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Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:54:00 - [511]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 26/06/2011 19:56:40

Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 26/06/2011 19:32:11

Gentlemen, we already knew that Soundwave was requested by CCP to write his article from a Gordon Gekko point of view.

We already knew that the points list in the Fearless edition were put in purposefully to provoke discussion and reinforce where the implementation of MT could go wrong if greed overtook reason.

We already knew that the copy that was originally leaked had been edited, and taken completely out of context.

You simply chose not to hear it.

And yet you keep referring to it as "proof" that they have a plan in place to do so, despite a direct refutation.

You, the EVE Online community, have been massively trolled.

And you couldn't have made it easier.


whew that's a relief

that means they can just simply say "it's all not true, we'll never destroy the game backbone (the market) by allowing non-vanity items in the aurum store"

right?

so why haven't they?

(these are what we call rhetorical questions. if the answers aren't painfully obvious to you you are as deluded as R1 here.)

looks like i'm ~never resubbing~
enough of us do it they'll stop just talking? i doubt it. upper management is the same wherever you go. it might as well already be in the game.

o7 eve
you will be missed.
the vision was beautiful until the green eyed moster decided to destroy it.




Quote:
there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum


See you later, oh easily manipulated one.



Hecate Lionfire
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:54:00 - [512]
 

Will bacon be the bacon in the bacon of the bacon to the bacon of the bacon when bacon of the bacon is bacon to the bacon and bacon becomes the bacon of the bacon when the game is bacon?

BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:54:00 - [513]
 

Originally by: Salpad
Originally by: Leah Pendragon
The utter refusal to say 'There will be no non-vanity MT' is deeply disturbing.


This.



And if CCP are so strapped for cash, why not just increase subscription costs slightly, like from 15 euro per month to 17 euro per month, and a corresponding increase in ETC prices? It's been 15 for over 4 years now. I can live with a small amount of inflation.



http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540116&page=9#252

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:54:00 - [514]
 

Edited by: RougeOperator on 26/06/2011 19:56:24
Originally by: RougeOperator
Edited by: RougeOperator on 26/06/2011 19:50:24
You start off by making it sound like its our fault?


And this is a blatant stall tactic. Still trying to get us to Forget about what you guys did.

You want us to believe you give a damn about the CSM after ignoring them time and again? All the sudden you want us to magicially belive you give a damn what they say. Its just more PR stunt.

The EMAIL needs to be addressed. I want IRL ramifications for the things he said. Not just more talk.

And no one believes that Newsletter was just talk.


You all just want to wait it out till we forget and proceed as planed.


We are watching what you are doing, not what you are saying.



Also his apology is way too late. And the blog starts off with the wrong tone and excuses. You dont make excuses in a a real apology. Excuses mixed in destroy the sincerity and credibility. When you toss excuses in you dont really believe you should be apologizing at all in most cases.

How are those 1000 dollar pants Btw.

Quote:
there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum


Also note he said "GOLD AMMO". So when they come back and charge for some type of ammo he can say he told the truth cause its not gold.

They are being very clever in not rejecting micros for in game items if you pay attention.


Onnen Mentar
Murientor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:55:00 - [515]
 

Edited by: Onnen Mentar on 26/06/2011 19:57:23
Now that's more of a reply.

I am very relieved to see CCP realize how important it is to trust.

However, I am also glad that someone within CCP had the balls to stand up for the community and let us know what was being discussed internally. Yes, it caused a crisis, but it also is a unique opportunity to reestablish trust. Trust has to be earned. You have to earn it from your employees and from your customers.

Also, if CCP management strongly believes in something (e.g. microtransactions), then they should be fearless and argue the point with us directly instead of agreeing one thing publically and internally discussing another.

I still think incarna is the worst (free?!?) expansion CCP have come up with ever, and yes I think CCP is being very greedy. Sad

P.S. A big giant NO -- a NO you really mean and intend to stick to for at least a couple years -- to micro transactions for non-vanity stuff really is needed if you want to keep me as a customer.


Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:55:00 - [516]
 

We're reading you, be sure we're going to carry your words to CCP.

My stance on the issue in more words is here. Be SURE to contact your CSM members and let them know, we WILL read your mail.

Tutskii
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:56:00 - [517]
 

I think this blog is a step in the right direction but I don't like the vagueness and ambiguity of the language.

It can easily be backpedaled on or said "well we just meant ammo".

As for Iceland, why not do things on SKYPE? Will we get approval by drunk csm's like last time with the Gold Scorpion?

And what services exactly?

There are a lot of questions left and I don't think this covers it.

Ms Michigan
Gallente
Aviation Professionals for EVE
Fusion Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:56:00 - [518]
 

Get HILMAR out here!
...Let him take the heat for what are his bad business ideas.

*I may marvel at a person who can afford a $1000 pair of pants, but I certainly don't respect them for spending their money that way.

CCP wants us all to quit. This is Hilmar's acceptable loss to alienate the VERY player base that MAKES EVE and replace us with his version of veal cattle.

You people (CCP) may have made the Sandbox we play in... but we ARE THE SANDBOX. We are what make EVE great. We make this game. FURTHERMORE, it is bad enough we pay monthly already and get Mediocre PROGRAMMING (Too many to list), LAX SECURITY (Cookie-derp/new forums), and POOR LOGIC AT TIMES (GAME BALANCE ISSUES)...Then you try and pull a fast one on us with this MT bull. You lie.

We still come because we love that EVE and CCP are better companies than 90% of the games/gaming companies out there....but YOU (CCP) are making us change our mind on that. You want to act like all the other companies and follow their dumb logic, FINE - act like them and see what happens to the Sandbox. Next thing you know it will be empty of all the great sand castles we built and all the cool kids that made them.
CYA!

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:56:00 - [519]
 

Originally by: Dibble Dabble
Originally by: Salco Masir
There is no thrust atm. -2 subs. I'll watch your actions!


Please quit. You want be missed. Some like MT, some dont, shame your a dumb fool who cant understand that MT is optional.

Now go, quit and dont come back.


Yeah
MT for nonvanity items won't completely destroy the market right?

ur so smart

Estelle McDeal
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:57:00 - [520]
 

All they are doing is buying time.

Did they listen to us when it came to sanctum nerfs?

No all they wanted to do is sell more PLEXes. PLEX price went up meaning the demand was much higher then the offer.

If they really never planned to move microtransaction other then vanity items they would have said that immediately.

You lost our trust and calling in CSM for any credability will not work.

You gave a **** on CSM doing all other changes and all you want to do now is buy time which means more RL ISK until the obvious is stated.

You will sell game affecting items for RL cash one or the other way.

No cease fire and no clam down. This time we will not step down like stupid cash cows.

Before calling in CSM let Hilmar state in plain public that this was never intended and you will never again even think about it.

If not, rest in peace EvE.

Ban Doga
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:57:00 - [521]
 

Edited by: Ban Doga on 26/06/2011 19:57:27
Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 26/06/2011 19:55:54
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 26/06/2011 19:53:58
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 26/06/2011 19:32:11

Gentlemen, we already knew that Soundwave was requested by CCP to write his article from a Gordon Gekko point of view.

We already knew that the points list in the Fearless edition were put in purposefully to provoke discussion and reinforce where the implementation of MT could go wrong if greed overtook reason.

We already knew that the copy that was originally leaked had been edited, and taken completely out of context.

You simply chose not to hear it.

And yet you keep referring to it as "proof" that they have a plan in place to do so, despite a direct refutation.

You, the EVE Online community, have been massively trolled.

And you couldn't have made it easier.


whew that's a relief

that means they can just simply say "it's all not true, we'll never destroy the game backbone (the market) by allowing non-vanity items in the aurum store"

right?

so why haven't they?

(these are what we call rhetorical questions. if the answers aren't painfully obvious to you you are as deluded as R1 here.)

looks like i'm ~never resubbing~
enough of us do it they'll stop just talking? i doubt it. upper management is the same wherever you go. it might as well already be in the game.

o7 eve
you will be missed.
the vision was beautiful until the green eyed moster decided to destroy it.


Quote:
there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum


See you later, oh easily manipulated one.





So an attribute remap does not count as "gold ammo", right?
Anything else?

Xanthanan
Caldari
Seniors Clan
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:57:00 - [522]
 

Thank you CCP Zulu, I realise, as others have pointed out, that there is much more needed to fully pacify the player base but this is a start.

+1 to you for realising that your previous comments were emotionaly compromised, theres been a lot of that going round recently. Lets hope that those that are here because they love the game realise they could also have been guilty of that too. To the trolls that invariably congregate around threads like this, more calmness = less food for you!

I as many others cancelled my subscription this weekend. Being asked to play the game I love against RL rich people who must win with AUR boosted skills and equipment is MUCH worse than facing the entire DRF with PL in tow, that was just a consequence of gameplay and to be honest I have lost count the number of +1's I should have given in game enemies for their stance on the thorny subject of MT... The community > in game rivalries.

The CSM / CCP meeting needs to produce real results, I hope this is the case as I see the results of that meeting having a major bearing on people renewing their subs. So if I get back into game mode (which I have failed to do all weekend) more subs = more tagets which is good :)

Dibble Dabble
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:57:00 - [523]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
We're reading you, be sure we're going to carry your words to CCP.

My stance on the issue in more words is here. Be SURE to contact your CSM members and let them know, we WILL read your mail.


You can read my post.

Some want MT in all its glory. Your all scared your RMT operations and bot alliances will suffer with MT.

CSM are just another vanity item, voted for by lemmings.

Kerotakis
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:57:00 - [524]
 

Edited by: Kerotakis on 26/06/2011 19:57:55
It's hard to believe your damage control when your own internal discussion of microtransaction tells you to keep it hush-hush lest the subscribers get up in arms. This and your tremendous condescension towards us is hardly endearing.

Originally by: Ghoest
Ill watch what you do not what you say.



Halte quivala
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:58:00 - [525]
 

Buying airline tickets for some guys to come over in order to have a talk, instead of using other tools available, and way less expensive. Some people have no idea what money is, really.

Malkev
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:58:00 - [526]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu
Whatever you choose to do reflects what you are and what you want others to think you are.

Aineko Macx
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:58:00 - [527]
 


Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:58:00 - [528]
 

Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
Originally by: Dibble Dabble
Originally by: Salco Masir
There is no thrust atm. -2 subs. I'll watch your actions!


Please quit. You want be missed. Some like MT, some dont, shame your a dumb fool who cant understand that MT is optional.

Now go, quit and dont come back.


Yeah
MT for nonvanity items won't completely destroy the market right?

ur so smart


Quote:
there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum


Obtuse much?

Malka Badi'a
Suffoco Noctis
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:59:00 - [529]
 

Originally by: Fran Crick
P.S. one other point Malka...nice sig!


Because you're so sweet, I'll be kind.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540116&page=16#476

This is a second, recent attempt, for a CSM to explain how they were sharing the phrases with CCP, and how it should be worded. It seems a compromise was made. As noted by the CSM, if he feels that it ends up meaning something else he will be quick to inform us.

Amber Villaneous
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:59:00 - [530]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
We're reading you, be sure we're going to carry your words to CCP.

My stance on the issue in more words is here. Be SURE to contact your CSM members and let them know, we WILL read your mail.


You are a sell-out and a joke if you go to this "Emergency" meeting prior to CCP stating that there will never be non-vanity items sold.

Xander Hunt
Minmatar
Dead Rats Tell No Tales
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:59:00 - [531]
 

Originally by: Fractal Muse
Oh my.

Who's brilliant plan is it to go the 'no communication' route?

Take the fire. Take the heat. Burn a bit. And walk away with a head held high that you interacted with your playerbase.

Putting everything on hold won't help your situation. Waiting another week will not help.

Goodness. Just come clean with what you are planning on doing and be done with it. Let the market decide if it likes your idea or not.

The more you play the shady, disingenuous, inept role... the more people will leave. Who can take a company that rolls out an expansion and then claims that they don't even know what they are doing seriously at this point?




I personally think its a brilliant idea to have the CSM out there. Would rather have a public TS3 feed where only CSM and CCP could speak and everyone else could listen in on, but alas, if they're flying out there, thats good too.

I like this because dealing with a small group of people is going to be easier to work with than a huge angry mob who scream demands.

I say let the CSM and CCP get a few wrinkles out. I just hope CCP doesn't get them too drunk to remember WTF happened. ;)

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:59:00 - [532]
 

Thanks for the blog Zulu, but it won't change my opinions until I see the results.

Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 26/06/2011 19:30:31
Originally by: Consortium Agent
Will you be selling non-vanity items in the MT store?
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540116&page=9#252

The CSMs and the developers are on the same page, since the term "gold ammo" has the origin from World of Tanks. As that link states, it means any tangible improvement, from ships to ammo.

I will continue to post this for those who are so far beyond rationality and intellectual maturity that they couldn't read their way out of the alphabet.
What you are linking is Trebor's post. People want to hear it from the horse's mouth, and here's why:

Originally by: Kith Kanann
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Weaselior
This sentence is a nightmare, please confirm what it means is "there will not be any 'gold ammo', i.e. non-vanity 'micro' transactions".

When CSM was asked for input on the devblog, I was concerned about this wording. Here is the alternate wording that I suggested, which I believe expresses the essence of CCP Zulu's intent:

However, I want to make one thing absolutely clear. Despite the impression given by the "point-counterpoint" debate that appeared in the Fearless newsletter, there have never at any time been any plans to sell "gold ammo" or any other game-affecting goods for Aurum.



And yet it didn't make it into the blog...

Trebor suggested alternative wording that would remove ambiguity, and the change was REJECTED.
Ask yourself why removing ambiguity in this case would be bad?



Now for some serious tinfoil hattery.
CCP could keep doing this every 12 months or so to judge the opinion of the playerbase. As soon as there isn't a response like this, non-vanity is in-game.
I don't actually think CCP is going this route, but if this issue crops up again, then I will.

Siiee
Recycled Heroes
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:00:00 - [533]
 

Your careful wording of "were and are no plans" reminds me of the exact same wording used one year ago when the line was there are no plans for MT at all. Present and past but no commitment to the future, which is what we are really concerned with here. The fact that you can not simply tell us what we are looking for tells me that you're just trying to find a way to tell us the answer we /don't/ want to hear in a way that will not enrage us further.

The tone however feels refreshing and honest, and while it doesn't restore any of my trust in CCP I do appreciate it.

Tridik
Caldari
High Sec Risk Management Services
Waterboard
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:00:00 - [534]
 

Originally by: lceman
Edited by: lceman on 26/06/2011 19:46:11
what worries me is the shift in ccp policy, and their enapt to confirm what they will be selling in the shop or give word of what they will not be selling, as long time fan (2003) and player i'm worried they will one day start selling premium bpo's in their shop, why not it will make them money why not a 10 run zealot blueprint me 0 pe 0 or maybe originals, there is truely nothing that will prevent them for selling anything in that shop for a price.

i spent close to 9 years in this game and have nice collection of t2 bpo's. this has been through hard work, not cause i'm rich in real life, cause face it i'm not cause i've spent 9 years playing this maybe "soon to be stupid **** game".





This is literally one of the most important dudes in the T2 Production community, CCP. You could effectively DESTROY your much tauted "Player-Run Economy".


As far as no more releases until CSM meeting. Sorry, your stalling is not good enough. Your wording is nebulous at BEST, and once again your reply is inappropriate. We feel no kinship or loyalty to you, why should we?

DarkTemplarCrimsonWolf
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:00:00 - [535]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
We're reading you, be sure we're going to carry your words to CCP.

My stance on the issue in more words is here. Be SURE to contact your CSM members and let them know, we WILL read your mail.


You and all the CSM delegates should know one thing: if CCP ever breaches it's promise of non-vanity items ever being introduced in the game you all are honor bound by the positions you gained at least partly from the trust of your fellow pod pilots to avoid any NDAs and spread the news, this goes beyond one person, this affects hundreds of thousands of people some of which love this game, Hell I've grown up with this game, I've been playing it since 15 and it's one of the few games that's stuck with me (only MMO), protect it for us guys and if you cannot at least warn us to protect ourselves from the coming storm.

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:00:00 - [536]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1

Quote:
there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum


See you later, oh easily manipulated one.



Pot: "Hey kettle. U R Black."


Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:00:00 - [537]
 

Originally by: Amber Villaneous
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
We're reading you, be sure we're going to carry your words to CCP.

My stance on the issue in more words is here. Be SURE to contact your CSM members and let them know, we WILL read your mail.


You are a sell-out and a joke if you go to this "Emergency" meeting prior to CCP stating that there will never be non-vanity items sold.


Quote:
there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum


Pack your bags.

Gedid Tava
Gallente
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:01:00 - [538]
 

As someone who knows the horizon broadening power of a devil's advocate discussion, I have little doubt that the leaked doc is not a reflection of CCP's actual practices.

However...

My wife did bring up a fairly amusing point. This game is full of ruthless, metagaming, scheming, cruel, backstabbing, greedy bastards who will steal every last dime from their "friends" the very second the payout is large enough. Now that CCP is being accused of milking cash, even if it is for vanity only items, people flip out about what a heart wrenching betrayal it is.

If nothing else, they're learning from their player base. The wife doesn't play but she summed it up perfectly. "Welcome to EVE."

Akiriy Azuriko
Gallente
Demon Theory
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:01:00 - [539]
 

CCP need to stop worrying about MT stuff and step back and have a think why there not getting enough subscribers.
MT wont fix the " financial Crisis " CCP must be in to even suggest such a idiotic idea, why even contemplate the notion.
all its going to do is cause rage and loss thousands of subscribers, who will tell all there mates not to play eve because its
turning fail, didn't realize CCP were such scum, ready to **** of thousands to get a quick buck.

Poor form gentlemen, very poor form indeed.

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:01:00 - [540]
 

Edited by: RougeOperator on 26/06/2011 20:01:46
They way he wrote no gold ammo does little in the way of taking MTs off the table for in game boosts and goods.


He is being a sneaky using literal language to parse his way out of this.


Later on when they sell ammo, he can say, But its not gold ammo right guys? TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Or maybe its a remap, or more slots to store corp fits, or training boosters.


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