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Caliph Muhammed
Caldari
Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:00:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 27/06/2011 00:24:07
No, they won't be selling skills points. Extrapolating an extreme from a minimal is a fallacy.

Having sold a monocle or even thought of real money for in game items doesn't in any way, shape or form lead to selling progression in the game.

Sorry Gnubs and/or Industrialist you'll be buying a toon from the bazaar or training over time like everyone else. There will be no industrialist billionaires switching to combat dominance for cash.

The skill points you have trained and used thus far have led you to where you are presently situated. To allow reskills or skill sales will irrepairably damage the continuity & immersion in EVE and you can be assured it won't happen.


Gillaboo
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:36:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Caliph Muhammed
Edited by: Caliph Muhammed on 27/06/2011 00:24:07
No, they won't be selling skills points. Extrapolating an extreme from a minimal is a fallacy.


And attempting to apply logic to what will be an issue of profit versus anything else, is naive.

Once a company starts down the road of MT's, the range of potential revenue streams blows wide open.

And while the "rumour" of there being some sort of talks with SONY (other than anything to do with DUST) is, for now, defunct... tomorrow is another day.

Smoke 'em if you got 'em... nothing to do but wait.

YARRRR!!


Shadow Wind
Gallente
Crimson Empire.
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:52:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Patient 2428190
Skillpoint respecs, not bulk SP

I would love this and gladly pay to "respec" my skillpoints.

Kinta Huron
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:52:00 - [34]
 

Character skill re-spec.

Electra Magnetic
Posted - 2011.06.27 22:57:00 - [35]
 

Skill training takes too long as it is. There is no fun in the game if you cant do what you want because you cant use the modules you need.

I wholeheartidly agree with being able to purchase SP. As it stands now I pay for accounts to sit there and do absolutly nothing while I wait for them to train some retarted skill for a month so that I can move on to the next one. Its dumb. No other game out there takes so long to train skills in and keeps so many players from enjoying the game because of it.

I'd much rather pay for the points, than waste a year of my time waiting on skill training just to do what I want in the game. Its a game, and it isnt even that good.

Afterall who the **** wants to wait almost 3 weeks for Refining V. How the hell is that going to give me any gratification or even ever pay for itself in game time. It doesnt. This is why CCP will fail.

I call for at least a 50% increase in skill training points.

Sanny Barret
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:10:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Nikita Keriget

- One PLEX for some initial amount of SP, say 2m. Second PLEX gets you 1.5, third 1, fourth 500k. Rate resets after six months.




Briliant !!

why ? ->
- my 96 mil sp capital pilot would gain nothing noticible from buying sp at this ratio ,
- my 64 mil sp pvp char (main) would probably gain 1 lvl (from lvl 4 to 5) on some skill, soo nothing that extreame to unbalance gameplay ...
- my 58 mil sp industry alt would maybe gain 1-2 lvl`s on some science skill that would improve my invention chance on t2 bpc by 2% ,... i don`t think this is extravagant either or that it would unbalance anything ,...

Basicaly the ppl that would benefit mostly from buying sp at this ratio are the ones that have 5 - 30 mil sp toons , it would not overpower them to the skills of older caracters but gives an alternative to buying a skilled pilot of some sort off the caracter bazar ,... witch is great specialy now that ccp is trying to give a sence of identity to players with the avatars we are now able to see in stations.

Potato IQ
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:11:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Caliph Muhammed
Sorry Gnubs and/or Industrialist you'll be buying a toon from the bazaar or training over time like everyone else


And thatís the rub. Having chosen a path and gained some good skills, and not necessarily uber, your left wanting in so many other areas. This restraint on the scope of Eve is becoming a drag. And the purchase of a pilot gives little personal attachment and it becomes a tool rather than a nurtured and valued asset. Cannot see this aiding the retention of players over time

There are too many high-end pre-reqís or simply ships/weapon systems that you cannot use/fit effectively without lvl V. And I donít mean maxing every primary and support skill. Changing a race, which could easily mean a shift of tank type and weapon systems, should not be as painful as it is. And whilst the reasoning behind the required pre-req is understandable for some ship class function, it is still too much for the sake of wanting gaming diversity

Iíve zero interest in purchasing skills to catch up. Iíve now been involved in enough PvP encounters to realise the Ďlonger youíve played = winí type thinking is complete nonsense. A bad pilot, or group of pilots, will still be bad even with far more SP than a competent pilot/fleet. Give this poor argument a rest

Iíve done my duty and I run 3 accounts that the training method, and some game mechanics, forces on you. I have to say itís still too slow and Iím becoming a little resentful after 1 Ĺ years as I still feel collared. Regardless that many donít want MT for anything beyond vanity items, and the non slavering mad dog types have presented strong arguments against it, I for one would thoroughly abuse SP purchasing if implemented. Iím afraid to say that I really hope you do introduce as it will improve my gaming experience immensely

Snow29
Amarr
RRRR KILL
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:33:00 - [38]
 

i hate this idea as people have spend so many years building their characters up and then just some rich person use their credit card is bad...

If they were to bring it in i would only accept one thing and that would be if they put a limit on SP u are allowed to buy up to for example can only buy if below 15 million sp and once hit 15 mill sp then no more can be bought and also cant get past 15 mill sp when buying it..

no more than that

Fellblade
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:35:00 - [39]
 

I think being able to pay to, say, double skill points for a month would be useful. As a relatively new returning player (after a few months playing in 2004), there is no way I can ever catch up with someone who has been subbed for longer than I have. Nor do I want to catch up all the way; I don't need to. I would, however, like to be able to effectively buy a couple of months of extra skill training, to catch up a little.

I don't see how it's different to buying a character from someone else? You're already effectively buying Skill Points, just you end up with someone elses name and face...

Sabre Tek
Posted - 2011.06.28 13:52:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Sabre Tek on 28/06/2011 13:54:27
You old lot love playing your multi year characters and having big advantages over others and not wanting anything to change are just idiots.
In normal games World of Warcraft for instance players could catch up to you in a few weeks/months of hard daily play and progress to where they too can enjoy all area's of the game like you can.

CCP already sell SP by letting you buy plex and then buy characters. I spent a good amount of real money so I could buy a character so I could experience ALL of Eve.

CCP allowing casual players to buy SP is very smart and would allow a far greater amount of casual gamers to enjoy Eve and would increase the player base and CCP's wallet which is good for EVE universe with more money and investment.

Right now people are getting stuck in a grind between some stupid thing like 2 weeks training to get to Exhumers, well that 2 weeks or 5 weeks whatever can be too much and people just quit. Let them pay $15 to buy some SP and get upto Exhumers, then they'll see how crap it is and start doing missions and pay more for battleship skill SP when they get stuck at level 3's. Pretty soon they'll probably quit of bordom or go join a PVP / nullsec corp and maybe buy more sp then to fly that new ship. CCP makes money the whole way and the gamer enjoys the game the whole time as he has the freedom to not have to wait 2 months to fly the ship he wants. He isn't 'stuck' waiting for 3-5 weeks to fit into that tengu which after he fits in it, is crap till he trains another 5 weeks of support skills.

The current Eve is hostile to most new players I quit Eve twice in the past cause i'm a person who hates having restrictions put on me, I want to be able to grind to that level 50 if I put the time in, I don't want some glass ceiling where I can see in 3 months time I can fly a battleship with a nice booster and maybe fly that level 4 Angel mission. I mean its a joke in its current state. You either drop $300-1000 and buy enough plex to buy a nicely skills toon or you wait months and months for crappy skills to train. Why shouldn't there be a interim system?

Oh yes thats right cause your sheep and sheep (predictably as CCP stated) don't like change...

Malachias Orin
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:13:00 - [41]
 

I'm not opposed to buying SP for Plex for several previously stated reasons.

1) You can buy a character on the Bazaar legitimately. Only downfall is a name you didn't choose. Even the face can be changed with a re-customization in a station.

2) SP isn't a representation of flying skill. Just a percentage advantage in particular stats. People with gunnery 5 vs gunnery 4 shoot 2% faster.

3) Ships are limited in their loadouts by their slotting. Having 300 million skillpoints doesn't mean you can load full guns, cloak, AB, MWD, neut, ECM, ECCM, tackle, tracking, damage, ROF, range boosts onto a frigate. You still have to fit your ship with a clear cut goal and strategy in mind. You can't do everything at once.

4) Buying SP doesn't give any particular advantage over another character, in the sense that skills have level caps. Cruiser 5 is cruiser 5. Whether you paid subscription for 6 months, or 1 month and 5 Plex (in a hypothetical sense) to get there doesn't really matter in my opinion. It's not paying to win, it's paying to level the field.

5) The game can get boring for new characters (vets or total newbs alike). This is a new account for me, though not the first time I've played. I'm not bothered by the fact I have to spend time to train. I rather like it, as I can go about my daily real life business. I'm about a month in, 1.7m skill points. I'm flying a Battlecruiser and running level 3 missions without much difficulty. I'd like to move on to level 4's, but jumping into a battleship with 2m skill points would be financial suicide. So I'm stuck waiting for months of training to play the next logical step. In other words, if I have to wait, I will. I would prefer to not have to though, and work on a greater challenge and better my playing ability, in a real skill sense, not a skill point sense.

6) Buying skillpoints with Plex draws Plex from the market. Resource consumption is good for EVE and the Market. Supply and Demand after all.

That being said, I do support a cap on it as well. 10-20 Million SP seems fair. Would allow people to get in different ships, with the ability for different fits, gunnery options, drone skills, what have you, and explore a larger portion of the game, be it harder missions, wormholes, or even moving beyond tackle ***** in fleet warfare. I think most people start window shopping ships once they decide the game is something they want to invest time playing, and set goals for what they want to fly. Having to wait 6 months or more to realize that is an exercise in patience, not investment of time played.


Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:22:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 28/06/2011 14:23:39
Originally by: Snow29
i hate this idea as people have spend so many years building their characters up and then just some rich person use their credit card is bad...


Yes the character bazaar should be removed immediately! Neutral
Originally by: Sanny Barret
Originally by: Nikita Keriget

- One PLEX for some initial amount of SP, say 2m. Second PLEX gets you 1.5, third 1, fourth 500k. Rate resets after six months.


Briliant !!
why ? ->
- my 96 mil sp capital pilot would gain nothing noticible from buying sp at this ratio ,
- my 64 mil sp pvp char (main) would probably gain 1 lvl (from lvl 4 to 5) on some skill, soo nothing that extreame to unbalance gameplay ...
- my 58 mil sp industry alt would maybe gain 1-2 lvl`s on some science skill that would improve my invention chance on t2 bpc by 2% ,... i don`t think this is extravagant either or that it would unbalance anything ,...

Basicaly the ppl that would benefit mostly from buying sp at this ratio are the ones that have 5 - 30 mil sp toons , it would not overpower them to the skills of older caracters but gives an alternative to buying a skilled pilot of some sort off the caracter bazar ,... witch is great specialy now that ccp is trying to give a sence of identity to players with the avatars we are now able to see in stations.

Agreed!

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.06.28 14:53:00 - [43]
 

one more stupid thread "let's make new rumors"...
waiting for something more interesting Rolling Eyes

Verocity
Posted - 2011.06.28 19:51:00 - [44]
 

I'd agree under one condition:

You can only apply bought skill points to the first four levels of a skill.

Scouting Party
Posted - 2011.06.28 22:29:00 - [45]
 

Why sell SP? Sell +6 or +7 implants, or a slot 10 implant that gives a 5% boost to training time? Maybe even a set like the Crystal or Snake sets, focused on learning speed or stat boosts? +1 attribute point/implant, +10% for entire set, +15% for the slot 10?

SP gain=constant over a time (there's even the database entries for +6 and +7 implants isn't there?), the idea that you now train at a 'slower rate' than pre-learning skill removal can be thrown out, and CCP can make a fortune, as they watch every player buy a training clone with +6's in.

I mean.. at $2/implant, that'd be $12 for a full set... if one quarter of all players buy a full set (with maybe 'advanced cybernetics' thrown in as a skill from the market place for these new NeX implants, requiring Cybernetics V... also providing an isk sink of a kind) then that's about 1.5m dollars? And then a slower stream of income as newer players etc. start to want these shiny new implants.

Who doesn't have a training clone for holidays?

Ofc, this probably comes under P2W, but the microscopic gain of SP/hour that it'd bring would only pay for itself in the VERY long term. Not that it'd stop people from investing... look at people who buy +5's at the moment!

Failing that, PLEX allowing you to train multiple characters on one account? PLEX allowing you to train at 1.5x speed for a month?



Slightly offtopic I guess, but:

<derailing>
AUR used for partial subscriptions? I'd love to be able to buy myself a smaller subscription using AUR rather than an entire month sometimes. Charge 8AU/hour and you're making a profit (it works out at about 6000 AUR/month, or about 1.5 PLEX....) Obviously, you'd have to disallow it for trial accounts subscribing, or at least set a minimum amount (2 weeks?)

The notion of buying my friend 2 weeks of EVE seems a lot less hardship than buying them an entire month.. especially if they then get hooked thanks to having an entire month rather than just the 21-day trial.

AUR for more buddy invites? 1500 AUR/invite maybe? Given that we can get a month's subscription out of it, it doesn't seem unreasonable. Naturally, you'd have to monitor the system being misused (ie. people starting alts using it).


</derailing>

Mirreck
Posted - 2011.06.29 03:28:00 - [46]
 

I think it would be a great idea. The one thing I don't like about playing the game right now is seeing my training queue hit over 60 days, or even upwards to 300 days or more just to learn how to fly a new ship. I like the skill system, I don't like the real-time part of it though.

Quite honestly, I am hoping this happens because I have a good enough income to train everything I want and train my friends in everything they want and just dominate the entire game; which would be epic. Problem is, eventually it would turn into griefing players, because I would conquer everything like a goddamned Necromonger lol.

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.06.29 07:21:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 29/06/2011 07:23:02
Originally by: Scouting Party
Why sell SP? Sell +6 or +7 implants, or a slot 10 implant that gives a 5% boost to training time? Maybe even a set like the Crystal or Snake sets, focused on learning speed or stat boosts? +1 attribute point/implant, +10% for entire set, +15% for the slot 10?

SP gain=constant over a time (there's even the database entries for +6 and +7 implants isn't there?), the idea that you now train at a 'slower rate' than pre-learning skill removal can be thrown out, and CCP can make a fortune, as they watch every player buy a training clone with +6's in.

I mean.. at $2/implant, that'd be $12 for a full set... if one quarter of all players buy a full set (with maybe 'advanced cybernetics' thrown in as a skill from the market place for these new NeX implants,


Those would be cheaper than +5s are now.

I'd expect them at least cost about 5 times as much than +5s, so roughly 5000 Aurum for a +6 and probably like ~13000 Aurum for a + 7

Edit: If you could buy skillpoints, it would need to be quite inefficient to make up for the cost of it getting it upfront. So maybe 750K SP for a PLEX.

Potato IQ
Posted - 2011.06.29 08:23:00 - [48]
 

Implants are not the way to go. Apart from the example of making them cheaper than current +5ís being silly, this would be a one time purchase for many and the idea from CCPís perspective it to have a steady returning customer base. I donít think making them so expensive is the option either as PvP pilots will not use as many donít go beyond +3ís. A lot of relatively safe HS dwellers donít go beyond +4ís

The variable SP purchase plan ideas add complication that isnít required. Donít see the point is restricting use depending on current SP level and not being able to use beyond lvl IV is just plain dumb. The hard wait is from IV to V and is especially painful if pre-req before you can move on

750k I think is too low. Possible base on the rank V skill set of 1.28m as they do constitute quite a few pre-reqís. Itís less than a month pilot license SP gain, so should not de-value the character purchase market, yet still offers a quicker opening to gameplay

Akita Tís thread on ĎGood ideas for non-vanity, non-advantage items or services for AURí is all well and good, and selling SP has not yet been officially proposed, but being able to purchase SP is the only thing using AUR could offer me. Vets having played longer to gain the SP and thus more options doesnít wash anymore, although I appreciate youíve had to go through the time pain already. At least the SP amount you get for PLEX/AUR conversion is less than the standard training time using the figure quoted above, so the pilots do pay for the privilege and it costs more than character purchase which essentially does the same thing

McRoll
Minmatar
Heatseekers
Posted - 2011.06.29 09:36:00 - [49]
 

Its not as simple as just allowing to buy SP and everything is fine for new players.

While in theory it would be fine to allow newer players to compete with vets via SP, it would render many aspects of the game obsolete. There is a whole load of ships, modules and activities that are geared towards new players and give them something to do while they skill up. If players can buy high amounts of SP, all these things are useless database garbage.

If a new player starts the game and buys 20 m SP, he will skip everything to be required to earn his first million, the knowledge, the ships and modules, his natural progression to the point where he knows what he wants to do and how to utilize his 20 m SP properly. He will be just like "ooh, shiney faction BS, lets buy it and see what I can do". He flies in a mission without fitting a tank and just pops there. After that, he ragequits.

Lets be honest, nearly everybody would buy SP for ISK, its the nature of the player of an MMO to min/max and get the highest possible advantage. In the end you will get nothing from your bought SP, because everybody bought it and everybody will still have higher SP than the new player who just started, except he chose to spend ******ed amounts of RL money.

Only thing that matters is your SP relative to the SP of other players.

Also, the whole combat mechanics would need to be revamped. In an MMO, there needs to be something that differentiates new players from the old ones. That is usually accomplished via numbers, means either your char has a higher lvl or better gear with higher numbers. Now, if in Eve everybody flies around in all lvl 5 skills for a particular ship with similar fittings, how can you tell the difference between a vet or a new player? The "real skill" amount in Eve is rather limited because there isnt so much you can do to control your ship, some degree of manual piloting, observing your overheating temperatures and be able to control range, but not much more.

If you just erase the difference between the vet and the new player without compensating the vet, who has spent years into the game, you basically **** the vet in the face. I bet this is exactly what many "pro-SP-buyers2 want to do.

Now if you want to limit the amount of SP to be able to be bought, where do you draw the line? New players skill up WAY faster already than a couple of years before. You cannot simply boost it further and further before you break the system how Eve works at some point.

Harpalyce Dynameos
Posted - 2011.06.29 10:02:00 - [50]
 

The seed has been planted...

Fellblade
Posted - 2011.06.29 10:05:00 - [51]
 

I don't actually think that you'll see new players taking advantage of this right away. I think you're much more likely to see people take up this type of offer after 6 months or so of playing.

Very few people will pick up a new MMO and instantly spend $100 on it to bring their character up to a state which is still only a tiny fraction of the skill points that other have.

Even if someone did want to, a straight plex-for-double SP per month would not let them instantly spend a huge amount and 'level' up to, say, high-skilled BS pilot instantly

Potato IQ
Posted - 2011.06.29 10:56:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: McRoll

If a new player starts the game and buys 20 m SP



Yet the same person can purchase that SP from the character bazaar. The difference beingÖÖ

Originally by: McRoll

Now, if in Eve everybody flies around in all lvl 5 skills for a particular ship with similar fittings, how can you tell the difference between a vet or a new player?



Iíve seen this, or a similar, comment before and itís a poor argument IMO. It implies that longer serving player need to feel they will win over the other pilot because they have more SP? Really? Here was me thinking that the application of pilot knowledge was part of the Eve ethos and that gameplay skill plays a far greater role that raw SP. If not the case, then screw the training queue and lets have levelling up like in WoW where a lower skilled player cannot win against a higher one (this is inferred from what Iíve read as not played the game)

Originally by: McRoll

You cannot simply boost it further and further before you break the system how Eve works at some point



Breaks what system? Pilots only targeting ones they know they have a chance against based on DOB?

ep0c x
Posted - 2011.06.29 11:17:00 - [53]
 


The best way I can see to do this would be to offer new characters an 'education' in game.

So long as your under 2mil or so traditionally time-learned skill points you should be able to 'buy' educational courses.

Basic grounding sets of skills that could be based around the certificate system.

e.g.

- Basic shield tanking course
- Small projectile weapons course
- scanning 101

and so on.

The goal would be to allow new characters to get a good chunk of the required but fairly dull skills out of the way and quickly try their hand at different aspects of the game.

My girlfriend started playing last week and I'd gladly drop £5 or so once she figures out what she wants to do in eve to give her a good base of the required skills.


-No unbalancing of already capable characters.
-Helps new players to the game.

Its pretty much the same as buying characters on the bazaar only it allows the new player to make and get attached to an avatar which is the point of incarna.

McRoll
Minmatar
Heatseekers
Posted - 2011.06.29 11:45:00 - [54]
 

@ Potato IQ

If you are going to quote me, how about you dont simply take single statements out of context but answer my post as a whole? What I wrote was meant to be read as a whole big statement why buying SP doesnt work in a MMO like Eve.

If you play a MMO, you want to play it for longer than your usual singleplayer game. You put work into something to achieve a certain long- term goal, this is the basics of an usual MMO. Of course you are supposed to have fun in the process, "the way is the goal", many say but its not that alone, most players want a feeling of achievement once they completed their goal, this mechanic binds players to a MMO, causes them to stay longer. A MMO where you achieve something very fast or without effort gets boring.

It is not true that you are limited by SP to "experience everything in Eve". You want to experience th mechanics of flying a logistic? You dont need cruiser V and the other thigs to do so, there are T1 equivalents of logistics where you can fit them with T1 modules and RR your buddy to experience how it feels. Want to do exploration? You can do so in your first week by exploring the sites in highsec. Want to trade? You can start right away, with some limited capital. You are not limited by time (or only slightly) if you want to experience how an activity in Eve feels like- the basic skills are learned very fast, its the advanced ones that take longer.

The results of said activities with limited skills wont be satisfying of course, but you want the experience and the feel of that activity and not the results, do you? If you are after the results, you just want the SP to be able to compete with other players, but the older players have spent time to become better in their chosen fields. If you dont want to spend that time but be able to fly everything the older ones do, well it will never happen.

Even if you will be able to purchase SP, others will do it as well and youre still not better than them. So you can now fly carriers? Well, others are able to fly supercarriers and all the new ones can fly carriers as well as you do. You are still not better in relation to them, the game only became capitals online, even more as it is now. Sucks, doesnt it?

Now if you want Eve to be skill- based, where actual player skill really matters, this doesnt work as the whole game needs to be rewritten from scratch. Good luck hoping for that in the current situation. I want that player skill matters more as well, it just doesnt work the way the game works now.

TLDR: The SP buyer wont achieve anything. All the skills you accumulate after your first couple of months only enable you to fly better variants of ships, not completely new ones. A black ops is just a very enhanced covert ops with jump drive, a carrier is an oversized Dominix. And yet you can use the mechanics of cloaking, RR and drones with previous ships and with worse skills in the first few months.

Mabah Vin
Posted - 2011.06.29 11:53:00 - [55]
 

I tryed to get a friend to join EVE.

He is working a full time job and something on the side and does'nt have time to 'wait' for skills.

So, he plays CoD and another game..shootum ups..they're fast, quick and more importantly, to the casual player they can get some excitement and 'compete' on a real level with others.
(Great PVP prospect..: P)

My point is, in today's economy (and some could argue society), many simply don't have the time to spend months/years.

Many people have limited personal time to play a game.

They want to play..mine..PVP..PVE, etc for 30 minutes to an hour, then shut the computer down and get ready for another day of 'real life'.

I think selling SP would be a great way for the casual player and especially people with limited time, to compete or do what they want without the 'time' factor; bringing new people into EVE.



McRoll
Minmatar
Heatseekers
Posted - 2011.06.29 12:06:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: McRoll on 29/06/2011 12:07:41
I wonder how I was able to play the game and have fun all the time when I didnt have 50 m SP to fly all the shiny things. Back then when skilling up was slower than now. Maybe I didnt wait for skills to finish but played the game instead?

Just so you know, Eve skill system is actually the most friendly one for people with little free time. You dont have to grind NPC's for weeks to level up, you dont have to level up skills by using them. You just log in, inject a skill and log off for a week again. Hows that not good for people with little time to play? If you want to log in and do something for an hour, theres lots of stuff to do: play the market game, run 2- 3 missions, explore your neighboring 2-3 systems for signatures, have a fight in RvB, etc, etc.

The best thing is, you can do everything with limited SP as well.

If you cant figure out what to do with your time, or how to play the game with less than 30 mil SP, youre too stupid for this game, plain and simply.


Mabah Vin
Posted - 2011.06.29 12:22:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: McRoll
Edited by: McRoll on 29/06/2011 12:07:41
The best thing is, you can do everything with limited SP as well.

If you cant figure out what to do with your time, or how to play the game with less than 30 mil SP, youre too stupid for this game, plain and simply.




Well, that's simply not true.

For example, if someone wishes to mine, there is a 'time' factor.
Depending on the mining barge, we're talking a month?..

If I want to compete in PVP (And I'm not talking a T1 frigate as blaster bait), there is a 'time' factor for weapons, shields etc.

To a player with limited personal time, he/she wants to 'play', not 'wait'.

The question is, why should someone who wishes to compete in PVP for example, use EVE, when they can PVP with equal weapons and using their own skill in another game, and do it now..not have to wait next month..two months..6 months..
Again, we're talking real competition, not blaster bait.

And again, we're talking 'reality' which some hardcore MMO players with alot of time, have a hard time understanding.

Not all people have alot of time.

Wake up, get the kid ready for school, go to work, pick the kids up, fix supper, get the kids ready for bed, clean the house, wash the dishes.

This is the real world for many.

And personal time is at a premium.

So these people are not 'stupid', they have a real life that many have to contend with and personal time is at a premium.

McRoll
Minmatar
Heatseekers
Posted - 2011.06.29 12:32:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: McRoll on 29/06/2011 12:34:40
You can compete with others in PvP with limited skills. You just cannot compete with the "big guys" in their capital fights somewhere in 0.0 or with old players. But why should you be able to?

If there are a lot of players with limited SP, they can compete each other. RvB is such a place for example. If you want something else, you can organize it with like- minded players. Get them together in a corp and decc another corp of low-skilled players or whatever you want.

You cannot seriously expect that a player who invests little time in a MMO can compete with a player with lots of time sunk into it. Its a fundamental flaw in your thinking, MMO's simply dont work like you would like them to. The players who spent the most time there always dominate. The same goes for a shooter, a player who practices more is better than the casual. And this is how it should be.

By the way, I only log about 3 times a week for 2-3 hours into Eve, not that you think I would nerd it for 23/7. I can compete with others just fine, just because I choose with who to compete, not with the entire Eve population.

Sorry, but your argument makes no sense. You just want more SP for free, admit itTwisted Evil

The "I have a life" argument is so old, it has a beard reaching to the floor. Always used by people as their ass in the sleeve when the rest of their argumentation fails.

Mabah Vin
Posted - 2011.06.29 13:01:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Mabah Vin on 29/06/2011 13:07:34
Originally by: McRoll
Edited by: McRoll on 29/06/2011 12:34:40
The players who spent the most time there always dominate. The same goes for a shooter, a player who practices more is better than the casual. And this is how it should be.



Time is correct.

Because it has nothing to do with 'skill'.

A person could simply put 'skills' in his charactor sheet, walk away..check it every few days and max the skills in a particular weapon system, defense and ship, engage someone with less 'skill points' with weapons and ship he never flew.

And guess what?

He would probably win.

To someone who has played EVE and maxed the point system, he/she knows engaging a target with less skillpoints (and we all know they look for the charactor for his/her experience in many cases before engaging..), he/she knows the victory is almost ensured against a low 'point' advrsary.

So your correct, the one in EVE with the most 'time' dominates.
'Time' in the charactor sheet.

Which makes it no 'true skill' in the combat, unless of course you count 'point and click' for the most part.

It is 'time', not skill that determine firepower, defense, speed ..survivability..etc..skill has little to do with it.

kind of makes the killboards a bit of a joke when your talking true 'skill' huh?

But, there is one sure way to find out which games survive.

And we all know that is 'money'.

We'll see where people put their money.

And as you pointed out.

That's a matter of 'time' yet again.

McRoll
Minmatar
Heatseekers
Posted - 2011.06.29 13:20:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: McRoll on 29/06/2011 13:20:29
Again, if you dont want time and the resulting higher numbers to matter, tell me how you'd like Eve to be. Keep in mind that most MMO's are nothing more than numbers which become bigger with time, be it your charakter's level, more damage on your new gear or a bigger ship with bigger guns.

You basically want a game where player skill matters and the gear you spend time gathering and the knowledge you accumulate over time means little to nothing, is that right?

If so, there are TONS of games out there which work exactly that way. Eve wouldnt work without the time factor, because it would be just players flying the same 5 optimal ships with the same optimal skills and the same optimal fittings. No diversity whatsoever and the room for "player skill" is extremely limited, as the controls and the interaction with your ship are extremely limited as well. You can do manual piloting by clicking in space, manage your cap, keep your range and watch for overheat temperatures but not much more.

Most of the actual "skill" happens before the fight, its called intel. Knowledge about your enemy, how he has fitted his ship, his gang composition, right time to engage etc. This is not time limited, every player with extremely little SP can be very useful if he provides this information, he just needs to accumulate this knowledge.

So again, tell me how just "more SP" for all players would make Eve better and help you?


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