open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Why the Eve community is not intelligent.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7

Author Topic

M14D
Posted - 2011.06.24 21:55:00 - [1]
 

It's a stereotype that's long existed eventhough it's been proven false many a time. Still, there are those who insist on keeping the view with them, that the Eve community is something special. That amongst an average taken number of the population; maturity and intelligence are traits that prosper here, more than they do in other online communities.

But I must conclude; especially after today, that this is a farce.

Before I explain why, I'll go ahead and offer a brief insight into company workings, using a form of written language that may finally reach some people here:

CCP is a company. Companies think about making money. Those thoughts are written down. Often they are discussed. This is done in a debated style. Because that highlights the good- and the bad factors of such a thought. After the debating is done, the thought is placed aside until it may one day be looked at again. A conclusion is then made of the old debate. Will this thought turn live? Maybe. Maybe not. This is how companies work. Everything must be discussed. Even things people no likey. Not even the company itself Just for the sake of discussing it. To test viability.


This, children, is done in many, if not all, companies around the world. Brainstorming sessions that are taken just one step further through having looked carefully into the market and noticing a growing trend of microtransactions. They don't nessecarily like this themselves, but to keep up with competition they investigate this phenomenom for the purpose of knowledge. Because when you study a topic, unpopular as it may be such as the former, you may find a loophole somewhere that deviates from the original, but can count on some actual support. That is why, when you circulate an internal newsletter, you discuss both the merits, disadvantages as well as ALL POSSIBLE OPTIONS THAT COME TO MIND; even if you personally detest it. That's why in the newsletter you will find detailed descriptions of possible microtransactions involving ships, ammo and the like.

Now, what this does not mean is that the plans are concrete and viable

This is where the Eve community mucks up. In such a fashion that it forgets to look at things realistically and instead gets carried away by its own zeal and the berserking effect of the warpaint on their faces. Because you see, the Eve community today tries to assert that the plans, as presented in the newsletter, are both concrete, viable and under heavy consideration.

1. Why they aren't concrete

First of all, it's an internal newsletter. It's meant for open discussion within the company itself for the purpose of evaluating a concept. This is done in similar fashion in other branches. For instance, I'm quite positive the United States government has ran through various sessions where they had to accurately write up a plan to conquer all of China. If it were to happen, how would we do it, when would we do it. This is done in such a way that it looks authentic. There's no point in doing it otherwise.
What this does not mean, again, is that such an internally discussed concept is concrete.

2. Why it isn't viable.

Unlike the majority of you, CCP is not that stupid, and their final evaluation would include that such an idea cannot ever rely on suitable community support and therefore it would never go through. While I'm sure it's a paradigm for some of you here that you're not the only one capable of thinking of negative sides, I can assure you; CCP had all of your possible complaints noted down before you even knew of this.


Malice Redeemer
Posted - 2011.06.24 21:58:00 - [2]
 

OLD SHIP HANGER VIEW

Demure Guise
Posted - 2011.06.24 21:58:00 - [3]
 

All I saw of your post was "blahblah asskiss".

Ayieka
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.24 21:58:00 - [4]
 

no. stop. you aren't contributing anything to this forum.

Croniac
Merlin Reach
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:07:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Croniac on 24/06/2011 22:08:12
As a general rule, Mr. M14D, when you are calling 400,000 people stupid, you should make sure you don't make up a word like...

"phenomenom"

I'm pretty sure even an idiot like me knows that you meant phenomena, which is often improperly used as 'Phenomenon', but Phenonemom? Isn't that the noise Cookie Monster makes?

Your post was making sense right up till that point, which is I assume when the vodka landed.

M14D
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:07:00 - [6]
 

Now that we have this sorted, we come to the outright absurd behaviour of the Eve community at large today.

I see uninformed arguments all over the place now. People throw as much a pitchfork-tantrum here as they would do in Hello Kitty Online Adventures should the company ever decide to stop selling pandabear pets in NPC stores. Because if you were informed, you would have come to the same conclusion as me up there.

Some people choose to remain uninformed, eternally ignorant towards logical argument and their own fallacies. Why? Because protesting is fun, guys. It's 2011. I see analogies to Greece and the Middle-East all over the place here. Massive fleets in EVE are forming up right now to spam the channels. Screw reasonable thought, inspired by global revolutions we now have our "DEY WANT TO TAKE OUR FREEDOMZ" moment and we're going to make sure this continues late into the night, because this sure as hell beats doing lvl4 missions in a droneboat! In short, this is what's known as bandwagon behaviour.

There's also a second class of people manifesting today. They're the so called rage-quitters. Found excessively in all communities, they suffer from unwarranted self-importance by assuming that anyone gives a damn if they just post they're going to quit. Which, by the way, they're not. 90% of all rage-quitters will return within a week. They just wanted to feel, you know, special. Like throwing your toys out of the pram, but after a while you'll want them back. When no one's looking. Silently.

The third category of people I see here today are the types I like to label as "herpderp no u, noob" people. They carry no arguments with them. Instead, they rely on rhetoric that doesn't delve into the point at hand, but is personally aimed towards the opponent. Phrases such as "you're just a fanboy" and personal insults which includes, but is not limited to: "die in a fire." These sorts of 'threats' then often culmulate into heated exchanges, with a now famed example being some random self-proclaimed important person threatening CCP personnell, and finding herself banned on all accounts. Rightly so.

So with the above, I've accurately summarised today's EVE community (with exceptions such as those who agree with me) as ragequitting, swearing bandwagoneers. Congratulations, you're not an exceptional community. You fit the norm and behave exactly as expected.

The expected response to this is: "so your definition of intelligent is taking it up the rear by CCP?"

The answer is: No, I simply know the difference between actually having something up me and being reamed by a non-existent object. The latter being the case here today.

Nuhm DeAra
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:09:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Nuhm DeAra on 24/06/2011 22:13:42

Originally by: M14D
The OP's 1st post




Finally, someone with brains around here! I support your post 100%.

And, since a lot of the people around here are really good at speaking for an entire community, allow me to do just that: I am apologizing for all of the mindless flames that will pour into this thread - for the community.

Oh and:

Originally by: Croniac
Edited by: Croniac on 24/06/2011 22:08:12
As a general rule, Mr. M14D, when you are calling 4,000 people stupid...


Fixed.

M14D
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:11:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: M14D on 24/06/2011 22:13:21
Originally by: Croniac
Edited by: Croniac on 24/06/2011 22:08:12
As a general rule, Mr. M14D, when you are calling 400,000 people stupid, you should make sure you don't make up a word like...

"phenomenom"

I'm pretty sure even an idiot like me knows that you meant phenomena, which is often improperly used as 'Phenomenon', but Phenonemom? Isn't that the noise Cookie Monster makes?

Your post was making sense right up till that point, which is I assume when the vodka landed.


Hello Croniac. I want you to meet a friend, he's called Mr. Pedantic. Also, there's nothing improper about phenomenon.

Also, I'm going to guess you're a native speaker. I'm not. At the same time I'm pretty sure my posts are comprehensible and when you near enough write an essay, mistakes are going to slip through. Spelling-checks are difficult tonight because people are overall being morons and I'd rather not wait til the forums crash before I submit a post.

Thanks.

By the way you fall under the "herp derp no u suck" category as I accurately described.

Scorpii Zenith
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:12:00 - [9]
 

Profit, without profit, there isn't EVE.

Without profit, there isn't new stuff for EVE.

You lazy ass socialistic poor kiddos should get a job and life.

Your stuff, to Scorpii Zenith, via contract. Thank you.

Serpent Kamri
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:12:00 - [10]
 

Your points would be completely valid, but they don't work in a situation like this. The community has made it crystal clear that no MTs for gameplay items will be tolerated in any extent. Yes, CCP is a company that wants to make money, but money comes from people and people don't want to give you their money if they're ****ed off and you don't answer their concerns. It's a delicate balance between price and value where you can't ask 80 dollars for pixels. Even WoW's highly controversial "celestial pony" was 20 to 25ish IIRC and you could ****ing fly that thing. We only get a monocle that no one will see besides us for God knows how long.

I do understand the points you're making and I'm not so naive to think CCP are pink and cuddly rabbits who make EVE because they love every single one of us so very much, but this...mess...is magnitudes worse than what EA does and that is quite an achievement.

Croniac
Merlin Reach
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:15:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: M14D
They just wanted to feel, you know, special.


But by posturing, and belittling the rest of us you're not trying to make yourself seem 'special'?

So many big words tossed around just trying to belittle your readers... And then you want to take the high ground?

Doesn't work like that.

Shova Kais
Caldari
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:15:00 - [12]
 

These types of posts are the ones that should be constantly getting bumped to the top.

Farali
Cobalt Dragon Exploration Company
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:15:00 - [13]
 

I agree with you to an extent, but I believe the behavior we're seeing today has been a long time coming. It's more than just a few incidences, it's an entire series of issues compounded into a single moment bursting at once. Sure people are overacting to some extent, but I'm also sure that CCP is not handling this situation as well as they should.

It seems that the community at large is a little more deserving of a real response to the matter. Something a lot more substantial than the blog post that was just recently posted.

Scarlet des Loupes
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:16:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: M14D
snip

Basically you're saying "if they want to make EVE into WoW in space they should go ahead as it's just about money".

Croniac
Merlin Reach
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:17:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Croniac on 24/06/2011 22:20:39
Originally by: M14D

Hello Croniac. I want you to meet a friend, he's called Mr. Pedantic. Also, there's nothing improper about phenomenon.



You didn't actually say Phenomenon. Go have a read.

Malice Redeemer
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:18:00 - [16]
 

your an ass, I know I'm not following anyone because its fun to protest, it because this cool game I like had a feature removed. I did cancel my subs and I wont be back because I don't play games that developers rip features out of. also MT for in-game advantage could quite easily destroy the in-game economy and any remaining sense of fair play.

M14D
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:18:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Serpent Kamri
Your points would be completely valid, but they don't work in a situation like this. The community has made it crystal clear that no MTs for gameplay items will be tolerated in any extent. Yes, CCP is a company that wants to make money, but money comes from people and people don't want to give you their money if they're ****ed off and you don't answer their concerns. It's a delicate balance between price and value where you can't ask 80 dollars for pixels. Even WoW's highly controversial "celestial pony" was 20 to 25ish IIRC and you could ****ing fly that thing. We only get a monocle that no one will see besides us for God knows how long.

I do understand the points you're making and I'm not so naive to think CCP are pink and cuddly rabbits who make EVE because they love every single one of us so very much, but this...mess...is magnitudes worse than what EA does and that is quite an achievement.


The mess is worse because the community overreacted. Why do you think Zulu's blogpost was so short? The guy has nothing to say about this, because the truth isn't going to sit well with people. They debated microtransactions for the sake of debating it. That's all there's to it. Now his staff is getting spammed with abuse and nothing he writes in his blog apart from offering every single accountholder 5 bil ISK would make it right.

Why?

They want to protest. They want to throw a tantrum and poor mister Zulu would have to apologise for **** that never even happened to make it right. That wouldn't sit well with me either.


Doris Dents
Kismet Inc
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:20:00 - [18]
 

It's more to do with pent up rage from Eve being neglected like an old forgotten toy while CCP plays with DUST and Sparkle Vampires on our dime. 60 dollar monocles was just the spark that started the bonfire.

Anonymous Lemming
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:20:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Farali
I agree with you to an extent, but I believe the behavior we're seeing today has been a long time coming. It's more than just a few incidences, it's an entire series of issues compounded into a single moment bursting at once. Sure people are overacting to some extent, but I'm also sure that CCP is not handling this situation as well as they should.

It seems that the community at large is a little more deserving of a real response to the matter. Something a lot more substantial than the blog post that was just recently posted.


Yeah you have some idiots protesting for ****ing hanger view, some for destruction of MT, some for only MT of vanity items and still some for lowering of MT prices(wtf?). You got a bunch of people ****ed about hardware requirements and some people ****ed about their hardware melting. CCP doesn't no what the ****s going on, the dev blog was insulting. And on top of it all, the skies falling.

Elienore
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:20:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Croniac
Originally by: M14D
They just wanted to feel, you know, special.


But by posturing, and belittling the rest of us you're not trying to make yourself seem 'special'?

So many big words tossed around just trying to belittle your readers... And then you want to take the high ground?

Doesn't work like that.


But ultimately it's fitting for the current situation. Besides, it's not like it's hard to read.

If anything, this is a more serious version of the (funny) whiner categorization that popped up yesterday.

M14D
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:21:00 - [21]
 

Quote:
The community has made it crystal clear that no MTs for gameplay items will be tolerated in any extent.


Dollars > PLEX > ISK

Where's your God now? The only difference now is that your PLEX divides into another currency. Ultimately, the very root of the already existing MT has not changed. I assume that's what you refer to, the new clothes; as the proposed MT's about ships, ammo and other perks are all purely hypothetical and scalding CCP for that is, as I described, a very silly thing to do.

Farali
Cobalt Dragon Exploration Company
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:25:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: M14D
Quote:
The community has made it crystal clear that no MTs for gameplay items will be tolerated in any extent.


Dollars > PLEX > ISK

Where's your God now? The only difference now is that your PLEX divides into another currency. Ultimately, the very root of the already existing MT has not changed. I assume that's what you refer to, the new clothes; as the proposed MT's about ships, ammo and other perks are all purely hypothetical and scalding CCP for that is, as I described, a very silly thing to do.


I believe part of the sentiment may even be that some may prefer a subscription raise rather than have items produced using sub money and then have them need to be purchased.

Parsala
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:25:00 - [23]
 

OP's the best poster of the week, + 1

Ezra Vouland
Lords 0f Justice
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:26:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Serpent Kamri
The community has made it crystal clear that no MTs for gameplay items will be tolerated in any extent.


By community you mean a hand full of complainers on the forums? Id bet not even 10% of the real community even use the forums or care.

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:26:00 - [25]
 

The larger the group the less individual intelligence or even average intelligence actually impacts the way that group behaves. You could have 1000 180+ IQs locked up in a room and none of them will act like it given sufficient time and a consistent negative factor.

But a small group, say five people, isolated from the larger group will act more rationally much more often Even if they are much less intelligent.

Basically the mob mentality has nothing to do with intelligence, so concluding that the individual average intellect is significantly lower entirely based on that is a fallacious conclusion.

M14D
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:26:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Croniac
Originally by: M14D
They just wanted to feel, you know, special.


But by posturing, and belittling the rest of us you're not trying to make yourself seem 'special'?

So many big words tossed around just trying to belittle your readers... And then you want to take the high ground?

Doesn't work like that.


I've taken no high ground. It's just that the majority of forum-visitors today have decided to step onto a lower tier than myself by exhibiting a great deal of immature behaviour. I'm still where I was yesterday. You're all just on lower ground than me now, because you've chosen to.

Don't blame me when I haven't moved. I'll instead blame you people for having moved.


ThirdEyeBlenny
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:27:00 - [27]
 


Wholeheartedly agree with you OP. Nice post.


All the best.


Novak Sarin
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:27:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Scorpii Zenith
Profit, without profit, there isn't EVE.


You truly are a poet.

Algathas
Minmatar
The Revenge of Auntie Freeze
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:27:00 - [29]
 

A fail business makes a product and then tries to find out if there is a buyer for it.

A successful business finds a *need* and then makes their business to fulfill that need.

CCP had a product that was fulfilling a need, and decided to do an experiment and change the game plan, completely ignoring the people whom it is servicing. Projections of profit or the fact that they are a company and allowed to sell whatever they want doesn't matter if customers don't want what they are selling.

If a company want's to be successful, then they must look to make a business plan to fulfill the need in a way that is profitable to them, rather than creating a product and attempting to cram it down the throats of those who don't want it.

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:30:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: M14D
CCP is a company. Companies think about making money. Those thoughts are written down. Often they are discussed. This is done in a debated style. Because that highlights the good- and the bad factors of such a thought. After the debating is done, the thought is placed aside until it may one day be looked at again. A conclusion is then made of the old debate. Will this thought turn live? Maybe. Maybe not. This is how companies work. Everything must be discussed. Even things people no likey. Not even the company itself Just for the sake of discussing it. To test viability.


I think you fail to see an important point. Companies are not just about making money, and I don't think companies should just about making money. Even outside of laws and regulations that 'force' companies to play nice in their attempts to create more profit. Many many companies nowadays have internal company policies, a moral code if you will. This is why some companies don't make use of (legal) child labor overseas.

Also, the willingness to make money for oneself at the expense of the stability of the community was at the basis of the banking crisis. We all know plenty of examples where unbridled focus on profit can lead to.

You are underestimating the intelligence of this community and mistaking the impact of this document. The impact was not caused by the document alone. The document was like finding the diary of your partner saying she's attracted to another while you've already had many signs that your relationship was deteriorating in the years before. It is the fuse lighting the powder keg. I can perfectly read the document in context. The document is not damning in itself. However, the document is damning in the context of all the other things that happened the last years. That is the core of the problem. That is why I am upset.


Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only