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Lepresak Nara
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:47:00 - [481]

You wish to bribe them? And if you fail a NDA as in the past?

You are a liar.
You did loose your integrity.

Akiriy Azuriko
Demon Theory
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:47:00 - [482]

Originally by: Iden Secundus
Why should we believe you?
You did lie us.

Your task is to lie us.
So you are lying us

Trust? How? Why?

Yah >:O

Mashie Saldana
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:47:00 - [483]

Originally by: LIOZTH
Edited by: LIOZTH on 26/06/2011 19:44:13
Originally by: Xia Long
thanks for the "apologies" Zulu (not joking) but
i really think waiting another week to discuss the topic "live" with the CSM is not the soultion
CSM =/= EVE comunity, they represent just a small portion of it

This is so true and bears repetition, well put Xia, the discussion needs to also center around the community *not just the CSM*. I think some sort of virtual town meeting is warranted.

It's not the CSM's fault that your voice isn't heard because you didn't vote.

Mena Arzi
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:48:00 - [484]

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Saving Face
In that case, he lied again because we know there have been plans for non-vanity purchases.

Numerous CCP folks at different levels have told me that Fearless is deliberately provocative, and is not official company policy. Of course, I have not seen any other issues, so I can't say for sure. Perhaps someone should leak some copies to me... Twisted Evil

What about PLEX for Remaps? We know that was one of the original ideas, not exactly gamebreaking but still non-vanity MT.

Henrica Gaufridus
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:48:00 - [485]

I'm sorry, Zulu, but CCP has squandered the trust I had in them. The promise of "no money transactions" was broken already. CCP hasn't communicated with the players, hasn't communicated with the CSM, has IGNORED the advice of the CSM, has ignored the will of the player base.

I don't trust your company when they say "we have no plan to do X". CCP allegedly had no plans to introduce MT. The only way to earn my trust (and likely the rest of the angry players here) is to roll it back. Eliminate Aurum. It was an OKAY idea when the idea was "limited to vanity items". Unfortunately, I nor most players trust that it's going to stay that way, despite that CCP has "no plans" to extend it into game-changing items.

I don't blame you, Zulu. You are not the company, and you're writing on behalf of the company.

I will continue to protest until either
a) Aurum is removed
b) My remaining time on Eve runs out.

Posted - 2011.06.26 19:48:00 - [486]

Edited by: RougeOperator on 26/06/2011 19:50:24
You start off by making it sound like its our fault?

And this is a blatant stall tactic. Still trying to get us to Forget about what you guys did.

You want us to believe you give a damn about the CSM after ignoring them time and again? All the sudden you want us to magicially belive you give a damn what they say. Its just more PR stunt.

The EMAIL needs to be addressed. I want IRL ramifications for the things he said. Not just more talk.

And no one believes that Newsletter was just talk.

You all just want to wait it out till we forget and proceed as planed.

We are watching what you are doing, not what you are saying.

Salco Masir
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:48:00 - [487]

There is no thrust atm. -2 subs. I'll watch your actions!

Katra Novac
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:49:00 - [488]

Originally by: Garricky
Originally by: Debbie DoesDallas
This is a good start. The fact they are flying the CSM out on short notice means they are taking this issue seriously.

Time for folks to dial it down and see what comes out of the CSM Summit.

It's a smokescreen/delay tactic, otherwise they would talk to the CSM by conference call and get us info fast - not a week or more delay to fly them out there for no reason. DELAY is the goal. To say they need to hear the complaints from a CSM's mouth, I find insulting as a player.

Delaying tactic is my view too.

Hand Of Midas
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:49:00 - [489]

First, thank you for the post on a Sunday - that at least says something to a good many of us.

I hate to see the higher-ups at CCP floating further and further away from reality and trying to drag others with them. You can only force so much Kool-Aid down each other's throats before people start vomiting and that's exactly what these leaks are - they are employees being sickened by what they see and are being told to believe.

I hope the meeting with the CSM yields many new insights into your future plans for EVE. This game more than any other requires one to consider their character's destiny and future and that is why it is imperative that we, the players, be given some level of transparency and feeling of inclusiveness in the game-changing decisions made by the developers. Otherwise, you probably need to scrub the whole idea of a player/character-controlled galaxy.

Posted - 2011.06.26 19:49:00 - [490]

Originally by: Kithrus
Why does everyone keep expecting worst case?

Becouse its CCP.

Sgt Maru
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:49:00 - [491]

Can we have a live stream cast of the meetings? You could use the AT equipment. It would also be nice if mayhaps you could let the CSM field questions and suggestions directly from some dedicated chat/forum during the meetings.

So that's what I'd suggest, take the AT recording equipment and set up the round tables and get us (the community) involved as well, so it'd be just like AT, but without the pew pew between the discussions.

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:50:00 - [492]

Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 26/06/2011 19:32:11

Gentlemen, we already knew that Soundwave was requested by CCP to write his article from a Gordon Gekko point of view.

We already knew that the points list in the Fearless edition were put in purposefully to provoke discussion and reinforce where the implementation of MT could go wrong if greed overtook reason.

We already knew that the copy that was originally leaked had been edited, and taken completely out of context.

You simply chose not to hear it.

And yet you keep referring to it as "proof" that they have a plan in place to do so, despite a direct refutation.

You, the EVE Online community, have been massively trolled.

And you couldn't have made it easier.

whew that's a relief

that means they can just simply say "it's all not true, we'll never destroy the game backbone (the market) by allowing non-vanity items in the aurum store"


so why haven't they?

(these are what we call rhetorical questions. if the answers aren't painfully obvious to you you are as deluded as R1 here.)

looks like i'm ~never resubbing~
enough of us do it they'll stop just talking? i doubt it. upper management is the same wherever you go. it might as well already be in the game.

o7 eve
you will be missed.
the vision was beautiful until the green eyed moster decided to destroy it.

Posted - 2011.06.26 19:50:00 - [493]

I'll take your word for it that "no gold ammo" means "no non-vanity items or benefits."

Now, just get rid of The Door and give me back my hangar, and I'll renew my accounts.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:50:00 - [494]

Originally by: knanid volatar
Originally by: lceman
what worries me is the shift in ccp policy, and their enapt to confirm what they will be selling in the shop or not, or give word of what they will not be selling, as long time fan (2003) and player i'm worried they will one day start selling premium bpo's in their shop, why not it will make them money why not a 10 run zealot blueprint me 0 pe 0 or maybe originals, there is truely nothing that will prevent them for selling anything in that shop for a price.

i spent close to 9 years in this hame and have nice collection of t2 bpo's. this has been through hard work, not cause i'm rich in real life, cause face it i'm not cause i've spent 9 years playing this maybe "soon to be stupid **** game".

2003 -> 2011, is 8 years not 9.

Never heard of Beta testers I see.

The Offerer
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:50:00 - [495]

Edited by: The Offerer on 26/06/2011 19:51:14
Smart first step. It's all up to CSM-CCP summit now.

Just a hint: a positive outcome means +$60 MONTHLY (4 industrial accounts) for CCP from me. Yes, that's ALMOST a monocle a month for nothing more than a game content that was there for years.

Republica Winder
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:50:00 - [496]

Originally by: Eclorc
Originally by: Akara Ito
Originally by: CCP Fallout
Read Zulu's newest dev blog here


So you're gonna talk to the CSM, tell them to **** off, tell them they cant speak about that because of NDA, and then tell the community "CSM agreed" ?


Vague words that actually mean no commitment, nor directly answer the question that was given, I spy "wiggle-room".

Stalling for time hoping for pitchforks to go.

Of course the CSM will get slapped with NDA or at the very least will be delayed in releasing information somehow, and CCP will forge ahead with non-vanity items - anyone who believes otherwise at this point is delusional.

CCP are spearheading microtransactions in game for every other game that will come afterward.
Do you honestly want this to be the future of gaming?

Again, the CSM is being used to stall for another couple weeks, as a propaganda tool, and as props.

They will be making themselves look like fools if they go, especially if the trip only results in:

"we and the CSM agreed that RMT is needed for EVE to thrive"

and, "we agree that the items are too expensive, so we are marking the monocle down to $50 from $70".

That right there represents THE BEST CASE SCENARIO. They won't be coming back with anyting more than that, and possibly even less.

Amber Villaneous
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:50:00 - [497]

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
That said, if this meeting turns out to be a farce, we will let you know in no uncertain terms. If I am forced to endure those $^&#& IcelandAir seats for no good reason, there will be hell to pay.

If you go to this "Emergency" meeting prior to CCP unequivocally stating that there will never be non-vanity items sales then you are a joke, the CSM is a joke and CCP thinks we are stupid.

Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:50:00 - [498]

"We will see"...said the blind guy to the deaf one.
18 days left on my account and i have seen quite enough.
Make me change my mind.
'nuff said...

Fran Crick
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:50:00 - [499]

Edited by: Fran Crick on 26/06/2011 19:54:26
Malka, maybe you should look here beforte shouting your mouth off any more, he said "gold ammo", as you can see there is a lot more you can get with gold in WOT!

Originally by: Rhivre
For those who think gold ammo just means gold ammo

World of tanks gold stuff

I'm only guessing here, but you prob don't live in the same house as Zulu, or even know the guy in RL? how would you know....for sure.....that when he says "gold ammo" he means non-vanity items in general?

P.S. one other point Malka...nice sig!

Akiriy Azuriko
Demon Theory
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:51:00 - [500]

they could stop half the rage just by saying there will be no P2W

stupid noobz >:[

Lao Mah
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:51:00 - [501]

"fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days"

Sounds serious. Management crisis? Who fired who?

We'll just have to wait and see what CCP does next.

Callic Veratar
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:51:00 - [502]

To those of you who still don't accept any of this, I have a request. Instead of just unsubscribing, please biomass your characters. If you're actually done with EVE, prove it.

If not, HTFU and play the game. Unsubscribing and uninstalling means nothing when you can resub and reinstall in a matter of hours.

Posted - 2011.06.26 19:52:00 - [503]

Edited by: GATORAN on 26/06/2011 19:53:04
Edited by: GATORAN on 26/06/2011 19:52:26
Originally by: Garricky
Originally by: Debbie DoesDallas
This is a good start. The fact they are flying the CSM out on short notice means they are taking this issue seriously.

Time for folks to dial it down and see what comes out of the CSM Summit.

It's a smokescreen/delay tactic, otherwise they would talk to the CSM by conference call and get us info fast - not a week or more delay to fly them out there for no reason. DELAY is the goal. To say they need to hear the complaints from a CSM's mouth, I find insulting as a player.

I can play this game too...lets see: Suppose that a conference call was held instead, here is what I would be saying if I had your current attitude:

It's a smoke screen/delay tactic, otherwise they would talk to the CSM face to face and get to look them into the eyes, we're sick and tired of these cheap solutions. We want to be taken seriously CCP! Not a day or less for some cheap compounded info. Take a week and prepare a proper statement and meeting, fly them to Iceland (for good reason too!). DELAY is the goal. To say that they need to hear the complaints from a CSM's mouth over a phone, I find insulting as a player.

*/hypothetical scenario*

See how easy that was?
You're not helping anyone with this conspiracy nonsense.

Dibble Dabble
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:52:00 - [504]

Originally by: Salco Masir
There is no thrust atm. -2 subs. I'll watch your actions!

Please quit. You want be missed. Some like MT, some dont, shame your a dumb fool who cant understand that MT is optional.

Now go, quit and dont come back.

Republica Winder
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:52:00 - [505]

Originally by: Akiriy Azuriko
they could stop half the rage just by saying there will be no P2W

stupid noobz >:[

They won't, because as the newsletter stated, Pay-To-Win is in the plan. That they won't disavow this (which would have squelched a significant part of the rage) tells you that this is what they want to do.

Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:53:00 - [506]

Edited by: BeanBagKing on 26/06/2011 19:52:57
Originally by: Rion Deteisan
Edited by: Rion Deteisan on 26/06/2011 19:34:50
Edited by: Rion Deteisan on 26/06/2011 19:33:56
there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.

(it was going to be platinum ammo)


(it was only going to be ships)


(Great idea!!.. lets call in CSM to see if we can make plans to do gold ammo too!)

Sunbird Huy
White Noise.
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:53:00 - [507]

Little too late, don't you think?

As someone stated here, you have left EVE to burn in the fiercest fires it has had since CCP gave birth to it, watching from the shadows.
The amount of trust that CCP lost in these past few days, it will take months, if not years of hard work to gain back.

And what about players that have been literally pushed to the edges of their patience and perseverance? The ones that protested in hubs, the ones that canceled their subscriptions(those did the most hard thing for any of us to do, hats down to them), and the rest of us who raged and cried out through the forums?

But at least there are hints that community has the power to affect CCP's decisions. And ability, determination and will to stay the course and fight what is wrong.
I wish CCP best of luck in their future work and a major turn around in their community relations politics.

WE, the citizens of New Eden, are watching - what you do, and not what you say from now on.


Posted - 2011.06.26 19:53:00 - [508]

Trebor - you posted:

"With regard to speed of reporting, I will try and get reports out every day detailing general progress, and we will try and get a full report out ASAP. We know this is time-sensitive."

If you realize speed is a big issue - why make us all wait for a week or more by talking to CCP in ICELAND? Do it by Skype and save us all that time waiting. Otherwise it seems just a CCP delay tactic.

Arista Shahni
Murasaki Mining and Manufacturing
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:53:00 - [509]

To be buried soundlessly, in a stream of responses, like all of our voices have been.

Ah well, here I go anyway.

For me it isn't even about the MT anymore. You feel betrayed? Well, think of it this way: exposure of the truth does not mean that before-hand, the truth did not exist.

(Take a breath - run on sentences ahead)

It wasn't all caring about the players and their opinions and the BEAUTIFUL THING you have created, was it? Sticking to your unconventional MMO-company guns doing so, until suddenly this horrible leak of private documents occurred, warping reality into something that was a reflection of every game that your player-base has, in its majority, rejected.

To find out someone disregards your very humanity and looks at you as a wallet bearing rat that scuttles predictably in a cage measured by a statiticaal curves to come crawling back to the food pellets, when your reputation was devs developing for players... this is a horrible breach of trust.

Worse than a spur of the moment violation of faith, the truth has come out that this depersonalisation and dehumanisation of the very humans that pay to keep the lights on has been a sickness breeding for along time. When SOE did it to me it was fine, I knew the face and name of that beast before I opened my wallet.

When I left it, it was without regret, without this stupid choking feeling in my throat, without a love of what I was leaving behind. Congratulations on harvesting care-bear tears, and using a very literal game exploit to do it.

Cade Windstalker
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:54:00 - [510]

Originally by: Xander Hunt
Originally by: Malka Badi'a

EVE Community. I am disappointed in how little faith you had in a company that some of you have been with for seven years, and how you allowed your groupthink to overpower your ability to use formal logic and deduction regarding what may be opinion and what may be debate. But, you have my undying respect for showing passion, and love, for the game that many of us hold dear.

Its RW corporate propaganda that we're seeing here, not Zulu or Zinfadel (or however you spell his name) that are doing this DIRECTLY. (I admit, I posted that I wanted Zinfadel fired, but only because I hate the kind of job he's in, and how he tries to execute it so well. Its not about him, its about how things have changed in the past 6 months alone) I have little to no faith in *ANY* company (including the one I work for) that has investors, as investors want nothing more than more money. With all seriousness, they'll push the boundries to get monies in, and when it dries up, walk away knowing they made a profit. Its taken a few years for CCP to get to the point where investors are ... instigating and trying to enforce ideas to get more RW monies out of the system, be it due to borrowing for dev'n of Dust or whatever. Monetary-Investors suck the life out of a game (or anything) faster than a shop-vac sucks up water. Investors have passion for money, not passion for the game and its mechanics.

The only investors I have any patience for are the people who invest non-monetary ideals into something, such as passion, wisdom, intelligence, time, ideas, love, hate, interest. Its no wonder Jita and Amarr are on fire as we, the players, are so invested in this game, we don't want to see the mechanics change. We, the players, are investors as well, CCP. Money may make things work, but we're what makes all of this worth while, not money.

I'm sorry but that's a cynical and horribly misdirected view point. If you want to rage about investors then do that, but CCP as a company has proven that they want to make good games and this community keeps kicking them in the nuts and saying that they should stop bending over and look them in the eye. We take the same caution and paranoia that we apply to in-game contracts and agreements and then point it at CCP and whine "you didn't cover minor details x, y, and z...".

By the way, about those investors:

Founders and Employees are the principal share holders meaning that the company is employee owned.

I'd also like to point out that you don't get into game developement for the money. No, really, you don't. You certainly don't get into it for the money and then go work for CCP, you work for EA or Activision at one of their studios that turns out a Madden game or "generic shooter number the next one" every nine to 18 months.

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