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Scalphunter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:20:00 - [781]
 

just typical politician spin.

just get all MT out of game, stop bein money grabbin muppets.

you think a little meetin will make us all forget?!

power to the people

CEOcat
Gallente
CAT Corp
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:20:00 - [782]
 

"mutual agreement"

So you just promised not to move forward with any MT additions that the CSM does not agree to right? Cause that is very much what it sounds like. I will watch and hope we don't get let down again....

Glaso Fruixette
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:20:00 - [783]
 

Edited by: Glaso Fruixette on 26/06/2011 22:27:08
Originally by: Deliceous
All I see is a bunch of whiners, which won't allow CCP eve brain storm ideas

If you are going to have a game that continues to be grow and does not die due to attrition then you have to take chances, Aurum is not a big change since we have had plex since 2007,



Official statement: "We will never shoot our players in the back"
Internal communication (brainstorming as they say): "What if we try to stab'em with a knife instead?"

Skyreth
Revelation of Wrath
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:22:00 - [784]
 

CCP is organising to meet the CSM to figure out a way to make things up to us, to reassure us and all the rest...yet so many of you won't even cut them a break in return?...real mature guys, you've just given CCP the moral high-ground there.

I personally think CCP has done a very respectable thing with this. Instead of going the way SOE did with SWG, they are trying to make sure that they have the player communities support and trying to make sure they do the right thing by us. I think we'd all have to at least respect them for going that far.

It's up to each player how they view CCP after this recent event. But if they're actually putting in work to fix things, you guys should be doing the same...nothing can be done if we're failing to help in a constructive manner.


Ghurthe
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:23:00 - [785]
 

I'm still not turning on my subscriptions again till i hear CCP promise to never confer in gamebenefits for Aurum.

That's $75/month you're losing CCP =D Enjoy.

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:23:00 - [786]
 

So another spin, nothing given. Just stallments and avoidance. No actions at all.

Even the sorry part wasnt sorry. it was only sorry for not writing it in a better spin the first time.

Do you think we are all dumbass kids or mental ******s?

buck herrick
101st Space Marine Force
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:24:00 - [787]
 

thank you for your considered response.

this has not been and will not be easy for any concerned - this we understand. i thank both ccp and the CSM (yes even the mittani) for the commitment to the process and i hope that it turns out favourably.

i also sincerly hope that this process has some valuable take-aways for both sides.

whilst i will not be resubbing 3 of my accounts, as the last expires at the end of this year, you have a chance to save one at least.

good luck and thanks again.

Dyner
Minmatar
Midgard Protectorate
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:24:00 - [788]
 

We are waiting...we are watching.

Grojar Flesp
Gallente
SQS Group
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:25:00 - [789]
 

Hi CCP Zulu,

I don't think your reply was the problem, not understanding your customers (or at least the customers of Eve) is.

Good to get in touch with CSM, but most of the issues should have been thought up beforehand, in stead of watching the ..... hit the fan afterwards. Embarassed On my account there should be 2 things on the agenda:
1. Either it's an subscription based game or not. Paying twice for something is not good, however which way you look at it.
2. You made a promise, or better, CCP made a promise. NO real life currency in the game, heck why would we be hunting farmers anyways. Are you going to keep your promise, or not. If not, do you really think your loyal subscribers will be loyal enough? And, do you think any new subscribers will really go for this?

Again, I think you could / should have thought of this beforehand.

One more thing:

Can I please (pretty please if must be) have a checkbox to turn walking in stations off? Thanx in advance Very Happy

Grojar Flesp

Estelle McDeal
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:26:00 - [790]
 

Originally by: Angeliq

Originally by: Julian Kirov

Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.

http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win




This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!

This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.




Really worth to watch this.

It is EXACTLY what Zulu told us. They are offering items via NeX that players demand.

One difference left: We already pay for EvE and the greedy tards don´t get enough and this is what will **** off people.

NekoKitten
Gallente
Blake Industries
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:26:00 - [791]
 

I dont really care about vanity or non vanity items, I'm completely okay if somebody wants to buy a 1000 dollar ship (but still has to learn the skills for) or Meta 20 Gold Ammo for 250 dollar (I wouldnt buy it anyhow) but I wouldnt like it if anybody could buy skillpoints or standing, cos thats something we worked hard for over the year(s).

My 2 cents to this ..

Elrica bloodbane
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:27:00 - [792]
 

The only thing that will sort this out. NO MT EVER PERIOD.
If you have new content for the game introduce it,Very HappyVery Happy
because its all ready been paid for.Evil or Very Mad

ViperLok
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:29:00 - [793]
 

More BS from CCP.
take note: As you fall another will rise.

Ill be over at perpetuum.

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:30:00 - [794]
 

Edited by: RougeOperator on 26/06/2011 22:31:14
Originally by: Angeliq

Originally by: Julian Kirov

Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.

http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win




This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!

This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.




Whats with all the CCP alts posting this. We already explained the fundamental differences and why its not a comparable example a million times over.

Or are these the guys CCP hired for their expert opinions?

They want us to pay twice or 5 times over for what we already pay for. Thats just crap.

Aussie ALF
One Gear Inc
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:31:00 - [795]
 

+1

Originally by: Baillif


QFT. The biggest concern I have is CCP itself. There seems to be a cancer eating it from within. Between

1. The leaked emails and internal communications showing their horrible internal messaging

2. The inability of the company to do something as simple as upgrade the forum in reasonable timeframe

3. The obvious gaping rift that has formed between CCP and reality (as well as their customer base).

4. The recent drop in quality and quantity of expansion.

5. The horrible business decisions made with WoD and Dust 514 that I don't think anyone expects to see succeed.

6. The dissatisfaction of CCP's own employees.

7. The broken promises.

8. The laughable launch of Incarna as a feature that is an obvious launching pad to MT, and serves little to no other in game purpose.

9. The disregard and utter contempt for the Eve player base expressed by their own CEO.

10. The laughably stupid decisions being made (such as martyring players) which illustrate just how dysfunctional the company has become.


This has all the makings of a gigantic failscade. For a company called Crowd Control Productions you guys sure aren't doing a very good job.

Wake up call. Your game isn't that great. What makes it great is the player base and the community, and you've damaged it and ****ed it off.


Lysander Kaldenn
Dead Reckoning.
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:32:00 - [796]
 

CCP needs to understand that brainstorming on these topics is an effort in futility. If you bring in non-vanity MT your game is dead. Plain and simple.

Why even waste time "brainstorming"? If you want an exercise in applied fantasy why not imagine what each CCP employee would do with his own unicorn?

Listen to the players who gave you the money in the first place or those same players are going to take that money somewhere else. It's not complicated.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:32:00 - [797]
 

Originally by: Angeliq

Originally by: Julian Kirov

Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.

http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win




This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!

This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.




Its a very interesting presentation, although it has to be said that BFH is a very different style of game, and I would suggest appeals to a different demographic of player. Its worth noting that BFH starts from a basis of F2P, whereas EVE is subscription based. Will MT work for DUST? Almost certainly. Will it 'harm' some of the core elements of EVE. Again almost certainly.

CCP should consider that. They should also listen to us canaries.

C.

Winnie Pooh
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:34:00 - [798]
 

I don't mind if some people insist on dressing up their chess buttons. It is not my loss if some people like to play with pretty dolls. It just won't be chess anymore if players are allowed to convert their pawns to queens with money.

Please CCP, don't pimp my ride. It has been fun, but it wouldn't be the first MMO I've loved, hated and quit.

Ekon Bor
Amarr
Van Diemen's Demise
Merciless.
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:35:00 - [799]
 

Out of curiousity, how many virtual monocles does it take to cover an return airfare to Iceland? Just wondering if the 52 sales don't look as sexy on the P&L statement now as they did on Friday Very Happy

BugraT WarheaD
Astromechanica Federatis
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:35:00 - [800]
 

Edited by: BugraT WarheaD on 26/06/2011 22:36:12
Hi Zulu (and all CCP people) !

I must admit that you blog is touching, an I, as an old eve player, I must admit too that I really want to believe what you say ... because i can't trust that you were doing things against the player base ... so you convince me to wait quietly for now Smile

I really wish this was an episode and that we are going to move forward now, 'cause Jesus I love Eve dude Wink

With that blog, and the coming meeting, you've regain all my trust.

Hope we'll fly side by side for a relly long long time !


- I want to believe poster on my wall Wink -

Dibble Dabble
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:35:00 - [801]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
This blog is a promising but much-delayed first step. The events of the past few days have left me feeling skeptical of the entire situation, since the May Summit itself went peachy, yet then these issues with the NeX prices cropped up, undiscussed, out of nowhere - not to mention the Hilmar mail, Greed is Good, et cetera.

Mark me down on the 'actions not words' end of the scale - In Reykjavik, I'm going to want to see exactly how the NeX prices were decided upon, how they were drafted, and which suits where were behind this nonsense - and who chose to not mention this to the CSM. Perhaps most important is understanding the degree of financial motivation behind this, and why it came from CCP like a bolt from the blue, and thus how likely similar bolts from the blue might be in the future.

I don't have much more to say beyond what I've already said on Eve Radio and in my CEO Update, which is crossposted on Kugu and Failheap.

We'll see how Reykjavik goes.


Its not a surprise your against MT. It will hurt your powerbase and bot infested rented space.

You are only interested in protecting your own interests and have been for years. You spread fear and panic and where elected based on your block voting lemmings.

The CSM is the biggest vanity item of the lot. How many plex does it take to get elected to the CSM? maybe with MT you can buy a seat on the CSM Twisted Evil

MezriDax
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:37:00 - [802]
 

Edited by: MezriDax on 26/06/2011 22:38:32
"we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days. " Try a couple of years of CCP not listening to the people who play the game (also known as your customer base, you know, the ones that pay your salary).

"I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship." Up to now there has been very little here but a one sided relationship. We scream about what we want and you turn a deaf ear to us. You haven't listened to your customers and still don't. There has not been any trust among the players that I know of other than our trust that CCP loves to nerf anything good and continue to "level the playing field" by destroying everything we work to achieve.

" help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy." It's simply amazing how deaf and out of touch people at CCP have become. It's not about "virtual goods", 95% of us wouldn't pay for that if a new pair of jeans was 1 cent. It's about everything that we keep screaming about and you NOT LISTENING. CCP is going off on it's merry way destroying the game while the customers get aggravated. PLEASE, listen to what we want for once and more so, DO IT.

"Other issues may be brought up and we urge you to contact the CSM with your comments and concerns so that they may be addressed at this session." Gee whiz, are you really going to listen or do something THIS TIME? What happened to the past few years of complaints and concerns. Were your "experts" not telling you your entire customer base wanted something different?

"This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all." You could start by reading your own forums, you'll find many things we (the ones who pay for all this) want to see in the game.

Seriously Mr. Fallout, after a few years of you NOT listening and spitefully telling us your going to do things despite a majority of the community disagreeing with you, there is no trust anymore. Many people are gone and many of us are telling our friends who are interested that the lure of Eve has been nerf'd and the game is being destroyed.

I'm posting for my corporation right now because they appointed me as their voice. We sincerely want to continue playing Eve. People like me have never played any other game and when I leave this game I won't play another game. Last week my corporation (all friends in RL now) discussed what other games there are to play. I realized that we are soon at the end of our time in Eve and I'm sad. I enjoy playing with my friends and don't want to leave. We are looking elsewhere as I'm sure many of your clients are now doing. Wake up and smell the coffee, you're killing the game, making it a pain for the people who play and we're tired of it. Vote to save Eve by DOING what the players want, not giving us nice political talk and posturing.

Captain Macanudo
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:39:00 - [803]
 

Hello.

Thank you.

My petition about this already sent.
I'm waiting.

No critics. But no thrust until the answer or
to date of the meeting with the official response.

As I said before, there are other options and life
continues. And I will save five accounts/year.

CapMac

Athellant Nardieu
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:39:00 - [804]
 

I might not be a pro at business, but surely you should be having meetings with CSM in the first place and not waiting until something like this happens, especially as the success of CCP relies upon making the community happy.

Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:39:00 - [805]
 

"However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all."

Now, here is a quote from the newsletter. Note that this quote is from page 9 after the comments by the 2 Devs. The title for the article is ---EVE:
Delivering the goods:
virtual sales in Incarna

Read the page..... It is not their to foster debate. It is a statement of fact for what CCP has planned.

"CCP is in the process of adopting a virtual sales
model for its game products. While this model has
always been intended for World of Darkness and
DUST 514, you may be wondering how this will
work in EVE Online. Specifically, how will this new
strategy unfold in Incarna?"

"Not all virtual purchases will
focus on customization: some will
simply be new items, ammunition,
ships, etc. that can be purchased
outright."

"One other service we’re looking
at is selling faction standings."

"So we might sell
tiny things or batches of consumable
goods for just a few “micro-
PLEX,” but we would have the option
to sell premium content and
services at a much higher price
point."

"Thus, we will not and cannot focus
on virtual sales only within the Incarna
environment, nor build that
environment around such sales;
rather, we will effect a universal
strategy of micro-sales throughout
the EVE experience."

Sure sounds like they have plans for it to me!

Zulu's latest blog is BS.

Makko Gray
Pheno-Tech Industries
Crimson Wings.
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:40:00 - [806]
 

Thank you.

I know there are a lot of different viewpoints in regards to some of the issues raised from the last expansion and I know how difficult it is to try and please everyone, but this latest dev blog is at least a sign those conversations will take place.

I feel so much in the last expansion when by without any player or CSM input, even though perhaps from a code point of view it was so little, but a few little tweaks between SISI and TQ can make all the difference. It is good to know that there are going to be conversations that at least acknowledge that. I do not condone some of the lengths players went to to show their disapproval, though I do recognise the importance of peaceful protest, and I also recognise that this is not because of hate but because of the love people have for this game and the passion which the bring to it.

Again, I sincerely thank you for at least sitting down at the table to discuss the issues which so many feel are very important to the future of the game.

Makko

amarri victari
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:40:00 - [807]
 

Originally by: The Mittani
This blog is a promising but much-delayed first step. The events of the past few days have left me feeling skeptical of the entire situation, since the May Summit itself went peachy, yet then these issues with the NeX prices cropped up, undiscussed, out of nowhere - not to mention the Hilmar mail, Greed is Good, et cetera.

Mark me down on the 'actions not words' end of the scale - In Reykjavik, I'm going to want to see exactly how the NeX prices were decided upon, how they were drafted, and which suits where were behind this nonsense - and who chose to not mention this to the CSM. Perhaps most important is understanding the degree of financial motivation behind this, and why it came from CCP like a bolt from the blue, and thus how likely similar bolts from the blue might be in the future.

I don't have much more to say beyond what I've already said on Eve Radio and in my CEO Update, which is crossposted on Kugu and Failheap.

We'll see how Reykjavik goes.


mittans

may i also please ask that you address the issues of recent bans whilst there, i think there needs to be some deliberation on this if nothing else.

Aroh X
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:41:00 - [808]
 

Thanks for finally starting to give some decent feedback.

I think what we are seeing here is a culmination of a lot of little things that have been happening lately. This expansion brings it all to a head and gives a lot of people who have been playing EVE for a long time a prime opportunity to really stop and think about whether they want to keep playing EVE going forward. This major change in direction for EVE (higher system requirements, Incarna, micro transactions), is an obvious 'break point' for those addicted to EVE, it brings them back to reality and makes them really question whether this game should continue to be an important part of their future.

That's my take on what needs to be addressed... not quite sure how you do that though to be honest and it may be that the damage is already done... but it's not about any one little thing, a committment to fixing up existing game play issues is probably a good area to shift some focus to if possible... just to remind everyone that all CCP dev's are not focused on making prettier monocles to sell in the AUR shop.

Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:44:00 - [809]
 

This is finally good to hear. Anyone who's nitpicking on the "golden ammo" wording is now just clamoring for attention and unwilling to drop the "ccp sucks" bandwagon.

Dibble Dabble
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:44:00 - [810]
 

Originally by: amarri victari
Originally by: The Mittani
This blog is a promising but much-delayed first step. The events of the past few days have left me feeling skeptical of the entire situation, since the May Summit itself went peachy, yet then these issues with the NeX prices cropped up, undiscussed, out of nowhere - not to mention the Hilmar mail, Greed is Good, et cetera.

Mark me down on the 'actions not words' end of the scale - In Reykjavik, I'm going to want to see exactly how the NeX prices were decided upon, how they were drafted, and which suits where were behind this nonsense - and who chose to not mention this to the CSM. Perhaps most important is understanding the degree of financial motivation behind this, and why it came from CCP like a bolt from the blue, and thus how likely similar bolts from the blue might be in the future.

I don't have much more to say beyond what I've already said on Eve Radio and in my CEO Update, which is crossposted on Kugu and Failheap.

We'll see how Reykjavik goes.


mittans

may i also please ask that you address the issues of recent bans whilst there, i think there needs to be some deliberation on this if nothing else.


BANS are bans and well out of the scope of the CSM. No special treatment for CSM members, friends of CSM members or their lemmings.



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