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Smoking Blunts
Posted - 2011.06.26 01:47:00 - [2731]
 

inside ccp

Quote:
CCP Games – “The longer you stay the more it hurts”
Several years now CCP has predicated insane subscriber goals that cannot be met. Naturally this is met with scepticism by the employees but it falls on deaf ears. The result is that the company is suffering because we cannot sustain the development of EVE, DUST and WOD. EVE is not creating enough revenue which means that solutions are sought, solutions that CCP was vehemently against a few years ago.


James StormRider
Posted - 2011.06.26 01:50:00 - [2732]
 

Originally by: Amber Villaneous
Originally by: James StormRider
Originally by: Amber Villaneous
Originally by: Anatolli Korenchken
Wow we really are a bunch of whiners.

I mean such a small issue that causes so many people to cancel their subs,
so how do these vanity items affect your normal gameplay such as pvping, pveing, industry, whatever?

From my point of view Eve is still the same game, with a feature of two I have no interest in exploring, just as I have not participated in an Incursion, but you won't find me ragequiting because I haven't invested any time in a new feature addition.

So am I led to believe that the people unsubbing WANT a monocle or other vanity item but don't want to pay the price/too lazy to make/earn money to afford it?

If I have it all wrong I apologize, but I ask those considering quitting consider why they play Eve, what makes it enjoyable for you, what causes you to log on and ask yourself - Has anything really changed?

To CCP: Thanks for weeding out the weak! I'm EX-NC so I've known for years that we needed to trim the fat of carebears, cry-babies and bandwagoners!


You have it wrong, no one cares about monocles, its the soon to come pay to win scheme.


Since when does eve have an end game LOL. You can't win at eve it's not geared that way this is not WoW Razz


WTF are you talking about? The pay to win scheme means that some nub with 10k in daddies money can start an account, fill in the skills and SP, buy all his ships gear standings, buy things that can only be bought directly from CCP with uber stats, warp in on you and annihilate you, your corp and alliance. Take your SOV and buy protection from CCP. No one said anything about end-game, but it will be the end of EVE except for the five stupid rich guys on the server paying CCPs bills.


Dang all of that from an internal news letter and a clothes shop lol. Has any one stopped to think that this is just a way for CCP to get a free spot light on EVE and in a few days or a week they will come out and say AUR will only be used for clothes and not for any game items that will impact game play LOL. The net is a buzzzz with CCP and EVE atm more so than it's been in years. How many people do you think have gotten an account in the past day just to check out all the crap going on in forum post and in local channels????? I know of 10 that signed up for eve today just to check out what people are saying. Way to go CCP putting EVE in the spot light LOLWink

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.26 01:54:00 - [2733]
 

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

No one even "got it" in the other thread.

Too busy blaming CCP Zulu like he even wrote the blog that appears in his name.

Vikarion
Caldari
State Trade Consortium
Posted - 2011.06.26 02:01:00 - [2734]
 

I'd rather pay $20 per month than have pay-to-win MT.

5nake pliskan
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.26 02:02:00 - [2735]
 

Edited by: 5nake pliskan on 26/06/2011 02:03:17
Edited by: 5nake pliskan on 26/06/2011 02:02:37
FU ccp

I wrote a long post to this turd of a blog

I hit submit but your BS login timer caused my post to dump.

so I wrote a short post to tell you simply that I hate CCP, but it got dumped because apparently trying to log in to your BS forums counts as a ****ing post setting off the 2 minute timer...

go suck an egg Sulu (sic)

AnzacPaul
Perkone
Posted - 2011.06.26 02:03:00 - [2736]
 

Originally by: Vikarion
I'd rather pay $20 per month than have pay-to-win MT.



Except that CCP don't deserve that option anymore. If they were struggling for money, they should of spoken about it. Talked about how Vanity MT items were needed to attract a new player base for more income, and that if we as the players could stomach a 1-2$ increase a month in subscription fees that they promise not to abandon us and help us make the game great.


They did the complete opposite.

Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari
River-Rats in space
The Ditanian Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.26 02:12:00 - [2737]
 

Originally by: Amber Villaneous

You are absolutley correct about one part, they have zero obligation to answer any question


I don't quite agree with this^^ part of your statement as I work in a business similar to EVE and a company, any company does have an obligation to it's client base, even if the company doesn't like it. :)

Originally by: Amber Villaneous
I have no obligation to continue giving them my money either. A company without customers tends to no longer be a company.


On this Part, I agree with you 1000000000000000%

o/
K.S.

James StormRider
Posted - 2011.06.26 02:15:00 - [2738]
 

I keep seeing pay to win pay to win well any one with more than 1 account is already paying to win LOL. Razz

Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari
River-Rats in space
The Ditanian Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.26 02:28:00 - [2739]
 

Originally by: James StormRider
I keep seeing pay to win pay to win well any one with more than 1 account is already paying to win LOL. Razz


Hi James,
That's not actually a correct assumption, I have more than one account and rarely run them all at once, but I also have job specific toons too,.
For example, my miner has squat for fighting skills, standing, or almost anything else, and my fighter can barely fit in a mining ship much-less operate one "efficiently"

I get the point you're trying to make, but you're painting with too broad a brush..

o/
K.S.

James StormRider
Posted - 2011.06.26 02:32:00 - [2740]
 

Originally by: Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Originally by: James StormRider
I keep seeing pay to win pay to win well any one with more than 1 account is already paying to win LOL. Razz


Hi James,
That's not actually a correct assumption, I have more than one account and rarely run them all at once, but I also have job specific toons too,.
For example, my miner has squat for fighting skills, standing, or almost anything else, and my fighter can barely fit in a mining ship much-less operate one "efficiently"

I get the point you're trying to make, but you're painting with too broad a brush..

o/
K.S.



I might be .... but there are the people that have 10 alts and run them all at once in a 1 player mining op lol. Now you can't say that's not pay to win at it's finest Very Happy

Amber Villaneous
Posted - 2011.06.26 02:34:00 - [2741]
 

Originally by: James StormRider
Originally by: Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Originally by: James StormRider
I keep seeing pay to win pay to win well any one with more than 1 account is already paying to win LOL. Razz


Hi James,
That's not actually a correct assumption, I have more than one account and rarely run them all at once, but I also have job specific toons too,.
For example, my miner has squat for fighting skills, standing, or almost anything else, and my fighter can barely fit in a mining ship much-less operate one "efficiently"

I get the point you're trying to make, but you're painting with too broad a brush..

o/
K.S.



I might be .... but there are the people that have 10 alts and run them all at once in a 1 player mining op lol. Now you can't say that's not pay to win at it's finest Very Happy


Not really, each of those accounts had to go thru the same training and time investment, doesn't matter if there is one guy or 10 guys behind the keyboard.

Belloche
Caldari
Pegasus Battle Group
Posted - 2011.06.26 02:35:00 - [2742]
 

Originally by: Anatolli Korenchken
Wow we really are a bunch of whiners.

I mean such a small issue that causes so many people to cancel their subs,
so how do these vanity items affect your normal gameplay such as pvping, pveing, industry, whatever?

From my point of view Eve is still the same game, with a feature of two I have no interest in exploring, just as I have not participated in an Incursion, but you won't find me ragequiting because I haven't invested any time in a new feature addition.

So am I led to believe that the people unsubbing WANT a monocle or other vanity item but don't want to pay the price/too lazy to make/earn money to afford it?

If I have it all wrong I apologize, but I ask those considering quitting consider why they play Eve, what makes it enjoyable for you, what causes you to log on and ask yourself - Has anything really changed?

To CCP: Thanks for weeding out the weak! I'm EX-NC so I've known for years that we needed to trim the fat of carebears, cry-babies and bandwagoners!


Alas, you do have it wrong. We are not upset that CCP wants to make a buck by selling vanity items at all. We understand that CCP is a company and it needs to make a buck.

We are up in arms because they can't/wont/absolutely refuse to simply say that they do not intend to sell NON-VANITY game breaking items in the NEX store in the future.

We are whining/raging because that was the ONLY WAY IN THE PAST to get any response from CCP and, because we actually care about the game. If we didn't care, we would all just unsub and go away quietly into the night. We are trying to prevent a SW:NGE from happening. I am not ragequitting, I am letting my 3 accounts expire when the GTC's I bought two weeks ago run out. Since Hilmar is only going watch to see our actions, not our words, if anyone cares about the future of the game they need to unsub to show him he is wrong.

Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari
River-Rats in space
The Ditanian Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.26 02:39:00 - [2743]
 

Edited by: Kelnarn Shaelingrath on 26/06/2011 02:42:20

Originally by: Amber Villaneous
Originally by: James StormRider
Originally by: Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Originally by: James StormRider
I keep seeing pay to win pay to win well any one with more than 1 account is already paying to win LOL. Razz


Hi James,
That's not actually a correct assumption, I have more than one account and rarely run them all at once, but I also have job specific toons too,.
For example, my miner has squat for fighting skills, standing, or almost anything else, and my fighter can barely fit in a mining ship much-less operate one "efficiently"

I get the point you're trying to make, but you're painting with too broad a brush..

o/
K.S.



I might be .... but there are the people that have 10 alts and run them all at once in a 1 player mining op lol. Now you can't say that's not pay to win at it's finest Very Happy


Not really, each of those accounts had to go thru the same training and time investment, doesn't matter if there is one guy or 10 guys behind the keyboard.


I have to go with Amber on this one James, not to say that "at a glance" your statement wouldn't seem plausible, but as Amber says, there's training and a time investment in those toons as well, and they are paying for those 10 accounts in one way or another each month pretty much the same way an individual account would/could be paid for, it's just a single person doing 10 instead of 10 people. :)

o/
K.S.

edit: ooops, forgot to add: That's not to say that they don't have an advantage because they do, but not the type advantage that the folks in this thread are referring to.

:)

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.06.26 02:43:00 - [2744]
 

What a bunch of condescending crap.

Who actually wrote this Dev Blog?

Did they actually ever take any courses in communication?

I mean this is like pouring gasoline on a fire and then surprised it flares up to twice its size....


Kraxalious
Posted - 2011.06.26 02:45:00 - [2745]
 

Originally by: Belloche

We are up in arms because they can't/wont/absolutely refuse to simply say that they do not intend to sell NON-VANITY game breaking items in the NEX store in the future.




Should be:

We are up in arms because they can't/wont/absolutely refuse to simply say that they WILL NOT sell NON-VANITY game breaking items in the NEX store in the future.


James StormRider
Posted - 2011.06.26 02:46:00 - [2746]
 

Originally by: Amber Villaneous
Originally by: James StormRider
Originally by: Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Originally by: James StormRider
I keep seeing pay to win pay to win well any one with more than 1 account is already paying to win LOL. Razz


Hi James,
That's not actually a correct assumption, I have more than one account and rarely run them all at once, but I also have job specific toons too,.
For example, my miner has squat for fighting skills, standing, or almost anything else, and my fighter can barely fit in a mining ship much-less operate one "efficiently"

I get the point you're trying to make, but you're painting with too broad a brush..

o/
K.S.



I might be .... but there are the people that have 10 alts and run them all at once in a 1 player mining op lol. Now you can't say that's not pay to win at it's finest Very Happy


Not really, each of those accounts had to go thru the same training and time investment, doesn't matter if there is one guy or 10 guys behind the keyboard.


But it's still the same if 1 player can pay for 10 accounts and another can pay for only 1 account the 10 account player wins over the 1 account player lol. As 4 buying skills that will never happen the core thought behind eve is the training and the time that needs to be invested into eve so that eve becomes a way of life and not simply another game to play but a game that becomes part of your daily life. You may say I have no life by that statement but EVE has become apart of my life. How many times have you woke up in the am before work to fire up your planets or to simply log in to send your corp mates a mail. MT will not change the core of EVE unless you let it effect you and your game paly by canceling your account account's.

9axle
Posted - 2011.06.26 03:13:00 - [2747]
 

All I can hope is that someone is watching and learning from CCP mistakes, and that a game better managed and with better administration is just over the horizon, because this one seems to be past its prime.

Solomon XI
Hidden Souls
Posted - 2011.06.26 03:13:00 - [2748]
 

We still want an answer, CCP! We are not going away! We have not forgotten!

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.06.26 03:18:00 - [2749]
 

Originally by: 9axle
All I can hope is that someone is watching and learning from CCP mistakes, and that a game better managed and with better administration is just over the horizon, because this one seems to be past its prime.


Yep and after 2005 you'd think folks had learned from SOEs example...

Still I hope EVE turns around been a lot of fun years.

Raspar
Caldari
Blackwater USA Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.06.26 03:28:00 - [2750]
 

The second any non-vanity items appears in this NEX thing that cannot be obtained through isk via the normal market is the second all my accounts become unsubbed. You best explain your position soon and clearly, CCP.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.26 03:31:00 - [2751]
 

Originally by: Kraxalious

We are up in arms because they can't/wont/absolutely refuse to simply say that they WILL NOT sell NON-VANITY game breaking items in the NEX store in the future.




...........and because they've bull****ted us so much, being caught out in the middle of a bold faced lie.
Now when they say it again for the 25th time we will no longer believe them unless it's in writting from the CEO with a witness under penality of a class-action on his personal liability.

Amber Villaneous
Posted - 2011.06.26 03:43:00 - [2752]
 

Just here for the bump, and oh ya, **** you CCP.

Atra Lupus
Posted - 2011.06.26 03:57:00 - [2753]
 

Originally by: Claire Shala
Originally by: Nishachara
CCP answer this please:

ARE YOU MOVING BEYOND AURUM-FOR-VANITY ITEMS?



So i can know should i continue to play and spend time on your game or not.


I think I can answer that for you.

Selling vanity only items (even at dumb prices) will only net you so much money, not everyone is willing to buy them. The vanity items are also not cheap to design, model and implement, and vanity must be feed and updated continuously. CCP's 6+ month lead time on making 1-2 new models/shirts/accessories would rendered the vanity only NeX store a joke eventually.

The only thing they could sell consistently in NeX is pay-to-win things. After that happens, its just a matter of how fast things go down hill.

But there is more.

The funny thing about most pay-to-win items is they have basically ZERO development cost. Add SP? Probably 10 lines of code to add points to the system already in place. Gold ammo? Take faction ammo, pallet shift the icon, adjust stats and you are done. Same with modules, BPCs and implants.

Vanity ships, or 'custom' paintjobs and logos will take more work, they've been requested forever and now that greed and a cracking whip are in full command, you'll see them very soon.

Pay-to-win items are just too easy, and too (short term) lucrative for the 'Greed is Good' mentality of CCP to pass up.

CCP will not come out and say directly "Yes non-vanity items will be sold." because they are trying to be subtle on this (and only this it seems). String people along, slowly ease 'innocent' pay-to-win items in the store, and hope people are blind enough to not only pay a subscription, but also pay out the nose for items all but required to play the game.

IS CCP moving beyond aurum-for-vanity items? Yes, at full speed.

Greed is Good after all.


Perfectly said especially the line in bold

z3ph
Minmatar
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.26 04:01:00 - [2754]
 

hmmm...

not happy.
But hey, we can still shoot all those monocle people right?

Lysander Kaldenn
Dead Reckoning.
Posted - 2011.06.26 04:02:00 - [2755]
 

I say we make this baby hit 150 pages. Calling all alts, call your friends. Remember the Space Ships CCP!

I'm Down
Posted - 2011.06.26 04:13:00 - [2756]
 

Edited by: I''m Down on 26/06/2011 04:14:10
Originally by: Anatolli Korenchken
Wow we really are a bunch of whiners.

I mean such a small issue that causes so many people to cancel their subs,
so how do these vanity items affect your normal gameplay such as pvping, pveing, industry, whatever?

From my point of view Eve is still the same game, with a feature of two I have no interest in exploring, just as I have not participated in an Incursion, but you won't find me ragequiting because I haven't invested any time in a new feature addition.

So am I led to believe that the people unsubbing WANT a monocle or other vanity item but don't want to pay the price/too lazy to make/earn money to afford it?

If I have it all wrong I apologize, but I ask those considering quitting consider why they play Eve, what makes it enjoyable for you, what causes you to log on and ask yourself - Has anything really changed?

To CCP: Thanks for weeding out the weak! I'm EX-NC so I've known for years that we needed to trim the fat of carebears, cry-babies and bandwagoners!


People aren't cancelling b/c of vanity prices. People are cancelling because they are tired of a broken record of events from this company. The company refuses to fix broken things, and continues to patch in things with horrible implementation strategies and horrible PR skills.

You can't call them childish for getting ****ed off and leaving because CCP as a company is putting out a horrible product. That's just what the market does. Loyalty only drives the customer base so far. CCP burned up that loyalty after multiple bad patching decisions and PR moments over the past 4 years. Now people are just sick of it and the straw has dropped.


Al Merrick
Vis Vires
War and Pestilence
Posted - 2011.06.26 04:22:00 - [2757]
 

just adding to the masses so they know we're here, sittin on the fence to see what happens, finger is by the deactivate button.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.26 04:23:00 - [2758]
 

Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 26/06/2011 04:27:31
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 26/06/2011 04:24:54
Originally by: I'm Down

People aren't cancelling b/c of vanity prices. People are cancelling because they are tired of a broken record of events from this company. The company refuses to fix broken things, and continues to patch in things with horrible implementation strategies and horrible PR skills.

You can't call them childish for getting ****ed off and leaving because CCP as a company is putting out a horrible product. That's just what the market does. Loyalty only drives the customer base so far. CCP burned up that loyalty after multiple bad patching decisions and PR moments over the past 4 years. Now people are just sick of it and the straw has dropped.



^^

Can't be said enough. Hilmar probably still hearing it's a price-point issue.

:18months:? Why do you need to spend :18months: not working on eve?

I pay CCP to maintain a service. That is my contract with them.

I thought they understood growth in a niche market is limited.
I thought they understood that they had a sustainable snowball which would roll forever.
I thought they understood that they only had to ask me if they needed more money.
I thought they understood what a subscription business is.

Then some banker comes along and says "wtf we're not doing 5% growth P.A!!!"

It seems eventually CCP started believing the **** these bankers were telling them about how there are thousands of little gaps in Eve that cash can be extracted from.

I challenge anyone here to find even the smallest revenue steam in EveOnline which hasn't been tagged for exploitation in the near future.


psst. Even the API became a revenue stream.
So MT is very much real. I'm sure it's all these guys talk about day in day out.

The strategy for DUST + WoD/Incarna was sound. I like how they made the code plan match with the business plan and corification.
edit: actually it's the elegance of this plan that I'm sure is what blinded CCP. The plan was so nice that it had to be right.

However. Growth for growths sake is just tarded.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.06.26 04:34:00 - [2759]
 

Originally by: Atra Lupus
Originally by: Claire Shala
Originally by: Nishachara
CCP answer this please:

ARE YOU MOVING BEYOND AURUM-FOR-VANITY ITEMS?



So i can know should i continue to play and spend time on your game or not.


I think I can answer that for you.

Selling vanity only items (even at dumb prices) will only net you so much money, not everyone is willing to buy them. The vanity items are also not cheap to design, model and implement, and vanity must be feed and updated continuously. CCP's 6+ month lead time on making 1-2 new models/shirts/accessories would rendered the vanity only NeX store a joke eventually.

The only thing they could sell consistently in NeX is pay-to-win things. After that happens, its just a matter of how fast things go down hill.

But there is more.

The funny thing about most pay-to-win items is they have basically ZERO development cost. Add SP? Probably 10 lines of code to add points to the system already in place. Gold ammo? Take faction ammo, pallet shift the icon, adjust stats and you are done. Same with modules, BPCs and implants.

Vanity ships, or 'custom' paintjobs and logos will take more work, they've been requested forever and now that greed and a cracking whip are in full command, you'll see them very soon.

Pay-to-win items are just too easy, and too (short term) lucrative for the 'Greed is Good' mentality of CCP to pass up.

CCP will not come out and say directly "Yes non-vanity items will be sold." because they are trying to be subtle on this (and only this it seems). String people along, slowly ease 'innocent' pay-to-win items in the store, and hope people are blind enough to not only pay a subscription, but also pay out the nose for items all but required to play the game.

IS CCP moving beyond aurum-for-vanity items? Yes, at full speed.

Greed is Good after all.


Perfectly said especially the line in bold


Probably this is very close to the truth.

At the same time CCP doesn't want to admit it because doing so means they lose a third of their playerbase overnight and they can't take the hit in revenue. Basically they went in full well knowing they planned to screw all existing players, particularly the veterans.

That 99 license was no mistake, it was a tool planned to silence folks. Sign up and they can shut you down. Thus making sure you are quiet and conformative.

I mean CCP Oveur is still Executive Producer, shame really if he and Hilmer and Hammer have gone this far astray. They probably should wake up and fire their financial adviser they can still turn the ship around.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.26 04:49:00 - [2760]
 

Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 26/06/2011 04:50:32
Originally by: El'Niaga
....Basically they went in full well knowing they planned to screw all existing players, particularly the veterans....


^^

echo echo echo echo

edit: really though they wanted us for another 9-18months and now they are in a lil trouble because we got a little too good at watching the machinations of complex organisations.


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