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Mercedes Lola
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:02:00 - [541]
 

The parley

words brought from players:Do not want at all!
words brought from ccp:we sorwy was a leak + yada yada csm+ no this 1 item wont come
actions from player's:unsub'ing
actions from ccp:

still pending for u to fill a blank there YARRRR!!

Livinia Koi
Wrecking Shots
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:02:00 - [542]
 

Well, I guess it's a start. Nice delaying tactic with the CSM, though. And nice use of vague "gold ammo" comment. I don't trust you. I hope you actually listen to the CSM this time around. A couple of months ago, I was excited for the future of EVE. Now, I doubt I will still be playing in 6 months. I hope you pull your s*** together. EVE is the greatest game I have ever played, but CCP seems hell-bent on f***ing it up. I hope this has finally taught you to listen.

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:02:00 - [543]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
I'll watch what you do, not what you say.

Alexandra Alt
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:02:00 - [544]
 

I didn't unsub before this blog post, but, I just did now, I am against everything everyone has been protesting yes, but, well, I was waiting for more news and more info regarding this issue. This post was not rly what I was expecting, you guys need to understand average EvE players aren't really 10 years old, and reading a damage control response, vague one also, getting the CSM's on the middle of the arguement as a probable means to be used as a scape goat just made me unsub as it clearly shows how not to handle mature costumers.

MT's are bad.... specially in a subscription based game (I wouldn't tolerate it if it would get free anyway)

THe only way my subscription will be renewed will be when I have a firm agreement signed and with colateral for no fullfilment that there will be no non-vanity items in the MT store.

Best regards.

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:03:00 - [545]
 

Originally by: RougeOperator
They way he wrote no gold ammo does little in the way of taking MTs off the table for real goods.


He is being a sneaky using literal language to parse his way out of this.


Later on when they sell ammo, he can say, But its not gold ammo right guys? TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Or maybe its a remap, or more slots to store corp fits, or training boosters.


No guys Ranger 1 says it explains everything and you're being foolish and manipulated. Why can't you see the wisdom in his words?

Seriously, dev blog couldn't have been more clear. He wasn't in any way beating around the bush. Why are u so easily manipulated?


Katra Novac
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:03:00 - [546]
 

Originally by: Onnen Mentar

I am very relieved to see CCP realize how important it is to trust.




I nearly fell off my seat laughing when I read that.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:03:00 - [547]
 

Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Ranger 1

Quote:
there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum


See you later, oh easily manipulated one.



Pot: "Hey kettle. U R Black."




Nope, just smarter and more mature than you.

Don't you have a rage quit to attend to...


Rho Nerys
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:03:00 - [548]
 

CCP Zulu wrote:

we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship.

strengthen what you just threw to pieces? Good luck!

Chernitski
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:03:00 - [549]
 

Originally by: Gedid Tava
As someone who knows the horizon broadening power of a devil's advocate discussion, I have little doubt that the leaked doc is not a reflection of CCP's actual practices.

However...

My wife did bring up a fairly amusing point. This game is full of ruthless, metagaming, scheming, cruel, backstabbing, greedy bastards who will steal every last dime from their "friends" the very second the payout is large enough. Now that CCP is being accused of milking cash, even if it is for vanity only items, people flip out about what a heart wrenching betrayal it is.

If nothing else, they're learning from their player base. The wife doesn't play but she summed it up perfectly. "Welcome to EVE."


+1

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:04:00 - [550]
 

Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: RougeOperator
They way he wrote no gold ammo does little in the way of taking MTs off the table for real goods.


He is being a sneaky using literal language to parse his way out of this.


Later on when they sell ammo, he can say, But its not gold ammo right guys? TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Or maybe its a remap, or more slots to store corp fits, or training boosters.


No guys Ranger 1 says it explains everything and you're being foolish and manipulated. Why can't you see the wisdom in his words?

Seriously, dev blog couldn't have been more clear. He wasn't in any way beating around the bush. Why are u so easily manipulated?





No i refuse to be manipulated is what it comes down to.

I read everything they say as if they are a lawyer of djinn trying to put one over on me.

I assume its like a monkeys paw wish scenario at this point.

Darius Sokarad
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:04:00 - [551]
 

UNSUBSCRIBED

Originally by: Dibble Dabble

Please quit. You want be missed. Some like MT, some dont, shame your a dumb fool who cant understand that MT is optional.

Now go, quit and dont come back.


I had reserved taking action on the issues at hand because I wanted to see what CCP's response would be.

I am sorely disappointed in what I have seen. Doublespeak and astroturfing are not the way to win back the trust of your customer base.

We as players need to stop thinking of ourselves as a "player" base and start thinking of ourselves as a "customer" base. When I have felt less than satisfied with someone I do business with, I approach them and try to work things out. I understand that as a business, CCP needs to make money and a reasonable amount of growth is to be expected, but this most recent behavior is unacceptable and I am afraid that unless more drastic remedies are undertaken I will have to take my business elsewhere.

Personally I think that CCP Zulu should not be in a position to interact with customers, and this most despicable practice of astroturfing needs to come to an immediate halt.

UNSUBSCRIBED, but I do retain some faint hope that my trust will be restored and I will continue to do business with what was once a most enjoyable partnership.

If CCP needs money so badly, I will be happy to pay double my current subscription fees if it means and end to this foolishness.

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:05:00 - [552]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Ranger 1

Quote:
there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum


See you later, oh easily manipulated one.



Pot: "Hey kettle. U R Black."




Nope, just smarter and more mature than you.

Don't you have a rage quit to attend to...




You're so smart and mature. Your comments couldn't just as easily apply to you as those you condemn.

I'm resubbing now and calling all my friends so they do the same. Thanks for bringing us into the light. We were all being so silly about this. You are in no way dumb.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:05:00 - [553]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Yeah
MT for nonvanity items won't completely destroy the market right?
Quote:
there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum
Obtuse much?
He's not arguing the blog — he's arguing that the viewpoint of "MT is optional" is insanely narrowminded and completely ignores the impact MT can have on a market such as EVE's.

…also, there is a large amount of room for evasion between "gold ammo" and "non-vanity items", so he'd have a point regardless.

Vincentus
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:05:00 - [554]
 

Oh and in the meantime, please fix CQ so we have the old hangar back instead of a door Confused

Dmoney3788
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:06:00 - [555]
 

Saying sorry after every time you punch someone in the face starts to lose its meaning until you stop punching them in the face.

Dalketh
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:07:00 - [556]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
We're reading you, be sure we're going to carry your words to CCP.

My stance on the issue in more words is here. Be SURE to contact your CSM members and let them know, we WILL read your mail.


Good read, however you admit that you see the 'face to face' meeting with them possibly a waste of a week or more time...

("Either way, we've been summoned to Iceland on very short notice. Frankly I don't see the point, we could convey mostly the same thing with the skype conversations we've been having non-stop")

Why not bring that up to CCP and your fellow CSM members and save us all a big delay (even if that is CCP's goal)?

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:08:00 - [557]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Yeah
MT for nonvanity items won't completely destroy the market right?
Quote:
there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum
Obtuse much?
He's not arguing the blog — he's arguing that the viewpoint of "MT is optional" is insanely narrowminded and completely ignores the impact MT can have on a market such as EVE's.

…also, there is a large amount of room for evasion between "gold ammo" and "non-vanity items", so he'd have a point regardless.


dude don't be immature. Ranger 1 is trying to explain this to us if we would just listen to his smarter more mature viewpoints.

Jiks
Caldari
Prophets of Doom
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:08:00 - [558]
 

"there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum."

This is a politicians answer. It does not rule out future plans for gold ammo, or indeed current plans for gold ships/modules/remaps/skillpoints/etc.

There have been literally thousands of posts asking for a simple yes/no to the question "will non-vanity items be sold for aurum?" ... Zulu has carefully not answered that question.

Good CCP are talking to the CSM, bad they are using this as delaying tactic. I heard there were ways of communicating over the internet these days to avoid the need to fly to a simple meeting but I must be getting senile.

Pao An
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:09:00 - [559]
 

Originally by: Juan Sezole
NONONONONO

Zulu you did it again.

WE DO NOT WANT MT AT ALL NO ITERATIONS NO DEVELOPMENT

GET THAT THRU YOUR HEAD FFS


Quit trying to speak for everyone. I have no problem with Micro transactions for vanity items. So long as they really are micro and not obscenely expensive.

Canuk EroSennin
Gallente
Public Security Section Nine
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:09:00 - [560]
 

Good lord almighty people! Listen to yourselves....CCP Zulu has heard your whining and *****ing and is going to call a meeting of the CSM (your representitives in eve voted in by you) and the CCP staff to discuss the future of eve, what you are all *****ing NON STOP about, and how to address the current problems facing eve to everyones benefit.

I get it....you dont trust CCP. Nothing you can do about it past *****ing on the forums or unsubbing. I will wait, patiently to see how CCP and CSM resolve this crisis within eve. CCP ZULU CAN NOT JUST THROW OUT WILD PROMISES TO APPEASE YOU, THEY WOULD JUST GET THROWN IN HIS FACE AGAIN AT A LATER DATE SHOULD EVE EVOLVE FURTHER. When the meeting is concluded and all avenues of discussion have been hammered out we will hopefully get a response one way or another.

The Fearless newsletter was only a discussion envoking document meant to initiate debates within CCP as to what eve might become if implemeted, and how it would profit CCP and the players. You all just use it in the worst possible context, as if, whats mentioned in it is already a guaranteed fact. It is not.

You all ask for an answer to so many questions however you will not get a quick answer that will lock a person into something! CCP doesn't know the entire future of AUR anymore than you all do....maybe some day in the future something will be sold on the AUR market and one quote from Zulu would undermine that entire possibility. I understand your concerns, I have them too, however CCP aren't just players who have no accountability....they have a responsibility to not just think about eve as it is now (like you all do) but to see what the future of eve could/should be and making off the collar appeasing comments will not be in eves best interests.

The problems must be discussed by multiple individuals of different viewpoints until the final decision is revealed. Until then just do whatever you have to do...unsub, keep playing or sit there waiting for your mother to pop her tit back in your mouth. Keep the pressure on but don't get carried away by fear.

There is nothing to fear except fear itself.

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:09:00 - [561]
 

Originally by: Dalketh
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
We're reading you, be sure we're going to carry your words to CCP.

My stance on the issue in more words is here. Be SURE to contact your CSM members and let them know, we WILL read your mail.


Good read, however you admit that you see the 'face to face' meeting with them possibly a waste of a week or more time...

("Either way, we've been summoned to Iceland on very short notice. Frankly I don't see the point, we could convey mostly the same thing with the skype conversations we've been having non-stop")

Why not bring that up to CCP and your fellow CSM members and save us all a big delay (even if that is CCP's goal)?


Done and done. There's advantages to having face to face meetings, depending on who has to participate, and it's frankly a looot faster and denser than typing words and waiting for people to answer. So it's more efficient.

It all depends on how the conversation goes, but we'll see.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:09:00 - [562]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Yeah
MT for nonvanity items won't completely destroy the market right?
Quote:
there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum
Obtuse much?
He's not arguing the blog — he's arguing that the viewpoint of "MT is optional" is insanely narrowminded and completely ignores the impact MT can have on a market such as EVE's.

…also, there is a large amount of room for evasion between "gold ammo" and "non-vanity items", so he'd have a point regardless.


Yes, there are a wide variety of things the term "non-vanity items" could cover.

Paying to open a bar, that could be used to generate ISK sales for the owner would be only one example.

Not really a vanity item, but certainly not "Pay to Win" either.

Either way, MT would still be optional.


Morphisat
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:09:00 - [563]
 

Guys guys, the CSM thing is just a PR stunt. A press release will go to all gaming media saying that the discussions were fruitful.

CCP is commited to Incarna and the cash shop. This doesn't mean they'll start selling non-vanity items tomorrow, but they might at some point in the future.

Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:10:00 - [564]
 

Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 26/06/2011 20:20:31
CCP Zulu…. The tone and demeanour of my blog on Friday ….... fuelled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days …..


(you had 2 spelling mistakes..ffs)

Umm hold on, this experiencing of breach of trust, do you mean you are emotionally broken because your board of directors went in a direction that you find distressing because it breaks the “ players are the game sandbox” or, the players actions that are manifesting on forums, across the cluster and in outside game news sources due to your arrogance towards the players?

IF the latter, what trust did we breach, trust in CCP?, you must be in DENIAL, what trust, its you who have broken your promises and betrayed the player base, the only trust u have in us is that we like your product, aka sandbox, and will pay a sum to build in it, you turn it into a litter tray, we won´t any more we´ll protest and leave, the only trust we had you betrayed.

I like many joined eve not because it was easy but, and this is a very important but, because it was hard, complex, unforgiving and a very long term commitment, I had a look and knew on day one that this sandbox of yours was going to occupy me what whats probably left of my life, it was who dies first, eve or me.

Eve is/was full of bright, intelligent people, it still is, the player base care more about CCP than most of your directors and major shareholders, and whats more its individual and collective intelligence far outstrips any resource CCP could ever acquire or contract on the marketplace.

We understand that CCP should have other products, we made CCP successful enough to takeover/merge with WW, we understood that WiS was the making of the ambulation and box engine for and WoD, we were more than happy to keep shoveling you cash because it was good for eve and CCP. What we did not expect as you promised it would not happen is MT in eve, yes develop the method for WoD, but introducing it into eve is CCP breaking trust with the eve community.

IF you had waited with the NeX until Dust was in Beta it would have been an excellent way to pay for planetary ops, but you went and made a derivatives engine that evaporates a company liability, aka PLEX.

You don´t understand, your games company has turned into a short term cash grab machine, those investors who we were told were games players gave what we now know was only an illusion of trust that they thought like we did, however it turns out that their games have us as their pixels and they don´t give a **** about us, you, or your grandmothers, all they crave is money and power, they don´t respect you they never have.

P.S. I have just used a PLEX to reactivate my account so I could post this, I did you a favor, I decreased your liability, you have 29 days to explain where the company is going, the players are your product more so than the game, you guys seem to have forgotten that.


P.P.S, i log in and find a bot in system that i´m going to have to pop days after i reported it, just send a GM to test them, them pop them back into a clone vat, or u jelli


edited cos i saw a mistake,

GATORAN
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:10:00 - [565]
 

Originally by: Pao An
Originally by: Juan Sezole
NONONONONO

Zulu you did it again.

WE DO NOT WANT MT AT ALL NO ITERATIONS NO DEVELOPMENT

GET THAT THRU YOUR HEAD FFS


Quit trying to speak for everyone. I have no problem with Micro transactions for vanity items. So long as they really are micro and not obscenely expensive.


Speak for yourself, I don't particularly mind MT...I just mind MT that gives you an ingame advantage/boost

Sinnek
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:10:00 - [566]
 

seems obvious to me that they cannot simply say yes or no to whether or not there will be any non-vanity items in the nex store, because they want to sell novelty items and ships like i.e the Zephyr and Primae. these have specialized uses in real game play and thus are not "vanity" items, but are not in any way really an advantage as their roles can easily be filled or even bettered by a "normal" ship.

Dmoney3788
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:11:00 - [567]
 

Originally by: Jiks
"there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum."

This is a politicians answer. It does not rule out future plans for gold ammo, or indeed current plans for gold ships/modules/remaps/skillpoints/etc.

There have been literally thousands of posts asking for a simple yes/no to the question "will non-vanity items be sold for aurum?" ... Zulu has carefully not answered that question.

Good CCP are talking to the CSM, bad they are using this as delaying tactic. I heard there were ways of communicating over the internet these days to avoid the need to fly to a simple meeting but I must be getting senile.

Exactly. If CCP had no intention of selling non-vanity items through Aurum, they would have said so as quickly as they denied the Sony merger.

DarthMopp
Gallente
I.D.I.O.T.
Sev3rance
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:11:00 - [568]
 

Edited by: DarthMopp on 26/06/2011 20:12:57
First: This Blog was one quantum leap better than its predecessor! I think thats a common ground we all can start from.

I am willing to give CCP the benefit of doubt for the moment. The only cause why is because you made this unique, brilliant game i enjoyed for
roundabout five years now and until Incarna i had at least the feeling that you might know what you are actually doing. That trust was deeply distressed by Incarna, the Newsletter and the leaked E-Mail. Nevertheless I am actually willing to listen to what you have to say because i am still refusing to believe that CCP is willing to slap their very own, faithful community.

So, speak up and let actions follow accordingly. Be honest and stay to your words. Remember: If one stakeholder is leaving, the other two cannot provide the stability for your company anymore.

Ps.: I know its an old saying, and i guess everyone heard it from his parents before (as i was telling my children the same) but i think it fits with all that MT-Madness in the Gaming industry:

"If everyone is jumping from the bridge, then you are going to do the same?"



Buffy McChestyChest
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:11:00 - [569]
 

you have lost credibilty and my respect. I am closing my extra accounts, and will close this one if i see no changes by the July 1st meeeting.

You have made a terrible error in judgement, and have chosen a terrible decision, and may have destroyed your game permanetly

I would ask for your money back from your hired consultants, they have failed you miserably, and now you are suffering the consequences

Ubumble
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:11:00 - [570]
 

Time to calm down, perhaps?

This is how it works:
- they screwed up, and yes, destroyed a lot of trust
- a lot of the community protested and they reacted badly
- now they seem truly worried and have started taking steps
- we wait, see what they do and take appropriate steps

If you like the game, you'll be hoping that CCP reacts well from this point.

Let's be optimistic and very vigilant.


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