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Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 - [301]
 

Originally by: Vim
And so this hopefully ends.

That so much rabble started over an internal document titled 'Gordon Gekko Edition' that clearly have one guy acting the part of Mr Gordon.


Correct, but why is it at all difficult for CCP to repeat their solemn promise never to implement non-vanity Aurum-only purchases?

It is not at all difficult for me to solemnly promise never to commit ****, e.g. As a moral individual I am keenly and profoundly aware of the intrinsic and inarguable wrongness of ****, and therefore it is completely effortless for me to make such a vow.

If CCP is a moral corporation with keen awareness of the profound intrinsic and inarguable wrongness of implementing Aurum-only non-vanity purchases, then it should be equally effortless for them to repeat their promise never to do so.

Yet they haven't. This June 26th dev blog, by CCP Zulu, was the perfect opportunity for CCP to reassure us in terms that are strongly and unambiguously worded.

But they didn't take that opportunity.

That is thought-provoking!

shoot me
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 - [302]
 

Vaugue Blog. Ruling out gold ammo only lol

Stalling for another week to let all the rage on the forums burn out some more.

Meeting with CSM under NDA no doubt. A month or so later the minutes will be approved and published again with a lot of empty words and vaugue promises.

Release new forum and lock the old one.

Problem sucsessfully swept under the carpet!

Jearicko
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 - [303]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 26/06/2011 18:43:16
That is a step forward.

I hope that nothing in the NeX store ever will be compared to $1000 jeans again, oh and give us a third ship state. Flying, docked and disembarked.


+1
Or, plus as many as I can add.... because this is exactly right. I've thought about it a lot, discussed it with corp mates, and this is a simple statement of the only reasonable or sensible solution. Fits gameplay AND story AND future game expansion better, and keeps everyone happy(ish).

Cyber Duck
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 - [304]
 

Quote:
This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all


The only meaning of a piece of text is the text itself...

Learn how to do literary criticism properly.

Kithrus
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 - [305]
 

Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Originally by: Kith Kanann
The CSM...

Seriously?

What a waste of time.


Do you have a better way for them to communicate with the player base?

I know of no better way for them to reach out to the community and find out our real concerns, besides looking at the debates we have on these forums (which I imagine they do based on their discussions with the CSM).

Regardless of your political affiliations in EVE regarding the delegates and where they are from, there has been only evidence to support that the past CSM councils have had the best interests of the EVE player base at heart. While CCP may not have a track record for spearheading development based on their meetings, there has been victories and hopefully will be many more.


Has anyone heard the story of the merchant, the boy and the donkey?

Boy rides on the donkey, people comment that the boy is making his father walk.
Merchant rides on the donkey, people comment the father is making the boy walk.
Both ride the donkey, people comment how crule over loading the donkey is.
The merchant and the boty carry the donkey and everyone just laughs that they look silly.

Rolling Eyes

Oi! Wake up EvE community! Let them work out the issues okay and keep it constructive and no everyone is not going to be happy at the end of the day but CCP is working out a way.

Raz Xym
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 - [306]
 

Edited by: Raz Xym on 26/06/2011 19:13:00
So,

CCP feels wronged by their customers. But to buy us time, please direct all your pent up rage at how utterly useless we are to the CSM. We have proven time and time again we think the CSM are pawns to be played with but never listened to, but this time, really, we will listen to them, honest. Just stop pointing out what fools we are on the forums, please.


Really I like my customers, as long as they shut up and buy PLEX.

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 - [307]
 

Originally by: Metungaawten Liqouragain
As tempers have been flared on both sides it seems, perhaps as a measure of goodwill on your part, perhaps you would consider unbanning any accounts suspended/banned due to 'inflamed tone', and instead issue a warning.



No, bans are bans and should not be rescinded. Those who were banned deserved it...personal attacks on ANYONE should NEVER be allowed on these forums.

Saving Face
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:11:00 - [308]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I can tell you without fear of contradiction that "Gold ammo" is shorthand for "any non-vanity item".



In that case, he lied again because we know there have been plans for non-vanity purchases.

Roh Voleto
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:11:00 - [309]
 

How the hell can there be any positive reactions in this thread?

Don't you realise that this is just a slightly reworded version of his first blog? He just insulted us a bit more and refused to address, or even acknowledged, any of our issues.

Silas Cooper
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:11:00 - [310]
 

I'm not entirely happy with the "no gold ammo for aurum" wording, for obvious reasons. Thing is that the fact they want to talk in person with the CSM means that they DO have plans for non-vanity items. Otherwise thr wording would probably have been more satisfactory and the CSM meeting wouldn't have been a necessity.

I'll agree to a cease fire for now till the CSM had a chance to do their thing, I'm quite sure the CSM will represent me just fine in this without needing any input from my side, having listened to their reactions on EVE-radio and afterwards.

CCP better not be trying to sneaky and/or use wording tricks with this. Trust is already at an all time low.

formtief
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:11:00 - [311]
 

oh hell does the monocle income cover the expenses of the flight tickets?
would be so roflomg if not

Dibble Dabble
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:11:00 - [312]
 

Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Originally by: Kith Kanann
The CSM...

Seriously?

What a waste of time.


Do you have a better way for them to communicate with the player base?

I know of no better way for them to reach out to the community and find out our real concerns, besides looking at the debates we have on these forums (which I imagine they do based on their discussions with the CSM).

Regardless of your political affiliations in EVE regarding the delegates and where they are from, there has been only evidence to support that the past CSM councils have had the best interests of the EVE player base at heart. While CCP may not have a track record for spearheading development based on their meetings, there has been victories and hopefully will be many more.


The CSM is just another vanity item, elected by block votes and their lemmings. I expect CCP to design the game and not some ******s who rake in $$$$ by bot manged alliances and their RMT operations to have any influence. They are scared of MT as it will impact their RMT and ISK printing machines.

So you can go on your jolly and i hope CCP stuff MT right up your arse holes and if you dont like it you can **** off.


Planetary Genocide
Gallente
White Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:11:00 - [313]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
Ill watch what you do not what you say.

Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:12:00 - [314]
 

Finally. This is the sort of thing you needed to say 5 days ago, to head off all this butthurt before it happened.

CCP has always been poor at communication. That still needs to change.

Portmanteau
Gallente
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:12:00 - [315]
 

Jesus, what a load of bull****. Specifically no "gold ammo" ... nice that you picked a more ridiculous example to dismiss... no mention of MTs as a whole. in short you still are avoiding answering one simple ****ing question... why ?

the CSM being called to iceland is stalling for time

Corvin Clarke
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:12:00 - [316]
 

First of all:

CLEARNESS PLEASE

Seriosuly, do you realize how being vague makes it worst?

Second: Given that you haven't listened to the CSM concerning this situation on anything so far, do you really need them to fly all the way to Iceland to start taking decisions????!!

Sounds to me like a waste of time.

RensPriceChecker2
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:12:00 - [317]
 

Edited by: RensPriceChecker2 on 26/06/2011 19:12:47

So, question:



How soon after the meeting will we get to read the minutes of that meeting. Will CCP break the tradition of keeping the minutes for review for weeks and send them back and forth for editing this out and are you willing to make a comittment this time that we will be able to read the unedited full minutes of the meeting as soon as the csm is able to publish them?

Katrina Cortez
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:12:00 - [318]
 

Edited by: Katrina Cortez on 26/06/2011 19:23:03
CCP, what you say no longer matters... we will judge by your actions. The trust and respect has been broken.
Trinkets and peace offerings of 10% arent going to smooth this over. Releasing more of Incarna is not going to help either since it doesnt address the multiple client performance issues. I can be the most beautiful CQ/station in the world...but if it runs like crap then it still is crap.

Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:12:00 - [319]
 

Talking to the players and CSM, sounds like something you might have frelling done before jamming it down our throats CCP. That's not just about the CQ terribad performance and MT PR disaster, it's about the weeks before too. You were upset about the breach in trust at CCP, Zulu? My god man, you should be happy, now you have a slim chance to salvage this trainwreck that is bound to happen.
Obviously this is nothing new and quite frankly the fact that it is considered internal and private and you are upset this has come out (like now, before even considering your customers' feelings about the matter) is telling and sad.

It's nice to know you're sorry Zulu, if only about your personal feelings. I'm not sorry about how I reacted and my feelings on the matter, I'm sorry CCP isn't sorry about the way it has been treating us.
Quote:
However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.

Actually most of us pretty much understood that. What we did not understand was that in 200 pages of 'Will MT in eve go beyond vanity items, yes or no' there was not a single word uttered by anyone in CCP on this. No 'NO', no 'Yes, it is the future', no 'Maybe, guys the future isn't set in stone. We don't plan on doing anything other than vanity items for now' and no 'We will answer this and other questions on xx-xx-xxxx'. Because basically CCP's silence could only mean non-vanity items and/or services are already planned.
Take your answer here, the specific use of the term "gold ammo". By specifically mentioning one, but only one, field of the non-vanity spectrum, I am left to infer that ships, modules, standings, implants, remaps, reskills, skillpoint(booster)s or any number of other things might actually be planned. I do not know.

It would certainly make sense to me, seeing the events of the past few weeks.


Many things are left unmentioned and unsaid. You ask for patience and time, yet CCP GMs ban players that may have said things possibly frustrated, like you
Quote:
However I let my frustration take charge of me, fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we [..] have been experiencing over the past few days.

CCP has an issue with a breach of trust, making you frustrated and lash out a bit in frustration at the players. CCP breached the trust between them and the players (again) and we get frustrated and lash out a bit in frustration at CCP. I know you see what I did there.


Talk to the CSM, if you can convince all of them, there might be hope for eve 1.0. We'll be watching what you do and say, for now my accounts will not be resubbed, I've given you over 7 years of patience and trust, these last weeks have turned me from a teacher and introducer of eve, to a bitter vet.


Worzel Bummage
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:12:00 - [320]
 

The blog is reasonable.

BUT...

There's still no mention of the performance with CQ, and how unsuitable the door is as an alternative. This stuff doesn't need to wait for CSM input, please respond tomorrow (after consulting devs).

Vapidity
Amarr
My Monkeys 2 round banannas
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:13:00 - [321]
 

To quote the blog:
'there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.'

I notice that you place "gold ammo" in quotes.
So, we can expect for sure not to see gold EMP charges?
Or gold thunderbolt missiles?
Or any other charge that is virtual gold?

So, what about scorpions?
Or.... any other ship?
Special ships for $500?

I love how you guys choose your words carefully so that later on when you introduce the 'titan of doom' for $2,000 you can point back and say: we never said we were not introducing titans of doom for cash, we said "gold ammo"

I don't believe a word out of you guys so therefore I am not resubbing anything.
Then you have the audacity to talk about how 'your' trust was violated.

Meh.

Rokoz
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:13:00 - [322]
 

Edited by: Rokoz on 26/06/2011 19:14:55
I think it's great that we have some dialog going again. With all the attention being placed on items in the store I hope the other big concern has not been forgoten.
Will it be possible to have the old staion hanger back with a button to leave your pod?
The new system is clumsy, iritating and unusable by a large portion of the player base.
Apart from the fact it goes against EvEs back story of pod pilots, making for non-emersive game play.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:14:00 - [323]
 

Sorry I don't see why it will take longer to explain yourselves and you(CCP) have some 'splaining to do. The CSM has always been at your call when/if you needed them. Of late I am sure more than a few (I'd wager all of them) have been available to you to help you translate whatever corporate'ese you speak into words that convey what you mean to us.

In the end we have no choice but to wait for your response having waited so long already.

Trinneth
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:14:00 - [324]
 

"I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship.

It is in this spirit that I will now say something incredibly shifty and legalistic with regards to "gold ammo".

Raku Otsada
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:14:00 - [325]
 

This provides a glimmer of hope. Just don't bully the CSM.

Jehvan Sunburnadire
The Forgotten Legion
Redrum Fleet
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:14:00 - [326]
 

Since other threads related to this are being closed and redirected here, can CCP agree to either livestream or upload unedited video of the CSM meeting in its entirety that will take place this week? This is the time for maximum transparency, and this would go a long way to closing the current grand canyon that separates CCP from its customers.

Javelin6
Dirt Nap Squad
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:14:00 - [327]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu
...give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum.


Thank You Zulu for that part. That's all I wanted to hear.



Sophie Rider
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:14:00 - [328]
 

Originally by: Leon Razor

Would be nice to know if "gold ammo" is being used as a fun way to refer to non-vanity items, or just "gold ammo" in particular. While I appreciate the attempt at humor, now is not really the time for imprecise language.


It would be good to get a confirming message one way or another from CCP Zulu on this. I am sure that he is watching all of the posts and if he chooses not to clearly define what he meant by "gold ammo", I guess that would speak volumes.

Auric Aurumfinger
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:14:00 - [329]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
Ill watch what you do not what you say.


+1

Grep Oskold
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:15:00 - [330]
 

Since my other post is in the nirvana:

Playing for time...that's it and nothing more. Transferring the heat to the CSM by venting the outrage there.

And the question is still there, will there be non vanity items in the NEX Store?

A joke and I am punched in the face again as is the whole community.


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