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Luke S
Zeta Corp.
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:32:00 - [841]
 

Originally by: Tsu Hak
Edited by: Tsu Hak on 26/06/2011 19:01:43
TOO LATE CCP AND NOT ENOUGH


CCP Zulu already murdered 2 of my accounts by the crap he posts

RIP both


Annie *28.3.2007 to June 2011

and

Ivy *26.12.2009 to June 2011





That's your own damn fault Tas hak. Dont blame CCP for your actions.

When I saw people say/do what you did, I was shocked you would make such of a harsh decision based on rumors and speculations.

Now go back to WoW and QQ like they do.

Originally by: Annie Anomie
Better.


same.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:34:00 - [842]
 

Edited by: Sturmwolke on 26/06/2011 23:35:43
A bit better than the last inflammatory blog.

Whatever your reasons were to be irritated/miffed/angry about those leaks (I assume), reflect instead on the fundamental core reasons WHY it happened and the motivations that drove such acts. Look inwards instead of trying to lay blame. House CCP is in bedlam. You've overstretched yourselves and its effects isn't difficult to see - screw ups followed by screw ups ... some even predicted several months back.

Whether this latest blow up was intentional or unintentional, the EVE community does not have an inexhaustible goodwill nor patience. You're slowly eroding these precious commodities (which takes a lot of time to build). All these grief, monetary loss and muddied reputation to CCP could have been avoided had you pulled your heads from the clouds.

/me shakes his head in disgust and disbelief.

edit:clarity

Estelle McDeal
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:37:00 - [843]
 

Calling in CSM to Iceland to talk to our "representatives"?

I rofled so hard.

Did you talk to CSM about nullsec nerf?

Did you talk to CSM about your glorious NeX plans?

What do you consider better feedback then +300 pages on forums?

We don´t need "representatives" that you ignored on any major change in the past.

CSM will not get you back the trust because of constantly nerfing our gameplay.

Aidan Brooder
Caldari
Dynasphere Ltd.
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:38:00 - [844]
 

Edited by: Aidan Brooder on 27/06/2011 00:03:39


(didn't care to read through thread, just my opinion)

Quote:
The tone and demeanor of my blog on Friday did not correctly portray my emotions towards the community and player base at large. I love and respect EVE and its community on a level that's hard to really do justice in words.


Deeds, not words. Very simple: No interference into game mechanics beyond PLEX - as they are - through any CCP store action. Please... Leave EVE Economy intact! Also: Your blog was insulting!

Quote:

However I let my frustration take charge of me, fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days.


As one of the those who always thought CCP was special and lured players into this game: Guess where that "breach" originated from...
Quote:

I know that sounds ironic considering those are the exact same feelings you have been having towards CCP.



It does not sound ironic, it does sound SAD!

Quote:
For that I am sorry.


And I feel sorry now, too. Because I see a great game dying despite of your:

Quote:
Having cooled off a bit and taken a solemn look at the situation, I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship. There are certain questions you want answered and there isn't room for more error in our communication on those topics or our perception of the root causes.



Yes, there has been a fantastic relationship between CCP and the playerbase. It vanished when you started to listen to (probably) business analysts and marketing strategists.
I know it will be a strain to develop WoD and Dust and continue to develope and suppurt EVE. But do understand that the base of this MMO EVE is NOT your usual 14 years old. You will NOT be able to remodel it to a market for the "quick satisfaction fraction" teens!

Quote:
Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.


The base demand is fairly simple: NO goods except for VANITY goods (that meaning useless clothes for the ultra-rich only!) in that blasted over-priced NEX Store. I do not see the need for plane tickets and hotel costs.

Quote:
The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE. Other issues may be brought up and we urge you to contact the CSM with your comments and concerns so that they may be addressed at this session.



Quote:
However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.



Name your newsletter whatever you want. "Zealess", "Fearless"... Looking at the rest of the MMO industry, I would be surprised if you would NOT try to make such a step. EVE has always been special. It's community has always been special. Perhaps we are a breed on the brink of extcintion. But we can still kick and howl and ... post.. or drop our subscriptions.

Quote:
Due to the volatility of the topic we want to refrain from any further comments on this matter until after meeting with the CSM.


Meaning you want to buy time and limit the audience to impress with graphs, necessity etc ?

Quote:
Thank you for your patience,



You are welcome, but it is running thin...

tika te
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:40:00 - [845]
 

Edited by: tika te on 26/06/2011 23:40:28
they dont care. face it.
pay2win or "how winbutton works.."

Menden Kahoudi
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:40:00 - [846]
 

I think everyone should take a deep breath and accept the fact that Eve will sell more than just vanity items. Eve will align with the business model of DUST and WoD.

The CSM will come back with reassurances (backed with similar presentations like the Battlefield Heroes presentation that appears in this thread a few times) that despite what forum posters are saying the people truly want this. *Shrugs* Who knows? Maybe they're right.

If you can't see this happening, I think you are in denial. Look at the other MMOs on the market. The subscription model is inefficient for what CCP needs.

"However, as a subscription based golden goose, EVE needs to incorporate the virtual goods sales model to allow for further revenue – revenue to fund our other titles, revenue for its developer: you." -Fearless, VOL 1 (and maybe last volume? lol) May 2010

They need money. They need you to give it to them. Greed is good.

Luke S
Zeta Corp.
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:41:00 - [847]
 

Originally by: Rhivre
For those who think gold ammo just means gold ammo

World of tanks gold stuff



I like to add, that some of those tanks are s**t and the gold ammo burns your money faster. also you curse yourself if you used gold ammo and missed your target.

Some of them items aren't game changing too. It was built in during beta and balanced with the rest of the game, also note that there is still player skill involved. Having a gold tank don't mean you are better.

Atreus Venom
Gallente
New Eden Hitmen
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:42:00 - [848]
 

Well and that's all we get for today thanks for nothing... you say "information out of context isn't information at all" and we say "telling the truth but NOT the whole truth is the truth at all" also "giving a half assed answer is really an answer at all" You realize it almost been a week and seriously whether you guys do it or not WE KNOW you were testing the water to go back on your word on MT now that all this fuss has happened you are trying to figure out if you should just lie and say there will never be or tell the truth..... you want us to calm down CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT WHAT EVER UNDERHANDED SHADY MONEY GRABBING DOUBLE DIPPING MT YOU PROCLAIM TO KNOW WE WILL ACCEPT OVER TIME. then tell us there WILL NEVER be game changing items. don't be like there are no plans for gold pants i mean ammo... yeah you could be speaking literally and change the color to red and for the small price of 120 PLEX you can have ammo as powerful as a nuclear BOMB... you think we are stupid and have fun at your shady meeting hope the CSM comes outwith all the memories in tact... i hope that makes since i was typing kinda fast

Van Doren
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:43:00 - [849]
 

Edited by: Van Doren on 26/06/2011 23:43:55
TO THE CSM: It was mentioned before but probably lost.


I want a Roadmap. A real roadmap. I sure don't want to be surprised by patches containing 1/10 of what an expansion is supposed to be (INCARNA) with patch notes the day before it goes up. Dates and/or timeframes even if they are not set in stones and more predictions will be better than nothing.

Given the various comments and info leaked all over the place, it seems that CCP barely knows what they will do next week. ANY programming company with that kind of messy way of working is DEAD or bound to be!


I want to see bug fixes sessions on that roadmap. In fact, I want MORE PATCHES that FIX STUFF. Not 1 patch per year with new stuff.

I don't care that there is a patch day per month as long as it is to fix stuff, not put irrelevant halfbaked new stuff.


FIXING CURRENT CONTENT > NEW CONTENT! As simple as that.


NEX Market - As everybody else: No frigging Pay2Win items... EVER!

This is EVE, I don't care about Dust, I don't care about WoD. CCP investments clearly are poorly managed as they are using their current revenues that seems to NOT BE high enough to support investing in the creation of DUST and WOD. Nobody cares about DUST and WOD except CCP at the moment.

Get Eve running smoothly and get partners for the other games that come with money instead of trying to invest your own limited revenues into it. A lot of company did the same error and failed. You're not special in this case.


Blackjack Turner
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:43:00 - [850]
 

CCP's alright, somebody check my brain. Rolling Eyes

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:44:00 - [851]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu
However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.


That's what we all wanted to hear :)

Akira Zendragon
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:46:00 - [852]
 

Well this has certainly been a good step forward.
I wish it was taken sooner and more decisively, but I'll go with a +1 to CCP Zulu nevertheless. Some good will was badly needed and this blog delivered some.

Tbh, I feel it could have been a bit more explicit on the pay-to-win issue. I see quite a bit of wiggle-room available that could still lead to p2w MTs, but I'll wait for the outcome of the CSM summit.

It's good to see some measure of respect and common sense by CCP showing through to the community by finally calling on CSM, and hopefully this time to actually listen to them and communicate effectively with them and with the community.

This CSM is certainly earning it's pay... oh wai... Razz

To the CSM: Good work so far, hope you guys have a very productive summit this week and manage to fix this mess for good.

QwaarJet
Gallente
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:49:00 - [853]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: CCP Zulu
However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.


That's what we all wanted to hear :)



Not really.

Estelle McDeal
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:50:00 - [854]
 

Edited by: Estelle McDeal on 26/06/2011 23:50:58
Originally by: Akira Zendragon
Well this has certainly been a good step forward.
I wish it was taken sooner and more decisively, but I'll go with a +1 to CCP Zulu nevertheless. Some good will was badly needed and this blog delivered some.

Tbh, I feel it could have been a bit more explicit on the pay-to-win issue. I see quite a bit of wiggle-room available that could still lead to p2w MTs, but I'll wait for the outcome of the CSM summit.

It's good to see some measure of respect and common sense by CCP showing through to the community by finally calling on CSM, and hopefully this time to actually listen to them and communicate effectively with them and with the community.

This CSM is certainly earning it's pay... oh wai... Razz



To the CSM: Good work so far, hope you guys have a very productive summit this week and manage to fix this mess for good.



ROFL you also still believe in santa?

Go on hoping while they are planning on optimizing their revenue coz this is what it is all about.

They never gave a **** on CSM and this will not change.

Metrics > CSM

CSM = unimportant wannabes that can be used if s.h.it hits the fan but other then that they are merely puppets to CCP

Dibble Dabble
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:51:00 - [855]
 

Originally by: Menden Kahoudi
I think everyone should take a deep breath and accept the fact that Eve will sell more than just vanity items. Eve will align with the business model of DUST and WoD.

The CSM will come back with reassurances (backed with similar presentations like the Battlefield Heroes presentation that appears in this thread a few times) that despite what forum posters are saying the people truly want this. *Shrugs* Who knows? Maybe they're right.

If you can't see this happening, I think you are in denial. Look at the other MMOs on the market. The subscription model is inefficient for what CCP needs.

"However, as a subscription based golden goose, EVE needs to incorporate the virtual goods sales model to allow for further revenue – revenue to fund our other titles, revenue for its developer: you." -Fearless, VOL 1 (and maybe last volume? lol) May 2010

They need money. They need you to give it to them. Greed is good.


Well said.

Lots olf folks in denial. Lots are running scared. Lots fear the unknown.

MT could be really good for Eve, people need to look past their own fear and embrace it.

Atreus Venom
Gallente
New Eden Hitmen
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:53:00 - [856]
 

Originally by: tika te
Edited by: tika te on 26/06/2011 23:40:28
they dont care. face it.
pay2win or "how winbutton works.."


WTF??? is this tied to CCP at all? cuz if this is the mindset they have it doesnt matter what we say or do

Aidan Brooder
Caldari
Dynasphere Ltd.
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:53:00 - [857]
 

Oh, but of course you are free to invite me to Iceland for a chat that can be done via telephone conference... Or just here.

I have some overdue vacation days left and I am a business and technical analyst. (drunk version of both, right now, but not off the target.) ;)

Why not invite all of us?

Karsa Egivand
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:01:00 - [858]
 

I will add my voice to the others who have said:

Wait and see.

If they meet with the CSM to "assist ... in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy" then I will wait a week for that. If they make public promises to stick with solely vanity items - not in a dev blog - but to CSM after such a high-profile meeting, then they will have very little leverage to ever break that promise. Lets see if they do.

Until then, I am off to earn some ISK and do some flying.

Manos Heimenbarger
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:03:00 - [859]
 

Edited by: Manos Heimenbarger on 27/06/2011 00:08:35
Originally by: Roosterton
This is finally good to hear. Anyone who's nitpicking on the "golden ammo" wording is now just clamoring for attention and unwilling to drop the "ccp sucks" bandwagon.


This is not true. His statement deliberately leaves the possibility open. Notice how he said there were no *plans* for such a thing.

Now look at what CCP said one year ago.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1341909&page=1#7

" We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE."

One year later, we have a microtransaction store.

I don't see how anybody can read this devblog and view the MT issue settled by any means.

GRIEV3R
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:03:00 - [860]
 

This is a step in the right direction, but still not enough.

As so many others have already said:
The only way CCP is going to fix this perceived betrayal is to unequivocally state that there will never be non-vanity microtransactions in Eve Online. Anything less than an absolute statement such as that is insufficient; it means that the idea is still on the table. The idea *cannot* even be on the table. It is completely unacceptable. CCP as a company needs to make a statement to its customers promising absolute commitment to the integrity and quality of its product.
Your very carefully worded statement about "gold ammo" falls short. I want a video statement from Hilmar.
Please, go the distance to show us you're serious. None of us wants to see the end of Eve; it's the greatest game ever made. You can still fix it, but these half measures and inept attempts at damage control are making it worse not better.

Atreus Venom
Gallente
New Eden Hitmen
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:05:00 - [861]
 

Originally by: tika te
Edited by: tika te on 26/06/2011 23:40:28
they dont care. face it.
pay2win or "how winbutton works.."


no seriously this link is it tied to CCP AT ALL if so how do you know?

Aidan Brooder
Caldari
Dynasphere Ltd.
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:05:00 - [862]
 

Edited by: Aidan Brooder on 27/06/2011 00:03:39


(didn't care to read through thread, just my opinion)

Quote:
The tone and demeanor of my blog on Friday did not correctly portray my emotions towards the community and player base at large. I love and respect EVE and its community on a level that's hard to really do justice in words.


Deeds, not words. Very simple: No interference into game mechanics beyond PLEX - as they are - through any CCP store action. Please... Leave EVE Economy intact! Also: Your blog was insulting!

Quote:

However I let my frustration take charge of me, fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days.


As one of the those who always thought CCP was special and lured players into this game: Guess where that "breach" originated from...
Quote:

I know that sounds ironic considering those are the exact same feelings you have been having towards CCP.



It does not sound ironic, it does sound SAD!

Quote:
For that I am sorry.


And I feel sorry now, too. Because I see a great game dying despite of your:

Quote:
Having cooled off a bit and taken a solemn look at the situation, I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship. There are certain questions you want answered and there isn't room for more error in our communication on those topics or our perception of the root causes.



Yes, there has been a fantastic relationship between CCP and the playerbase. It vanished when you started to listen to (probably) business analysts and marketing strategists.
I know it will be a strain to develop WoD and Dust and continue to develope and suppurt EVE. But do understand that the base of this MMO EVE is NOT your usual 14 years old. You will NOT be able to remodel it to a market for the "quick satisfaction fraction" teens!

Quote:
Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.


The base demand is fairly simple: NO goods except for VANITY goods (that meaning useless clothes for the ultra-rich only!) in that blasted over-priced NEX Store. I do not see the need for plane tickets and hotel costs.

Quote:
The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE. Other issues may be brought up and we urge you to contact the CSM with your comments and concerns so that they may be addressed at this session.



Quote:
However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.



Name your newsletter whatever you want. "Zealess", "Fearless"... Looking at the rest of the MMO industry, I would be surprised if you would NOT try to make such a step. EVE has always been special. It's community has always been special. Perhaps we are a breed on the brink of extcintion. But we can still kick and howl and ... post.. or drop our subscriptions.

Quote:
Due to the volatility of the topic we want to refrain from any further comments on this matter until after meeting with the CSM.


Meaning you want to buy time and limit the audience to impress with graphs, necessity etc ?

Quote:
Thank you for your patience,



You are welcome, but it is running thin...

Estelle McDeal
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:05:00 - [863]
 

Originally by: Karsa Egivand
I will add my voice to the others who have said:

Wait and see.

If they meet with the CSM to "assist ... in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy" then I will wait a week for that. If they make public promises to stick with solely vanity items - not in a dev blog - but to CSM after such a high-profile meeting, then they will have very little leverage to ever break that promise. Lets see if they do.

Until then, I am off to earn some ISK and do some flying.


High-profile meeting?

Wake up dude. We are talking about the CSM that has been ignored on any major changes in the past.

We are not talking about an investors meeting.

No profile meeting would be the suitable term.

Fennisair
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:05:00 - [864]
 

A much better blog than the last and a step in the right direction towards mollifying your customers. I'll await the post-CSM-meeting outcomes with interest.

Al 007
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:07:00 - [865]
 

Originally by: Angeliq

Originally by: Julian Kirov

Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.

http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win




This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!

This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.




Well I think your comparing Apples and Oranges here. Eve business model is subscription based NOT free-to-play. Don't get this wrong I'm against pay-to-win items but this presentation has no relevance for Eve.
See it that way -> Battlefield 2 is a "need to buy" game and you need to unlock the additional weapons per class by gaming success. Cheating that results in a ban.
CCP's problem is that they are not World of Warcraft with their 11M+ playerbase; there are approx 300k+ (??) players paying for Eve and most of them -like me- have multiple accounts. Which gives a single users a much bigger lever to pull on. Other thing is that Eve players a bit of a tight bonded bunch, which makes much harder for CCP to just get away with stuff like that. IF they continue with that course a some players will leave BUT there will be no bigger revenue for CCP. They have been so long on the market to have bigger success BUT they haven't. They are have created niche game and it will stay that way. Reason for that is that Eve is a rather complex game (Remember: Eve Learning Curve) and the time based skilling which is very unique within the MMORPG World.

And to CCP: say/do we watch

Karsa Egivand
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:14:00 - [866]
 

Originally by: Estelle McDeal
Originally by: Karsa Egivand
I will add my voice to the others who have said:

Wait and see.

If they meet with the CSM to "assist ... in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy" then I will wait a week for that. If they make public promises to stick with solely vanity items - not in a dev blog - but to CSM after such a high-profile meeting, then they will have very little leverage to ever break that promise. Lets see if they do.

Until then, I am off to earn some ISK and do some flying.


High-profile meeting?

Wake up dude. We are talking about the CSM that has been ignored on any major changes in the past.

We are not talking about an investors meeting.

No profile meeting would be the suitable term.


Its not high-profile because of who attends, but how it got to the meeting and what expectations are about the topic to be settled.

It would be the same high-profile thing if they said they would have a meeting in 3 days with their developers and board members and announce it afterwards.

If you dont think the meeting will be high-profile, just re-read the thread.

Menden Kahoudi
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:16:00 - [867]
 

All emotions aside and critically put:

Everyone posting in this thread is less than 2% of the player base. Eve will move forward with or without you. This PRODUCTION will move forward. The CROWD will be CONTROLLED. See what I did there?

Metrics > Forum opinions.

Aidan Brooder
Caldari
Dynasphere Ltd.
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:21:00 - [868]
 

Edited by: Aidan Brooder on 27/06/2011 00:22:19
True enough and I agree.

Hard to tackle company strategy if on shiny papers investors have been convinced this is the way to go.

Still, if you do not at least voice your concerns - or in this case rage - you will not feel better facing the inevitable.

Actually CCP is selling what made them DIFFERENT from the rest. Bad move. They should have focused on it.

QT McWhiskers
EdgeGamers
Situation: Normal
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:22:00 - [869]
 

CCP, my one question to you is very simple.

Will this CSM meeting be broadcast on eve-tv?

Zephy Russ
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:24:00 - [870]
 

We've already scored a win, asking for more would be rather churlish. I'm personally putting down my pitchfork for the time being, and unlike many of you I trust that I'll not have to pick it back up again.


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