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blankseplocked Why the Eve community is not intelligent.
 
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Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:31:00 - [31]
 

I agree with the op. Well said sir. With only a slight modification. I think it's just as much a mistake to describe the eve community as a whole based on the behavior of the last 2 days as it is a mistake for them to claim to be "the community" that won't stand for X, Y, or Z.

My guess is that for each of the maybe 4,000 actually angry people there are posting here and mucking up trade hubs, there are roughly 20 people who are completely calm and don't care about the situation.

That's right. Every single flaming idiot post on these forums is matched by 20 people who don't agree with you. That's why ccp isn't backing down, and I applaud them for sticking to their plans. I really wish that those of you who are claiming to quit really would quit.

Your absence would make eve just that much better.

Croniac
Merlin Reach
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:32:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Croniac on 24/06/2011 22:33:02
Gotta admit M14D, you might have a point...

You called the whole dang community STUPID and the only one who disagreed with you is ME...

Everyone else comes in, nods, freely admits they are stupid and pours praise on you.

I've been doing it wrong for so many years, but now I see the light. Only myself and M14D are smart I guess... Him for saying you're stupid, and me for disagreeing..

The rest of you filled in the blanks as he expected you to. Nicely done.

I'll be more belittling in my future posts to gain the respect of the dumb.

Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:34:00 - [33]
 

How can you comment on, let alone understand, anything the OP wrote, when you didn't even comprehend what the OP wrote.

Originally by: Serpent Kamri
Your points would be completely valid, but they don't work in a situation like this. The community has made it crystal clear that no MTs for gameplay items will be tolerated in any extent. Yes, CCP is a company that wants to make money, but money comes from people and people don't want to give you their money if they're ****ed off and you don't answer their concerns. It's a delicate balance between price and value where you can't ask 80 dollars for pixels. Even WoW's highly controversial "celestial pony" was 20 to 25ish IIRC and you could ****ing fly that thing. We only get a monocle that no one will see besides us for God knows how long.

I do understand the points you're making and I'm not so naive to think CCP are pink and cuddly rabbits who make EVE because they love every single one of us so very much, but this...mess...is magnitudes worse than what EA does and that is quite an achievement.



Your very first line clearly indicates that you did not comprehend anything the OP wrote.
The OP pointed out, very clearly, that just because CCP had a DISCUSSION/ DEBATE about a topic, that it doesn't mean they will do what they were DISCUSSING/ DEBATING. The very fist thing you respjnd with is, "we won't accept MT for gameplay items." Just because they talked about it doesn't mean they'll do it, and you have no proof that they indend to do it.

But guess what, there will be gameplay items on the NEX. They'll tie into Dust, because everything in dust will require being purchased through MT. It's not far off to assume that we'll make things that will get sold to Dust players, that they'll have to buy through some sort of AUR to ISK conversion.

Here's another clue. You don't buy anything on the NEX with AUR, you buy it with PlEX. PLEX converted to AUR is still PLEX. If there is no sub fee in Dust, then there's no use for PLEX in Dust, that means they need another currency swithc, and they need that switch to tie into both games, hence AUR.

Elienore
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:36:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Croniac
Edited by: Croniac on 24/06/2011 22:33:02
Gotta admit M14D, you might have a point...

You called the whole dang community STUPID and the only one who disagreed with you is ME...

Everyone else comes in, nods, freely admits they are stupid and pours praise on you.

I've been doing it wrong for so many years, but now I see the light. Only myself and M14D are smart I guess... Him for saying you're stupid, and me for disagreeing..

The rest of you filled in the blanks as he expected you to. Nicely done.

I'll be more belittling in my future posts to gain the respect of the dumb.


But you've said nothing but "I don't like the way you post" in this thread :l

Also, I've been disliking the whole rage-thing the past few days from pretty much day 1. OPs opinion coincide with mine, as such I approve of his post. Besides, it's not like most of the GD population is making itself look like it got any kind of sensibility at the moment.

Vagizzle Schrimshank
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:38:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: M14D
Stuff....

The answer is: No, I simply know the difference between actually having something up me and being reamed by a non-existent object. The latter being the case here today.


Whilst I'm sure CQ looks amazing and lots of people such as yourself will j1zz all over it, I personally feel I've been reamed by a the non-existent make CQ optional button.


NO MEANS NO!

Caelestis Starcaller
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:39:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Croniac
Edited by: Croniac on 24/06/2011 22:08:12
As a general rule, Mr. M14D, when you are calling 400,000 people stupid, you should make sure you don't make up a word like...

"phenomenom"

I'm pretty sure even an idiot like me knows that you meant phenomena, which is often improperly used as 'Phenomenon', but Phenonemom? Isn't that the noise Cookie Monster makes?

Your post was making sense right up till that point, which is I assume when the vodka landed.


Hes talking about the protesters not everyone in eve. There are more then enough that are not stupid enough to go shoot at a monument and lock down the trading hub for everyone else and go whine on the forums like its one big flame war.

He actually really does know how things are going in real life.

My personal oppinion is i love the MT idea as it completely takes out the power position the freakin botters and RMTers and shifts that effort into CCP instead so we can have more improved features in the future instead of seeing DRF and pals take the whole of null sec with fleet consistent of only titans and supercaps as if they where frigates.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:41:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: M14D
Why the Eve community is not intelligent.

True, if we were really intelligent we'd find better and more useful ways to waste our time than silly interwebs games.

The DarkRaven
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:41:00 - [38]
 

I agree to the OP view of this. CCP is currently brainstorming and have not thus far made any decisions as far as I can see. To cry and throw a tantrum over something that's not a problem yet because it's been mentioned somewhere is not going to create anything but flamewars.
The whining about prices for clothes on a ingame characters just makes me amused, why wouldn't some items be so expensive that not everybody can buy it? Hell, there are lots of people who buy luxury goods in real life to show of so why not have it in EVE? The mentalite that everyone should be allowed to win, or to afford everything is something that the new generations have come up with and is idiotic. If you are upset about a monocle for 60$ then dont buy it, but something you can afford.
As for the forced improved graphics... Games improve or the die. People will cry as soon as there are changes. Some people will leave, most will stay. As always. The game will go on.

Croniac
Merlin Reach
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:43:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Croniac on 24/06/2011 22:44:54
Originally by: Elienore


But you've said nothing but "I don't like the way you post" in this thread :l

Also, I've been disliking the whole rage-thing the past few days from pretty much day 1. OPs opinion coincide with mine, as such I approve of his post. Besides, it's not like most of the GD population is making itself look like it got any kind of sensibility at the moment.


His post was directly offensive, or should have been, to the entire community... That's my point.

Everything he said after that, for better or worse, was tainted with his disdain for you.

He's right in content that CCP is a corporation, and they are profit centered... They explained these changes poorly, and directed the ire of the community on themselves via lack of foresight, I am 100% behind that part of his post.

But he opens with "You're not intelligent" and the simple reality is that he can't know my intelligence so that remark reflects more strongly on the OP than it does on me, and I would expect most readers to feel the same.

Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:48:00 - [40]
 

Confirming that the only people crying are those who are generating CCP statements out of thin air.

"Because a CCP employee playing the role of a devil's advocate said that he would like the outright buying of ships to exist, even though the attributes of these ships wasn't mentioned and the outright purchase of items was already ditched by CCP after the skinned Scorpion fiasco, we'll soon be able to buy SP!!!!!!1"


Cancel Align NOW
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:50:00 - [41]
 

Dear M14d:

12 months ago CCP raised the possibility of MT including a discussion on whether it would impact game play. The players said No. The players said No so strongly that CCP issued a blog, saying woah hold your horses we ain't gonna do that.

3 Days ago CCP bought MT into the game at a level no one expected and that misaligned to the expectations they had set prior to the release of incarna. Many eve players felt lied to. 1 Day later an internal newsletter is leaked that shows CCP are discussing doing what they said they would not do. many more Eve players feel lied to. Today they release a blog saying "chill winston - it means nothing". Many more eve players feel lied to.

As a player group we put this to bed 12 months ago - there is to be no MT for game affecting features. CCP have bought it back to the fore as a possibility. It is not a possibility.

New eden will burn before the players allow it.

Darkstorm708
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:50:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Darkstorm708 on 24/06/2011 22:51:52
Agree with OP. I would explain why but everyone has already said my reasons. Basically I believe this is an overreaction based on the fact that it was a hypothetical newsletter and the existence of such a thing as playing Devil's Advocate, which people seem to be ignorant of.

M14D
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:51:00 - [43]
 

While I understand the topic title is provocative, I'm able to differentiate between the wise and protest-loving hippies just fine.

The complainers here may only be a very small minority. But their impact now weighs larger than the other group, unfortunately. And that needed addressing.

Elienore
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:54:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Elienore on 24/06/2011 23:04:05
Originally by: Croniac

His post was directly offensive, or should have been, to the entire community... That's my point.

Everything he said after that, for better or worse, was tainted with his disdain for you.

He's right in content that CCP is a corporation, and they are profit centered... They explained these changes poorly, and directed the ire of the community on themselves via lack of foresight, I am 100% behind that part of his post.

But he opens with "You're not intelligent" and the simple reality is that he can't know my intelligence so that remark reflects more strongly on the OP than it does on me, and I would expect most readers to feel the same.


Lemme see... the "Fire CCP Soundwave" thread, now that is offensive and, to put it mildly, highly aggressive witch hunt mentality. Stuff like that tend to put me off.

And as I said earlier, given the current rage/whine/hate, I really don't feel he's too far off the mark. Especially considering how the haters/whiners check off with a "CCP alt/fanboy detected" when you disagree with them (thankfully, not happening so much now). All in all, the overaggressive, idiotic haters/whiners are the ones who are offending people with brains.

People who have well-written arguments that are sensible are okay, but they're kinda a minority since most seem to rampage with the "OMGLOLWTFPWN I HATE CCP" track. If people don't want to be viewed as idiots, then stop behaving like idiots.

EDIT: Typo :)

Mechatronicus Anihilus
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:54:00 - [45]
 


M14D:

CCP is considering growing their income by using micro transactions in Eve. This is not a secret and a large number of players are against it. It is like drugs, gambling, prostitution, etc: quick and easy gratification for fly-by-night type customers, quick and easy profit for the purveyor. It will not improve the play experience or customer loyalty or the quality of the Eve fanbase.

You obviously are somewhat ignorant of the "all voices speaking with one mouth" message CCP got from the CSMs about microtransactions and Eve. Eve players do not want it. So no matter how concrete this subject matter is, the fact that it is being discussed in a "how do we implement this strategically manner" by the CCP executive in charge of Eve's direction is a bit of a slap in the face.

Your patronizing attitude in this statement comes through loud and clear.

Quote:
Unlike the majority of you, CCP is not that stupid, and their final evaluation would include that such an idea cannot ever rely on suitable community support and therefore it would never go through.


How does this weird elitist logic of yours work? A large part of the community is making sure CCP gets that "cannot ever rely on suitable community support" message loud and clear. If they did not, CCP would otherwise implement it.

Seems like all those "stupid" people are ahead of you, and helping make your prediction come true, while you sit there and scoff at them. What a foppish, elitist jackass you are. Were you the first in line to buy the 1.6 billion isk monocle? If you have not yet choked to death on your own *****, it is not too late to remove your head from your anus.

Cancel Align NOW
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:55:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
I agree with the op. Well said sir. With only a slight modification. I think it's just as much a mistake to describe the eve community as a whole based on the behavior of the last 2 days as it is a mistake for them to claim to be "the community" that won't stand for X, Y, or Z.

My guess is that for each of the maybe 4,000 actually angry people there are posting here and mucking up trade hubs, there are roughly 20 people who are completely calm and don't care about the situation.

That's right. Every single flaming idiot post on these forums is matched by 20 people who don't agree with you. That's why ccp isn't backing down, and I applaud them for sticking to their plans. I really wish that those of you who are claiming to quit really would quit.

Your absence would make eve just that much better.


Your logic is poor.
For every angry loud person there are about 1000 silent. The loud angry people are multiple account holders (I am the voice of 6 accounts). There is a much larger angry segment than you predicate.
The silent majority will sit and do nothing until they decide to log off cancel their sub and not log back in. There are very few players who are pre 2007 who understand the importance of this issue and are supportive of CCP.

Who cares about the pre 2007 crews? All the media CCP have released in the last 3 years is predicated on their actions. (CCP care)

Demure Guise
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:56:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: M14D
Edited by: M14D on 24/06/2011 22:13:21
Originally by: Croniac
Edited by: Croniac on 24/06/2011 22:08:12
As a general rule, Mr. M14D, when you are calling 400,000 people stupid, you should make sure you don't make up a word like...

"phenomenom"

I'm pretty sure even an idiot like me knows that you meant phenomena, which is often improperly used as 'Phenomenon', but Phenonemom? Isn't that the noise Cookie Monster makes?

Your post was making sense right up till that point, which is I assume when the vodka landed.


Hello Croniac. I want you to meet a friend, he's called Mr. Pedantic. Also, there's nothing improper about phenomenon.

Quite right. Except he used "phenomenoM" in his OP, showing us he's not as intelligent as he thinks he is.

Devils Errand
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:58:00 - [48]
 

New Coke.

Didn't work.

Croniac
Merlin Reach
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:00:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Croniac on 24/06/2011 23:01:17
Originally by: Elienore


Lemme see... the "Fire CCP Soundwave" thread, now that is offensive and, to put i mildly, highly aggressive witch hunt mentality. Stuff like that tend to put me off.



"Fire CCP Soundwave" wasn't calling Elienore and Croniac stupid, but this thread was. Soundwave is a big boy, if he wants to defend himself or his company he will.

R14D (opps, M14D) didn't say anything to soundwave, he said something to you, and to me. He called us idiots, and you're continuing to defend him in his actions.


Gartanus
Caldari
Gartanus Corp
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:07:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Gartanus on 24/06/2011 23:14:44
I have read and understand the OP's post. Though I do not agree with it I see logic in it. Now with that said, I think he has missed the point about what is really going on. What we have here is a proverbial straw and a broken camels back. This last thing with the MT's is just that. The straw that broke the camels back. It has been many little things over the years that has been done and things that have been ignored by CCP that has finally came back to bite them in the a**. This latest CCP train wreck is the one that pushed so many people over the edge.

And as far as Eve players being stupid....I have not met a stupid player yet. Stupid players do not last very long in Eve and that is a FACT. I have seen some very smart people make some very stupid posts in the forums though.

I really dont have a problem with MT's....yet. I am going to continue to play and see how they work out. Then I may decide to quit or not.

Elienore
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:07:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Croniac

"Fire CCP Soundwave" wasn't calling Elienore and Croniac stupid, but this thread was. Soundwave is a big boy, if he wants to defend himself or his company he will.

R14D (opps, M14D) didn't say anything to soundwave, he said something to you, and to me. He called us idiots, and you're continuing to defend him in his actions.



"Fire Soundwave" is an excellent argument for why he is right. Besides, it's a question of interpretation. How I understood it was, that the ones who are raging about MT and leaked memo, are in fact, overreacting.

Of course if that's not what he means, then all my arguments supporting him are void (they're still valid regarding the sanity of the ragers). Secondly, all these idiots are acting in the name of the "community", so what's to say he's wrong?

Elienore
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:10:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Elienore on 24/06/2011 23:10:33
Forum decide to make me double post, ignore this one ^^

Croniac
Merlin Reach
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:11:00 - [53]
 

Well, at the end of the day, here is what I know...

I'm in game, playing with my corp, and AUR, PLEX, NeX, etc don't impact me either way. My ships still tanks and shoots, bad guys still jump me. Thats the game I play, I'm not playing the "Space Barbie Dress Up" so most of the rest, not actually important to me.

let the ragers quit, have them send their stuff to me plzthx.

Don't insult the community at large when you're trying to single out the rage quitters... Sort of my point.

Tron Flux
Caldari
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:12:00 - [54]
 

Cancel Align,

People are silent because happy people don't gripe about stuff on message boards. There are very likely a small percent of players who have 5 or more accounts. Very small percent.

You think that you're important because you've been playing for a long time. And all of of these scary potential changes worry you because they would allow newer players to compete with your older players. That's all there is to it. Virtually all of the whiners about this stuff are older players who can't stand the thought of having their cookies taken away by noobs who "don't get what EVE is all about."

I have no idea what direction ccp will go other than what has been clearly stated. And I'm fine with it. If the game gets ruined, I'll play another game. No big deal. Why don't you all stop playing Internet superhero and go blow up some ships?

Sheesh, some of you with your total misunderstanding of rights and liberties make me not only embarrassed to play eve but also embarrassed to be a U.S. Citizen. I hope you don't use the same lack of logic when you vote.

Broken Link
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:13:00 - [55]
 

+1 to OP

Laruen Pleides
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:22:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Mechatronicus Anihilus

CCP is considering growing their income by using micro transactions in Eve. This is not a secret and a large number of players are against it. It is like drugs, gambling, prostitution, etc: quick and easy gratification for fly-by-night type customers, quick and easy profit for the purveyor. It will not improve the play experience or customer loyalty or the quality of the Eve fanbase.



In the progression of product management in modern companies, CCP has reached a point in which customer loyalty does not matter. You nailed it exactly with "fly-by-night type customers".

There is a point, dare I say 'critical mass', where the turnover of the player base outgrows the income provided by "loyal" players.

Think of it like a revolving door. A player walks in, pays you a dollar to play a game for an hour. An hour later, he pays you another dollar if he likes the game and wants to continue playing it, if not, he walks out.
As the number of players grow, statistics begin to show that a certain percent of the players only pay once and then are gone in an hour.
As soon as the income gained from that portion of the players exceeds the income provided by the "loyal" players, a company is free to shift the entire system to focus on what those fly-by-nighters want most. Because they now represent the bulk of the company income.

It would appear that EVE has reached that point, and the fly-by-nighters have a different mindset than loyal long term players. They want instant gratification, with no effort, and they are willing to pay whatever it takes to win advantage over anyone else.

I don't know if that is where EVE is headed or not. It would be nice if it wasn't. I returned to EVE earlier this year because I had hoped it was going against the grain of how most MMO's seem to be running.

It would be sad to see things go that way, but CCP is in it to make money, and they are going to go with the best model for the widest customer base. Even if that means turning on those most loyal to them.


M14D
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:24:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Elienore
Originally by: Croniac

"Fire CCP Soundwave" wasn't calling Elienore and Croniac stupid, but this thread was. Soundwave is a big boy, if he wants to defend himself or his company he will.

R14D (opps, M14D) didn't say anything to soundwave, he said something to you, and to me. He called us idiots, and you're continuing to defend him in his actions.



"Fire Soundwave" is an excellent argument for why he is right. Besides, it's a question of interpretation. How I understood it was, that the ones who are raging about MT and leaked memo, are in fact, overreacting.

Of course if that's not what he means, then all my arguments supporting him are void (they're still valid regarding the sanity of the ragers). Secondly, all these idiots are acting in the name of the "community", so what's to say he's wrong?


Of course it was only directed at those actually raging. The points made in my post can only apply to those people. I merely use the EVE community as a whole in mainly the topic title to contest that this community is often perceived as mature and special.

I saw none of that today, though I'm glad to see people here who share similar viewpoints. It makes it all just a little bit less hopeless. But alas, our voice is still lost amongst the hundreds of ragers here.

Tesl
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:26:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Tron Flux
Cancel Align,

People are silent because happy people don't gripe about stuff on message boards. There are very likely a small percent of players who have 5 or more accounts. Very small percent.

You think that you're important because you've been playing for a long time. And all of of these scary potential changes worry you because they would allow newer players to compete with your older players. That's all there is to it. Virtually all of the whiners about this stuff are older players who can't stand the thought of having their cookies taken away by noobs who "don't get what EVE is all about."

I have no idea what direction ccp will go other than what has been clearly stated. And I'm fine with it. If the game gets ruined, I'll play another game. No big deal. Why don't you all stop playing Internet superhero and go blow up some ships?

Sheesh, some of you with your total misunderstanding of rights and liberties make me not only embarrassed to play eve but also embarrassed to be a U.S. Citizen. I hope you don't use the same lack of logic when you vote.


thats what ive been saying since all this crap started, just a bunch of people throwing toys out the pram as they think they have a god given right to say how the company should be ran, and how "their" game is getting ruined by something that isnt even set in stone yet.

Wait till the servers finally close, on that day i will be laughing at all the people who took this game way to seriously.

So many other MMO's have ended up closing down, all the drama that once was is now part of old messageboards gathering dust.

If CCP want to follow sony online entertainment and ruin the game, thats their choice to make. no one elses. you either accept whats on offer or move on.

Thodol
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:26:00 - [59]
 

Your argument is inane. The choices made by CCP are not going to make them additional money. What they are going to do is certainly make them less money and certainly destroy their reputation as a developer. This is unwise for a legion of reasons not the least of which is having two make/break projects in the pipe.

So even using your rather dim witted hurf blurf you agree these choices are reprehensible to the customer base and detrimental to CCP. Yet you somehow think this argument is a defense?!

I think you may want to look into a mirror for some insight into the lack of intelligence of EVE players. For you are one dim bulb.Rolling Eyes

Tesl
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:33:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Tesl on 24/06/2011 23:34:08
Originally by: Thodol
Your argument is inane. The choices made by CCP are not going to make them additional money. What they are going to do is certainly make them less money and certainly destroy their reputation as a developer. This is unwise for a legion of reasons not the least of which is having two make/break projects in the pipe.

So even using your rather dim witted hurf blurf you agree these choices are reprehensible to the customer base and detrimental to CCP. Yet you somehow think this argument is a defense?!

I think you may want to look into a mirror for some insight into the lack of intelligence of EVE players. For you are one dim bulb.Rolling Eyes


copy and pasting the same comment in two diffent threads, how intelligent.

You couldnt come up with something different this time?

CCP havent implimented anything thats detrimental to the game play just yet. they have discussed it in a internal memo that got leaked and people grabbed the pitch forks. please read the thread next time before comment.....i mean copy and pasting.


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