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Dibble Dabble
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:11:00 - [571]

Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: RougeOperator
They way he wrote no gold ammo does little in the way of taking MTs off the table for real goods.

He is being a sneaky using literal language to parse his way out of this.

Later on when they sell ammo, he can say, But its not gold ammo right guys? TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Or maybe its a remap, or more slots to store corp fits, or training boosters.

No guys Ranger 1 says it explains everything and you're being foolish and manipulated. Why can't you see the wisdom in his words?

Seriously, dev blog couldn't have been more clear. He wasn't in any way beating around the bush. Why are u so easily manipulated?

Glad you have gone, a little less lag to worry about and i guess your not up adapting to change. Like so many other lemmings Eve will be a better place without you.

I want to see MT in all its gory glory.

The Mittani
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:11:00 - [572]

This blog is a promising but much-delayed first step. The events of the past few days have left me feeling skeptical of the entire situation, since the May Summit itself went peachy, yet then these issues with the NeX prices cropped up, undiscussed, out of nowhere - not to mention the Hilmar mail, Greed is Good, et cetera.

Mark me down on the 'actions not words' end of the scale - In Reykjavik, I'm going to want to see exactly how the NeX prices were decided upon, how they were drafted, and which suits where were behind this nonsense - and who chose to not mention this to the CSM. Perhaps most important is understanding the degree of financial motivation behind this, and why it came from CCP like a bolt from the blue, and thus how likely similar bolts from the blue might be in the future.

I don't have much more to say beyond what I've already said on Eve Radio and in my CEO Update, which is crossposted on Kugu and Failheap.

We'll see how Reykjavik goes.

Alexandra Alt
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:12:00 - [573]

Nice, can't edit my post, anyway, as I was about to say, I forgot to add something, the thing that ****es me the most, is the fact that I'm treated as someone who doesn't know what he wants, granted sometimes one does tend to have opinions and wishes that are selfish and don't fit a community as a whole, but, you don't say that, ever, even in an internal newsletter (which was said to be out of context, you could release the whole newsletters to make it in context, that is, if it won't make the issue worse), and that hurt me, so much that it will be quite hard for you (CCP) to make me change my mind.

Best regards.

the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:12:00 - [574]

Please CSM, tell them we would also like CQ to be optional as promised. Wink

The Inevitable Corp
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:12:00 - [575]

Originally by: Sha Dar
NOW you want to listen to the CSM...


Originally by: Ghoest
Ill watch what you do not what you say.

These, pretty much.

Katra Novac
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:12:00 - [576]

Edited by: Katra Novac on 26/06/2011 20:21:02

Deleted as ended up with wrong quote followed by disconnect from the forum.

Posted - 2011.06.26 20:13:00 - [577]

Originally by: Morphisat
Guys guys, the CSM thing is just a PR stunt. A press release will go to all gaming media saying that the discussions were fruitful.

CCP is commited to Incarna and the cash shop. This doesn't mean they'll start selling non-vanity items tomorrow, but they might at some point in the future.

Guys guys, the CSM thing is not a PR stunt. A press release will go to all gaming media saying that the discussions were fruitful.

CCP is not committed to Incarna and the cash shop. This means they won't start selling non-vanity items tomorrow, and never will at any point in the future.

see how easy that was?

Posted - 2011.06.26 20:14:00 - [578]

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Dalketh
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
We're reading you, be sure we're going to carry your words to CCP.

My stance on the issue in more words is here. Be SURE to contact your CSM members and let them know, we WILL read your mail.

Good read, however you admit that you see the 'face to face' meeting with them possibly a waste of a week or more time...

("Either way, we've been summoned to Iceland on very short notice. Frankly I don't see the point, we could convey mostly the same thing with the skype conversations we've been having non-stop")

Why not bring that up to CCP and your fellow CSM members and save us all a big delay (even if that is CCP's goal)?

Done and done. There's advantages to having face to face meetings, depending on who has to participate, and it's frankly a looot faster and denser than typing words and waiting for people to answer. So it's more efficient.

It all depends on how the conversation goes, but we'll see.

Typing? I was talking about voice Skype? Yes I can see there could be some advantage to face to face, but does that outweigh this dragging on for weeks more when many people already see it as a CCP delay tactic?

Lirael Dyrim
In Bacon We Trust
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:14:00 - [579]

Originally by: Shemmy
Originally by: Sha Dar
NOW you want to listen to the CSM...


Originally by: Ghoest
Ill watch what you do not what you say.

These, pretty much.


Posted - 2011.06.26 20:14:00 - [580]

Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: MC187

so which is it?

Gentlemen, we already knew that Soundwave was requested by CCP to write his article from a Gordon Gekko point of view.

We already knew that the points list in the Fearless edition were put in purposefully to provoke discussion and reinforce where the implementation of MT could go wrong if greed overtook reason.

We already knew that the copy that was originally leaked had been edited, and taken completely out of context.

You simply chose not to hear it.

And yet you keep referring to it as "proof" that they have a plan in place to do so, despite a direct refutation.

You, the EVE Online community, have been massively trolled.

And you couldn't have made it easier.

you caught me before i finished editing.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:15:00 - [581]

Originally by: Ranger 1

Nope, just smarter and more mature than you.

Don't you have a rage quit to attend to...

While you're out white knighting on your horse, consider at one time MTs were never on the table.

Paramount Commerce
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:15:00 - [582]

A clear seperation and clarification of how Dust/ EVE link will work /counteract pay to win players.

Seperate the WOD game more clearly from this discussion by acknowleding it and placing it clearly seperate but still talked about in CCP publications.

The Inevitable Corp
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:15:00 - [583]

Originally by: Ubumble
If you like the game, you'll be hoping that CCP reacts well from this point.

Yes, and if you've been here a while, you'll be expecting ... not a lot, to be honest.

Ban Doga
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:15:00 - [584]

Originally by: Canuk EroSennin
Good lord almighty people! Listen to yourselves....CCP Zulu has heard your whining and *****ing and is going to call a meeting of the CSM (your representitives in eve voted in by you) and the CCP staff to discuss the future of eve, what you are all *****ing NON STOP about, and how to address the current problems facing eve to everyones benefit.

Hilmar himself explained that CCP will watch out to our actions and not care so much about what we say at this time, because they already knew what we would say.
And he said they will stay the course and change the world. Again!

Are you calling him a liar now?
I think that's not fair - This man obviously cares about us a great deal!

Posted - 2011.06.26 20:15:00 - [585]

By the way, I consider the Scorpion battleship you guys were talking about selling to be "gold ammo."

Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:15:00 - [586]

Trust? You can't be serious.

I lost trust in CCP's ability to deliver anything with some measure of quality (in both execution and design) with the Dominion patch.

Over the past three months, CCP has either ****ed up in executing initiatives or actively taken steps to reduce the playability and enjoyment of the game in my experience.

Forget the NEX / AUR nonsense (though, CCP is managing things terribly and Hilmar is a complete ass). That's just background noise for me. What about all of the buggy crap that you guys have introduced recently? What about Null-sec changes w/barely an ounce of warning? And what about the 50 server-side fittings?

tl;dr - Trust is gone due to consistently poor service and product delivery over the past 18 months.

Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:15:00 - [587]

Thanks for the blog, it might calm the lynch mob down a bit.


1) It was still put in words that leave some room to speculate. No gold ammo could mean no items of power whatsoever or it could mean literally that, no ammo but something else that will break the sandbox. How about gold ships? Weapons? Blueprints? Could it mean no items but generic improved performance like extra fitting slots? These might work on other games but when you have a competetive game with consequences magicking stuff from outside just breaks the foundation of the sandbox. BTW you might want to refer to this thread if you need to see the opinion of the community (the vote count is from page 25 or so but the spread of votes follow the general notion of it).

2) Furthermore I'm concerned about the developement of EvE. From the material made available it sounded like EvE gets just minor developement resources and most of our subscription money gets redirected to Dust and WoD. This wouldn't be a problem if the last three expansions would have added more to the space part of the game, or at least had fixed some of the old problems. Instead we got a clickfest in preparation of Dust, Incursions (which are actually pretty neat but limited) with some tweaking of the planetary clickfest and now after several years of waiting a small room with a dress-up shop. Of course we understand that these are works in progress for something greater but one cannot think that you are ignoring the main gameplay that drew the players to this game in the first place.

I understand you cannot answer these before consulting the CSM (which might be the best solution) but they are up here for reading. Hopefully it's of some use for evaluating the current problem. (Note that I didn't touch the MT store pricing or mandatory CQ, these are more important IMO.)

Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:16:00 - [588]

Edited by: Desert Ice78 on 26/06/2011 20:20:38
To the CSM:

First off, thank you guys for those replies in this thread which do a hell of a lot more then Zulu's blog.

Here is the issue that I would like you to comment on:

At your last meeting with CCP, Zymurgist tried to sneak a Scorpion into the Nex shop, but as I understand you guys told him in no uncertain terms that that was unacceptable.

He then took you all out to dinner, got you all drunk, and then over the course of several hours whittled away at you until he seemed to have an agreement to release the Cash-for-Scorpion for one week only (Oh really???.)

And so along he arrives with his Nex shop, complete with the Cash-for-Scorpion, and all with the blessing of the CSM.

THIS is how I see CCP's strategy for your meeting next week working.

Question is: Would it be possible for you all too please abstain from alcohol and/ or drugs and/or hookers for the duration of your stay in Iceland?

Update: Mittens, I don't give a flying **** about the cost of the Nex items, it's dross, worthless, meaningless. I only care about WHAT items are in the Nex store (anyone got a drop of a BPC for a Faction pos lately??)

Amber Villaneous
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:16:00 - [589]

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Done and done. There's advantages to having face to face meetings, depending on who has to participate, and it's frankly a looot faster and denser than typing words and waiting for people to answer. So it's more efficient.

It all depends on how the conversation goes, but we'll see.

What would be extremely efficient is a Devblog unequivocally stating that there will never be non-vanity items for sale.

Adellle Nadair
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:17:00 - [590]

Thank you CCP for continuing to provide open communication about Eve.

Contrary to most of the flamer responses, I am happy to hear about an internal newsletter that's purpose is to inspire debate and critical thought. This further highlights your commitment to being an intelligent, leading gaming company.

Keep up the great work. I can't wait to see how you will expand and enrich the Eve Universe next.

Sax Delphinus
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:17:00 - [591]

This is good enough that I'll stop shooting up Jita.
I have to be picky though and agree that until I get a clear "There will never be non-vanity items, period", I won't be re-subbing.
Hopefully this CSM meeting will bring the clarity we want.

Posted - 2011.06.26 20:17:00 - [592]

I have read Zulu blog but still have my alts account unsubscribed and not planning on getting another plex to renew this one tell I here CCP say you will not do any game changing items like ships or skill points, and so on. Once I hear this I will be more than happy to reactivate my accounts. I hope you listen to the community on this issues.

Capsuleer Newton
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:17:00 - [593]

CSM going to Iceland? Wouldn't that be putting pressure on them? I mean, argue much and you're swimming home... Twisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted Evil... oh, a white bunny...YARRRR!!

Sophie Vherokior
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:17:00 - [594]

CCP Zulu's latest blog is definitely a step in the right direction. Clear information and a clear tone. Also, it takes a big man to step up in front of thousands and admit to making mistakes, so cut the guy some slack.

From the Hilmar e-mail:
"I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say".

This was the worst, the most damaging part of the whole thing, to find out that the CEO of CCP doesn't feel the opinions of the players matter unless they actually cancel their subscriptions. CCP, we built this game together. Sure you programmed the code and made the pretty spaceships, but us players built the corporations, the alliances, the lotteries, the univesities, the scams and politics and spying and all the other stuff that sets EVE apart from the other games out there. You gave us a sandbox and we built sandcastles. You cannot ignore us or say that our opinions do not matter, we have put as much time and energy into this as you have and paid you good money for the privilege.

Please take some time internally to reflect on your attitude towards your customers. I've worked many years in IT administration and support and I know how easy it is to 'demonize' the users (or in your case players). Users are seen as unreasonable, demanding and often to be the cause of their own problems. The irony here is that once you take such a stance towards your users you become part of the problem and without even knowing it will treat the unreasonable and the reasonable alike. Suddenly it becomes OK to send out a mail to all your employers stating that the users are 'very predictable' in their complaints and that instead of addressing those complaints we shall simply 'stay the course'.

In other words it might be time to have an internal discussion as to the danger of becoming jaded and bitter from the encounters with your customers.

Just my two cents.


Gurgeh Murat
Blue Republic
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:17:00 - [595]

Originally by CCP Fallout

Recently, a third-party Web site stated that they had received confidential information regarding a buyout of CCP by Sony Online Entertainment. I can confirm that neither Sony nor CCP are in such discussions, and CCP is and remains and independent company.

Good work, a swift, firm NO, THIS IS NOT HAPPENING.

I applaud such clear communication.

So....Why exactly is it taking days for CCP to say the same thing about non vanity MT's?

I repeat

Why exactly is it taking days for CCP to say the same thing about non vanity MT's?

Says it all really.....

Rookies Empire
Rookie Empire
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:18:00 - [596]

Originally by: Darik Jita
what you do, not what you say

The Pie Factory
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:18:00 - [597]

I see this as a positive reply to the community by CCP Zulu. I understand the concerns of the players who have been enraged by the prospect of sandbox breaking or market altering Aurum purchases.

I will be watching to see what the summit brings.

EvE forever.

Yeo San
Neoanarchistic Society
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:20:00 - [598]

To Arnar Hrafn Gylfason aka CCP Zulu
Your post is a first step, but it isn't what I want to hear.

1st. If you are "fueled" by emotions, ask your comrades to have a look over your text, before you insult thousands of players.

2nd. you want to buy time.
instead of giving the demanded answers to the community, you flee in an ominous emergency meeting with the csm.
so open your eyes and start working!

by your plans either the rage will continue one further week, arrousing of more and more members, or you will act.
and i advise you to act.
the numbers of dissappointed players that will quit eve will not be stopped by your post.

3rd. why others?
you are responsible for the communication catastrophy, zulu, stand for it!

4th. what mutual agreement?
you betrayed us. you lied to us. you have to build the foundation for further trust.
how can you speak about mutuality?

5th. what underlying concerns?
read the posts of the responses to your last devblog.
its your task! there you'll see what concerns are clearly pointed out. there are some posts of pure and unproductive hate, but there are some posts of clear and constructive critcism. do what you are paid for and read the posts!

6th. why patience?
asking for patience means that you haven't understood.
eve is burning. forums are burning. and you have kindled the flame to light the protest.
if you let it burn, if you stay in "patience", eve won't be eve anymore, but you just let it burn.
patience is a bad advice in this situation.

7th. be fearless!
you, sir, have fear.
patience, csm, no answers to onging matters, buying time - what are you doing??

you, zulu, have not convinced me.
try harder!

Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:20:00 - [599]

Originally by: Darik Jita
what you do, not what you say

Zelda Wei
New Horizon Trade Exchange
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:21:00 - [600]

"breach of trust"

It should be pretty obvious who this refers to, one person broke the NDA and published the leak.

Is he going to receive the same punishment as the previous CSM member to do the same or are we going to see a double standard at work?

The damage impact of this leak and has been much greater than the previous incident.

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