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Caiden Baxter
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:36:00 - [2521]
 

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Is the moneybin too shallow CCP ? Need a bigger one perhaps.

4N631
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:36:00 - [2522]
 

No. In what alternative world are you living?
Real life comparison is wrong at so many level...
This pretty much confirms it in my mind. The number 1 question being asked remains completely unanswered.

Kinori Kalrath
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:39:00 - [2523]
 

Originally by: Black Dranzer
Quote:
which by the way is one of our more smooth and successful expansions

No.



Hahaha, yeah i laughed when i saw that line, " real smooth and successful expansion mr ccp man! " :)

NellieLovett
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:47:00 - [2524]
 


Shaemell Buttleson
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:50:00 - [2525]
 

"You don't need to buy expensive clothes. In fact you don't need to buy any clothes. Whatever you choose to do reflects what you are and what you want others to think you are."

Even if you were to wear the most expensive jeans for sale anywhere do you expect PPL to think you are anything but a greedy bastard?


Jake Maverick
Gallente
X11 Assault and Recon
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:50:00 - [2526]
 

It just occured to me you can Already buy SP for real $$

Step 1 Start an account
Step 2 Buy a mess of PLEX
Step 3 Sell PLEX
Step 4 Buy a High SP toon from someone else

::looks around:: games doesn't look to be broken by that yet.... And if people can use AUR to buy special ammo or ships... I am sure those will land on the open isk market eventually so just do a couple more missions, buy it, and be happy... OR better yet, just start a corp whose purpose is to war dec and gank everyone who you see in an AUR ship Twisted Evil <- (totally ok By EvE's rules) AS for CQ I Friggen love it, but thats because my PC is fairly good I get about 45 FPS in my CQ. I can imagine people with min spec PC's would like the old hangar back... CCP, can we get that option please before one of these fine people have an anurism?

Shooter McGavvin
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:51:00 - [2527]
 

Originally by: Hyperforce99
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Eladaris

When CCP tried to introduce the Ishukone Watch Scorpion earlier this month as a ship produced from thin air, with no player involvement, for AUR... that didn't steal anything AT ALL from the players.

Sure, no one had to mine the minerals to produce the IW Scorpion, and no one had to buy the BPC and research it, nor mine the ice and spin the PI buttons to fuel that research.

No one had to load the raw materials into the manufacturing slots, nor drag it to a market hub, nor sell it (hopefully at a profit).

Instead a CCP dev simply had to pick a sexy new color scheme, and mass produce an unlimited number for profit.

Sure, we threw a fit and CCP promised to push back the deployment of the IW Scorpion for a few months... That didn't hurt us at all, we won!

But now... with this? CCP has well over 43,000 players happily playing Eve online as I write this. We lost, they won. The rest is just hang-wringing while the addicts try to come up with excuses to allow themselves to re-sub for another few years.

You're purposely blinding yourself to the reality of the day. The only reason there hasn't been a massive exodus yet, is that people are still awaiting an official reply regarding MT for ingame advantages. And that is PRECISELY the reason CCP haven't answered on the matter yet. When they start selling faction standing for Aurum, or super supercaps, or better-than-in-game battleships, or even regular economy-wrecking 'out of thin air' ships, I can guarantee you EVE will die shortly thereafter. And not even because people will run away screaming (many will, in fact); but simply because doing so will break the game on such a fundamental level, that, like Humptydumpty, it can't be put together again -- short of removing all 'Aurum for ingame advantages' trading.


Actually I recall that Ishukonen watch scorpion wasn't more than a re-skin or a paint job. The ships statistics would have been identical.
Players would still trade in a real scorpion battleship for the Ishukonen
Watch Scorpion

Selling paint jobs?

Max Von Sydow
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:52:00 - [2528]
 

Originally by: Jake Maverick
It just occured to me you can Already buy SP for real $$

Step 1 Start an account
Step 2 Buy a mess of PLEX
Step 3 Sell PLEX
Step 4 Buy a High SP toon from someone else

::looks around:: games doesn't look to be broken by that yet.... And if people can use AUR to buy special ammo or ships... I am sure those will land on the open isk market eventually so just do a couple more missions, buy it, and be happy... OR better yet, just start a corp whose purpose is to war dec and gank everyone who you see in an AUR ship Twisted Evil <- (totally ok By EvE's rules) AS for CQ I Friggen love it, but thats because my PC is fairly good I get about 45 FPS in my CQ. I can imagine people with min spec PC's would like the old hangar back... CCP, can we get that option please before one of these fine people have an anurism?
'


The difference is that when you buy a char from another player using isk you got from selling a PLEX, the isk comes from and go to other players.

Amber Villaneous
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:53:00 - [2529]
 

Edited by: Amber Villaneous on 25/06/2011 16:54:36
Originally by: Jake Maverick
It just occured to me you can Already buy SP for real $$

Step 1 Start an account
Step 2 Buy a mess of PLEX
Step 3 Sell PLEX
Step 4 Buy a High SP toon from someone else

::looks around:: games doesn't look to be broken by that yet.... And if people can use AUR to buy special ammo or ships... I am sure those will land on the open isk market eventually so just do a couple more missions, buy it, and be happy... OR better yet, just start a corp whose purpose is to war dec and gank everyone who you see in an AUR ship Twisted Evil <- (totally ok By EvE's rules) AS for CQ I Friggen love it, but thats because my PC is fairly good I get about 45 FPS in my CQ. I can imagine people with min spec PC's would like the old hangar back... CCP, can we get that option please before one of these fine people have an anurism?


You are obviously are a mouthbreather that cannot think beyond your next meal. Go learn about economics/trade and then come back.

Jake Maverick
Gallente
X11 Assault and Recon
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:54:00 - [2530]
 

Originally by: Max Von Sydow
Originally by: Jake Maverick
It just occured to me you can Already buy SP for real $$

Step 1 Start an account
Step 2 Buy a mess of PLEX
Step 3 Sell PLEX
Step 4 Buy a High SP toon from someone else

::looks around:: games doesn't look to be broken by that yet.... And if people can use AUR to buy special ammo or ships... I am sure those will land on the open isk market eventually so just do a couple more missions, buy it, and be happy... OR better yet, just start a corp whose purpose is to war dec and gank everyone who you see in an AUR ship Twisted Evil <- (totally ok By EvE's rules) AS for CQ I Friggen love it, but thats because my PC is fairly good I get about 45 FPS in my CQ. I can imagine people with min spec PC's would like the old hangar back... CCP, can we get that option please before one of these fine people have an anurism?
'


The difference is that when you buy a char from another player using isk you got from selling a PLEX, the isk comes from and go to other players.
But... CCP were the only ones to get real money in EITHER case... so the only difference is that no anonymous player benefits from some other anonymous players greed? I Fail to see where that breaks anything. I just feel like we are making mountains out of molehills

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:54:00 - [2531]
 


Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:57:00 - [2532]
 

Originally by: Jake Maverick
I Fail to see where that breaks anything. I just feel like we are making mountains out of molehills


This might help explain the new business model.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/yellow2/crimeCycle_1.jpg

Jake Maverick
Gallente
X11 Assault and Recon
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:58:00 - [2533]
 

Originally by: Amber Villaneous
Edited by: Amber Villaneous on 25/06/2011 16:54:36
Originally by: Jake Maverick
It just occured to me you can Already buy SP for real $$

Step 1 Start an account
Step 2 Buy a mess of PLEX
Step 3 Sell PLEX
Step 4 Buy a High SP toon from someone else

::looks around:: games doesn't look to be broken by that yet.... And if people can use AUR to buy special ammo or ships... I am sure those will land on the open isk market eventually so just do a couple more missions, buy it, and be happy... OR better yet, just start a corp whose purpose is to war dec and gank everyone who you see in an AUR ship Twisted Evil <- (totally ok By EvE's rules) AS for CQ I Friggen love it, but thats because my PC is fairly good I get about 45 FPS in my CQ. I can imagine people with min spec PC's would like the old hangar back... CCP, can we get that option please before one of these fine people have an anurism?


You are obviously are a mouthbreather that cannot think beyond your next meal. Go learn about economics/trade and then come back.

Wow Amber, you are clearly a pargon of perspicacity!! That was the most intelligent and well thought out response I've ever read. Thank you for educating me. I'm sure flaming a random player on the forum will REALLY show CCP how angry you are at them... tool...

Amber Villaneous
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:01:00 - [2534]
 

Originally by: Jake Maverick
Originally by: Amber Villaneous
Edited by: Amber Villaneous on 25/06/2011 16:54:36
Originally by: Jake Maverick
It just occured to me you can Already buy SP for real $$

Step 1 Start an account
Step 2 Buy a mess of PLEX
Step 3 Sell PLEX
Step 4 Buy a High SP toon from someone else

::looks around:: games doesn't look to be broken by that yet.... And if people can use AUR to buy special ammo or ships... I am sure those will land on the open isk market eventually so just do a couple more missions, buy it, and be happy... OR better yet, just start a corp whose purpose is to war dec and gank everyone who you see in an AUR ship Twisted Evil <- (totally ok By EvE's rules) AS for CQ I Friggen love it, but thats because my PC is fairly good I get about 45 FPS in my CQ. I can imagine people with min spec PC's would like the old hangar back... CCP, can we get that option please before one of these fine people have an anurism?


You are obviously are a mouthbreather that cannot think beyond your next meal. Go learn about economics/trade and then come back.

Wow Amber, you are clearly a pargon of perspicacity!! That was the most intelligent and well thought out response I've ever read. Thank you for educating me. I'm sure flaming a random player on the forum will REALLY show CCP how angry you are at them... tool...


Thany you for your response, mostly for sucking up CCPs bandwidth and server space.

Jake Maverick
Gallente
X11 Assault and Recon
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:03:00 - [2535]
 

Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Jake Maverick
I Fail to see where that breaks anything. I just feel like we are making mountains out of molehills


This might help explain the new business model.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/yellow2/crimeCycle_1.jpg
People do that now... They have been using ISK to make real money for the last... How long has EvE been live? Let's not grandstand about how we think it is opening an avenue for RMT criminals. And lets talk about the real issue. Everyone is angry because they expected these features to be part of the free expansion model, but CCP found a loophole in that model that lets them collect more money for game features. So everyone is angry that a Company is doing whats best for...a Company and not what people on this threadnaught want. Do I think CCP is right? No... do I think it's ultimately no big deal? yes... Do I think flaming this thread with insults about CCP employees will get what we want... no...

Larik Olen
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:04:00 - [2536]
 

They didn't answer our questions, they fobbed us off with this insulting devblog.

NO TO MICROTRANSACTIONS! SAVE EVE!

Kalmanaka
Caldari
Eve Engineering Operations
Eve Engineering
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:06:00 - [2537]
 

Originally by: Jake Maverick
It just occured to me you can Already buy SP for real $$

Step 1 Start an account
Step 2 Buy a mess of PLEX
Step 3 Sell PLEX
Step 4 Buy a High SP toon from someone else

::looks around:: games doesn't look to be broken by that yet.... And if people can use AUR to buy special ammo or ships... I am sure those will land on the open isk market eventually so just do a couple more missions, buy it, and be happy... OR better yet, just start a corp whose purpose is to war dec and gank everyone who you see in an AUR ship Twisted Evil <- (totally ok By EvE's rules) AS for CQ I Friggen love it, but thats because my PC is fairly good I get about 45 FPS in my CQ. I can imagine people with min spec PC's would like the old hangar back... CCP, can we get that option please before one of these fine people have an anurism?


Thanks for totally failing to notice that the toon you bought was created by a player over a long period of time. It didn't appear out of thin air. The isk you used to buy that character didn't necessarily come from plex either. You could have earned it by playing the game and either way that isk goes to another player, not to CCP. Your analogy is full of fail.

Jake Maverick
Gallente
X11 Assault and Recon
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:09:00 - [2538]
 

Originally by: Kalmanaka
Originally by: Jake Maverick
It just occured to me you can Already buy SP for real $$

Step 1 Start an account
Step 2 Buy a mess of PLEX
Step 3 Sell PLEX
Step 4 Buy a High SP toon from someone else

::looks around:: games doesn't look to be broken by that yet.... And if people can use AUR to buy special ammo or ships... I am sure those will land on the open isk market eventually so just do a couple more missions, buy it, and be happy... OR better yet, just start a corp whose purpose is to war dec and gank everyone who you see in an AUR ship Twisted Evil <- (totally ok By EvE's rules) AS for CQ I Friggen love it, but thats because my PC is fairly good I get about 45 FPS in my CQ. I can imagine people with min spec PC's would like the old hangar back... CCP, can we get that option please before one of these fine people have an anurism?


Thanks for totally failing to notice that the toon you bought was created by a player over a long period of time. It didn't appear out of thin air. The isk you used to buy that character didn't necessarily come from plex either. You could have earned it by playing the game and either way that isk goes to another player, not to CCP. Your analogy is full of fail.
I didn't buy this toon. Or any other toon. I have sold one though. I've been playing since 2008 whan the salesman where I bought my car told me about it during the test drive. I've loved the game ever since. Sure I will be angry about the months I spent on Gal BS lvl 5 and all my T2 Large Turret based weapon skills etc... if someone can buy those SP for money.... ALL I am saying is that it's not too far from what they can do now anyway...

Sparkamatron
Caldari
Union Of EVE
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:09:00 - [2539]
 

Nice blog. If you want to **** off your customers that is. Otherwise it was rather pointless and totally missed the point in my humbe opinion.

1Of9
Gallente
The Circle
White Noise.
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:09:00 - [2540]
 

I dont feel any sorry for ccp whatsoever.

this is the direct result of getting goons working in ccp.

enjoy.

Meta2
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:14:00 - [2541]
 

WOW CCP gets into the fashion industry... and the whole I am better than you because I am wearing a $ 1,000 pair of virtual jeans. Geeezz... I can think of dozens of game improvements that need to be made and instead we get this... fashion snootiness in a space game. If I want that I will go someplace with people in tuxedos while I am in tattered shorts and a biker shirt with my gut exposed.

How about some playability improvements? Like maybe a POS ship log? Ships coming/going and pilot...time in/time out... pretty basic but it would stop the BS about not knowing who took what and maybe stop the endless BS that thievery and thievery accusations cause.

How about making the bookmark system better? You would think that in a wormhole or empire space a ship could automatically transmit bookmarks to a POS central computer which would then upload those bookmarks to all corp ships within that system. Basic... but a major timesaver and eliminates a major annoyance of using cans for bookmarks. After all missions upload bm's to your neocom.

Geez... and the new currency is BS. A customization store is fine... but it should use ISK.


Sakura Zendragon
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:17:00 - [2542]
 

Edited by: Sakura Zendragon on 25/06/2011 17:17:57

Just saw this on twitter. It just keeps getting better and better...

Quote:
*facepalm* // RT @Babar1050: RT This is a joke right? @LadyCasseris @helicityboson http://i.imgur.com/RqKdl.png #tweetfleet


Now you attack the honesty of your (former) customers?

For shame...

SgtHartman
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:18:00 - [2543]
 


Jai Jones
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:18:00 - [2544]
 

Did CCP really release this drivel? Are you deliberatelly trying to get people to un-sub... is that your "master" plan for dealing with fleet lag?

Mars Theran
Caldari
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:19:00 - [2545]
 

Real world comparison makes perfect sense. If it's such an expensive item, (and btw, they sell aluminum jewelry in some places for hundreds of dollars, to the rich and extravagant), then less people will own one. It has to do with availability, and results in only the truly wealthy forking out their shillings for it, while other people scoff or scorn at the thought.

Could use a minor price nerf, but if they don't it doesn't really matter. It's what separates the truly rich, from the common folk; things which despite being of comparable quality, cost a great deal more.

Sanadoon1
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:25:00 - [2546]
 

I am very concerned and upset with CCP as a company. Their attempts at public relations have been a joke and they seem to enjoy hurting and frustrating their customers. Unfortunately, they also seem unwilling to pay attention to any comments or opinions from their customers. The only question I have at this moment is what can I do, as an individual, to make my voice heard? This post probably won't be noticed or cared about. CCP has repeatedly shown that the CSM's opinions are ignored, subscription cancellation hurts me as much as them. What can I do? Should I write a letter? Go down to the office in Atlanta and make somebody deal with a person face to face?

CCP, tell me what can I do so that you listen to your customers!

CCP Zulu's dev blog also shows extreme disconnect with your players and the leaked email shows how little you care about them. I would be ashamed to break the trust of all these people and by all the frustration and anger that you have personally caused.

I am angry and looking for a way to show CCP that I am so.

RAW23
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:28:00 - [2547]
 

Edited by: RAW23 on 25/06/2011 17:30:46
Originally by: Jake Maverick
It just occured to me you can Already buy SP for real $$

Step 1 Start an account
Step 2 Buy a mess of PLEX
Step 3 Sell PLEX
Step 4 Buy a High SP toon from someone else

::looks around:: games doesn't look to be broken by that yet.... And if people can use AUR to buy special ammo or ships... I am sure those will land on the open isk market eventually so just do a couple more missions, buy it, and be happy... OR better yet, just start a corp whose purpose is to war dec and gank everyone who you see in an AUR ship Twisted Evil <- (totally ok By EvE's rules) AS for CQ I Friggen love it, but thats because my PC is fairly good I get about 45 FPS in my CQ. I can imagine people with min spec PC's would like the old hangar back... CCP, can we get that option please before one of these fine people have an anurism?


Selling plex introduces an input into the economy that has no ingame effect, the plex, and that disappears from the game with use. So the introduction and use of plex does not add or remove anything else from the economy. Isk that is already in the economy will circulate when plexes are bought and sold ingame but the amount of isk in the game remains the same. Now, this does allow people to spend real life cash and buy ingame advantages BUT it does so in a way that doesn't introduce alien elements into the (relatively) closed system of the economy. In addition, plex does something that could not be done in any other way and is, thus, a special case. The purpose of plex is to allow people to play for free and to limit the profitability of rmt and botting. There is no non-MT way of reaching those goals so most people are willing to accept that people will be able to buy an advantage as a necessary evil in exchange for the positives that plex provides for the community.

MT for vanity, power and convenience, on the other hand, is not the only way to introduce those additional items into the game. They could equally well be introduced as normal items, so there is no claim of a necessary evil here. In addition, the production of items out of thin air introduces alien elements into the economy, elements that could, potentially, have ingame effects but that are not built by players (and the current batch seem to be indestructible as well). A third issue is that of resource distribution: not only are CCP introducing something that is not a necessary evil that is balanced by providng something extra to the community, they are actually introducing this new content at the expense of the community since development time and effort are being spent on these features rather than non-MT features. And this leads onto a fourth point that once CCP have decided to monetise power and convenience they then have reasons to REMOVE functionality from the core game in order to sell it back for extra money (for instance, the removal of the ability to store more than 50 ship fittings has been removed but the CCP newsletter discusses selling precisely that for people who will pay more).

Edit - But personally I think most of the rage is due to CCP's attitude towards its player base rather than the specific features being implemented. Players used to love CCP as a company but their contempuous arrogance has turned that love to hate over a period of time for many people. This has all been brewing for a while and the stuff around the Incrna release is the straw(s) that broke the camel's back.

Marcus Vorenius
Caldari
Task Force 42
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:29:00 - [2548]
 

History repeats itself: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1354510&page=57#1682

SCRUM: "deliver value early and often"

"If there is a long-term cunning plan in the works for the person/avatar stuff, then it would still be "intangible benefits" in the business case. However, if they have the cash and the stomach for it - and that's where they want to go - then that's the business case.

btw: please fix my rockets"

TL;DR I guess there was a cunning plan, but question is still the same as a year ago: do they have the cash and the stomach?

Amber Villaneous
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:30:00 - [2549]
 

Edited by: Amber Villaneous on 25/06/2011 17:31:40
Originally by: Jake Maverick
I didn't buy this toon. Or any other toon. I have sold one though. I've been playing since 2008 whan the salesman where I bought my car told me about it during the test drive. I've loved the game ever since. Sure I will be angry about the months I spent on Gal BS lvl 5 and all my T2 Large Turret based weapon skills etc... if someone can buy those SP for money.... ALL I am saying is that it's not too far from what they can do now anyway...


I'll try again. It is WAY far away from what can be done now.

When you by that GTC, yes real money goes to CCP, that is great they are a business and need to make real money.

When you turn that GTC into PLEX and sell it there is a player buying it, either for investment or gametime. That player played the game to get that ISK. You are not selling that PLEX to an NPC and creating ISK out of nothing.

Anything that you purchase with that ISK was made/aquired via current ingame mechanics by people playing the game or the few NPC items left in the market such BPOs.

Even of you use that ISK to buy a character you are buying someone elses time and effort and nothing has changed ingame except the guy behind the keyboard controlling that character.

Saying that you can already buy an adavantage is true in the sense that the individual player can IF there is a buyer for the PLEX and THEN someone is selling something already in the game that has been made/aquired cia current mechanics. In the larger sense it is not true to the sandbox as a whole because all that is happening is the trasnsfer of already existing gametime/ISK/SP/items that already exist.

Once real money can instantly spawn IWIN out of thin air the sandbox is dead. EVE will still be around, for awhile, for those that don't care or have a large disposable income to spend on IWIN items. Until the only people left playing are the people shooting IWIN ammo at each other.

At that point how long will it be profitable to reboot the server everyday. If CCP can make that work YAY for them, I won't be around for it tho so NOTYAY for me.



TheButcherPete
StoneWall Metals Productions
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:32:00 - [2550]
 

Originally by: Sanadoon1
I am very concerned and upset with CCP as a company. Their attempts at public relations have been a joke and they seem to enjoy hurting and frustrating their customers. Unfortunately, they also seem unwilling to pay attention to any comments or opinions from their customers. The only question I have at this moment is what can I do, as an individual, to make my voice heard? This post probably won't be noticed or cared about. CCP has repeatedly shown that the CSM's opinions are ignored, subscription cancellation hurts me as much as them. What can I do? Should I write a letter? Go down to the office in Atlanta and make somebody deal with a person face to face?

CCP, tell me what can I do so that you listen to your customers!

CCP Zulu's dev blog also shows extreme disconnect with your players and the leaked email shows how little you care about them. I would be ashamed to break the trust of all these people and by all the frustration and anger that you have personally caused.

I am angry and looking for a way to show CCP that I am so.



Mate, responses like yours that are civil, not filled with "shouting" or curses towards CCP are the kind of responses this thread needs. My reply, your reply and all of the kind "we want to help CCP" posts will be lost in the torrent of pure rage. CCP won't listen to shouting, but posts that are calm despite the players emotion.

I want to see CCP come back as a company that knows it's playerbase.

Just my thoughts, thank you for your post.

-Pete


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