on this sub and no sign of anything being being done to stop this decline into insanity. I am not just a paying customer to an amusement park, but an active partner in creating the day to day content. I gladly pay for the privilege to be a partner and to indulge my creative outlet with thousands of others, but I cannot and will not be thought of as just another resource to be mined and tossed aside when I am used up.


Quoted for the hard hitting awesomeness of this statement

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.06.27 14:58:00 - [1113]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Buzzmong
@Trebor Daehdoow, Seleene, Mittens and the rest of the CSM:

When you get to Iceland, state unequivocally that:

1) Doing things outside of the CSM knowing (Nex prices) or completely ignoring the CSM (last dev blog) is a massive no-no and not only undermines the entire point of the CSM, but upsets the playerbase even more.

2) Full removal of the NeX store is the only way to fully go back and make up for this sheer sh*tstorm and restore the trust of the playerbase due to it being the only way to remove shadow of P2W that will now loom over EvE (actions speak louder than words).

3) It should always have been Space->Hanger->(optional) Captains Quarters+WiS, and it needs to be implemented as such due to CCP's own lore. It's especially important due to the performance issues people have been having and the fact the release of CQ is only 25% complete. It's up to CCP to develop features in CQ/WiS that want to make us leave the pods (they are planning on this anyway)

4) Communication needs to be improved massively. The current rules about Dev's not being able to speak their minds needs to be chucked out the window and the rules about not speaking on topics they don't know relaxed so that people can at least put some blue bars and go "I'll find out for you from the proper scrum team".

5) The Playerbase needs concrete information on what CCP's plans are with Incarna and it's expansions, and *needs* to find out what CCP are doing to fix the big problems with the core spaceship game.

I'll EvEmail this as well to the CSM members as I suspect you'll miss this.


Bears repeating. Would be good if CSM were able to cover these points during their meeting. Because Zulu's devblog sure didn't.


I can speak only for myself, but
I agree with points 1 (why we weren't consulted on price just baffles me).

Same with point 3. Optional CQ until/unless performance when docking is identical to that of the "non-CQ". At that stage it doesn't change anything except when it comes to metrics CCP use to determine how much people participate in InCarna

4 is a given. 5 as well.

I disagree with point 2. Done right, a NeX store for clothes/hairdos/painted ships can be a good thing. The content and pricing are obviously big big issues there however.

Janx, there's a list of CSM blogs in the CSM section of the forums.


I don't think the NEX store can be profitable as it is. To be profitable they'd have to have many low cost items, some mid cost items and then a few high cost items. Right now we just got high cost items. To reach its real potential it would have to be able to be afforded by most everyone that can play and well not everyone can afford 70 dollar monocles.

Having also come from SWG I'd much rather see player made clothing, food, beverages etc for our Walking in Station experience, plus it fits the game style more.

The main problem with NEX is apparently the stuff costs to much and is never destroyed. Yeah I can understand no one buying a 70 dollar monocle that is destructible. But if all you got is 12 items you really limit your sales. A 1 dollar shirt that dies when you clone dies if economical enough that the person will slap another dollar down to get a new one.

Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.27 14:58:00 - [1114]
 

Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 27/06/2011 15:03:35
a few thoughts..

Personally I like WiS (understandably the matari have crap lighting so i just stand and look at my back), its a great progression and extension of the eve universe (it also runs fine on an old 250 aka 9800series card)

Long time players of eve have had an understanding that WiS would be optional, if you didn´t want to leave your pod and spinning your ship, you still could, now it isn´t, everyone is being forced to join Incarna and frankly that was both arrogant and stupid and not only upset the players who provide the real game content but also the grunts within CCP that make and keep the game running, it was a trust betrayed.

WiS/Incarna was developed as an eve expansion, which are highly publicized by CCP as free and adding no cost to players, the reality is not what it was labeled and sold as. NeX is basically another revenue stream, PLEX being written off as pixels is being quite frankly money for nothing once the art and engine are paid for (take liability, package it up and make it disappear via selling pixels to a mug, its the derivatives scandal that crashed the world with a ingenious twist), and we paid the development costs understanding all eve related stuff via the eve client was free to use if specific in game character requirements were met.

If CCP had stuck to their promise that its optional, 90% of the players would have enabled it on at least one account to look; Hey!, there is new and different shiny if u press the “depod” button, how could anyone resist a look, its basic human nature. Retention rate would be variable at this stage, but when they added other faction CQ´s it would rise more, and finally when they open the door out of CQ and there were other people it will be really high.

What it comes down to is CCP need a big PLEX sink so liabilities against CCP are reduced, CCP did not fully understand the enormity of the RMT market that eve had produced it seems. PLEX is genius in so many ways and I can see that CCP want to fund the extra development costs for WiS/WoD by ridding them selves of PLEX liabilities instead of for actual service like connection time to the server, but they should be up front about and and set rigid areas where it can be utilized, make lots of external visual goodies like logo decals for corps, real pointless bling, then progress to contracting and paying for Dust players to do their thing planet side (that will probably need 0.0 being fixed beforehand).


CCP are treading a complex path; Hilmar, THE BOARD WANT TO FOLLOW THE CROWD WITH MT, they aren´t doing anything new, staying with a subscription at a price level above other´s is the FEARLESS thing to do with eve which is a UNIQUE PRODUCT, just don´t test the WoD revenue model in eve its dirtying up the sandbox, do that and you´ll have a happy cluster..



And yes until CCP explain game plan in grown up terms i´m un subbed, but atm doing CCP a favor by playing by plex. <edited> but yeah that is cost in cash to you unlike free pixels and a couple of Db entries, so you could be happier </edit>



Anah Karah
Drama Llamas
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:02:00 - [1115]
 

this is nothing more than a stunt.
You haven't ever listened to the CSM before, why would you start now?
Also using the words 'gold ammo' is just a roundabout way of not actually using any legally binding words so in future when you start selling items for $$$ and people call bull**** u can point out that, "Actually, we never said that...if you look carefully at this phrase..." BLA BLA BLA.

It seems that you really dont care how many members you lose over incarna, in fact everybody who has CQ turned off, is literally being shown the door.
How many are going to take it before you stop pulling stunts and actually listen?

GoodOleBoy
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:38:00 - [1116]
 

Well written Zulu. I agree that info taken out of context is no info at all. However, remember that actions speak louder than words and silence will always be filled by someone. Please ensure that a devblog, press release or some form of communication comes out on 2 JUL. Also, don't NDA the CSM after the meeting. Let them speak their thoughts and tell how it really is. If your company passes the common sense test and the majority of the CSM agrees with the COLLECTIVE CCP/CSM decision on how to address the Incarna issues, then you'll have enough friendly "official" voices filling the current silence to recover from this. If that doesn't happen the future of your company is at risk. Not a threat, especially since many like me will probably stick around for months until yearly subs run out, but a simple fact. Alienate the vets and alliances will fall apart. Once than happens, the core that you've built this game on will follow and the whole thing will begin to circle the toilet. I still like EVE so please don't let that happen.

Koronakesh
Amarr
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:38:00 - [1117]
 

VnV Nation - The Farthest Star This is our theme song right now, ccp ::love::

The will to greatness clouds the mind
Consumes the senses, veils the signs
We each are meant to recognize.
Redeeming graces cast aside
Enduring notions, new found promise,
That the end will never come.

We live in times when all seems lost,
But time will come when we'll look back,
Upon ourselves and on our failings.

Embrace the void even closer still,
Erase your doubts as you surrender everything:

We possess the power,
If this should start to fall apart,
To mend divides,
To change the world,
To reach the farthest star.
If we should stay silent.
If fear should win our hearts,
Our light will have long diminished,
Before it reaches the farthest star.

Wide awake in a world that sleeps
Enduring thoughts, enduring scenes.
The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost,
From a dead man to a world.
Without restraint, unafraid and free.

We possess the power,
If this should start to fall apart,
To mend divides,
To change the world,
To reach the farthest star.
If we should stay silent.
If fear should win our hearts,
Our light will have long diminished,
Before it reaches the farthest star.

If we fall and break,
All the tears in the world cannot make
us whole... again.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:52:00 - [1118]
 

The clamps are on PHASE 2 begins.

Blocking users on youtube to clean up videos.
Next banning users who spoke up.
Then the new forums.
All is sweet.

islador
Gallente
Frontier Explorer's League
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:57:00 - [1119]
 

Edited by: islador on 27/06/2011 16:04:03
"I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what [CCP] do and less of what they say."

Randolph Meza
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:00:00 - [1120]
 

Haven't they sold ships (shuttle?) and faction standings before with the boxed Eve client?

Also, I can buy a titan pilot and titan right now for isk. Quit crying.

"but but but"

Again, quit crying. HTFU. 90% of players in High Sec? That means 90% of you complainers are carebears and your opinions don't count about skillpoints or ship purchases.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:14:00 - [1121]
 

Originally by: Randolph Meza
90% of players in High Sec? That means 90% of you complainers are carebears and your opinions don't count about skillpoints or ship purchases.


Have to call that out. Ships are made in highsec occasionally. With minerals and stuff.

Gethis Stark
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:15:00 - [1122]
 

Originally by: Randolph Meza
Haven't they sold ships (shuttle?) and faction standings before with the boxed Eve client?

Also, I can buy a titan pilot and titan right now for isk. Quit crying.

"but but but"

Again, quit crying. HTFU. 90% of players in High Sec? That means 90% of you complainers are carebears and your opinions don't count about skillpoints or ship purchases.


Aaand this make your opinion worth what? Every subscribers opinion counts just cause you have a different game play style doesn't make you right, comments like that just make you pretentious.

Pierced Brosmen
Priory Of The Lemon
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:16:00 - [1123]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Not a problem. We have CCP Xhagen on our side. Those who have seen him will understand. He's a full-on Viking Berserker with a mohawk.

Also, the main conference room is easily defensible, we could hold out in there for weeks.


From reading your blogs, as long as CCP don't manage to bribe Mittens with bacon, I think you'll do fine Wink

Looking forward to hear how the session goes. Save our EVE

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:17:00 - [1124]
 

CCP has always seemed to be generally run by good people. I'll wait to hear what comes out of the CSM meeting.

Lysander Kaldenn
Dead Reckoning.
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:19:00 - [1125]
 

CCP's thought process:

Micro-transactions are the new hip billing concept!

Design pretty clothes and boobies to support them.

Now we can have micro-transactions!

Releases 70 dollar monocles.

These dudes get it guys. We'd better just let them run with it, since they understand games and marketing in general so much better than us.

Dear CCP, every other MT based group of devs are laughing at you. You're trying to implement a concept that you obviously don't understand in the slightest. You really, really just don't ****ing get it do you?


Xantor Bludberry
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:19:00 - [1126]
 

CCP, you f....ing killinh whole Eve`s BACKSTORY!!

Lolmer
Amarr
Merciless Reckoning
Executive Solution
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:20:00 - [1127]
 

Edited by: Lolmer on 27/06/2011 16:22:50
Edited by: Lolmer on 27/06/2011 16:22:13
Originally by: CCP Zulu
...there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum."


Yes, we've heard that before when we were told there would be no microtransactions in this game, and that faction warfare would be iterated on, and that Captain's Quarters would be optional, and that ... need I go on?

Walk the walk, don't just talk the talk, then maybe we'll trust you again. Perhaps if you (as a company, not you CCP Zulu in particular) didn't have a reputation for not honouring your prior statements the Fearless release wouldn't have caused such a stir. We'd also be more inclined to believe that these are just suppositions and theorycrafting with no intention of going all out, but then, read the beginning of my post again.

Personally, I still like CCP Soundwave and think he's great for the game, even though I don't agree with all of his opinions. :)

Rilliankar Khan
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:26:00 - [1128]
 

Mr. Gylfason, your blog means nothing more than you're trying to buy more time.

Quote:
I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect


Trust and respect are broken since the moment you began to watch us as wallets to be drain. Depending on how much you will DO to restore that trust, it might be partially repaired to some level.

Quote:
there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum


You're not addressing the problem. What about "gold ships", "gold mods", "gold standings", "gold super-caps"? You have to say: "there are no and NEVER WILL BE ANY plans to sell non-vanity items and/or services that put in disadvantage some customers in benefit of other ones".

Quote:
The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE.


This means you DO have plans to sell non-vanity items and services, and you want to NEGOTIATE that with CSM. This means you were lying some lines before in the same blog. Really want to repair mutual trust?

If you want to buy time so be it, but the game will suffer from this. No goods will be produced for the market, accounts will be closed, etc etc.

Time is ticking.

Tek Handle
Biotronics Inc.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:35:00 - [1129]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
Ill watch what you do not what you say.

Cyberus
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:39:00 - [1130]
 


Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.27 17:00:00 - [1131]
 

Originally by: Nali Kceb
I am delighted to hear you have a meeting with your CMS about this.

Customer Management System.
Typo, or freudian slip - you decide.

Edward Aivo
Posted - 2011.06.27 17:13:00 - [1132]
 

Originally by: Lyrrashae
Edited by: Lyrrashae on 27/06/2011 15:08:21
Edited by: Lyrrashae on 27/06/2011 15:05:23
Edited by: Lyrrashae on 27/06/2011 15:03:12
Edited by: Lyrrashae on 27/06/2011 15:00:24
Edited by: Lyrrashae on 27/06/2011 14:57:37
Originally by: CCP Fallout
Read Zulu's newest dev blog here

DE
RU


Do the English words "credibility," "integrity," and "professionalism" not translate into Icelandic?




I assure you that those words do translate to icelandic, and here they are: "trúverđugleiki"= direct translation is "worth of belief", "heiđarleiki", and "atvinnumennska". Just trying to help :D

Sheila Sarani
Posted - 2011.06.27 17:14:00 - [1133]
 

Edited by: Sheila Sarani on 27/06/2011 17:14:59
I would prefer ccp sell eve to sony than introduce non vanity items.

At least there isnt 100% sure sony would destroy eveCrying or Very sad

And that is telling a lot as im SWG refugeeCrying or Very sad

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.06.27 17:36:00 - [1134]
 

Edited by: jackaloped on 27/06/2011 17:41:02
CSM PR STUNT


This is just amazing. So you need to talk to mittani and company to decide what the players think of non vanity items being sold as mt? Until you consult with them you don't know what the players think?

Please don't even try to turn this into some fluff piece about how well CCP listens to the players through the csm. You guys are too much to stomach.


Originally by: Shandir
Originally by: Nali Kceb
I am delighted to hear you have a meeting with your CMS about this.

Customer Management System.
Typo, or freudian slip - you decide.

Frye Urass
Ghost Militia
SRS.
Posted - 2011.06.27 17:41:00 - [1135]
 

I believe that this whole thing has to do with The deal with Sony and Dust 514.

Why did Sony really get the exclusive?...XBOX would have been more logical the choice, most likely as it is has a much border player base.

So CCP did you sell us out to Sony?, because MT has to be apart of that deal, and you must tie it into EVE?

AUR being the Dust Currency, and for EVE players to interact with them...ie. Hiring Dust Mercs to squash our EVE Rivals has to be paid in AUR,

So with Incarna, (not really being about WIS, as previously purposed) I mean all these years you have been developing Incarna, you can only model 1 friggin" room for the avatars... Please..is your development staff been on extended vacation our something?

The real Incarna now show's it's ugly head,with your loyal customer base being sold out to Sony ,and diverted to the new Micro Transactions pay model.

So instead of coming clean with the EVE Community, you just try to sneak one by us, thinkin' OH hell they won't mind, They will probably want a little more Bling.

Whatever the real deal is with Dust and Sony, is no real concern, as far as CCP, you can run your business as you see fit. After all it is your Business, but when you just totally turn your backs on your bread and butter.to go after some "Golden Carrot" for future revenue, What did you expect we would do... just lie down like dogs and wag our tails....Give us a Break will ya.

Personally I think you have too much faith in the fact Dust514 somehow is going to be some sort of saving grace for CCP.
I mean you don't actually believe EA and the other FPS game developers (With established,and proven Titles) are gonna just lay down and allow CCP to muscle in on their Market Share do you. Maybe your new Buddy Sony can help you out with that!

Good Luck....CCP









Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.27 17:41:00 - [1136]
 

DISCLAIMER:
The views put forward in
this Dev Blog do not reflect
general CCP company policies
or decisions and are strictly
individual opinions, written by
CCPers or about CCPers who
feel strongly about these issues.
This is confidential internal
information. Please respect that
every company has its trade
secrets and that you are privy to
those at CCP

M4sterm1nd
The Grimreapers.
Destiny Corrupted.
Posted - 2011.06.27 17:43:00 - [1137]
 

Jezus.... just watched that Pay2Win presentation. I really wouldn't have expected this, but I now support P2W in Eve.

The theoretical basis is sound, and as one of the players that is looking forward to beating "the fat banker with the advantage-giving wheels" I say kudos to CCP for taking such a daring step for the sake of their company.

InUrJita CheckinUrPrice
Posted - 2011.06.27 17:43:00 - [1138]
 

Sorry Zulu, but I've already dumped you. I know it's hard to lose that kind of relationship, especially when I'm the one who always pays for lunch, but I couldn't handle the deception, the talking with other games behind my back, and your generally dismissive attitude toward my feelings. I've started seeing other games, and you aren't one of them anymore.


tl;dr:

C U IN PERP.

Chip Packer
Posted - 2011.06.27 17:48:00 - [1139]
 

Zulu, Fallout. Shhh. Let it blow over. Sometimes it's better to say nothing. You're first post did not need another one or an apology. It was fine. Right now, you're just feeding the emotion. Let everything settle in peoples minds. Some people are so emotional on this that they aren't going to listen anyway. Continue to be fearless and talk about what needs to be talked about.

All the Best, Chip

000Freedom Fighter000
Posted - 2011.06.27 17:52:00 - [1140]
 

Much better response, thanks Zulu.
I look forward to seeing how the situation develops, and how the EVE playerbase responds to actions taken from now onwards. Smile


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