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Zesty A
Posted - 2011.06.25 22:27:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Zesty A on 10/07/2011 04:10:32
Hey im almost fully certain that a lot of people have suggested this, but if not awesome. Personally i think that all people on the servers should be able to have every skill at level 5. As that would, well... help because then not only can u test what you can fly on the singularity but you can fly and help test everything! Consider it. :D

Pros:
-Everyone test everything
-no testing constrictions
-more errors/glitches to be found

Cons:
-non that i can think of

Ctan Overlord
Posted - 2011.06.25 22:45:00 - [2]
 

The main problem with this is that people would then just use the best ships they can find and some ships would not be tested, also you would not in reality be fighting against people with maxed skills in tq so it makes no sense to give people them.

Besides if you want better ships or skills just partake in a mass test or two, they give you 2mil sp for attending one

Thresh Avery
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:37:00 - [3]
 

Cons:
- 1000+ people on the test server flying titans and supercarriers because they never could before
- masstests become capital-only affairs as everyone can fly everything and therefore wouldn't get in a sub-cap
- not very similar to TQ
- wouldn't help you test out realistic fittings for combat on TQ as your skills wouldn't be the same
- there aren't enough good reasons to convince CCP to do so

Sorry to sound like i'm completely against the idea, i'm not at all, but i don't think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. I just thought you ought to be aware of the cons.

TomParad0x
Caldari
RogueNET
Posted - 2011.06.26 01:35:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: TomParad0x on 26/06/2011 01:35:21
I barked up this particular tree a long time ago, for quite a while. They never budged on it claiming they wanted the environment to be about the same (as close to) as TQ.

I'm still for it, though.

However, no, people would not be flying titans... You can't even buy a titan, you have to make it. You think those impatient people will setup shop to make a titan or a super carrier? lol.

IMO people who wanted to actually test for bugs could do so, and those who just want to test setups will be a bit turned off by the fact that their stats would be max and not like TQ thus putting their results off.

Though, there would be those who play, I won't argue against that. As for 1k? Probably at first, but would die off as it got used to. I have been on other games where you could easily get everything on the test server and no one played it more than the other. Quite a lot less people played on it, actually.

Artassaut
Minmatar
Shadow Striders
Property Management Solutions
Posted - 2011.06.26 02:59:00 - [5]
 

Would you want a game-breaking skill training bug to leak through to TQ because no-one could test skill training?

CCP Konflikt

Posted - 2011.06.26 10:22:00 - [6]
 

A long time ago we did this for an armageddon day, it was just a single day where we dropped the rules and went nuts. That went well.

A little closer to the future we tried this for a longer period of time. The results of that were that players who had never read the server rules joined Singularity and Singularity became uncontrollable.

The scenarios being played out, such as everyone in a titan or mothership, were not accurate for generic testing, players were not doing anything similar to what they can do on TQ. This is quite contrary to today on SiSi where everyone can only fly what they are skilled pointed for, meaning there is at minimum a greater test coverage of ship use, by limitation.

Even when supercapitals have accidentally been placed on the market we see a strong increase in the use of them.

The lessons learned in the past, make this happening again very unlikely, for the above reasons.

Holly Cleland
Special Operations Foxhound
Posted - 2011.06.26 11:29:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: CCP Konflikt
A long time ago we did this for an armageddon day, it was just a single day where we dropped the rules and went nuts. That went well.

A little closer to the future we tried this for a longer period of time. The results of that were that players who had never read the server rules joined Singularity and Singularity became uncontrollable.

The scenarios being played out, such as everyone in a titan or mothership, were not accurate for generic testing, players were not doing anything similar to what they can do on TQ. This is quite contrary to today on SiSi where everyone can only fly what they are skilled pointed for, meaning there is at minimum a greater test coverage of ship use, by limitation.

Even when supercapitals have accidentally been placed on the market we see a strong increase in the use of them.

The lessons learned in the past, make this happening again very unlikely, for the above reasons.


On the subject of rules, they seem to have gone out the window, I remember a long time ago when I used to go onto Singularity there would be devs there to provide a strong enforcement of the rules, now I see super capitals sitting in FFAs for cruisers and BC, I don't know exactly what rules have changed, but it makes testing any ships (for myself personally) a complete waste of time.

I also agree with the limitation set on SP, it's a stupid idea to allow people to use whatever they want unhindered by skills, because they'll only use the high end ships that 95% of players will never own or fly.

I seem to have an old memory of volunteers helping to moderate the Test Server, but I could be mistaken.

Raphael Scoria
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.26 12:58:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: CCP Konflikt

The scenarios being played out, such as everyone in a titan or mothership, were not accurate for generic testing, players were not doing anything similar to what they can do on TQ.



It is revealing that you think that hundreds of people, all in supercarriers and titans, isn't a perfect representation of Tranquility 0.0 warfare these days.

TomParad0x
Caldari
RogueNET
Posted - 2011.06.26 15:42:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: CCP Konflikt
A long time ago we did this for an armageddon day, it was just a single day where we dropped the rules and went nuts. That went well.

A little closer to the future we tried this for a longer period of time. The results of that were that players who had never read the server rules joined Singularity and Singularity became uncontrollable.

The scenarios being played out, such as everyone in a titan or mothership, were not accurate for generic testing, players were not doing anything similar to what they can do on TQ. This is quite contrary to today on SiSi where everyone can only fly what they are skilled pointed for, meaning there is at minimum a greater test coverage of ship use, by limitation.

Even when supercapitals have accidentally been placed on the market we see a strong increase in the use of them.

The lessons learned in the past, make this happening again very unlikely, for the above reasons.


Honestly I would hardly say those two events justify saying it would always be like that.

Of course, I'm not saying it wont. But the only way to tell is an extended test (More than a few days, at least. A test that appears as though it's not going away any time soon) with more involvement from the devs implementing rules to control the server.

Just saying one, very short and hectic event does not say what it will always be like.

As for the super caps, well yeah. Of course people are going to use the heck out of them when some one accidentally sticks them on the market. That's what people do, lol. "Oh no, we accidentally gave you all a huge advantage" (everyone spams to use that advantage while they can). I don't think people should be given access to super caps anyway.

Personally, we don't *need* all skills to 5. What would be cool is a way to increase the amount of SP you can generate per hour, without actually causing a risk of breaking the testing process. I used to suggest (And this was way before those two events, btw) implants that would speed it up some, but not knowing the database structure, how the code handles implants, and how the update process goes from SiSi -> TQ (or if it's just internal server -> SiSi, internal server with fixed stuff -> TQ, etc) it can't really be said how safe it is to do that.

Craig Linford
Gallente
Universal Freelance
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:08:00 - [10]
 

Can we not have an 'Armageddon Day' again?

May be once a year?

Pete15
Posted - 2011.06.27 15:27:00 - [11]
 

Ok then how about 1 day every month (excluding Mass Test days) players can choose a day within that month that they get all lv5 skills. Maybe have a restriction of how many players can activate on each day. There's alot of ships that I'd love to test before actually going out and training for them and because I'm still a noob they're all sub cap. I'm sure there's people like me out there who just wanna try something to see if they think it's worth training over something else. Like in my position, I have Gallente Cruiser lv5 and 3 days on Gallente Battleship lv5. I'd love to just test each T2 Cruiser and maybe even a Proteus before actually committing to training. Same for Battleships. Then there's cross training, I'm currently wanting to cross train Minmatar first but would like to test all of the cross trained faction ships out before I actually commit to training.

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:06:00 - [12]
 

Only compromise I can ever see CCP doing: Give people 25mill or so "Refunded" SP to put into things. Maybe have it scale, i.e

Players with with 5-9mill get 25mill. Players with 10-14mill get 20mill, players with 15-19mill get 15mill, 20-24mill get 10mill, and anything above 25mill only gets 5mill.

Just an example, but giving people some "Buffer" to level out the uneveness that a mirror usually leaves them with would be a good balance to the whole ordeal.

Star Crafter
Posted - 2011.06.27 23:11:00 - [13]
 

CCP should hopefully have enough common sense never to do this again.

How to gain SP quickly:

1.Go to the Mass Tests
2.Plug in +5s
3.Remap
4.???
5.Moar SP for you

Ebba Li
Posted - 2011.06.28 16:38:00 - [14]
 

And if you dont have any remaps left???

D34dC0W
Posted - 2011.06.28 17:23:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Ebba Li
And if you dont have any remaps left???


Originally by: Star Crafter
CCP should hopefully have enough common sense never to do this again.

How to gain SP quickly:

1.Go to the Mass Tests
2.Plug in +5s
3.Remap
4.???
5.Moar SP for you

CCP Konflikt

Posted - 2011.06.30 11:00:00 - [16]
 

Singularity is our best testing resource, it's the closest simulation we have against Tranquility and so internally there is a lot of demand to get features on it for some battle testing. I don't think there's ever going a time where QA testers would see a gap in our calendars to stop testing work on SiSi, which is a pre-requisite for allowing complete anarchy on the test server.

Testing is like a science experiment, you need to control the variables. Having someone show up and blow you out of the sky in a Titan, is not part of very many tests.

Lastly, preparing for an Armageddon day takes a lot of people's and machine time and resources. All this should be used to improving the quality of eve instead of the quality of Sisi fun.

Craig Linford
Gallente
Universal Freelance
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:57:00 - [17]
 

But would be a great Christmas pressy from CCP Wink

Stupple
Posted - 2011.07.01 14:55:00 - [18]
 

i be to 4 mass testing and not got any sp for them so i dont bother going to them now and just play about test thinks like ships and so tracksion so i can come better at think in tq cheaper mass test this fun but it some time long and u have to w8 for other people and so on

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.07.01 20:03:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 01/07/2011 20:04:00
Originally by: CCP Konflikt
A long time ago we did this for an armageddon day, it was just a single day where we dropped the rules and went nuts. That went well.

A little closer to the future we tried this for a longer period of time. The results of that were that players who had never read the server rules joined Singularity and Singularity became uncontrollable.

The scenarios being played out, such as everyone in a titan or mothership, were not accurate for generic testing, players were not doing anything similar to what they can do on TQ. This is quite contrary to today on SiSi where everyone can only fly what they are skilled pointed for, meaning there is at minimum a greater test coverage of ship use, by limitation.

Even when supercapitals have accidentally been placed on the market we see a strong increase in the use of them.

The lessons learned in the past, make this happening again very unlikely, for the above reasons.




Perfect skills are not necessary.


Most people would just like to test a HAC from another race for instance. All you need is all racial cruisers to Lv 5 and whatever other "support skills" at the proper level. This would actually benefit people who log onto sisi.



Also... since CCP is apparently reading this thread atm.


Supercapitals at every beacon is tiresome to everyone who is not in them, or not interested in griefing other human beings. Cyno jam the "test" system so only what is on the market can enter. Let them test their supers next door. No one is ever in the capital beacon anyway.

Aglais
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.01 21:11:00 - [20]
 

Pros:
-All ship related content can be tested.
-All weapon related content can be tested.
-This may bring in a larger population for testing purposes.

Cons:
-Nobody will fly subcaps.
-Any combat in the test system will be capitals and supercapitals puking on eachother.
-The volume of people who want to fly capitals might choke the test server.
-Bugs related to skill learning will be overlooked. This could be cataclysmic.
-If someone DOES fly a subcapital ship, T1 ships are going to be overlooked entirely by the testing base, and any buffs that go to them will be entirely ignored as they're too busy in the ships' T2 variants.
-I personally don't want to ever go into the test system and see capital wrecks on every celestial.

Star Crafter
Posted - 2011.07.01 22:36:00 - [21]
 

Quote:
Supercapitals at every beacon is tiresome to everyone who is not in them, or not interested in griefing other human beings. Cyno jam the "test" system so only what is on the market can enter. Let them test their supers next door. No one is ever in the capital beacon anyway.



Working as intended

Era'kanath
Amarr
Posted - 2011.07.01 23:41:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: CCP Konflikt
Singularity is our best testing resource, it's the closest simulation we have against Tranquility and so internally there is a lot of demand to get features on it for some battle testing. I don't think there's ever going a time where QA testers would see a gap in our calendars to stop testing work on SiSi, which is a pre-requisite for allowing complete anarchy on the test server.

Testing is like a science experiment, you need to control the variables. Having someone show up and blow you out of the sky in a Titan, is not part of very many tests.

Lastly, preparing for an Armageddon day takes a lot of people's and machine time and resources. All this should be used to improving the quality of eve instead of the quality of Sisi fun.


This is asking to have all Skills to level V, not seed Supercapital ships ugh
Originally by: CCP Konflikt
Testing is like a science experiment, you need to control the variables. Having someone show up and blow you out of the sky in a Titan, is not part of very many tests.


I mean, TRIXI is already doing that.
Show us some love Sad

Comodore John
Gallente
Trixi IFI
Posted - 2011.07.02 01:27:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Era'kanath

I mean, TRIXI is already doing that.
Show us some love Sad


Trixi bug reports a lot of stuff, and we aren't always in titans, just a few of us

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.07.02 14:23:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Star Crafter
Quote:
Supercapitals at every beacon is tiresome to everyone who is not in them, or not interested in griefing other human beings. Cyno jam the "test" system so only what is on the market can enter. Let them test their supers next door. No one is ever in the capital beacon anyway.



Working as intended


Always remember... the bigger the ship the stupider the pilot Wink


Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2011.07.04 08:32:00 - [25]
 

Never underestimate the power of a once yearly armageddon day to let your most loyal blow off some steam.

Chris baileyy
Posted - 2011.07.04 12:34:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Comodore John
Originally by: Era'kanath

I mean, TRIXI is already doing that.
Show us some love Sad


Trixi bug reports a lot of stuff, and we aren't always in titans, just a few of us

Hi Comodore,
How are you doing? Long time no speak..

NEO Informant
New Information Trading Corp
Posted - 2011.07.04 22:20:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: NEO Informant on 04/07/2011 22:25:59
Wall-O-Text

In reference to EvE - Bigger doesn't mean better (get your heads out of the gutter), hate to bust your bubbles. No sense in maxing SP's either. Yeh if it happens everyone will play with stuff they haven't been able to before. But honestly, that wouldn't last long anyways. Eventually ppl get bored, and that would be one thing you would not want, lets not bring boredom to eve. Im bored with fly'n all the boats I can fly already, I rather not burn myself out with a boat on the test server that I'd one day like to have on TQ. Lets put it like this, ever cheat on a game where you would have everything? How much replay value is left in those games now? Im not say'n that having max SP's is cheating, but it takes away from the entertainment value of the game. It sucks to want something and not be able to have it, but it you work yourself into that direction (maybe with the help of others) you'll have what you want with a sense of accomplishment.

Edited note
Though "Armageddon Day" is a fun event, even though not many ppl are getting on for the testing. It's just fun to see all the new sig's, the crazy ppl with their wild rants about "Armageddon Day" and the Dev's toy'n with players with use of the "God" button :)That would be nice to see once a year.

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.07.05 09:40:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: NEO Informant
Edited by: NEO Informant on 04/07/2011 22:25:59
...and the Dev's toy'n with players with use of the "God" button :)


Now that would be fun! I'd love to see Habakuk pop some a-hole's Avatar with his god-ray. Can you imagine the tears, rage, and applause?

Perhaps a devs vs players tourney can be arranged.

Since all level 5s seems out of the question, perhaps some way to reallocate SP?

Star Crafter
Posted - 2011.07.05 17:08:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Soldarius
Originally by: NEO Informant
Edited by: NEO Informant on 04/07/2011 22:25:59
...and the Dev's toy'n with players with use of the "God" button :)


Now that would be fun! I'd love to see Habakuk pop some a-hole's Avatar with his god-ray. Can you imagine the tears, rage, and applause?

Perhaps a devs vs players tourney can be arranged.

Since all level 5s seems out of the question, perhaps some way to reallocate SP?



Originally by: Star Crafter
CCP should hopefully have enough common sense never to do this again.

How to gain SP quickly:

1.Go to the Mass Tests
2.Plug in +5s
3.Remap
4.???
5.Moar SP for you

theteck
Posted - 2011.07.10 00:06:00 - [30]
 

ok do it on another server then ... i remember the first time when i do it and its very fun to test so many ship for leveling futur skill :)


but i understand it, resource and machine time but its very very fun!





Lastly, preparing for an Armageddon day takes a lot of people's and machine time and resources. All this should be used to improving the quality of eve instead of the quality of Sisi fun.


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