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Ian Blackbird
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.26 12:35:00 - [2851]
 

Quote:

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?




this

Trax Darkstorm
Caldari
Commonwealth Mercenaries
Posted - 2011.06.26 12:39:00 - [2852]
 

I won't be renewing my subscription after it runs out with the current situation. Please listen to your CUSTOMERS!!!!

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.26 12:41:00 - [2853]
 

Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 26/06/2011 12:41:56
Originally by: Ian Blackbird
Quote:

duuuuuhhhhhhh?




this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyMXYE_50Ts

L Anubis
Posted - 2011.06.26 12:54:00 - [2854]
 

3 accounts cancelled

Hyperforce99
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.06.26 12:57:00 - [2855]
 

listen to this EVE radio discussion with several CSM members and prominent players.
It made things really clear on whats going on here.

http://www.eve-radio.com/news-compendium/eve-radio/1074-dissecting-ccp-a-funkybacon-talk-special



I'm not blaming CCP Zulu or CCP Soundwave. Zulu's blog didn't sound like him at all.
It sounds more like Hilmar or someone in higher management is forcing the company into this direction and it muting all the other sounds from the company...

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.26 12:58:00 - [2856]
 

Originally by: Claire Shala
Originally by: Nishachara
CCP answer this please:

ARE YOU MOVING BEYOND AURUM-FOR-VANITY ITEMS?



So i can know should i continue to play and spend time on your game or not.


I think I can answer that for you.

Selling vanity only items (even at dumb prices) will only net you so much money, not everyone is willing to buy them. The vanity items are also not cheap to design, model and implement, and vanity must be feed and updated continuously. CCP's 6+ month lead time on making 1-2 new models/shirts/accessories would rendered the vanity only NeX store a joke eventually.

The only thing they could sell consistently in NeX is pay-to-win things. After that happens, its just a matter of how fast things go down hill.

But there is more.

The funny thing about most pay-to-win items is they have basically ZERO development cost. Add SP? Probably 10 lines of code to add points to the system already in place. Gold ammo? Take faction ammo, pallet shift the icon, adjust stats and you are done. Same with modules, BPCs and implants.

Vanity ships, or 'custom' paintjobs and logos will take more work, they've been requested forever and now that greed and a cracking whip are in full command, you'll see them very soon.

Pay-to-win items are just too easy, and too (short term) lucrative for the 'Greed is Good' mentality of CCP to pass up.

CCP will not come out and say directly "Yes non-vanity items will be sold." because they are trying to be subtle on this (and only this it seems). String people along, slowly ease 'innocent' pay-to-win items in the store, and hope people are blind enough to not only pay a subscription, but also pay out the nose for items all but required to play the game.

IS CCP moving beyond aurum-for-vanity items? Yes, at full speed.

Greed is Good after all.


Still the best post on the subject, a few runners up.

Not laser focused but does the trick for communicating the situation.

Another good one goes into the setup of the gold system where the dealer always wins on people who try to setup "shops" (CCP being the sole supplier).

Wingspread
Posted - 2011.06.26 12:59:00 - [2857]
 

Originally by: DathasI'm not leaving... yet; I have friends and plenty of good times, but listen to all of these posts. Listen to how your customers, players and fans are reacting to your treatment of them.

Dathas, out.[/quote



I'm Wingspread, and I approve this message.

Galenea Moreau
Galactic Operations
Posted - 2011.06.26 13:11:00 - [2858]
 

Edited by: Galenea Moreau on 26/06/2011 13:12:10
Many years ago when I first started playing EVE I remember a being surprised at the amount of things you could do without being required to buy additional content and being encouraged to stay playing EVE by being repeadedly told all core content expansions would be free to the player.

Right now I'm becoming exceedingly worried that that core value has been abandoned in the continuing search for more profits.

I am not refering to the current exhorbitant prices for the vanity items not the comment from CCP Zulu that probably even more expensive items will also becoming available but to the continually unanswered question of weather game balance effecting items are going to be available in the future only as a money transaction item.

On the subject of the money transaction vanity items that are currently available I refuse to use the word Micro in relation to any item in the NEX exchange as micro implies small and there isn't a single item there that qualifies. I'm sorry but any vanity item that costs as much if not more than a real world equivalent is not a micro transaction. Do you guys not realise that there is a recesion in the world? or are you so disconnected from your playerbase that you don't realise that playing EVE is the one remaining luxury that some of us are affording ourselves.

In the end I hope you guys realise just how far wide of the mark you are on this and sort it out really quickly but I'm guessing that so far it's not sunk in that it's better to sell 20,000 of something at $2 than it is to sell 200 at $20 both make you $40,000 but the former upsets 18,800 less people and right now those 18,800 are really really upset.

Oh one other thing, seeing as vanity items are clearly a luxury and since all these transactions are taking place on UK soil are you making provision to pay the UK's 20% luxuries Tax? I know the economy over here could do with the revenue Laughing

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.26 13:26:00 - [2859]
 

More youtube awesomeness:

CCP discusses microtransactions

"It sounds like your values have changed."
'Yes."
"Why?"
"We're a company. Our core value is to have no values."

Ghazu
Posted - 2011.06.26 13:29:00 - [2860]
 

comparing goddamn pixel clothing to $1000 japanese boutique jeans? what the Focking Fock

now you are the one that is deserving of the hatred, the ****storm and the draggin through of the mud
Arnar Hrafn Gylfason

Skyreth
Revelation of Wrath
Posted - 2011.06.26 13:37:00 - [2861]
 

Good items:
-Vanity and cosmetic items, items such as clothes, paint jobs for the ships and perhaps altered models of ships. These items I am fine with.

-New ships. Ships with bonuses and the such that are on par with current used ships, with the ability to sell these ships on the market, I could be fine with that too.

Bad items:
-Items that give an unfair advantage over other players, training speed increases and all the rest. These sort of things are a complete no. So no giving training speed bonuses or over powered ships out, that will kill EVE.


**********
As some of you may be aware, Sony Online Entertainment has recently announced plans to close Star Wars Galaxies. SWG was killed by stupid ideas, don't let EVE go the same way.

I love Incarna, I'm fine with micro-transactions to a limit...but do not start letting people buy unfair advantages with real world money. It will ruin the PvP in EVE, which will then destroy the markets, which will finally kill off the carebears.

I'll stick around for a long while yet. But as soon as EVE starts to become by ruled by people with deep wallets in RL, then I will consider leaving. Besides that obvious micro-transaction issues though, I am fine with the direction EVE is headed.

Hana Steelethorne
Posted - 2011.06.26 13:41:00 - [2862]
 

CCP Zulu's devblog was just so much condescending twaddle and bafflegab.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.26 13:59:00 - [2863]
 

CCP hears:

Originally by: Skyreth
Good items:
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah . These items I am fine with.

-blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah


Kristaara
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.26 14:07:00 - [2864]
 

Kind of a terrible dev blog, unless the purpose was to enrage people further.

I don't mind the MT, but the terribleness of CQ/Incarna in general and the lack of focus on internet spaceships killed my will to care anymore.

2 days left on account and then ciao.

Alex Roggen
Posted - 2011.06.26 14:13:00 - [2865]
 

I don't consider it a microtransaction when vanity items costs more than two or three months worth of subscription time. WTF.... Since you overpriced everything... I doubt you will yeild much in improved income.

Y'lon
Posted - 2011.06.26 14:15:00 - [2866]
 

Is it just my impression or did the devblog sound like a big: "F**k off. Yeah, we hear you, but we don't care. We'll charge you as much as we want for those useless items and there's nothing you can do about it."

I'm sorry, but this is the first time I saw a game developer be this arrogant towards their customers.

Belloche
Caldari
Pegasus Battle Group
Posted - 2011.06.26 14:17:00 - [2867]
 

On 6/24/10 we were told point blank that CCP had no plans to introduce ANY type of MT whatsoever. Now we have the NEX shop. Thats a 180 degree turn around. Being as it takes '18 months' for CCP to fix/do anything were they lying then? Will you or I actually believe them now if they say there will not be any non-vanity items in the nex shop in the future? I won't, especially since I saw what was discussed in the Fearless newsletter and that Hilmar specifically said, "We have communicated our intention here INTERNALLY in very wide circles through the Virtual Economy Summit presentation at the GSM, our FEARLESS NEWSLETTER, sprint reviews, email lists and multiple other channels. This should not come as a surprise to anyone." HIS words, not mine. It comes as a surprise to us since it wasn't done EXTERNALLY. (note that I put his important words in all caps) If we are to believe that "the newsletter doesn't represent the values of CCP" spin, then Hilmar contradicts that in his GLOBAL MASS MAIL. Do we believe a dev or the CEO?

In Fearless, they said that they will be selling standing and other non-vanity items for Arum.

CCP WAS READY AT THE EXPANSION TO SELL Scorpions

(or don't you remember that) They removed it from the expansion because of the stink we raised and they said they couldn't add a mechanic that a scorpion ship would be a required material to buy it from the cash shop. (now that I think of it, did they actually remove it or just not make it an option right now?) I have been playing this game for almost 4 years now and this would have been UNTHINKABLE for me to think before. Now? Not only do I think it, I KNOW it is coming and I am SAYING its coming. I pray that they prove me wrong. Unsubbing my 3 accounts is the only thing I can do as a paying customer since I quote Hilmar, "I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say" SO what did I do? I will let my 3 accounts lapse. I pray I am wrong, but I really doubt it.

QT McWhiskers
EdgeGamers
Situation: Normal
Posted - 2011.06.26 14:20:00 - [2868]
 

Lately I have been looking over many of CCPs answers to our questions, mainly about the price of things, in the forums. The most common one I have seen is that in real life, you pay large amounts of money for designer clothes. Well this may be true, however we dont pay more than the cost of infantry armor.


Go back and look at your own dust 514 video. It shows the price of infantry armor, designed to deflect or stop bullets and absorb impacts and explosions, to be 375k. Are you telling me that infantry armor is CHEAPER than designer clothes in the real world as well?

Just food for thought.

Also, since the Aegis infantry armor only cost 375k, I would like to wear it in station to help protect against idiots with guns.

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2011.06.26 14:23:00 - [2869]
 

I was telling my wife about this MT for non-vanity items, essentially explaining Pay 2 Win, and she asked me, "and still paying a monthly subscription?"

"That's like Walmart charging an entrance fee so that you can have the privilege of buying stuff at their store."

QT McWhiskers
EdgeGamers
Situation: Normal
Posted - 2011.06.26 14:29:00 - [2870]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
I was telling my wife about this MT for non-vanity items, essentially explaining Pay 2 Win, and she asked me, "and still paying a monthly subscription?"

"That's like Walmart charging an entrance fee so that you can have the privilege of buying stuff at their store."



Or like a strip club making you pay a cover charge even though lap dan... oh wait.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.26 14:30:00 - [2871]
 

Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 26/06/2011 14:30:54
Originally by: Belloche
On 6/24/10 we were told point blank that CCP had no plans to introduce ANY type of MT whatsoever. Now we have the NEX shop. Thats a 180 degree turn around. Being as it takes '18 months' for CCP to fix/do anything were they lying then? Will you or I actually believe them now if they say there will not be any non-vanity items in the nex shop in the future? I won't, especially since I saw what was discussed in the Fearless newsletter and that Hilmar specifically said, "We have communicated our intention here INTERNALLY in very wide circles through the Virtual Economy Summit presentation at the GSM, our FEARLESS NEWSLETTER, sprint reviews, email lists and multiple other channels. This should not come as a surprise to anyone." HIS words, not mine. It comes as a surprise to us since it wasn't done EXTERNALLY. (note that I put his important words in all caps) If we are to believe that "the newsletter doesn't represent the values of CCP" spin, then Hilmar contradicts that in his GLOBAL MASS MAIL. Do we believe a dev or the CEO?

In Fearless, they said that they will be selling standing and other non-vanity items for Arum.

CCP WAS READY AT THE EXPANSION TO SELL Scorpions

(or don't you remember that) They removed it from the expansion because of the stink we raised and they said they couldn't add a mechanic that a scorpion ship would be a required material to buy it from the cash shop. (now that I think of it, did they actually remove it or just not make it an option right now?) I have been playing this game for almost 4 years now and this would have been UNTHINKABLE for me to think before. Now? Not only do I think it, I KNOW it is coming and I am SAYING its coming. I pray that they prove me wrong. Unsubbing my 3 accounts is the only thing I can do as a paying customer since I quote Hilmar, "I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say" SO what did I do? I will let my 3 accounts lapse. I pray I am wrong, but I really doubt it.


Great post! I believe the final verdict on Scorp was "Righto so everyones cool with that? What you mean problem? Ahh we'll put it in as a trial. Gotta run!" - paraphrase CSM Minutes




Originally by: Shar Tegral
I was telling my wife about this MT for non-vanity items, essentially explaining Pay 2 Win, and she asked me, "and still paying a monthly subscription?"

"That's like Walmart charging an entrance fee so that you can have the privilege of buying stuff at their store."



I believe it's only a problem during the transition phase. Once we all leave they can go F2P/P2W.


Chaala Stone
Posted - 2011.06.26 14:31:00 - [2872]
 


Shar Tegral
Posted - 2011.06.26 14:36:00 - [2873]
 

Hmmmm... ugly discovery today: If you pay via gtc or plex and ever paid via CC in the past - Unsub. Letting your account expire only gets you this email:

Quote:
Dear X X XxXxxxx

Player XxxxXxxxx, your CreditCard account was billed on: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 10:14:21 GMT, in the amount of 14.95 USD.
Payment ID: 14567524 (Please include with any correspondence.)
Description:
1 x 1 Month EVE Subscription @ 14.95 USD = 14.95 USD
TOTAL = 14.95 USD



To contact Customer Support and Services, please send an Email to: [email protected]
Customer Support for EVE Online is provided via E-mail 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. We do not provide phone support for EVE Online.
For general information about EVE, the Customer Support Knowledgebase is available here: http://support.eveonline.com

Best regards,
EVE Online Customer Support

So, you can't just let your account expire as CCP will automatically bill you. No worries though, I'm going to be on the phone to have the charges reversed forthwith.

Dix Tarr
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.26 14:41:00 - [2874]
 

+2 accounts cancelled

Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari
River-Rats in space
The Ditanian Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.26 14:47:00 - [2875]
 

Originally by: Orkasm
Its been 2 days CCP, Where is your reply?



Many pages back and I believe in this thread, but it might have been in a different one, a comment was made that there were only 2 CCP people there and that folks should save this until Monday...

Of course that's not a verbatim quote because I've read through too many blogs and posts and pages since I saw it, but I do remember seeing it. :)

o/
K.S.


Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari
River-Rats in space
The Ditanian Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.26 14:51:00 - [2876]
 

Edited by: Kelnarn Shaelingrath on 26/06/2011 14:56:04
Originally by: Shar Tegral

"That's like Walmart charging an entrance fee so that you can have the privilege of buying stuff at their store."




They do* that already to be honest.. it's called "Sam's Club"

Very Happy

o/
K.S.

*edit: typo


Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.26 14:56:00 - [2877]
 

Originally by: Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Originally by: Orkasm
Its been 2 days CCP, Where is your reply?



Many pages back and I believe in this thread, but it might have been in a different one, a comment was made that there were only 2 CCP people there and that folks should save this until Monday...

Of course that's not a verbatim quote because I've read through too many blogs and posts and pages since I saw it, but I do remember seeing it. :)

o/
K.S.




No phones in Iceland?

Maybe CCP is going to let the CSM decide where it can and can't make money. :-)

Harpalyce Dynameos
Posted - 2011.06.26 14:56:00 - [2878]
 

Edited by: Harpalyce Dynameos on 26/06/2011 15:00:36
Edited by: Harpalyce Dynameos on 26/06/2011 14:58:59
The more I think about it the more I agree

Quote:
Your subscription fee gives you unlimited access to the EVE Online servers, website, and customer support. Unlike console games where you are purchasing the game as-is, the development of EVE as a persistent world is ongoing with frequent updates to add new features and improve your gameplay experience. Subscriptions allow us to continue making EVE bigger and better as well as paying our staff their monthly wages. CCP does not charge extra for game expansions.


This alone should guarantee everything that comes out in our EVE is and always will be free, but nope, I remember the fiasco with EVE Voice, besides being a redundant system it was BS to pay for. Remaps for PLEX? Besides being game breaking it should have never been brought up. Ship fittings? The ****? You want us to pay for bookmarks too? Especially since in its earlier form there was no ****ing limit to fittings. NeX? Now I can (you conspiracy theorists, I know I don't have to buy it) pay for new features of my Carbon Character Creator, inside my EVE, which should be free? What's different from drawing the line earlier? You could have charged for the sunglasses, scars, and tattoos, oh did I just give you a stiffy CCP?

But maybe we're in the land of legalese? And this isn't an expansion, you're getting CQ, so we can charge for the other bits!

This is all a load and I'm getting fed up with this CCP. Maybe you should HTFU and stand back and remember what your creation was because it's getting far from it and not in a good way.

Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari
River-Rats in space
The Ditanian Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.26 15:06:00 - [2879]
 

Originally by: Constantinus Maximus


No phones in Iceland?




HAHAHAHA
without a doubt there are, but whether anyone's "answering" them or not is a different matter...

o/
K.S.

vasuul
Posted - 2011.06.26 15:18:00 - [2880]
 

for those of you that still dont understand the gripe
I refer you back to the dev blog http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=815 dated 2010.11.22 16:29:14
You've probably all seen or heard about the changes that hit the test server last month where you could buy a neural remap (redistribution of attributes) with a PLEX. The ensuing community discussion and a whole heap of Council of Stellar Management discussions we had, both during their visit to CCP earlier in October and, through the magic of the internet, has led us to revisit that specific change and helped us form a holistic strategy for virtual goods sales moving forward.
Phew, that was a long sentence.
There are two things we want to communicate in this blog, in response to all the discussion that's been going on:
First, we've decided to shelve all the changes to neural remaps we had planned. We now have no plans to change things from the way they are currently on Tranquility. No PLEX for remaps, no ISK for remaps, nothing. All code has been reverted, no new code has been written. Nothing will change.

Second, we wanted to explain our thinking a little more. It‘s always been the intent of CCP to continue diversifying EVE Online's business model and we‘ve been looking at various options to do so. This started with the introduction of PLEX, which was an innovative way for players to exchange in-game assets for subscription on a fully player driven marketplace. Since we introduced the PLEX item we've monitored its trading, price and velocity closely. It's now time for us to take the next evolutionary step.

It‘s clear that it‘s the will of the community to keep virtual goods sales outside the spectrum of what we classify as the "merit economy". That refers to skills gained over time or items that have a gameplay impact. So after discussions, designs, brainstorming and all sorts of processes we‘ve come up with a strategy that we‘ve already polished with the help of the CSM and would now want to present to the larger community.

Virtual goods sales in EVE Online will evolve through sales of vanity items, first in Incarna but later in-space features. The scope will be (and there‘s no design has been done around this, we‘re just talking strategy now) that anything that doesn‘t affect gameplay directly can be, potentially, sold for PLEX or other means. Ideas that have come up include Incarna clothing and furniture, logos on spaceships and swapping out portraits. This is by no means a comprehensive list, nor is it a commitment that said items will be available for sale, I mention these as an example for what type of items we‘re thinking about.

It‘s important to clarify that virtual goods sales isn‘t an arbitrary - or particularly greedy - decision. There is a constantly decreasing number of MMO‘s out there that don‘t incorporate virtual goods sales at some level. - games that aren't responding to this trend are dying out. Diversifying the business model allows us to offer our players the services and features they desire in ways that are conducive to how they wish to spend their entertainment dollars. The result is that we provide a wider range of options to our subscribers which, in turn, leaves us better positioned to react to future seismic shifts in the market.

If we don‘t react to the wishes of the market we will simply become the dinosaurs of the industry. And everyone knows what happens to dinosaurs. God makes them disappear. Through MAGIC.

CCP Zulu
then the leaked memo comes out greed is good that seems like ccp is going back on their promise in this memo
then the bash : thinking we are mad over clothes
so the question is asked time and time again
WILL CCP START SELLING NON VANITY ITEMS ON NEX(SUCH AS FACTION ITEMS, STANDINGS AND OTHER CHARACTER ADVANCEMENTS)? YES OR NO
"SAY IT AINT SO JOE "
finally the second leaked : wait em out hilmar
and the stonewalling goes on thus speaking volumes
7 accounts unsubbed by me until a proper response is given


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