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Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.06.29 13:25:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Mabah Vin
Originally by: McRoll
Edited by: McRoll on 29/06/2011 12:07:41
The best thing is, you can do everything with limited SP as well.

If you cant figure out what to do with your time, or how to play the game with less than 30 mil SP, youre too stupid for this game, plain and simply.




Well, that's simply not true.

For example, if someone wishes to mine, there is a 'time' factor.
Depending on the mining barge, we're talking a month?..


I like how you pretend that you must have a mining barge to mine.

Quote:
If I want to compete in PVP (And I'm not talking a T1 frigate as blaster bait), there is a 'time' factor for weapons, shields etc.

To a player with limited personal time, he/she wants to 'play', not 'wait'.


That you can't participate in PvP the way you want to doesn't mean you can't participate.

Quote:
The question is, why should someone who wishes to compete in PVP for example, use EVE, when they can PVP with equal weapons and using their own skill in another game, and do it now..


You basically just asked why someone should play an MMORGP instead of an FPS. That's what the genre is - persistent games with a system of progression.





Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.06.29 13:37:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 29/06/2011 13:54:31
Originally by: McRoll
Again, if you dont want time and the resulting higher numbers to matter, tell me how you'd like Eve to be. Keep in mind that most MMO's are nothing more than numbers which become bigger with time, be it your charakter's level, more damage on your new gear or a bigger ship with bigger guns.

You basically want a game where player skill matters and the gear you spend time gathering and the knowledge you accumulate over time means little to nothing, is that right?

If so, there are TONS of games out there which work exactly that way. Eve wouldnt work without the time factor, because it would be just players flying the same 5 optimal ships with the same optimal skills and the same optimal fittings. No diversity whatsoever and the room for "player skill" is extremely limited, as the controls and the interaction with your ship are extremely limited as well. You can do manual piloting by clicking in space, manage your cap, keep your range and watch for overheat temperatures but not much more.

So again, tell me how just "more SP" for all players would make Eve better and help you?

Why would you not like people to have an equal chance? Why be surprised EVE attracts less new players and most new accounts seem to be alts?

The diversity still comes from things like ISK differences. Even the richest alliance can't afford to lose 25 supercapitals a day. Some ships just aren't effecive; a paladin won't beat a frigate.

The fun thing is that different ships have different roles so the fleet or group setup makes a difference, even if the SP is the same. Compare it to guildwars; everyone has max level and best gear, still battles could be immensely exciting because of team strategy and player skill.

I'd rather have skills train 5 times faster (still requires 5 years to train everything, more than in any other game and you still have to make choices) and let abovementioned things play a bigger role.
Originally by: Llambda
That you can't participate in PvP the way you want to doesn't mean you can't participate.

Sure, we can all be cannon fodder. Is that fun? Why do you think so many new players leave the game again and EVE has one of the worst retention rates of any mmorpg? Do you think far more people would stay if we would all start anew with 0 SP on a new server?

Mabah Vin
Posted - 2011.06.29 14:05:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: McRoll
Edited by: McRoll on 29/06/2011 13:20:29
Again, if you dont want time and the resulting higher numbers to matter, tell me how you'd like Eve to be. Keep in mind that most MMO's are nothing more than numbers which become bigger with time, be it your charakter's level, more damage on your new gear or a bigger ship with bigger guns.

You basically want a game where player skill matters and the gear you spend time gathering and the knowledge you accumulate over time means little to nothing, is that right?



Just to set the record, I was playing games on the 8086.

So I am aware of the fevernt love of 'MMO's' as they were.

But like everything, times change.

Culture and society changes.

Here is the reality.

Games have evolved from 'Dungeons and Dragon's' and playing 'Star Trek' on printers at universities in the 1970's, to where people want to be 'competetive' in a 'virtual' universe as they are in the real universe.

The 'games' have evolved to where the 'person' with his own attributes, skill and reflexes determine the outcome of the game.

The person is the 'game'.

And the 'real' attributes of that person is put against another.
Equiptment and map is secoundary to reflexes and true skill.

The secound reality is, in our economy and society, many simply do not have the 'time'.

Family, economy, businesses all take more time than they did when MMO's were first introduced.

Many simply do not have the 'time' to play hours or wait weeks or months to play on a level they wish to play.

So they go elsewhere.

Now, one can speak of the fervent belief in 'time' and SP of some MMO's and I can appreciate that.

And in another era, they may have been correct.

But in regards to today's society, economy and limited free personal 'time' many have, people's time are at a premium.

Players is what keeps games going..players and money..

And I think I can say with some confidence, that even in good times, competition between game companies is brutal..in this economy, even more so.

And I think EVE is losing many in the 'time' market who go elsewhere.

And 'money' from new players is what keeps the games alive.

From a philosophical standpoint, if EVE is a 'universe', than universes evolve..they are in constant flux, and never stay the same.

But perhaps that is what some fear..

Change.

But, no change means, stagnant..sooner or later.

McRoll
Minmatar
Heatseekers
Posted - 2011.06.29 14:05:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling

Why would you not like people to have an equal chance? Why be surprised EVE attracts less new players and most new accounts seem to be alts?

The diversity still comes from things like ISK differences. Even the richest alliance can't afford to lose 25 supercapitals a day. Some ships just aren't effecive; a paladin won't beat a frigate.

The fun thing is that different ships have different roles so the fleet or group setup makes a difference, even if the SP is the same. Compare it to guildwars; everyone has max level and best gear, still battles could be immensely exciting because of team strategy and player skill.

I'd rather have skills train 5 times faster (still requires 5 years to train everything, more than in any other game) and let abovementioned things play a bigger role.
Originally by: Llambda
That you can't participate in PvP the way you want to doesn't mean you can't participate.

Sure, we can all be cannon fodder. Is that fun? Why do you think so many new players leave the game again and EVE has one of the worst retention rates of any mmorpg? Do you think far more people would stay if we would all start anew with 0 SP on a new server?



I like equal chances. Only, it wont work that way if new players get simply more SP. Why, read previous posts and this one.

ISK doesnt really matter in Eve by now. Old players have accumulated huge piles of ISK by now and even if the new players start with the same amount of SP as vets, the vets will still outperform them by fitting faction/officer and by sinking RL money into PLEX to buy that and/or bot. They will simply fly T3 if the new player flies T2 and all the T1 ships become obsolete and the new players will complain that they cannot compete.

As I stated before, total amount of SP doesnt matter, only thing that matters is your amount of SP relative to your opponent. If you cannot compete with the capital fleets in 0.0 (means no SP to fly a cap), simply dont do it. Look for an environment where you can compete with your ingame means. There are a lot of players with low SP, you dont have to rush into that 0.0.

RL example: Imagine you would like to gain more influence. You have the theoretical possibilities to compete directly with the president of United States for a lot of influence or simply with your co-workers in your job. Is it easier to get promoted in your job or to strive to become the next president? Some people choose to get promoted in their job and are happy while others dream about something that cannot be achieved and are unhappy.

Mabah Vin
Posted - 2011.06.29 14:17:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Mabah Vin on 29/06/2011 14:22:01
Edited by: Mabah Vin on 29/06/2011 14:21:37
Edited by: Mabah Vin on 29/06/2011 14:20:18
Originally by: Llambda
Originally by: Mabah Vin
Originally by: McRoll
Edited by: McRoll on 29/06/2011 12:07:41



Well, that's simply not true.

For example, if someone wishes to mine, there is a 'time' factor.
Depending on the mining barge, we're talking a month?..


I like how you pretend that you must have a mining barge to mine.

Quote:
If I want to compete in PVP (And I'm not talking a T1 frigate as blaster bait), there is a 'time' factor for weapons, shields etc.

To a player with limited personal time, he/she wants to 'play', not 'wait'.


That you can't participate in PvP the way you want to doesn't mean you can't participate.

Quote:
The question is, why should someone who wishes to compete in PVP for example, use EVE, when they can PVP with equal weapons and using their own skill in another game, and do it now..


You basically just asked why someone should play an MMORGP instead of an FPS. That's what the genre is - persistent games with a system of progression.







I think your missing the point of the thread.

That is, people who wish to play on a level they want to.

That is, they may want a barge.

They may want to PVP in a competetive ship.

By all means, if one wishes to mine in a frigate with a civilian miner, do so.

But the question is, how many people are we losing who DO NOT wish to mine in a frigate or spend days, weeks months accruing skillpoints to mine in a barge.

Or cannot PVP competively as they wish?

Buying skillpoints.

That is what the thread is about.

How many people are we losing due to the 'time factor' of 'skills'..

Or who don't have the 'time' personally because of 'real life'?

Mabah Vin
Posted - 2011.06.29 14:41:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Mabah Vin on 29/06/2011 14:56:26
Edited by: Mabah Vin on 29/06/2011 14:42:16
Originally by: McRoll
Originally by: Jennifer Starling

I like equal chances. Only, it wont work that way if new players get simply more SP. Why, read previous posts and this one.

.


Why not.

And what's the big deal?

People like PVP right?

Buying skill points the 'noobs' can buy weapons, shields, ships as powerful as anybodies.

Think of the thrill of inexperienced pilots shooting weapons as powerful as the next guy.

The dudes from Silent Hunter coming over in covert ops cloaked wolfpacks.

Call Of Duty players rampaging through 0.0..now we're talking about some serious PVP and ordinance flying.

People are yelling they want more PVP...

Well...there it is..Very Happy




Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.06.29 15:17:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Llambda on 29/06/2011 15:30:44
Quote:
I think your missing the point of the thread.


No, I'm pretty sure I understand it perfectly. It's a bunch of self-entitled whining about how unfair everything is.

Quote:
That is, people who wish to play on a level they want to.


That is, they may want a barge.

They may want to PVP in a competetive ship.


Anyone can PvP in a competitive ship. A rifter is a competitive ship. Your assertion that it isn't is completely disingenuous. Call it what it is: They want to PvP in any and every ship without having to invest the time that everyone else did. You're clouding the issue by making it about "competitiveness". There is a limited number of skillpoints that can be utilized in any given ship. I have 25 million SPs in spaceship command. I can only use a small fraction of those in any given ship. Gallente cruise 5 does not do anything for me in a Rupture.

Quote:
By all means, if one wishes to mine in a frigate with a civilian miner, do so.

But the question is, how many people are we losing who DO NOT wish to mine in a frigate or spend days, weeks months accruing skillpoints to mine in a barge.

Or cannot PVP competively as they wish?


Because if you're not mining in a hulk, your only alternative is a rookie ship, right? Rolling Eyes

If we're losing people over this, it's because they don't understand that the real advantage to more SPs is generalization. Someone who can fly every battleship in the game cannot necessarily fly an Armageddon any better than someone who can ONLY fly Amarr battleships. They have more options, but that doesn't matter once everyone has undocked.

Quote:

Buying skillpoints.

That is what the thread is about.

How many people are we losing due to the 'time factor' of 'skills'..


Good question. Care to answer it? Or are you just going to ask rhetorical questions all day? Facts & figures, please. Alternatively, find an argument you can actually support, as the one you keep hanging your hat on is obviously speculative nonsense that only sounds good if nobody stops to think about it too hard.

Quote:
Or who don't have the 'time' personally because of 'real life'?


This... doesn't even make sense. Eve is one of the friendliest games around for people who don't have time, because it's one of the few game that allows you to continue to advance without even logging in. There have been months on end where I haven't played the game at all - merely logged in, queued another skill, and logged out.

Potato IQ
Posted - 2011.06.29 15:22:00 - [68]
 

@ McRoll

OK. Enough quoting, but they looked to be your key points, which I disagree with

There is some I agree with from your post 54. I want longevity from my favourite hobby that is Eve and I’m sure I will get quite a few more years from it if they don’t break it. Without quoting from it, I like your twist on the being ‘satisfied’ meaning ‘being able to compete’ Damn. I just did. But I will try to give a rational on your full posts

Your argument theme looks to centre around the longer you’d played automatically means you should win over somebody younger. So your Indy pilot of 3 years who suddenly starts a skill tree in combat ships should beat a 1 year old pilot who’s skilled and gained combat knowledge in the field? Your 3 year old pilot who has skilled in combat purely for PvE should beat the 1 year old who’s lost and learnt his PvP trade? Pilot age is not the ‘I win’ button over younger pilots, so I don’t see a case for not being able to add additional SP using this example

Dipping your toe into a bit of everything is simply not good enough after 1 ½ years. It also isn’t effective in a decent corp. And I don’t mean one that puts excessive demands on it’s members either. Tougher environments that HS means some minimum requirements are needed. This does not mean being a fully skilled cap pilot. This is not the ‘end game’ for me and I’m sure not for many other pilots. Both T2 tanks gives engagement type flexibility. Different tanks likely means a different race to train. Different race likely means different weapon systems and taking these to meta 4 with passable support skills is not quick. Look at the support workhorse cruiser class and check the pre-req’s for the HIC, Logistics and Recon

If by compete you mean be effective, then yes it’s what I want. But thinking this means all V’s is not the case. Additional SP gives me the options sooner in an overly long skilling system. It has still cost me, albeit not time but a financial cost, so the value of the pilot is still tangible. And let’s not get silly about this if it was implemented. I want it as a value added boost to gameplay, not a replacement for what is a good, if pedestrian, skill system

Mark Sherlock
Posted - 2011.06.29 15:52:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Mark Sherlock on 29/06/2011 15:58:31
Originally by: Joyana Dakota
I've played WoW and one thing that makes WoW so bleeding boring is that in one of my breaks that lasted for atleast 6 months, my guild progressed in raids and endgame content, when I got back, it took me a week to get back to their level... Ding... I'm bored again... This is ofcourse perfect for new players because they will get the chance to grow into the same content and hang with the big boys, as it should be.

Right now, because this game is running for so long, I will never be able to fight a vet pilot in PvP, unless we fly the same ship, the same modules, and even then, his skills will top mine simply because he has spend more time in the game For example, his Sharpshooter level is 5, mine is 3, he wins... it's a simple example but you get the point.


Tried to get some friends to join this game with me... After playing for about a couple weeks and looking at the time and subscription investment needed to gain enough SP to be competitive. I basically stopped trying to convince them. Its too much of a money sink where you basically pay CCP while not playing the game in order to even the odds.

Do I want to log in every couple days for the next 6 months only to set skills? That's where I am at now after two weeks, and havent decided if its worth it or not. Log in, set skill training for the day(s), log off for profit? Very GF friendly MMO.

Vain Eldritch
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.29 15:57:00 - [70]
 

It wont be ISK for SP, not directly.

CCP will allow the purchase of temporary learning speed boosts, I am quite sure of it.

Mark Sherlock
Posted - 2011.06.29 16:01:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Vain Eldritch
It wont be ISK for SP, not directly.

CCP will allow the purchase of temporary learning speed boosts, I am quite sure of it.


I have probably spent like $50 on LoL Boosts when trying to catch up to friends that have been playing the game for months. Totally worth it. Whats $50 when you can save hours and hours of time.

McRoll
Minmatar
Heatseekers
Posted - 2011.06.29 16:32:00 - [72]
 

A honest question:

There are quite some other space MMO'S out there, Jumpgate evolution, Black Prochecy, Star Trek Online... you dont have to wait so long in those games to be competitive. What exactly hinders you to play them instead of Eve? What does Eve make better? If you dont have much time as Mabah Vin tirelessly repeats, why not just log in there and have a quick PvP fight or some quick PvE after levelling really fast?

You play Eve for the skill queue, seriously. Stop lying to yourself, if you were after the gameplay experience, you wouldnt moan about SP. I know I didnt when I started the game, I didnt give a **** about how many SP others got, I did my thing and was in no rush to fly the shiny faction BS with all lvl V, I just did what I could do with my limited skill points and had fun. Obviously you are not able to do so, thats a shame really.

Mixne
Posted - 2011.06.29 17:47:00 - [73]
 

I think there's a pretty simple solution to making the purchase of SP a viable "catch up" alternative. Simply scale the cost of the SP based on your current amount of SP. The player with the most SP simply can not purchase any additional SP. The character just below the highest SP is going to spend a WHOLE lot to get a small amount of SP to catch up. The brand new player can purchase quite a lot of SP for a single PLEX. This scaling would allow people to catch up, but it would be more and more expensive to do so the closer you got to the player with the most SP.

Llambda
Space Llama Industries
Posted - 2011.06.29 21:58:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Llambda on 29/06/2011 22:33:07
Quote:
Right now, because this game is running for so long, I will never be able to fight a vet pilot in PvP, unless we fly the same ship, the same modules, and even then, his skills will top mine simply because he has spend more time in the game For example, his Sharpshooter level is 5, mine is 3, he wins... it's a simple example but you get the point.


And this is why no 2011 character has ever killed a character born before 2006, right?

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.29 22:16:00 - [75]
 

I have always wanted to see "drug addiction" added to the game and this is one way to pull it off.

From day one we have had attribute boosters in the database but they were never seeded such as Percephrine V that used to be +10 perception for 8h with biology 5 (seems CCP has updated the database recently).

I say make them manufacturable in reaction towers like all other boosters, the input should be whatever PI material currently not used in any other products and "cybernetic nanite" that only can be bought with AUR.

The AUR cost per pill in material could be something like 40-80AUR. Giving us pills between 5-10m ISK each.

This would give a player 600SP/h boost but needs to be consumed every 8h and no way to queue multiple injections.

I have a feeling this would have some quite "interesting" effects with the players inclined to use the SP boost. Wink

Yuanrang
Posted - 2011.06.30 02:53:00 - [76]
 

You already pay for skill points. You get 1 month's worth for every month's worth of subscription you pay.

If you've played for 6 years you have 6 years' worth. If you want to begrudge someone who's been playing for 1 year the right to buy 5 years' worth skill points at the equivalent rate (and without getting the 5 years' worth of playing time), then what are you inferring?

Is it that such a scheme would be pay2win? That suggests actual player skill or corporate unity/player relations don't factor much in actual competition.

Or is it that you feel longer standing players have an entitlement to superior skills, and that newcomers must forcibly have the game weighted against them and have a permanent disadvantage against anyone who's played longer?

Maybe you're rightfully ****ed off that having trained and waited for n years, some stranger can come along and buy that progress? Is it that CCP is effectively putting a value on your time? (Have you actually enjoyed playing the game in the n year interim you spent waiting for MegaBoomDevices V to train up?)

Or is it something else? I'm having difficulty finding a justification for this stance that doesn't reflect poorly on either those taking it or on the quality of the game.

Marabel Naari
Posted - 2011.06.30 03:11:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: McRoll
A honest question:

There are quite some other space MMO'S out there, Jumpgate evolution, Black Prochecy, Star Trek Online... you dont have to wait so long in those games to be competitive. What exactly hinders you to play them instead of Eve? What does Eve make better? If you dont have much time as Mabah Vin tirelessly repeats, why not just log in there and have a quick PvP fight or some quick PvE after levelling really fast?

You play Eve for the skill queue, seriously. Stop lying to yourself, if you were after the gameplay experience, you wouldnt moan about SP. I know I didnt when I started the game, I didnt give a **** about how many SP others got, I did my thing and was in no rush to fly the shiny faction BS with all lvl V, I just did what I could do with my limited skill points and had fun. Obviously you are not able to do so, thats a shame really.


How about because I want to play Eve instead?

I'm a newbie to Eve but a long time vet to MMORPG's of 12 years. I remember when Eve came out pretty vividly. I choose to pick up Eve after all these years basically because my husband started playing Eve. (No really, I made my account like 2-3 days after his.) The trial period for Eve with little restriction was a major plus. With the trial of Eve I felt like I could actually play the game. This is not true for a lot of trials.

To be honest I actually hate the SP format. It wasn't what sold the game to me. I'd much rather have a game where I can traditionally level. I've decided to give this game a shot so I'm going to pick one thing and specialize into it. Because lets be honest, I'm FORCED into doing that in Eve. This is not true for other MMORPG's. I can effectively multitask what would be considered "industry" and "combat" skills in other games. In EVE I have two options, 1) get two accounts or 2) pick one and forget the other.

To me this is far more annoying then any disparity between me and veteran players of Eve. When I just pick up a game I'd much rather dabble in a lot of things to get my feet wet. Doing this in Eve is a terrible game plan. For someone like me coming up with a game plan is easy. For some players this would not be so easy... really think about it.

JUSTDANGER
Posted - 2011.06.30 03:52:00 - [78]
 

I would love to see the option to move my unwanted skills i trained early on,and would like to be able to move them where i need them the most.
Just think about movin all those dumb skills you cant remember why you trained em and will never ever use again.

what ya think

McRoll
Minmatar
Heatseekers
Posted - 2011.06.30 06:13:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: McRoll on 30/06/2011 06:13:55
I can agree on the fact that not being able to explore everything in Eve on one account can turn people off, but on the other hand its that decision making process that is unique to Eve. Its like in RL, you cannot do effectively multiple jobs but have to specialize somewhere. Take that away and a Eve becomes a lot less harscher again.

A possible solution to this would be the option to train all 3 char slots on one acount simultaneously. That way you can explore different content but only be able to fly one char at a time. Simply giving more SP wont do it, then we have truly supercarrier online.

Lets dont forget that Eve is a niche game and should remain so. Niche games are not supposed to appeal to a larger audience, even if CCP tries to change that right now. In the end they might be successful and Eve is full of 14 year olds, but then it becomes another WoW clone, and dont we have enough of them already?

Marabel Naari
Posted - 2011.06.30 06:52:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: McRoll
Edited by: McRoll on 30/06/2011 06:13:55
I can agree on the fact that not being able to explore everything in Eve on one account can turn people off, but on the other hand its that decision making process that is unique to Eve. Its like in RL, you cannot do effectively multiple jobs but have to specialize somewhere. Take that away and a Eve becomes a lot less harscher again.

A possible solution to this would be the option to train all 3 char slots on one acount simultaneously. That way you can explore different content but only be able to fly one char at a time. Simply giving more SP wont do it, then we have truly supercarrier online.



I like this idea if it caps out at a low SP number... this way you can explore systems and ideas easily. Eventually though you need to pick a direction in a game. It just doesn't usually happen so fast like it does in EVE. Most of the time there is a grace period where you are just going through the motions, and learning how to play the game.

Even if the world of EVE was plagued by 14 year olds, it still wouldn't be a WoW clone. The games are substantially different on a base level because of the SP system. Also, from what I can see EVE never has had a true "reset"... where as WoW has had like three of those by now. Need I remind you there was a mass exodus of WoW players on the first "reset" of WoW as well.

Oh well. At the moment its fun. That's really all that matters.

Sable Moran
Gallente
Moran Light Industries
Posted - 2011.06.30 07:52:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
From day one we have had attribute boosters in the database but they were never seeded such as Percephrine V



Percephrine V
Volume: 1.0000 m3
Mass: 1.0000 kg


Now that's a hard pill to swallow. Wink

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.06.30 13:05:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Mabah Vin
He is working a full time job and something on the side and does'nt have time to 'wait' for skills.

hm? He is doing his job and his Eve skills are growing up. He is asleep and his Eve skills are growing up. He is making **** in his toilet and his Eve skills are growing up. He even don't need to login to make them grow up.

Which time does he need to 'wait for'???

Stop to speak BS please. Don't break common sense "Eve community is more adult than in other MMOs" Evil or Very Mad

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.06.30 13:24:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Miss Rabblt
Originally by: Mabah Vin
He is working a full time job and something on the side and does'nt have time to 'wait' for skills.

hm? He is doing his job and his Eve skills are growing up. He is asleep and his Eve skills are growing up. He is making **** in his toilet and his Eve skills are growing up. He even don't need to login to make them grow up.

Which time does he need to 'wait for'???

Stop to speak BS please. Don't break common sense "Eve community is more adult than in other MMOs" Evil or Very Mad

Perhaps some people don't want to wait and wait and wait for their skills to - very very slowly - "grow up" and rather do something to speed it up, you don't pay to not play anyway?

Marabel Naari
Posted - 2011.06.30 15:27:00 - [84]
 

Jen, that is the frustration of the newer player. While it is nice I only have to log in once every 1-2 days for a few minutes to "level" it is frustrating that I cannot sit down and level. I cannot sit down and put some extra effort into to it to make it go faster.

Instead you have to find ways to amuse yourself while you "wait."

Mixne
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:31:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Marabel Naari
Jen, that is the frustration of the newer player. While it is nice I only have to log in once every 1-2 days for a few minutes to "level" it is frustrating that I cannot sit down and level. I cannot sit down and put some extra effort into to it to make it go faster.

Instead you have to find ways to amuse yourself while you "wait."


Completely agree. As a new player, when I have the ISK to buy a shiny new spaceship, I would like to be able to fly said shiny new spaceship. It's just more fun that way. I play games for fun. If I hit a point where the fun is not worth the sub fee, I stop paying the sub fee. In my opinion, making a game as fun as possible is the whole point of a making a game.

Mark Sherlock
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:16:00 - [86]
 

If I spend 45 a month on three subscriptions and you spend 15 on one subscription what do I have over you? A smaller wallet and more SP a month. A lot of people have multiple subscriptions, a lot.

I don't find that terribly different than purchasing SP, to be frank. Considering the aged playerbase, avg being 27 (in a pool taken in 2006 heh), most people have established incomes. PLEX is already available to purchase online and sell for ISK ingame. I dont find SP purchasing in some form or fashion too far away.

Considering that it takes 22 years if you wanted to fully train a character, its not like there isnt a value for that vets and nubs a like.

Mark Sherlock
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:26:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Marabel Naari
Instead you have to find ways to amuse yourself while you "wait."


Probably the sole reason more than 15% of this game's users are trails and the retention of those trail to subscribers is something Eve is known quite poorly for. Learn skills have been dropped, step in the right direction. Last time I tried eve years ago there wasnt a tutorial that gave away ships I recall, that aslo help.

The game is going in the right direction in enabling the newer players, but if you load up evemon (which everyone says to use) and you find that it takes 140 days to do X, just piloting the lower teir ships effectively, the glossy finish fades and the carrot is no longer there for some when there is no tangable way to progress that skill training other than log in for 5 minutes every day, for 90+ days $45 dollars later.

A tangable means by helping that progress along be that money in this case, is not bad for the new player and may generate revenue in the process. heck it takes 22 years to fully train a character, who doesnt that tailor to?

Maximillian Dragonard
Posted - 2011.06.30 22:17:00 - [88]
 

Had a long reply typed for this.. then realized that the "I WANT IT NOW!!!" people obviously wouldn't read it anyway.....

The doom of western civilization will be the lack of patience..

Zag'mar Jurkar
Minmatar
Advent of the Blood Sun
Posted - 2011.07.01 04:34:00 - [89]
 

What about, they give the options to new characters to buy, like, 5m sp just to get started in atleast 1 branch of Eve's professions, to get people hooked quicker? And no other way to buy SPs

Sanny Barret
Posted - 2011.07.01 09:14:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Scouting Party
Why sell SP? Sell +6 or +7 implants, or a slot 10 implant that gives a 5% boost to training time? Maybe even a set like the Crystal or Snake sets, focused on learning speed or stat boosts? +1 attribute point/implant, +10% for entire set, +15% for the slot 10?

SP gain=constant over a time (there's even the database entries for +6 and +7 implants isn't there?), the idea that you now train at a 'slower rate' than pre-learning skill removal can be thrown out, and CCP can make a fortune, as they watch every player buy a training clone with +6's in.

I mean.. at $2/implant, that'd be $12 for a full set... if one quarter of all players buy a full set (with maybe 'advanced cybernetics' thrown in as a skill from the market place for these new NeX implants, requiring Cybernetics V... also providing an isk sink of a kind) then that's about 1.5m dollars? And then a slower stream of income as newer players etc. start to want these shiny new implants.

Who doesn't have a training clone for holidays?

Ofc, this probably comes under P2W, but the microscopic gain of SP/hour that it'd bring would only pay for itself in the VERY long term. Not that it'd stop people from investing... look at people who buy +5's at the moment!

Failing that, PLEX allowing you to train multiple characters on one account? PLEX allowing you to train at 1.5x speed for a month?

</derailing>


i think this would rather defeate the purpose of all this .... would benefit equaly the 5 mil sp caracter as the 100 mil sp ones .... the main ideea is to give ppl a boost in geting that T2 ship rather then specializing for the titan no ?


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