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Trillian Stargazer
Maelstrom Crew
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:15:00 - [331]
 

if you read the forums or listen to the eve-radio podcast from funkybacons show you will know what the communities concerns are and this CSM meeting isnt really needed.

just buying more time ccp?

my subs run out next week and they will remain unsubbed until you pull your head out of your asses and address our questions. it shouldnt be to hard to read a question then answer it. stalling for more time isnt helping you or this great community.

- 3 accts.

Ryunosuke Kusanagi
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:15:00 - [332]
 

I believe I told everyone to calm down until official word came out, give it time for everyone to calm down etc.

I want to remind people to stay calm until at least after the CSM's had a chance to meet with the Devs and (hopefully) management.

Don Janitor Otichoda
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:16:00 - [333]
 

Too vague dev blog.
We are still looking for a descent answer before CSM meeting

Personally I do not trust CSM because I have never seen any proof they helped the player community

Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:16:00 - [334]
 

Originally by: Kurfin
Well, it looks like there won't be non-vanity items, probably. I'm not sure if this is a u-turn, or a lack of clear communication in the first place. I suspect it may be the former, but it seems encouraging anyway.


Guys and girls, keep in mind, items isn't the problem.

Items can already be bought indirectly for $$$ via PLEX.

Therefore, items is not the problem.

The problem is stuff that cannot be traded to other players after purchase, such as direct purchase of SP or standing, and which can only be purchased via Aurum.

Anything bought for Aurum that can be traded to other players before being used, will not break the game because it is no different in principle from using IRL $$$ to buy PLEX which converts to ISK which are then used to buy Iwin-stuff like faction ships and high-meta modules.

Phoenix IV
Gallente
The 8th Order
Mean Coalition
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:16:00 - [335]
 

"The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE."

I think it is acceptable. Much better blog than the last one. I'd like to see this mutual agreement in written form, preferably in the EULA.


ps. As a sign of good faith cancel the bans of the last days.

ifollowed through
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:16:00 - [336]
 

Originally by: Ryunosuke Kusanagi
I believe I told everyone to calm down until official word came out, give it time for everyone to calm down etc.

I want to remind people to stay calm until at least after the CSM's had a chance to meet with the Devs and (hopefully) management.


why do CCP need to talk to the CSM to answer a very simple YES or NO QUESTION ?


BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:17:00 - [337]
 

Originally by: gargars
Why on earth do you need to make us wait while you fly the CSM out there. Get on SKYPE - that will save days and days of delay.


NOTHING takes the place of a face to face meeting, I don't care how many companies release fancy teleconferencing software/hardware, it just can't be done. I've tried it with clients designing websites, there's just... nuances that are missed. You can't easily pull everyone into another room to show them what's happening with a product, or show them the code that's being implemented. Not to mention that a face to face conference shows they are willing to spend the money to get our reps out here, I take it as a sign of respect that's been missing these last few days. I'd take the delay for the advantages gained anytime.

Remair
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:17:00 - [338]
 

For my part I'm giving CCP the benefit of the doubt due to years of great service. I am hoping this whole thing is just a stumble (albeit long, drawn out and painful to watch) rather than them falling down completely. Goodluck CSM and CCP, no-one wants to see this game destroyed. Now to hold my breath for a week that "gold ammo" does actually mean "non-vanity items of any kind, standings, SP, skill/ability boosts or headstarts"...

BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:17:00 - [339]
 

Originally by: QwaarJet
One request, Trebor.

This meeting needs to ditch the NDA and the details of it need to be known as soon as it is done. Delaying it any further than it already is would just make things worse.


^^ This.

One other thing, don't let 'The Mitani' try to explain anything to the community. Doing that will be like being in a fleet with DBRB.

Confusing as all hell in the begining....You think you have some sort of clue what's going on in the middle....End up being a total train wreck in the end.

Cadela Fria
Amarr
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:17:00 - [340]
 

I guess I will be the first to say that this have temporarily made me go into "standby" mode instead of "protest" mode.

But one thing is certain, like many others, I want clear unambiguous answers with no room for any sort of alternate interpretation.
I guess I will also be the first to say I think it is entirely unhelpful that we insist on conspiracies about Sony, and what will "really" happen at the CSM meeting.
As the author of "God is not great", Christopher Hitchens, once said: We as a species are a pattern seeking animal, a good thing about us, and we prefer a conspiracy theory to no theory at all, a bad thing about us

Trying to suit the facts to fit the theory instead of trying to fit the theory to the facts, is wrong, and I won't do it.

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:17:00 - [341]
 

To little to late.

Spanking Monkeys
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:17:00 - [342]
 

Make CQ optional by way of a button in the station.

do not force this onto us.

CSM. make sure you get that as this is game breaking for so many of my in game friends, all have many accounts ranging for 5 to around 12

diaufop
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:17:00 - [343]
 

Edited by: diaufop on 26/06/2011 19:18:15
"There are no plans".

I'd just like to take a moment to say this to all eve customers.

"There are no plans". This was exactly what Turbine used to deny LoTRO going f2p+cash shop less than 2 weeks before the official announcement.

"There are no plans" is the single most common weasel-word phrase used to mean "we're doing it, but not ready to go public".

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:18:00 - [344]
 

Well look at the STATISTICS!

Eriam JH
Gallente
Kingfisher Industries
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:18:00 - [345]
 

Anyone remember the "Unbelievable Bulls**t!" light that flashes in the movie, Airplane!

I value and respect that at least CCP no longer thinks we're upset about the price of the MT items. Rolling Eyes Still, the "answer" is a bit vague and non-committal. How about:

"CCP will never sell--nor offer for sale--in-game items or services that will affect gameplay in exchange for virtual currencies, virtual items, virtual services, gametime, real currency or currency equivalencies." Gawd, we should have a lawyer on the CSM!

No quotes, no euphemisms and no double-speak. Put it into CCP's mission statement and have every employee above janitor sign it in blood. That would probably erase most of the distrust.

What you do, not what you say

Fighter26
Orion's Fist
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:18:00 - [346]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
Ill watch what you do not what you say.


Not empty quoting.

admaril bluebeard
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:18:00 - [347]
 

CCP this protest is not just over the nexus store itís about the bugs, about the fact that many multi account players now have to spend thousands of dollars to upgrade their computers to keep playing as multi account players , itís about the fact there is no phone support , itís about the fact that we all are sick of CCP ripping players off by the store with items that are useless , and trust me this protest will keep running until all banned players if they were banned for protesting are returned to this game if they were banned for protesting. and we donít trust the CSM he is one of you after all, many of us did not vote for a ex CCP employee , itís about time you realized without players you have no game .the worldwide press have been informed re this protest ,and it has even made our local news here so the world is aware of it ,and we the players are sick and tired of petitions that take months to get answers even a simple reply telling us the petition has been received, and is being worked on and any meeting should be way of a eve wide cooperate chat with all CEO welcome there of course will have to be a way of letting all speak as many have different issues and if all concerns and if they are not meet then this will continue I am, even willing to re-sub just one account just to stay in protest, we can keep this up for as long as it takes , Iím a union man and will stay till this is fixed, I started eve as eve was not one of these star trek games and when i though walking stations was going to be a good thing u just use cpu and as many games have mastered change, without making their players upgrade computers as i donít just have to upgrade my system i have to upgrade my sonís which wonít be happening, you need to address all issues, and this blog is a joke, if you think thatís what this protest is about ,its just one little part of the protest, its just one issue, the sooner CCP realizes that the better. this is and does have many concerns and as soon as CCP realizes and addresses all the issues the quicker it can be brought to a end, as solving one issue, this will not stop. This is the one time players have united as one, and we will fight till all issues are resolved. And I plead with everyone to list your issues after this so CCP can see what itís really about. Yes even I am upset over the nex store but to me that is just a minor issue the real problem with me is the bugs the cpu usage and the fact that this game needs phone support and it needs that support now not in ten years. it needs it now, this is the only game i have ever played where it does not have a true support system your company has absolutely no idea of Public relations and how to handle consumers and without us you are nothing and you know that if you donít then you have no concept of business if I treated my consumers the way you do I would be broke in a week

signed one very upset playerYARRRR!!Crying or Very sadCrying or Very sadEvil or Very MadCrying or Very sadughYARRRR!!YARRRR!!NeutralNeutral

Dalketh
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:18:00 - [348]
 

WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU WASTING TIME AND MONEY BRINGING THE CSM TO ICELAND?

Talk on Skype or whatever and have it done in a day - not a week or more.

MORE DELAYING.....

Oh and your line "we urge you to contact the CSM with your comments and concerns so that they may be addressed at this session" is hugely insulting. There are hundreds of pages of us telling you our concerns!!!

Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:18:00 - [349]
 

Edited by: Esrevid Nekkeg on 26/06/2011 19:30:47
Everybody gets emotional now and then. So, apology accepted.
At least you seem willingly to start an actual, and hopefully open, discussion with the player representatives and therefore with the players by proxy. That's good.
I will patiently wait for the outcome of that discussion.

You just should have done it sooner.

Sophie Rider
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:18:00 - [350]
 

Originally by: Remair
For my part I'm giving CCP the benefit of the doubt due to years of great service. I am hoping this whole thing is just a stumble (albeit long, drawn out and painful to watch) rather than them falling down completely. Goodluck CSM and CCP, no-one wants to see this game destroyed. Now to hold my breath for a week that "gold ammo" does actually mean "non-vanity items of any kind, standings, SP, skill/ability boosts or headstarts"...


We appear to be still awaiting CCP Zulu's definition of "gold ammo".

helmut cheddar
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:18:00 - [351]
 

Originally by: Javelin6
Originally by: CCP Zulu
...give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.


Thank You Zulu for that part. That's all I wanted to hear.





you mug, he said nothing about faction standings, ships, UI functionalities etc etc... just dismissed a very silly made up example from 1 of many rage threads.

how dumb are you ?

Radix Salvilines
legion industries ltd
AAA Citizens
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:19:00 - [352]
 

Edited by: Radix Salvilines on 26/06/2011 19:19:51

ThE MaStEr PlAn:

STEP ONE - you tell us to wait a few more days to get the answers...
that step is to make all things calm down and to show that youre willing to cooperate.

Poeople wont be protesting for a week - they will get bored with it by tomorrow (not including the forums of course).

STEP TWO - you stall the CSM then eventually make conclusion that "there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum". Why would you need CSM for that anyways by the way? answer -
that step is to rebuild the feeling that CCP cares about its playerbase

STEP THREE - you deploy "gold ammo" anyway when its all ready (not just in parts as it was scheduled to be right now).
ahahaha this step is because old playerbase can go f*** themselves. There are others coming - less demanding players that will fill the emptiness and grow.


CCP we will look at what you do and less of what you say.


Make an Incarna button and roll back noble store. AT THE MOMENT YOUR WORDS MEAN NOTHING!!!

Xak Kion
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:19:00 - [353]
 

I have to agree other the other members of the community is saying, we will be watching the actions taken, not what is said. I haven't been a member of the community as long some others, but honestly, I would have to say keep things the way they are and maybe improve a few things.
EVE is one of the better running games today IMO, so why change it in a way that the community doesn't agree with and is more than willing to go else where because of it?
I've seen how just the information was taken and how it upset the community over the past week, keep having issues with communication and/or not involving the communities opinion in the changes of the game, I'm sure that EVE will come crashing down just as others have.

Khar Toba0182
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:19:00 - [354]
 

Consider me calmed, I dunno if this post will ever be read but I want to thank the CSM and CCP Zulu for representing our community, I will reserve judgement until I see the actual results from the Iceland meeting but yeah, you guys are awesome.

Also f*kin kudos to the community in general for standing up for itself. we're AWESOME! Twisted Evil

justme6
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:19:00 - [355]
 

Why this BS, you will not listen to what the CSM says anyway, you will NDA the whole meeting and roll out the changes you want and act like you're doing us all a favor. Why not just skype their marching orders to them and let us know if we do not count in this game: TODAY.

Bklyn 1
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:19:00 - [356]
 

tl, dr: Let's buy time and hope things cool off.

[Damn, monocle profits have to go towards plane tickets]

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:19:00 - [357]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 26/06/2011 19:20:55
Originally by: Vapidity
To quote the blog:
'there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.'

I notice that you place "gold ammo" in quotes.

"gold ammo" is a WoT reference ffs...

the exact scope of that term is unclear but the parentheses should give you a clue that it is not to be understood literally...

here are some usage examples for you (from Mittani's last GSF CEO Update)
Quote:
The real controversy, of course, is not the silliness of a $70 monocle, though that does seem to indicate the venality and greed of the CCP higher-ups to many players. The controversy is the shadow lurking behind the monocle, hinted at in the Greed is Good newsletter: gold in the sandbox, a "pay to win" gold-ammo situation in EVE. Pay to Win is common enough in Free to Play MMOs, and quite profitable, but the fear among players is that CCP is trying to meld both subscription and FtP revenue models into an especially ****ty, expensive product.

[...]

Meanwhile, Jita, Amarr and other hubs have been brought to virtual shutdown by 'protests' of pubbies shooting statues and overloading the nodes while howling for CCP's blood, mad about the NeX, the Captains Quarters, Incarna sucking, the spectre of gold ammo, or just setting things on fire for the sheer primal joy of watching everything burn.

[...]

I and the rest of the CSM have been extremely blunt in our demands that CCP issue a formal disavowal of 'gold ammo', non-vanity microtransactions, or otherwise bleeding gold into the sandbox of EVE. My impression is that a quick "Look, the monocles are expensive, but we're not doing gold ammo" would have ended this crisis days ago and CCP wouldn't be down at least 2500 accounts. The fact that CCP has remained silent on the issue is increasingly being taken to imply what everyone fears - that a company which would without irony charge $70 for a space monocle will issue $250 i-win lasers.

A few years ago, we saw the impact that 'oligarchs' had on the nullsec metagame, when Red Overlord had SerLordex spend a hundred thousand dollars on Eve Online, A Bad Game. The kind of economic distortion that would come from a legalized and pervasive 'gold ammo' style of gameplay would mean that, in order to stay competitive, every PvP entity would be obliged to acquire and use gameplay-enhancing gold items or suffer for their austerity. Perhaps some of you think that 'Pay to Win' is acceptable in a competitive subscription MMO; I do not.



Goatse Girl
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:20:00 - [358]
 

CCP Zulu, I want to able to purchase skill points from the aur store, please look into this if you haven't already

Malka Badi'a
Suffoco Noctis
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:20:00 - [359]
 

Originally by: Sophie Rider
We appear to be still awaiting CCP Zulu's definition of "gold ammo".
We are not waiting. It has already been answered, explained, and elaborated.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1540116&page=9#252

The CSMs and the developers are on the same page, since the term "gold ammo" has the origin from World of Tanks. As that link states, it means any tangible improvement, from ships to ammo.

Evlyna
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:20:00 - [360]
 

Edited by: Evlyna on 26/06/2011 19:21:59
It's slim... Too vague. Even though it's a bit reassuring, "Gold ammo" does not equal "non-vanity items" clearly enough. At least not for everybody.

Why would you need to wait after the CSM to make that clarification is beyond me.



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