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Sensual Blue
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:56:00 - [931]
 

Edited by: Sensual Blue on 27/06/2011 02:57:32




The only thing I want to hear from CCP for EVE Online.


Never bonus items for real money.

For ever.









Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:56:00 - [932]
 

Originally by: Zephy Russ
Quote:
This stinks; especially because you can just pretend you're consulting the whole community rather than a few middlemen who only got voted in by a tiny fraction of the eve players (alliance mates for example)


No pubbie voting, no pubbie representation.


I'm altogether willing to wait this one out and see how it goes.
And you guys somehow think Alliances wouldn't give a **** if their industrial segments had no meaning?

There's an unhealthy amount of cynicism going around.

chrss2129 Erata
Posted - 2011.06.27 02:58:00 - [933]
 

Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 02:40:39
Ok just read the devblog for the 5th time.

It says "We are pushing ahead."

Quote:
to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.


Quote:
agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve


"Hi CSM, we are doing this. Nope can't change that, agree? Good."

Oh, right, because 'virtual goods' can't possibly refer to just clothing and war paint and the like, it must refer to uber modules, ships, and ammo! Rolling Eyes


Has CCP given a solid answer to the contrary?

Thought notRolling Eyes

Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:00:00 - [934]
 

Originally by: chrss2129 Erata
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 02:40:39
Ok just read the devblog for the 5th time.

It says "We are pushing ahead."

Quote:
to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.


Quote:
agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve


"Hi CSM, we are doing this. Nope can't change that, agree? Good."

Oh, right, because 'virtual goods' can't possibly refer to just clothing and war paint and the like, it must refer to uber modules, ships, and ammo! Rolling Eyes


Has CCP given a solid answer to the contrary?

Thought notRolling Eyes
To you, perhaps.

Why don't you take the stance of Talsa: "So I will give them the benefit of doubt for the next week.
I have till the 10th left to rage :)"

But of course even if you do get a 'solid answer', your type will just claim that it's all lies and slander anyway.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:04:00 - [935]
 

Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 03:15:49
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Oh, right, because 'virtual goods' can't possibly refer to just clothing and war paint and the like, it must refer to uber modules, ships, and ammo! Rolling Eyes


You're right, CCPs financial team of ruthless bankers doesn't like money.

edit:

Look around. There are already threads from people saying "I can accept this much.... but I want my items to mean something and give me actual benefits if I'm paying that much"

How long do you think CCP will hold against a threadnaught of "I want my monocle to give me a perception bonus!"?

Market. Demand.

CCP has been *very* clear on this point.

They will adjust MT based on player demand.



While the whole time driving the wedge deeper, until the market is ready to accept everything for pay.

Zephy Russ
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:05:00 - [936]
 

Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Originally by: Zephy Russ
Quote:
This stinks; especially because you can just pretend you're consulting the whole community rather than a few middlemen who only got voted in by a tiny fraction of the eve players (alliance mates for example)


No pubbie voting, no pubbie representation.


I'm altogether willing to wait this one out and see how it goes.
And you guys somehow think Alliances wouldn't give a **** if their industrial segments had no meaning?

There's an unhealthy amount of cynicism going around.


Did I say that? All I said was that pubbies complaining about not getting a CSM rep have only themselves and their introspective carebear ways to blame.

I've done my part in the protesting, the ball is in CCP's court at the moment, there's little point in continuing to swing the raquet.


Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:05:00 - [937]
 

Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 27/06/2011 03:08:43

Originally by: Constantinus Maximus


Ok just read the devblog for the 5th time.

It says "We are pushing ahead."

Quote:
to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.


Quote:
agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve


"Hi CSM, we are doing this. Nope can't change that, agree? Good."



Spot on.

Less than a week of virtual goods and there is a "strategy" requiring iteration no less - it would be great if other sections of the game shared this high level of after-care and 'iteration'.

PS - Slyphi got it spot on too. Your choice of wording makes your intentions transparent Zulu.

Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:05:00 - [938]
 

I'm going to cite something: This is a CSM meeting. You people do realize that means CCP is footing the bill, on short notice, on intercontinental flights. If this was about greed, would they bother? Perhaps it is a 'delay tactic', but that's still a damn expensive tactic, even for a few monocles. I've flown intercontinental. It cost me $1k, and that was the cheapest I could find a couple months out. Within a week, for how many people?

What am I bothering typing this for, though. The people who this argument would be directed against are going to look at everything as deceit and deception, lies and slander, no matter what.

Helena Russell Makanen
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:07:00 - [939]
 

+10 - this is prophetic. It is what I suspect will happen. Well said.


Originally by: Vyktor Abyss
Very disappointing.

You failed to answer the question yet again:

"Will you be going beyond micro-transactions for vanity items only?"

And

It is obvious by omission that you actually planned on doing so (despite promising you'd never do this on previous occasion), so much so that you now need an "emergency" meeting with the CSM to 'discuss' this issue.

Otherwise, why would you require any "emergency" meeting unless you want to break your previously stated commitment.

This stinks; especially because you can just pretend you're consulting the whole community rather than a few middlemen who only got voted in by a tiny fraction of the eve players (alliance mates for example) and who you tend to ignore anyway according to past CSMs just so you can use the kop-out phrase "we consulted the CSM" to explain why you'll be screwing over the rest of us and doing exactly what you planned regardless.

I expect a full-on CCP charm offensive to try to coerce and cajole the CSMs on their 2nd free holiday to Iceland, then if that doesn't work... a lot of waving the threatening non-disclosure agreements if they don't yap like lap-dogs at whatever crap you try to pedal them.

If the CSM have any integrity they will absolutely refuse to budge on this game ruining issue and mass resign if/when CCP try to go beyond vanity MTs just to make it clear.

I fully expect them to fail in this though and come back using phrases like "We did our utmost BUT..." and "We have to be realistic about this..."

Death throes of a dying game.



Mi Sing
Caldari
Crusaders Transcendancy
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:07:00 - [940]
 

CCP Zulu,

This is a better blog then your last one, in both tone and content. The idea of the meeting with the CSM is nothing but a stalling tactic, but I can also see the good side of a face to face meeting with them. They can look into your eyes and judge for themselves about what CCP is telling them. I do have a suggestion about the meetings though. Allow the CSM to comment in their own way, in either their own blogs, or on the forums, without ANY interference from you. No editing, no prior approval and most certainly no NDA directly related to this meeting.

Your wording of "no 'gold ammo'" is a poor choice, and leaves CCP open do what they wish, as long as there is no 'gold ammo'. I am choosing to think it is just that, poorly worded, not telling the truth without telling the true meaning. If you come out with a statement about non-vanity MT, it needs to be very precise, without twisting words and meanings open. And it also need to be from Hilmar, since he is the only one that can not be overridden later. The CSM must be able to confirm both the statement, and the meaning.

Right now, we are, to paraphrase Hilmar, watching what you do, not what you say. The ball is in your court. If you go back on your word to us again, I fear that there will be some more rage in the forums. But that will be short lived and followed by the sound of crickets as we just leave in disgust. The next move is yours and we are waiting.

Goodluvins
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:09:00 - [941]
 

Fvck you idiots. I mean....seriously? lols. "hey guys, I know we said we have no plans for MT in eve a year ago, but let me assure you, we have no plans for gold ammo."
General Poster: Herp. Go CSM, im sure glad to see your lips wrapped tightly around CCP's lovebone in acknowledging that who knows what the future holds, but I bet you'll really get our views acrossed unskewed.
General Poster 2: How do I remove a monocole from an anus?

If you love this game, say "Fvck these polesmokers" by unsubbing and STAYING that way unless they come outright and give a clear, written agreement on NO MT OTHER THAN VANITY.

Narf Commandude
Minmatar
Gladiators of Rage
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:09:00 - [942]
 

Thank you for the apology

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:10:00 - [943]
 

Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 03:11:06
Originally by: Mi Sing
And it also need to be from Hilmar


and signed by his overlords the bankers who tell him exactly what he can and can't do.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Helena Russell Makanen
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:12:00 - [944]
 

This made me laugh and today I didn't think anything related to Eve would. CSM to Iceland = Public Relations stall tactic... so they gain 10 days or so of not saying anything at all because it might taint 'our huge historic meeting with the fabulous CSM' lol. 2 accounts out. Am sick of this. Am just surprised the CSM is going for it and participating in this joke.

Originally by: Marlona Sky
Hopefully the minutes of this emergency meeting will be as informative as the minutes from the May summit. Just so everyone knows what I'm talking about can someone link the May summit minutes for me?... Anyone?... Hello??

*cricket* *cricket* *cricket*

Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:17:00 - [945]
 

Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 27/06/2011 03:21:08


I'm sorry to say that, but you're as clueless as you were back in 2008 answering players questions as CCP Zulupark.

CCP Greyscale is no better btw - see my sig.

Have you sacked all the sane people out there who can actually communicate and get the game developed according to its old solid principles?

Zachstar
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:25:00 - [946]
 

As long as we can continue to take small steps here and there and not dig the hole any deeper we can eventually dig our way out of this crisis.

I accept the blog and will wait for the results of the meeting with CSM.

DoctorMolotov
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:25:00 - [947]
 

What you do, not what you say.

Garwill
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:27:00 - [948]
 

Originally by: Zachstar

I accept the blog and will wait for the results of the meeting with CSM.


Headless lemming.

Sarahphim KTS
Caldari
3D Salvage and Acquisitions
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:29:00 - [949]
 

So your primary response is that you won't respond...

Players: WTF? CCP why won't you communicate with us?
CCP: We aren't going to discuss this for another week and then we MIGHT talk to those of you bound by NDA. Cry moar tears, please.
Players: Confused
CCP: Move along here people, nothing to see here. Move along.

Sounds like more great PR from CCP. Did Zulu and Pann work for the Bush Administration before they came to CCP?

I'm not going to unsub or anything, but it would be nice if you would answer our ligitimate questions with real answers. I've been through this in another game and I know that cash stores aren't the end of the world and can actually benefit the game, but you are botching it horribly. I do want to see CCP succeed and I do want to see Eve continue but alienating the player base by refusing to communicate isn't the way. Rolling Eyes

Sarahphim KTS

Sollunux
Gallente
Dawn's Requiem
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:31:00 - [950]
 

After reading through all the comments I feel there is a point that was missed though I'm putting this here a bit late.

CCP is a corporation. As such, they will do whatever they determine will yield them more money. There is nothing else to it. As long as it stands that introduction of game changing items for money will cause them to lose money they will not do it.

I personally feel that the protests and uproar are good. It serves to point out that the above requirement is true and further more points out that they are on a fine line that people feel is too close, so they can understand what will happen if they go any further.

So for now, I'm not worried about them making the game changing items and as for the vanity items, they are way too over priced, but prices can be adjusted for demand, just like everything else in EvE.

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:34:00 - [951]
 

u a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.


HOW COULD THIS BE ANY MORE CLEAR??? That practically says Aurum will be for vanity items only.

Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:34:00 - [952]
 

I see, CCP need time. :DDDDD
But...

Dear CCP Zulu, CCP why need to speak to CSM for change monocles price ? :D

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:35:00 - [953]
 

Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 03:36:39
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 03:36:25
Originally by: Sarahphim KTS
CCP: We aren't going to discuss this for another week and then we MIGHT talk to those of you bound by NDA. Cry moar tears, please.


NDA should be nullified for this meeting.

Can see it getting to a point where CSM says "CFO... I could go leak this now and your position would only IMPROVE!"
The bankers are so far from human that they'll just make more threats.

edit: transparency and honesty, might, doubtfully have some hope of saving their ass. They don't understand the value of honesty though.

Ulmon Aulen
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:35:00 - [954]
 

Much much better. I'm still skeptical, but definitely a step in the right direction. As long as the outcome of the meeting with the CSM is no MT outside vanity items, consider me completely satisfied.

Ashina Sito
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:35:00 - [955]
 

Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
I'm going to cite something: This is a CSM meeting. You people do realize that means CCP is footing the bill, on short notice, on intercontinental flights. If this was about greed, would they bother? Perhaps it is a 'delay tactic', but that's still a damn expensive tactic, even for a few monocles. I've flown intercontinental. It cost me $1k, and that was the cheapest I could find a couple months out. Within a week, for how many people?

What am I bothering typing this for, though. The people who this argument would be directed against are going to look at everything as deceit and deception, lies and slander, no matter what.


Flying round trip Icelandic Air from Boston will run about.... 20 monocles.

Crystal UK
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:38:00 - [956]
 

Originally by: Algathas
I will keep my accounts unsubbed while I wait for a real answer.

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:40:00 - [957]
 

Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
u a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.


HOW COULD THIS BE ANY MORE CLEAR???


lol

Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
That practically says Aurum will be for vanity items only.


lololololol

u be trippin or trollin?

Photon Ceray
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:45:00 - [958]
 

Zulu, you think you're smart?

"we have no plans of selling gold ammo", I bet you have never had plans of selling rubber ammo either, and no platinum tires and 1 gazillion specific items.

How about trying to be fraking honest for once?

Nobody is asking you to lie and say there have "never" been plans to do that, there WERE plans so don't try to lie about it, just say:

NO NON-VANITY ITEMS FOR MONEY from now on!

Don't mess with the customers, they have way more power than you.

Zephy Russ
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:50:00 - [959]
 

What he said was "gold ammo" in quotation marks. That does not denote a specific item, at the very least it refers to premium ammo full stop and likely refers to more than that.

Ranita Drell
Intaki Liberation Front
Posted - 2011.06.27 03:59:00 - [960]
 

Edited by: Ranita Drell on 27/06/2011 05:34:59
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
HOW COULD THIS BE ANY MORE CLEAR??? That practically says Aurum will be for vanity items only.

The following would be more clear:

Quote:
"We are telling our customers here and now, without equivocation, that we will never sell non-vanity, game-affecting goods or services in EVE online through micro transactions."


or:

Quote:
"We have no intention to sell non-vanity or game-affecting goods and services. However, we reserve the right to be responsive to market demands as well as financial realities, and change our position on this in the future so we're free to produce the best possible game we can in EVE Online.

Because we sympathize with our players' concerns and understand that they require some assurance on this front, we are announcing a moratorium on non-vanity microtransactions for a period X months/years. In addition, the community has our word that should we change our stance regarding MTs for game-affecting items, we will immediately make an announcement to that effect to the community, and give at least X months notice to our customers before any non-vanity MT-purchasable items go live on Tranquility."


See, "practically" isn't good enough. CCP has changed its plans in the past and will do so in the future. It may even fully intend to enter the realm of non-vanity MT and simply hasn't laid out a formal plan to do so. So Zulu's post is too ambiguous, providing a lot of room for interpretation and equivocation. I would like to see something a lot more concrete, substantive and (if necessary) candid.

If you haven't noticed, trust in CCP isn't exactly at an all-time high right now. It's not the time for them to get fancy with metaphors and loose with their language in their PR.


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