open All Channels
seplocked Skill Discussions
blankseplocked Since it is inevitable CCP is going to sell SP...
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7

Author Topic

Nikita Keriget
Posted - 2011.06.25 04:56:00 - [1]
 

I'd rather CCP didn't introduce non-vanity MT, but it's pretty clear at this point that they will. Selling unlimited SP would be incredibly unbalancing, but is there a way that it could be done that would meet their goals without completely destroying the progression system?

If the goal of introducing a MT based system is attracting casual players, the instant gratification of MT is in direct conflict with the delayed gratification of the time based skill queue. So selling SP to let newer players get into the game faster would be a desired outcome, letting someone max out would not.

Possibilities:
- PLEX to train at double speed. Could possibly allow two PLEX to train at triple speed, restricted to characters less than a year old.
- One PLEX for some initial amount of SP, say 2m. Second PLEX gets you 1.5, third 1, fourth 500k. Rate resets after six months.

It would be better to leave things as they are, but if we no longer have that choice, how can CCP introduce their MTs in a less disruptive way?

ALEX THAGREAT
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:12:00 - [2]
 

it would **** me off so bad if they started selling game progression. that defeats the point.

Nikita Keriget
Posted - 2011.06.25 05:20:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: ALEX THAGREAT
it would **** me off so bad if they started selling game progression. that defeats the point.


I don't feel quite as strongly, but someone training at double speed is significantly less destructive than instantly skilling up to a perfect supercarrier.

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:36:00 - [4]
 

Skillpoint respecs, not bulk SP

Keesington
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:16:00 - [5]
 

Is there any differance between buying plex and selling them on market for isk. then buying a high SP toon from the character Bazarr with that isk that say is a perfect Super and or Titan pilot....not really in my opinion, so I doubt it will be game breaking or too much to cry about if they did start selling SP.
I promote Noobs in Big big ships.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:44:00 - [6]
 

1 PLEX = 2m SP, sounds like a fair convertion ratio.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:22:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
1 PLEX = 2m SP, sounds like a fair convertion ratio.

19.44 million SP in 30 days with +5s at 2700 SP/hour.

As I have a few spare billion iskies I would gladly invest it all in SP! Razz

Mr Majestyk
Combat and Recon
The Last Chancers.
Posted - 2011.06.25 20:13:00 - [8]
 

The problem is selling SP does not help new players. It helps older players the most since they already have the isk to buy this sp.

Nikita Keriget
Posted - 2011.06.25 20:19:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
1 PLEX = 2m SP, sounds like a fair convertion ratio.

19.44 million SP in 30 days with +5s at 2700 SP/hour.

As I have a few spare billion iskies I would gladly invest it all in SP! Razz



Decimal is in the wrong place, it works out to 1.944 million SP, which is why I rounded it up to 2m. Basically, a PLEX of purchased SP would be roughly the same amount as a sitting in station for a month on that same plex just training.

Nikita Keriget
Posted - 2011.06.25 20:23:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Mr Majestyk
The problem is selling SP does not help new players. It helps older players the most since they already have the isk to buy this sp.


Think about the type of players MT and purchasable SP will bring into the game - they are probably more likely to be willing to open their wallets to buy SP.

And while those older players will have the isk to buy PLEX to buy SP, that helps compensate for the fact that newer players getting SP faster than they did erodes their advantage.

The more I think about it, I just want CCP to make a decision and execute on it quickly. If no purchasable SP awesome, normal progression. If purchasable SP ok, at least I can get into T2 cruisers faster. But if I spend the next six months training to finally get into a logistics just as they announce purchasable SP then, I'd be annoyed.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.06.25 20:30:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 25/06/2011 20:54:51
Originally by: Nikita Keriget
Decimal is in the wrong place, it works out to 1.944 million SP, which is why I rounded it up to 2m. Basically, a PLEX of purchased SP would be roughly the same amount as a sitting in station for a month on that same plex just training.

Oops sorry .. Embarassed
Originally by: Mr Majestyk
The problem is selling SP does not help new players. It helps older players the most since they already have the isk to buy this sp.

Yes it's not for the 1 week old players but the players who are playing for a few months may benefit greatly.
Looking at myself, I already had made a few billion after a few months by missioning and trading (mostly high end stuff). I bought a whole pile of T2 and T3 ships, some of which I still can't fly (with 30 mil SP).

Nikita Keriget
Posted - 2011.06.25 20:38:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Originally by: Nikita Keriget
Decimal is in the wrong place, it works out to 1.944 million SP, which is why I rounded it up to 2m. Basically, a PLEX of purchased SP would be roughly the same amount as a sitting in station for a month on that same plex just training.

Oops sorry .. :x
Originally by: Mr Majestyk
The problem is selling SP does not help new players. It helps older players the most since they already have the isk to buy this sp.

Yes it's not for the 1 week old players but the players who are playing for a few months may benefit greatly.
Looking at myself, I already had made a few billion after a few months by missioning and trading (mostly high end stuff). I bought a whole pile of T2 and T3 ships, some of which I still can't fly (with 30 mil SP).



And this is sadly where PLEX for SP would be brilliantly evil. Oh, if I buy a PLEX I can get Cruiser V to fly that Tengu. Oh, a PLEX to fly Logistics would be nice. And on and on.

Although if all the high SP players who insist that SP isn't important are telling the truth, who cares if someone bought the SP to fly that logistics ship? Heck, imagine a new player opens Daddy's wallet to buy 100m SP and a Titan with cash. Imagine how delicious the tears would be when you gank him.

Dongster
Posted - 2011.06.25 20:57:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Nikita Keriget


And this is sadly where PLEX for SP would be brilliantly evil. Oh, if I buy a PLEX I can get Cruiser V to fly that Tengu. Oh, a PLEX to fly Logistics would be nice. And on and on.

Although if all the high SP players who insist that SP isn't important are telling the truth, who cares if someone bought the SP to fly that logistics ship? Heck, imagine a new player opens Daddy's wallet to buy 100m SP and a Titan with cash. Imagine how delicious the tears would be when you gank him.


Imagine how all the ongoing warfare would suddenly be dominated by "big budget" players/groups/alliances.

Hmm, sounds kinda familiar, i wonder why...
From real life!?
Nah, money doesn't make the world go round anyways.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2011.06.25 21:01:00 - [14]
 

Want to spend ISK to get a lot of SP? Buy a 93M SP character!

Nikita Keriget
Posted - 2011.06.25 21:31:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Dongster
Originally by: Nikita Keriget


And this is sadly where PLEX for SP would be brilliantly evil. Oh, if I buy a PLEX I can get Cruiser V to fly that Tengu. Oh, a PLEX to fly Logistics would be nice. And on and on.

Although if all the high SP players who insist that SP isn't important are telling the truth, who cares if someone bought the SP to fly that logistics ship? Heck, imagine a new player opens Daddy's wallet to buy 100m SP and a Titan with cash. Imagine how delicious the tears would be when you gank him.


Imagine how all the ongoing warfare would suddenly be dominated by "big budget" players/groups/alliances.

Hmm, sounds kinda familiar, i wonder why...
From real life!?
Nah, money doesn't make the world go round anyways.



Doesn't sound different than currently.

Tea Ester Elliot
Posted - 2011.06.25 21:31:00 - [16]
 

Second-hand Estel. ugh

Never!

Nikita Keriget
Posted - 2011.06.25 21:33:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Estel Arador
Want to spend ISK to get a lot of SP? Buy a 93M SP character!


I like my character name and persona. It kind of annoys me that somebody who has no connection to their character can just buy a character, but if you are attached to your character that option isn't available. Heck, I'd be happy with being able to buy a character and merge their skills into mine. Actually, I really like that idea!

Estel Arador
Posted - 2011.06.25 21:35:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Nikita Keriget
Originally by: Estel Arador
Want to spend ISK to get a lot of SP? Buy a 93M SP character!


I like my character name and persona.


It's only 9 months ago that I categorically refused to sell my character for exactly that reason - how times have changed.

Tyler Tsero
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:48:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Tyler Tsero on 25/06/2011 23:48:53
Being honest, let the little noobs be able to get a perfect carrier, The legit players that really know how to fly them will screw all the noobs over. remember a fleet of 300+ frigs can kill a titian Laughing SO if ccp does this, they'll make some good Real life isk for a month or 2, but after a noob pays 100+ dollars, and keep losing it, they'll end up quitting... So CCP Make the MT's For VANITY Items only, and save yourself from the problems from later on down the road. Stop being so money greedy. You still maybe able to save eve online, IF your smart enough to come out and do a formal apology to everyone, and announce that MT's are for VANITY items only (Vanity meaning clothing, and that vanity items will not grant a unfair advantage to someone) Look at Farmville made by zynga, you can pay real money to get certain rare animals, but they can't breed or anything, there just there for looks, Zynga seems to make alot of money too ugh...

CCP doesn't realize that All of us players (new and old) have made the game what it is today, without us, eve wouldn't be here. CCP Open your eyes, your whole entire gaming community is telling you something.

You'd think CCP would be professional about all this, but they seem to run and hide, and refuse to answer anything. This company imo is NOT professional and has NO idea what they are doing, They just want money, Money corrupts people.


CCP & Dev Teams- Step back and Think, look at EVERYTHING. Really? if you can allready afford 1000$ pairs of jeans, you make more then Most (if not all) the players of eve. Be glad what you have, before you throw it all away because you want more money. You're doing nothing but digging a grave site for eve online, if you don't wake up and open your eyes, you may not be able to buy those 1000$ pairs of jeans one day, you maybe wearing a cardboard box for jeans... So please get your act together, get your heads out of your asses!

For all players, Stick through it, maybe CCP will open their eyes. As for me, I will remain to play, i will be a legit player. Hope to see you all flying around! 0/ Fly safe!Wink

Nikita Keriget
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:48:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Tyler Tsero
Edited by: Tyler Tsero on 25/06/2011 23:48:53
Being honest, let the little noobs be able to get a perfect carrier, The legit players that really know how to fly them will screw all the noobs over. remember a fleet of 300+ frigs can kill a titian Laughing SO if ccp does this, they'll make some good Real life isk for a month or 2, but after a noob pays 100+ dollars, and keep losing it, they'll end up quitting...


Actually, I think CCP would be perfectly fine with somebody spending thousands of dollars, losing their ship and then ragequitting.

Helena Ashcroft
Posted - 2011.06.26 04:31:00 - [21]
 

I'm not at all convinced they'd crap on the character bazaar to put an sp vendor in the NeX. They might sell a mega-expensive implant set, but even that is a far cry from buying millions of sp front-loaded.

Nikita Keriget
Posted - 2011.06.26 05:21:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Helena Ashcroft
I'm not at all convinced they'd crap on the character bazaar to put an sp vendor in the NeX. They might sell a mega-expensive implant set, but even that is a far cry from buying millions of sp front-loaded.


They could go about it a couple ways that wouldn't destroy the character bazaar, and might even boost it. Say there was a way to move SP from an existing character to another one, such as:

- Merge skills
- SP from one character converts to unallocated SP on the other character at a 50% conversion rate.

If they implemented either of those options I'd go out and buy a 20-30m SP character and merge in it's SP to my own, whereas I'm not using the bazaar as it stands. This approach doesn't magically spawn SP out of nowhere nor does it devalue gained SP - in fact with the increased demand from people like me it makes accumulated SP that much more valuable.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.06.26 08:28:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Nikita Keriget
They could go about it a couple ways that wouldn't destroy the character bazaar, and might even boost it. Say there was a way to move SP from an existing character to another one, such as:

- Merge skills
- SP from one character converts to unallocated SP on the other character at a 50% conversion rate.

If they implemented either of those options I'd go out and buy a 20-30m SP character and merge in it's SP to my own, whereas I'm not using the bazaar as it stands. This approach doesn't magically spawn SP out of nowhere nor does it devalue gained SP - in fact with the increased demand from people like me it makes accumulated SP that much more valuable.

Exactly. I've also looked at a few scenarios:

* only allow skills to be transferred 1-on-1, not "raw" SP. I'd get my alt's Minmatar Cruiser V, Battleship, all her projectile turret skills and such;
* (your idea) 50% "waste" on SP transfers;
* a max of 10 million SP per transfer;
* transfer the SP in "types" e.g. "int/mem SP", "per/wil SP" and such ..

Anything that's better than nothing wil do!

Originally by: Tyler Tsero
Being honest, let the little noobs be able to get a perfect carrier, The legit players that really know how to fly them will screw all the noobs over. remember a fleet of 300+ frigs can kill a titian ..

I'm all for it. Very Happy

.. let's not forget there's also quite a few not-so-noobs that could use more SP ..

Mabah Vin
Posted - 2011.06.26 16:02:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Mabah Vin on 26/06/2011 16:12:22
Originally by: Tyler Tsero
Edited by: Tyler Tsero on 25/06/2011 23:48:53
Being honest, let the little noobs be able to get a perfect carrier, The legit players that really know how to fly them will screw all the noobs over. remember a fleet of 300+ frigs can kill a titian Laughing SO if ccp does this, they'll make some good Real life isk for a month or 2, but after a noob pays 100+ dollars, and keep losing it, they'll end up quitting...
You'd think CCP would be professional about all this, but they seem to run and hide, and refuse to answer anything. This company imo is NOT professional and has NO idea what they are doing, They just want money, Money corrupts people.

0/ Fly safe!Wink


Ok..let's be painfully honest.

I'm kind of tired of these blasts against 'noobs'.
You were a 'noob'..
Everybody here was a 'noob'.

Yes that's right, in the beginning clueless and getting waxed by some guy with 3 mil SP in a frigate.

That being said..

The 'ego's of skill points' are nothing more than paying CCP every month by check or credit card the $14.99 a month.

So, it's not skill'..it's 'time'..

'Skill' has nothing to do with it.

Someones weapons are more powerful not based on 'skill' of truly targeting, tracking and firing.

It's based on putting a 'skill' in one's 'charactor sheet' and waiting for the time to accrue.

And by the way, the 'noob' is paying his/her $14.99 a month too.

Frankly, the 'skill point' system should be done away with completely because it has nothng to do with true 'skill'.

Weapons, ships and systems should be made equal according to model and type and to what one can afford.

And if the 'noob' loses his shiney new carrier after that, then it is truly based on his true 'skill' at flying and targeting, not putting 'time' in a charactor sheet.

On the other hand, the 'noob' might get lucky and blast the 'old' players ship into salvage.

That's true PVP based on 'skill'..not 'time'' or how many payments one made to CCP to rack up 'time' in the charactor sheet..

I may also add, some of us have real lives with careers, children and other pursuits. and can't spend months on a computer trying to accrue 'skill points'..(or hours a day on a computer.)

That's another honest reality..

So if CCP wants to sell 'skill point' go for it.

But as I said earliar, the whole 'skill point' system should be done away with and let the PVP fall as it may based on 'true' skill at flying.

Not 'time' in a charactor sheet.





Joyana Dakota
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:42:00 - [25]
 

At this point, for new players, it's so hard to keep up with the progression others have made. I can never ever get close to anyone who's played longer then me and I will never be able to progress at the same rate.

If you look at other MMO's this isn't the case and CCP wants to attract new players but players will leave as soon as they discover they can never reach that point where they actually stand a good chance at rolling with the big dogs and I for one, would really want to get a point where I can mean something in a big alliance.

I understand where the skill point selling discussion comes from, I would even consider buying skill points to get me upto the level where I can join a good corp and mean something and not be the newbee all the time, because once you're behind, you will always be behind the player who's been playing it longer. I understand, I can get behind the thinking of it but I also understand the discussion brought by the older veterans in this game.

I have a real problem with skills that take more then a week to train and if I could speed that up a little by adding skill points that would make it a little bit easier. It still doesn't change what you need to learn as a player when it comes to actual use of those skills. You can skill up ingame but it still doesn't give you the knowledge and speed up learning curve.

It's a hot topic for sure but if new players want to stick with this game, they will have to do something to speed skill training up.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:03:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 26/06/2011 20:05:25
Originally by: Mabah Vin
Ok..let's be painfully honest.

I'm kind of tired of these blasts against 'noobs'. You were a 'noob'.. Everybody here was a 'noob'. Yes that's right, in the beginning clueless and getting waxed by some guy with 3 mil SP in a frigate.
That being said..

The 'ego's of skill points' are nothing more than paying CCP every month by check or credit card the $14.99 a month. So, it's not skill'..it's 'time'.. Skill' has nothing to do with it. Someone's weapons are more powerful not based on 'skill' of truly targeting, tracking and firing. It's based on putting a 'skill' in one's 'charactor sheet' and waiting for the time to accrue. And by the way, the 'noob' is paying his/her $14.99 a month too.

Frankly, the 'skill point' system should be done away with completely because it has nothing to do with true 'skill'. Weapons, ships and systems should be made equal according to model and type and to what one can afford. And if the 'noob' loses his shiny new carrier after that, then it is truly based on his true 'skill' at flying and targeting, not putting 'time' in a character sheet. On the other hand, the 'noob' might get lucky and blast the 'old' players ship into salvage.

That's true PVP based on 'skill'.. not 'time' or how many payments one made to CCP to rack up 'time' in the charactor sheet.. I may also add, some of us have real lives with careers, children and other pursuits. and can't spend months on a computer trying to accrue 'skill points'..(or hours a day on a computer.) That's another honest reality .. So if CCP wants to sell 'skill point' go for it.

But as I said earlier, the whole 'skill point' system should be done away with and let the PVP fall as it may based on 'true' skill at flying. Not 'time' in a character sheet.

Very well said, I couldn't agree more!!!! Very Happy

Two things stand in the way:
1. Self-entitled vets who think they deserve to have an everlasting advantage because "they payed more months subscription";
2. CCP who's afraid that the game's content alone isn't good enough to keep people playing.

Mabah Vin
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:07:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Mabah Vin on 26/06/2011 20:22:57
Edited by: Mabah Vin on 26/06/2011 20:22:19
Edited by: Mabah Vin on 26/06/2011 20:08:42
Originally by: Joyana Dakota
At this point, for new players, it's so hard to keep up with the progression others have made. I can never ever get close to anyone who's played longer then me and I will never be able to progress at the same rate.

If you look at other MMO's this isn't the case and CCP wants to attract new players but players will leave as soon as they discover they can never reach that point where they actually stand a good chance at rolling with the big dogs and I for one, would really want to get a point where I can mean something in a big alliance.

I understand where the skill point selling discussion comes from, I would even consider buying skill points to get me upto the level where I can join a good corp and mean something and not be the newbee all the time, because once you're behind, you will always be behind the player who's been playing it longer. I understand, I can get behind the thinking of it but I also understand the discussion brought by the older veterans in this game.



I've been playing games since the 8086..(Tells you how old I am. : P)

Games have 'evolved' to where the player wants to be 'competative' based on his/her own 'skill'.

That is, the player's own skill decides the outcome of the game.

EVE has a great concept, but has not evolved in this sense as other games.

There is no true 'skill' of the player in the EVE universe, but is based on 'time'.

This makes the concept of 'PVP' into 'PVT' 'Player vs Time' for example..

The 'competative' universe is not there unless one just wishes to compete in 'time'.

I think many new players, although interested in the concept of the EVE universe, find themselves as you, unable to compete on any real level.

I think many move on to games where the 'person', not 'time' is the deciding factor based on his/her own skills aquired at 'practice' and playing the game.

Losing a ship for example, to another player, based on one's own skills can be corrected by improving one's personal skills at piloting, targeting etc.

But in the EVE universe, that is not possiable without 'time'.
Many of the skills of which, take weeks or even months to properly aquire in a 'point' system.

Even then, it is not the 'pilots skills' flying, but a 'point' system' based on time.

As i said, I think EVE has a great concept but has not moved ahead in regard to players.

Most want a more personal skill approach to gaming where they are the deciding factor based on their own skills.

This makes it more realistic and more competative for everyone.

Joyana Dakota
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:26:00 - [28]
 

I've played WoW and one thing that makes WoW so bleeding boring is that in one of my breaks that lasted for atleast 6 months, my guild progressed in raids and endgame content, when I got back, it took me a week to get back to their level... Ding... I'm bored again... This is ofcourse perfect for new players because they will get the chance to grow into the same content and hang with the big boys, as it should be.

Right now, because this game is running for so long, I will never be able to fight a vet pilot in PvP, unless we fly the same ship, the same modules, and even then, his skills will top mine simply because he has spend more time in the game For example, his Sharpshooter level is 5, mine is 3, he wins... it's a simple example but you get the point.

Dorian Wylde
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:28:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: ALEX THAGREAT
it would **** me off so bad if they started selling game progression. that defeats the point.


Which is why it will never happen.

CCP please lock these idiotic threads. Or ban the people making them.

Mabah Vin
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:05:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Mabah Vin on 26/06/2011 23:06:09
Originally by: Dorian Wylde
Originally by: ALEX THAGREAT
it would **** me off so bad if they started selling game progression. that defeats the point.


Which is why it will never happen.

CCP please lock these idiotic threads. Or ban the people making them.


Well, I would'nt bet on it..

And, by the way, nothing was said in this thread that was out of line from what I can read.

And I would wager, they all payed their $14.99 this month and have a right to express their opinion.

Have a nice day.



Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only