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Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:00:00 - [2671]
 

Even the big bosses newest knows the deal!

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Cosmic Raider
Capitalist Pig Running Dogs
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:09:00 - [2672]
 

CCP you may think that the Incarna roll out was smoothest yet, but its also the first that is killing my computer.

Since the MT leaked document was all theoretical as you say, now is a good time to listen to your customers. I used to think that CCP was different, that the company really cared about their player base. Between the lack of response to the sham Alliance Tourney and this mess, I'm not so sure anymore.


Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:11:00 - [2673]
 

Originally by: M'ktakh
Did Liang and Helicity really get banned, even ingame?




yes. everything you see is true. I have not seen much in the way of false info.

CCP did it to themselves so there isn't really much "conspiracy" about it.

Jannx
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:11:00 - [2674]
 

Just a small point that's going to get lost in all this nonsense, but 47000 logins on a Saturday night doesn't mean a vote of confidence for CCP.

What it probably means is that the players who have unsubbed are getting the most out of their characters, or putting their respective houses in order, before the subscriptions run out. Some want to go and see a protest, and some are undoubtedly trying to persuade their corps to leave.

Nothing the player community does will hurt CCP now. But in 3/6/12 months time, when all those subscriptions don't come back, then it'll hurt like hell.

The thing is, companies work on forecasts. They budget on them, invest on them and plan on them. So, if the forecast looks like a cliff edge then they'll be limited in what they can do going forward, and investment won't be forthcoming.

Reputation is also key. People won't want to play (or, maybe invest in) a CCP game if they've shown contempt to their player base in the past. Reviews are read and recommendations are made based on past performance. CCP aren't scoring very high right now, and it will be remembered. Plus other companies are watching this and may see an opportunity to get in on the Internet Spaceships theme.

So, 47000 now but in a year or so... probably less than half that. Unless CCP can turn it around, of course. Most players, I would think, want to resub and carry on, but only if CCP stop treating the player base like a cash cow and start acting responsibly.

That's just my opinion.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:15:00 - [2675]
 

Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 25/06/2011 23:17:48
Originally by: Jannx
Just a small point that's going to get lost in all this nonsense, but 47000 logins on a Saturday night doesn't mean a vote of confidence for CCP.

What it probably means is that the players who have unsubbed are getting the most out of their characters, or putting their respective houses in order, before the subscriptions run out. Some want to go and see a protest, and some are undoubtedly trying to persuade their corps to leave.

Nothing the player community does will hurt CCP now. But in 3/6/12 months time, when all those subscriptions don't come back, then it'll hurt like hell.

The thing is, companies work on forecasts. They budget on them, invest on them and plan on them. So, if the forecast looks like a cliff edge then they'll be limited in what they can do going forward, and investment won't be forthcoming.

Reputation is also key. People won't want to play (or, maybe invest in) a CCP game if they've shown contempt to their player base in the past. Reviews are read and recommendations are made based on past performance. CCP aren't scoring very high right now, and it will be remembered. Plus other companies are watching this and may see an opportunity to get in on the Internet Spaceships theme.

So, 47000 now but in a year or so... probably less than half that. Unless CCP can turn it around, of course. Most players, I would think, want to resub and carry on, but only if CCP stop treating the player base like a cash cow and start acting responsibly.

That's just my opinion.


Well said.

If CCP want to listen to us then they're going to have to *massively* downsize.
They can't listen to us or do any work on EveOnline with the current structure dedicated towards other products.

edit: i.e. RUN A SUBSCRIPTION BUSINESS. Where subscriptions cover costs and provide food for devs/CEOs/CFOs and whoever else likes eating food.

edit edit: AND some testosterone shots for Hilmar so when the bankers say "we want to see 5% growth every single year" he can say "we're not in that business **** off"

Enaria Ferenic
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:17:00 - [2676]
 

Originally by: Jannx
Just a small point that's going to get lost in all this nonsense, but 47000 logins on a Saturday night doesn't mean a vote of confidence for CCP.

What it probably means is that the players who have unsubbed are getting the most out of their characters, or putting their respective houses in order, before the subscriptions run out. Some want to go and see a protest, and some are undoubtedly trying to persuade their corps to leave.

Nothing the player community does will hurt CCP now. But in 3/6/12 months time, when all those subscriptions don't come back, then it'll hurt like hell.

The thing is, companies work on forecasts. They budget on them, invest on them and plan on them. So, if the forecast looks like a cliff edge then they'll be limited in what they can do going forward, and investment won't be forthcoming.

Reputation is also key. People won't want to play (or, maybe invest in) a CCP game if they've shown contempt to their player base in the past. Reviews are read and recommendations are made based on past performance. CCP aren't scoring very high right now, and it will be remembered. Plus other companies are watching this and may see an opportunity to get in on the Internet Spaceships theme.

So, 47000 now but in a year or so... probably less than half that. Unless CCP can turn it around, of course. Most players, I would think, want to resub and carry on, but only if CCP stop treating the player base like a cash cow and start acting responsibly.

That's just my opinion.

Commmon Sense in a world suddenly gone mad, cheers bro.

Amber Villaneous
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:18:00 - [2677]
 

Originally by: Cosmic Raider
CCP you may think that the Incarna roll out was smoothest yet, but its also the first that is killing my computer.

Since the MT leaked document was all theoretical as you say, now is a good time to listen to your customers. I used to think that CCP was different, that the company really cared about their player base. Between the lack of response to the sham Alliance Tourney and this mess, I'm not so sure anymore.




It was not theoretical, look at the wording in the pdf carefully, and the fact they refuse to answer the one simple yes or no question that is really the only thing anyone cares about at this point.

Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:22:00 - [2678]
 

Edited by: Che Biko on 25/06/2011 23:30:56
Hmm, I was wondering why I had Dollars & Cents in my head the last days. Now I've read Greed is Good? and your devblog and I know why. It fits perfectly.

"Fearless is one of our company values. Its also the name of an internal newsletter that has been designed and developed specifically to catalyze discussions on controversial topics. One of the biggest elephants in the room these days, not just for EVE but for the gaming industry as a whole, is virtual goods sales and microtransactions.

Therefore we dedicated an entire issue to exactly that topic. Its worth mentioning that the topic of the issue was "Greed is good?" as a way to ask a question that would then be debated back and forth and often exaggerated purposefully to draw contrasts and make points. The result of that is now widely available on the internet.

The opinions and views expressed in Fearless are just that; opinions and views. They are not CCP policy nor are they a reliable source of CCP views as a company.
"

If that is really true, then I hope your employees are also aware of this (as it seems that not all are, considering the leaking), because with the wordings used it seems like a lot of it has already been decided. I would quote stuff, but at the moment I still wouldn't like to risk a permaban much (is it OK to quote from the Fearless newsletter on the eve-o forums?). I think I'll write a more detailed post later though, I'm still trying to process it all.

For now, let me just say that I used to be glad with the merger of WW and CCP, but now I see where you are taking WoD, I wish it never happened. The RP/immersion side of EVE is an increasingly considerable CCP oversight, but making RPG stand for RealPayingGame...Crying or Very sad Boots that cost more than several battleships? Rolling Eyes Un-podding 'cause you forgot your ammo? And to think i've been looking forward to Incarna since before I subbed.

And whoever thinks that Bloodpool isn't linked to potency (or is important) in WoD is should not be developing this MMO(RPG?). Vampires call blood vitea, cause that's what it is, life. And if it's not in WoD, then you totally don't get this game. Which is odd, considering it's also about near immortal, powerful creatures losing their humanity.

I can understand that you are as likely as anyone else to be brainwashed to believe that our unsustainable "buy happiness, material attachments" economy is the way to go, but as a buddhist communist I'll say; watch The Story of Stuff, Fightclub, American Beauty.
I understand every company is going this fantastic new way to capitalize on products, but I always thought that "because everybody does it" would not be an argument for CCP. Or not an important one anyway.

Really CCP, bringing the worst of the real world, into this universe, and the WoD one. I would go back to tabletop RP if my friends had the time for it. But alas, time is even more valuable than money these days. But you feel to see that. You don't even consider the "little money, little time" category of players, which in my opinion are most deserving of a game where everybody is equal no matter their RL wallets.

*Che Biko looks up > Oh my, and this is just the short version...ugh

Bad Tempered
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:22:00 - [2679]
 

You people crack me up.

Get a grip on reality. CCP owes you spit, and you are not their boss, overlords, whatever. If they don't want to answer questions, that is their prerogative - all your ranting and foot stomping is not going to change that. You all sound like a bunch of 2 year old brats, screaming "I want THIS", "I WANT THAT", crying your eyes out, stomping your feet and generally looking like spoiled little brats.

To those who have unsubbed or threatened to - good riddance. EVE will be a better place without you.

Edward Monton
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:23:00 - [2680]
 

Hey CCP Zulu, since CCP owns all in-game virtual items according to the EULA, wouldn't the real world analogy be that CCP is charging people $1000 just to try on the jeans in the dressing room?

Charun Dyon
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:27:00 - [2681]
 

How dumb and stupid can you be !...

I have already cancelled my 2 accounts, en now started playing Rift. Bye bye Eve Online as this is getting way to ridiculous.

Chrysanthemum Korik
Monocles Of Death
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:27:00 - [2682]
 

Originally by: Bad Tempered
You people crack me up.

Get a grip on reality. CCP owes you spit, and you are not their boss, overlords, whatever. If they don't want to answer questions, that is their prerogative - all your ranting and foot stomping is not going to change that. You all sound like a bunch of 2 year old brats, screaming "I want THIS", "I WANT THAT", crying your eyes out, stomping your feet and generally looking like spoiled little brats.

To those who have unsubbed or threatened to - good riddance. EVE will be a better place without you.



CCP owes its existence to the good will of its players. We are the customers. We are the final arbiters of their success. You have it wrong. You may think we're brats whining, but the way I see it, some people stand up for themselves when someone tries to take advantage of themselves. Other people are suckers.

Amber Villaneous
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:28:00 - [2683]
 

Originally by: Bad Tempered
You people crack me up.

Get a grip on reality. CCP owes you spit, and you are not their boss, overlords, whatever. If they don't want to answer questions, that is their prerogative - all your ranting and foot stomping is not going to change that. You all sound like a bunch of 2 year old brats, screaming "I want THIS", "I WANT THAT", crying your eyes out, stomping your feet and generally looking like spoiled little brats.

To those who have unsubbed or threatened to - good riddance. EVE will be a better place without you.



You are absolutley correct about one part, they have zero obligation to answer any question, I have no obligation to continue giving them my money either. A company without customers tends to no longer be a company.

Abecbu
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:28:00 - [2684]
 

Originally by: Bad Tempered
You people crack me up.

Get a grip on reality. CCP owes you spit, and you are not their boss, overlords, whatever. If they don't want to answer questions, that is their prerogative - all your ranting and foot stomping is not going to change that. You all sound like a bunch of 2 year old brats, screaming "I want THIS", "I WANT THAT", crying your eyes out, stomping your feet and generally looking like spoiled little brats.

To those who have unsubbed or threatened to - good riddance. EVE will be a better place without you.


Jannx
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:35:00 - [2685]
 

Originally by: Bad Tempered
You people crack me up.

Get a grip on reality. CCP owes you spit, and you are not their boss, overlords, whatever. If they don't want to answer questions, that is their prerogative - all your ranting and foot stomping is not going to change that. You all sound like a bunch of 2 year old brats, screaming "I want THIS", "I WANT THAT", crying your eyes out, stomping your feet and generally looking like spoiled little brats.

To those who have unsubbed or threatened to - good riddance. EVE will be a better place without you.



Funny that all the reasoned arguments are coming from the "spoiled little brats" and I've yet to see one posted from the other side of the argument. And I've read all 90 pages so far (it's better entertainment than the TV anyway).

Angry -> Disheartened -> Resigned -> Unsubbed

Kaos Supreme
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:41:00 - [2686]
 

Originally by: Bad Tempered
You people crack me up.

Get a grip on reality. CCP owes you spit, and you are not their boss, overlords, whatever. If they don't want to answer questions, that is their prerogative - all your ranting and foot stomping is not going to change that. You all sound like a bunch of 2 year old brats, screaming "I want THIS", "I WANT THAT", crying your eyes out, stomping your feet and generally looking like spoiled little brats.

To those who have unsubbed or threatened to - good riddance. EVE will be a better place without you.



WRONG. They owe us EVERYTHING! We are the PAYING customers. Without us, there is NO Eve Online. The one who needs to get a grip on reality is YOU.


>

WE DO NOT WANT MICRO-TRANSACTIONS FOR NON VANITY ITEMS!

FIX THE ****IN LAG SO THAT MAJOR ALLIANCES CAN ACTUALLY ENGAGE IS TACTICAL/STRATEGICAL FLEET COMBAT(As advertised)WITHOUT LAG BEING THE DECIDING FACTOR!

DO AWAY WITH ALL FORMS OF BOTTIN / MACRO !

Eaturmoma
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:42:00 - [2687]
 

i am not complaining , i like the begining of this station walking. i will complane about the new items vanity items its non sence when an eye patch cost 1.6 billion ( plex sell for 380 mill on the low side, and 1 plex = 3,500 aur those numbers are nuts. that one eye patch cost 12,000 aur thats a bit less than 4 plex . the cloths are just as bad, that eye patch cost slightly less than a fully fitted mac, im fully into the greed in game.
I liked this game cause it takes more than a week to get good at it.It is a game that takes time unlike console games 2 to 3 days and it done they cost 60.00 dollars and have little to no value for the money. I know people who have been playing eve for 5+ years and still dont know it all that is what i loved about eve.

Abecbu
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:42:00 - [2688]
 

Originally by: Jannx
Originally by: Bad Tempered
You people crack me up.

Get a grip on reality. CCP owes you spit, and you are not their boss, overlords, whatever. If they don't want to answer questions, that is their prerogative - all your ranting and foot stomping is not going to change that. You all sound like a bunch of 2 year old brats, screaming "I want THIS", "I WANT THAT", crying your eyes out, stomping your feet and generally looking like spoiled little brats.

To those who have unsubbed or threatened to - good riddance. EVE will be a better place without you.



Funny that all the reasoned arguments are coming from the "spoiled little brats" and I've yet to see one posted from the other side of the argument. And I've read all 90 pages so far (it's better entertainment than the TV anyway).

Angry -> Disheartened -> Resigned -> Unsubbed


Originally by: Abecbu
First off...

Thank you for having some balls and not giving into the whiners like every other MMO!

Second so what if you can buy ships and ammo with real money?! If you tried to "cheat" by buying ships you can't yet effectively use, you'll just be an easy target for people that know how to play. You can do that anyway right now. Someone please go buy and plex and sell it to get that battleship you can barely fly.

The only caveat to this is an item could be reprocessed to gain raw minerals.
SOLUTION: Make items bought through the exchange not be able to be reprocessed.


And if they release a ship that is better than any other normally bought ship just buy some plex with isk and get it. Your not forced to spend real money for anything on the exchange.

Another caveat, this could potentially hurt ship builders since there could be less demand for the normally built ships.
SOLUTION: Only sell blueprints for ships, ammo, or anything not vanity. This also introduces these items to be bought for normal isk.


Main Point: No one is being forced to spend any real money on these items and people doing so is no different than trading plex for isk to buy current items. Also, with a few rules in place the "normal" economy shouldn't be affected.

Leavers hurry up and leave.

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:44:00 - [2689]
 

Edited by: Consortium Agent on 25/06/2011 23:51:04
Edited by: Consortium Agent on 25/06/2011 23:45:26
Just in case there is anyone who still thinks CCP isn't hell bent on charging their players more money for 'enhanced gaming experiences' or as we'll call them now, pay to win MT items, might I point you to Subscription 2.0? Circa 2008:

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=549

Edit: Added URL

NOTE: This was an "April Fools' joke. Note the date of the post. It was meant to be a 'joke'. But, it does have uncanny parallels in what they are probably really thinking now.

TBH, I'd rather have Subscription 2.0 if they did go there. :P

Abecbu
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:47:00 - [2690]
 

Originally by: Consortium Agent
Edited by: Consortium Agent on 25/06/2011 23:45:26
Just in case there is anyone who still thinks CCP isn't hell bent on charging their players more money for 'enhanced gaming experiences' or as we'll call them now, pay to win MT items, might I point you to Subscription 2.0? Circa 2008:

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=549

Edit: Added URL





Really? 4/1/2008

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:53:00 - [2691]
 

Originally by: Abecbu
Originally by: Consortium Agent
Edited by: Consortium Agent on 25/06/2011 23:45:26
Just in case there is anyone who still thinks CCP isn't hell bent on charging their players more money for 'enhanced gaming experiences' or as we'll call them now, pay to win MT items, might I point you to Subscription 2.0? Circa 2008:

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=549

Edit: Added URL





Really? 4/1/2008


Yeah, sorry, meant to say that and just realized I didn't. Was corrected moments later. Damn get to happy with 'Post Reply' button keep forgetting to preview lol.

Abecbu
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:55:00 - [2692]
 

I just saw like 3 people use it has an argument earlier and I happen to be online this time :P

Jannx
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:57:00 - [2693]
 

Originally by: Abecbu
Originally by: Jannx
Originally by: Bad Tempered
You people crack me up.

Get a grip on reality. CCP owes you spit, and you are not their boss, overlords, whatever. If they don't want to answer questions, that is their prerogative - all your ranting and foot stomping is not going to change that. You all sound like a bunch of 2 year old brats, screaming "I want THIS", "I WANT THAT", crying your eyes out, stomping your feet and generally looking like spoiled little brats.

To those who have unsubbed or threatened to - good riddance. EVE will be a better place without you.



Funny that all the reasoned arguments are coming from the "spoiled little brats" and I've yet to see one posted from the other side of the argument. And I've read all 90 pages so far (it's better entertainment than the TV anyway).

Angry -> Disheartened -> Resigned -> Unsubbed


Originally by: Abecbu
First off...

Thank you for having some balls and not giving into the whiners like every other MMO!

Second so what if you can buy ships and ammo with real money?! If you tried to "cheat" by buying ships you can't yet effectively use, you'll just be an easy target for people that know how to play. You can do that anyway right now. Someone please go buy and plex and sell it to get that battleship you can barely fly.

The only caveat to this is an item could be reprocessed to gain raw minerals.
SOLUTION: Make items bought through the exchange not be able to be reprocessed.


And if they release a ship that is better than any other normally bought ship just buy some plex with isk and get it. Your not forced to spend real money for anything on the exchange.

Another caveat, this could potentially hurt ship builders since there could be less demand for the normally built ships.
SOLUTION: Only sell blueprints for ships, ammo, or anything not vanity. This also introduces these items to be bought for normal isk.


Main Point: No one is being forced to spend any real money on these items and people doing so is no different than trading plex for isk to buy current items. Also, with a few rules in place the "normal" economy shouldn't be affected.

Leavers hurry up and leave.



So you're saying we should pay for one bent trading practice with another bent trading practice? I thought ISK was supposed to be earned in the game by playing the game. But what do I know? It's nice that CCP created a way to get bragging rights for lazy people.

Rolling Eyes

I've always thought there should be a moratorium on selling PLEX for ISK for at least six months after it was registered. Don't know if that would work. Somebody will probably point out the reason to me. But now I'm going to bed.

Grash Freedom
Gallente
I Maza
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:01:00 - [2694]
 

Edited by: Grash Freedom on 26/06/2011 00:03:52


this is the first dev block i read and said "wtf"

pointless, it doesn't explain anything, other than a view that somehow fantasy virtual avatars should compare clothes as in real life, well ccp i ll give a hint, 90% if not more of your clients are males. fashion and males do not get along.

as for the fearless, obviously when you ask a question to your own staff there will be different opinions, but what if you haven't asked? what if you kept your promise? when a question arise in human brain that had not occured before then the question creates ideas, direction and thus opinions.

you have asked the wrong question CCP

as for the most smooth and successful expansion, my pc bets against you.
incarna is unplayable unless your tower is on different room than the screen, i quite like having the ability to hear and also my nerves in place, (i7 with gtx 285 rig , not an old joke pc)
so we are left with the ONLY option to NOT load incarna,

other than that, i see no expansion, just wasted resources, you made something that IT DOESN'T work (or when it does it kills my gpu) and you call this free expansion, well it isn't

it is not free
it is not an expansion

In order to name an expansion successful, you only need one simple question

QUESTION:
what gameplay incarna have added to my playerbase?

Answer:
None

success lvl:
0

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:03:00 - [2695]
 

Originally by: Abecbu
I just saw like 3 people use it has an argument earlier and I happen to be online this time :P


Haha yeah - good catch :) Thanks for pointing it out :)

Khaos Wildfire
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:08:00 - [2696]
 

I'm not sure how this addresses why I can't load the Captain's Quarters and if you are going to make it an optional feature.






Io Koval
Gallente
T.R.I.A.D
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:10:00 - [2697]
 

Originally by: CCP Manifest
CCP Zulu speaks on the Fearless newsletter and Monocles in this dev blog.


The paragraphs on "Pricing Structure" were absolutely terrible.

People have been shocked by the price range in the NeX store, but you should remember that we are talking about video games. Look at the video games you are currently playing in real life. Do you have any specific games? Did you choose it because it was better quality than a no-name game? Assume for a short while that you are playing a $1,000 game from some exclusive Icelandic Gaming Company. Why would you want to play a $1,000 game when you can get perfectly similar games for under $50? What do other people think about you when they see you playing them? For some you will look like the sad culmination of vainness while others will admire you and think you are the coolest thing since sliced bread. Whichever it is, it is clear that by playing video games you are expressing yourself and that the price is one of the many dimensions that video games possess to do that in addition to style and graphics. You don't need to buy expensive video games. In fact you don't need to buy any video games. Whatever you choose to do reflects what you are and what you want others to think you are.

So CCP, can you really blame those who are taking your exact philosophy and turning it against you?

Nijaza
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:17:00 - [2698]
 

For the longest time people complained about not enough incarna information, NOW IT IS HERE and everyone has turned into whining babies. Ive never seen such WAA WAA WAA. Can everyone grow up? This game IS AWESOME!

Raz Xym
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:20:00 - [2699]
 

CCP management seems to view their customers as predictible cash cows puppets. Their public messages seem to have visions of grandeur and issues with denial. These are treatable, but they need to seek professional help soon.

Cindercone
Posted - 2011.06.26 00:27:00 - [2700]
 

Well, this whole thing is a tricky subject on any MMO anywhere on the internet atm....

My OP is:
If virtual purchase for cash is limited to Pets, Clothes, things that DO NOT AFFECT GAME PLAY - then whatever, does not affect me.
BUT, the DAY YOU HAVE TO SPEND CASH JUST TO COMPETE IN THE GAME I PAY CASH FOR EVERY MONTH - that is the day I quit and find somewhere else to spend my money.

I have no issues with cash for paint jobs, clothes, etc... but when it goes beyond that - well, they are saying that the subscription every month is just not enough to pay the greed or the fees - does not matter to me. If they need more to keep it running, raise the fee's do not make it a 'If you want to pay more, you can own everyone' competition, that would and does truly suck (in life, in a game, everywhere).


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