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Kile Kitmoore
Posted - 2011.06.25 02:53:00 - [1]
 

Pretty simple question.

Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers
Posted - 2011.06.25 03:28:00 - [2]
 

Hillmar stated that all that mattered to him was actions, not words.

Remaining on the CSM is agreeing with him.

Lea Hombre
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:07:00 - [3]
 

it would be pretty rad if the CSM issued a statement that not only were they all resigning, they were unsubscribing and encouraging other players to do the same

(and no, you cannot "haz my stuffs" i'm taking my rorqual down with me sucka)

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.06.25 10:58:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Kile Kitmoore
Pretty simple question.

Pretty simple answer: no.

Resigning is in nearly all cases a pretty weak, ineffective way of protesting, performed by people who deem themselves so important that they think their ragequitting will change anything.

Nin Kimrov
Minmatar
Kenzi Arms and Munitions
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:56:00 - [5]
 

I think they should, because yes actions would speak more than words, and from the leaks..CSM can't do much about it.

hears
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:23:00 - [6]
 

yes they should all step down

but that will not happen as at least "mittani" will stay to get personal benefits for his brownnosing

GreenSeed
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:55:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: GreenSeed on 25/06/2011 15:55:36
i think it would be pretty pointless, regardless if you like it or not, the CSM are few and much more organized than the rest of the comunity. even when the dialogue with CCP at this point seems broken they can still work as a focal point for the rest of us as a comunity.

i think in moments like theese is when CSMs should be more active than ever, not just in the closed CSM board but here on the trenches. since the first thing that will die on this game if they take on the direction they want, will be the comunity organization.

Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:38:00 - [8]
 

CSM quitting would be a bad idea, at least being around they can put pressure on CCP. Quitting will just let them go and do ANYTHING they want.

KoffeeKup
Caldari
Gh0st Hunters
Sspectre
Posted - 2011.06.25 18:59:00 - [9]
 

They need to stay and they need to work with CCP so that the NeX is fixed and so that I can play Eve. This new patch overheats my laptop.

Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.25 20:32:00 - [10]
 

Quit? We're balls deep in fighting this **** right now.

maniac69uk
Mining Company
Posted - 2011.06.25 20:37:00 - [11]
 

If CCP consulted the CSM about microcontractions then fair enough, as long as they listened to the csm.

But rumour is they didnt ask the csm and went ahead anyway so the CSM may as well quit since CCP have proved they don't respect the players.

I dont want microtransactions.... hell I didnt want walking in stations either... but ccp do what the hell they want it appears

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.25 20:37:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Lea Hombre
it would be pretty rad if the CSM issued a statement that not only were they all resigning, they were unsubscribing and encouraging other players to do the same

(and no, you cannot "haz my stuffs" i'm taking my rorqual down with me sucka)


'rad' if you want eve online to failure cascade and become the next SWG, perhaps


Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.06.25 21:11:00 - [13]
 

We've been posting, reading, talking continuously for the past 2 days to try and get everything sorted.

I'll be quitting when there's no room for dialog anymore. As bleak as things may be, CCP and the CSM *ARE* talking to one another.

And yes, the progress hasn't been what it should have been *YET*.

I'll keep you posted. ( http://meissaanunthiel.blogspot.com. There's a link to Seleene's blog and Robert's blog in there somewhere as well).


Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.25 21:15:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: maniac69uk
If CCP consulted the CSM about microcontractions then fair enough, as long as they listened to the csm.

But rumour is they didnt ask the csm and went ahead anyway so the CSM may as well quit since CCP have proved they don't respect the players.

I dont want microtransactions.... hell I didnt want walking in stations either... but ccp do what the hell they want it appears




I don't support MT for anything other than cosmetic. The pricing on current items are bad but I don't care if you want to spend a billion dollars USD (around 45$ canadian) to make your avatar look different. I don't care. I'll laugh at you, we all will, but that's your deal and this falls firmly into the "whatevs" camp.

We do not support MT for things that matter. No gold ammo for scorpions, no buying ships that are anything other than reskins (must have original ship to trade in, we don't want producers hosed), we don't support any of that because it influences the competitive nature of the game. We were never told about any plans for this type of MT and we were assured that this wasn't going to be the direction things go.

Pay for premium play works well on games where you don't have to pay a subscription fee already (world of tanks comes to mind) but it just adds another mechanism where you feel you have to pay more in order to compete on a game you already pay for. I don't approve of this. We're going to fight to make sure this is NEVER the future of this game.

I don't think anybody really cares about pay for pretty, everybody understands that it's meaningless, but people do have valid concerns that this merely opens the door and prepares the userbase to be comfortable with MT in general so potentially this dynamic might change. The lack of clear assurances in light of all of these leaks is making me concerned (politicalspeak for really ****ing ****ed off).

So for now stand by. We're not letting this one go.

Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens
Posted - 2011.06.25 22:01:00 - [15]
 

The CSM quitting would probably be counterproductive. Even if CCP is trying to shut them out, they theoretically have more access to somone important than we do, and they are out representation with the devs. If they quit, who is left to represent us? What we need is for them to be figting tooth and nail to get CCP to hear our views, and what we as players need to do is be backing them up.

Kile Kitmoore
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:10:00 - [16]
 

First of all thanks to CSM for fighting the good fight, good luck.

I only posed the "Should they quit" question after listening to the EVE Radio interviews, where it became pretty clear that at this time CCP does not want your advice or share it's MT vision. They "potentially" have a much broader strategy of what they want to accomplish in their new store. If you are in talks with CCP is it possible to at least have an open letter from the CSM to the community that is what you are doing and outline your goals?

I agree wholeheartedly with Vile rat regarding MT/vanity items and pricing. I care not one bit at the price of the monocles. However, vanity can mean a lot of things. MT for engine trails? How about cyno effects? How about the other three faction CQs when completed being only available via MT. I think those are vanity, don't you? Does CSM's "vanity only" mean all vanity?

Myself, I really have only two issues.

1. Will MT ever be used outside vanity? Will people ever buy weapons, boosters or other advantages in the Noble Exchange? Will actual playable content ever be locked in the Noble Exchange, such as a pilots license to enter some other part of space or MT a license to own a shop in a station?

2. Station Hanger, reading through the devblogs I think I have my answer, which is gone forever. I just want to know for sure that this is it, there is absolutely no way we will ever get the hanger view back in it's original form with an Exit To Station option.

I don't want anyone to quit, especially CSM. I would not mind understanding a bit more where the CSM"s line is drawn with CCP. Again, good luck in your deliberations.

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:45:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Kile Kitmoore
First of all thanks to CSM for fighting the good fight, good luck.

I only posed the "Should they quit" question after listening to the EVE Radio interviews, where it became pretty clear that at this time CCP does not want your advice or share it's MT vision. They "potentially" have a much broader strategy of what they want to accomplish in their new store. If you are in talks with CCP is it possible to at least have an open letter from the CSM to the community that is what you are doing and outline your goals?

I agree wholeheartedly with Vile rat regarding MT/vanity items and pricing. I care not one bit at the price of the monocles. However, vanity can mean a lot of things. MT for engine trails? How about cyno effects? How about the other three faction CQs when completed being only available via MT. I think those are vanity, don't you? Does CSM's "vanity only" mean all vanity?

Myself, I really have only two issues.

1. Will MT ever be used outside vanity? Will people ever buy weapons, boosters or other advantages in the Noble Exchange? Will actual playable content ever be locked in the Noble Exchange, such as a pilots license to enter some other part of space or MT a license to own a shop in a station?

2. Station Hanger, reading through the devblogs I think I have my answer, which is gone forever. I just want to know for sure that this is it, there is absolutely no way we will ever get the hanger view back in it's original form with an Exit To Station option.

I don't want anyone to quit, especially CSM. I would not mind understanding a bit more where the CSM"s line is drawn with CCP. Again, good luck in your deliberations.



My personal stance is very clear:
1) I don't want gold ammo, ships for $, +10% damage implants or any other form of "pay2win". I'm fine with t-shirts, ship paint jobs, corp logos on ships & outposts, that kind of non competitive thing. I was CCP to stick with that stance.

2) I want NeX price to be altered, ideally between the $2 and $5 price range for the vast majority of the items so that everyone can participate, as opposed to the to 10% richest plebs. I don't mind $150 monocles as long as everyone can participate to a significant degree.

3) I want commitment that the option not to load CQ stay in place until such time as the performance for docking & loading station environment becomes acceptable (read: 20 seconds on my machine, subjective criteria, I know :p)

4) I want clarifications on the $99 program so that fansites are not milked if they manage to recoup even the slightest bit of their cost through ads.

Those are the things I want right now.
I'm *NOT* going to help CCP sugarcoat things to make swallowing the pill easier. A few CSM members have spent the last 48 hours reading, posting, talking to CCP and basically doing nothing but serving as a bridge between everyone and CCP.

Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr
Indicium Technologies
Hephaestus Forge Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:24:00 - [18]
 

To the CSM,

Thank you for reassuring me that you guys are taking the fight to CCP on this, but what the player base really need is information and reassurance. Mittens, we need another fireside chat m8 where you lay out the CSM's policy and what's been going on.

Kile Kitmoore
Posted - 2011.06.26 01:07:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Kile Kitmoore
First of all thanks to CSM for fighting the good fight, good luck.

I only posed the "Should they quit" question after listening to the EVE Radio interviews, where it became pretty clear that at this time CCP does not want your advice or share it's MT vision. They "potentially" have a much broader strategy of what they want to accomplish in their new store. If you are in talks with CCP is it possible to at least have an open letter from the CSM to the community that is what you are doing and outline your goals?

I agree wholeheartedly with Vile rat regarding MT/vanity items and pricing. I care not one bit at the price of the monocles. However, vanity can mean a lot of things. MT for engine trails? How about cyno effects? How about the other three faction CQs when completed being only available via MT. I think those are vanity, don't you? Does CSM's "vanity only" mean all vanity?

Myself, I really have only two issues.

1. Will MT ever be used outside vanity? Will people ever buy weapons, boosters or other advantages in the Noble Exchange? Will actual playable content ever be locked in the Noble Exchange, such as a pilots license to enter some other part of space or MT a license to own a shop in a station?

2. Station Hanger, reading through the devblogs I think I have my answer, which is gone forever. I just want to know for sure that this is it, there is absolutely no way we will ever get the hanger view back in it's original form with an Exit To Station option.

I don't want anyone to quit, especially CSM. I would not mind understanding a bit more where the CSM"s line is drawn with CCP. Again, good luck in your deliberations.



My personal stance is very clear:
1) I don't want gold ammo, ships for $, +10% damage implants or any other form of "pay2win". I'm fine with t-shirts, ship paint jobs, corp logos on ships & outposts, that kind of non competitive thing. I was CCP to stick with that stance.

2) I want NeX price to be altered, ideally between the $2 and $5 price range for the vast majority of the items so that everyone can participate, as opposed to the to 10% richest plebs. I don't mind $150 monocles as long as everyone can participate to a significant degree.

3) I want commitment that the option not to load CQ stay in place until such time as the performance for docking & loading station environment becomes acceptable (read: 20 seconds on my machine, subjective criteria, I know :p)

4) I want clarifications on the $99 program so that fansites are not milked if they manage to recoup even the slightest bit of their cost through ads.

Those are the things I want right now.
I'm *NOT* going to help CCP sugarcoat things to make swallowing the pill easier. A few CSM members have spent the last 48 hours reading, posting, talking to CCP and basically doing nothing but serving as a bridge between everyone and CCP.


Awesome, thanks Meissa.

Elrica bloodbane
Posted - 2011.06.26 14:45:00 - [20]
 

CORPORATE
SH*T
MANAGEMENT

Evil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad

Shootin' Star
The Fancy Hats Corporation
Free Worlds Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.26 17:39:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Shootin'' Star on 26/06/2011 17:39:46
Proposal not supported.

Thanks to all CSMs, who have been standing up and attempting to deal with this issue in a manner fully consistent with what the (apparently) far majority of your constituency is saying. This is a great credit. OTOH, quitting as suggested - unless it is in the (eventual) context of an overwhelmingly massive shuttering of accounts in face of total intransigence - can only be disenfranchising to your constituency and counterproductive to ensuring CCP's understanding of this issue. That such might not matter, anyway, is a topic for separate debate.

Bear in mind, since CCP has abdicated its responsibilities to properly communicate to and with us, the CSM are our foremost hope in this issue. They are the only ones at this point who may be able to deliver in a moderate and neutral manner what each side - CCP's and the player community's - needs to know to deal with these potentially game- and community-breaking issues in a thoughtful, reasoned and reasonable manner - instead of one driven by either timid and ongoing silence coupled with bursts of contemptuous hubris from one side, or unchecked emotion and irrational fear of the unknown on the other.

I look forward with strained but still intact patience to your follow-up reports, and hope that some measure of sense can be obtained from CCP.

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:31:00 - [22]
 

ITT:
  1. The mob: the CSM should quit! *rabblerabblerabble*

  2. The CSM: we won't quit!

  3. The mob: the CSM shouldn't quit *rabblerabblerabble*

Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
Posted - 2011.06.27 08:24:00 - [23]
 

They should not quit. What an insane idea.

This is the moment they can make CCP understand that they need CSM, as well as showing us that they can make a difference. I had pretty much ignored CSM as a PR stunt up until now, however... now there is an opportunity to make CSM into what it should be.

Good luck CSM :)

StainLessStealRat
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.27 11:31:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: StainLessStealRat on 27/06/2011 11:35:29
If the CSM quite nothing would change one iota.

Not saying the CSM Going will change any thing though.


Kirkland Langue
Posted - 2011.06.27 13:11:00 - [25]
 

CSM obviously shouldn't quit before their trip to CCPland. But, if it becomes apparent that CCP is going to push through regardless of CSM input, then the entire CSM resigning simultaneously could have an impact.

Maybe not the desired impact, but it would have one. (likely it would spawn another round of articles - possibly expanding to news organizations outside of the gaming arena)

If I were on the CSM, I'd probably resign. The argument about possibly being able to change things from within more than from without doesn't actually mean anything if you can't change what's truly important. (i.e. all the talk about theoretically being able to change game mechanics pales next to being impotent about the creation of a new currency in the game)

Extreme
Eye of God
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2011.06.27 16:06:00 - [26]
 

10 Go to Iceland
20 Have emergency summit with CCP
30 Go home, write minutes
40 Have NDA check by CCP
50 * PRESS PLAY ON TAPE *
60 GOTO 10

RUN

Spaceship Persona Ogeko
Posted - 2011.06.27 18:57:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Spaceship Persona Ogeko on 27/06/2011 18:57:43
It would appear you are all on drugs.

pay2win was introduced with PLEX. I am astonished that such a fuss is being kicked up when we all already allowed Credit Card PvP into the game a long time ago.

RMT, better CCP get the money yada yada yada *yawn*

I do indeed support the fact that in a store something should not be magically spawned. I do indeed understand that when you sell a PLEX you get isk someone, somewhere, has earned.

All of these arguments make sense. Truly they do.

What does not make sense is that everyone is raging about paying Real Life Money in order to get an ingame advantage. I feel like I am taking Crazy Pills
(I didn't actually invent the piano key necktie though I wish I had)

ninja edit. CSM should not quit over an issue that is confusing enough for me to seek out Zoolander clips.


 

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