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Odume
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:31:00 - [2491]
 

Edited by: Odume on 25/06/2011 15:33:33
Edited by: Odume on 25/06/2011 15:32:59
Originally by: Sing Xing
Originally by: CCP ZULU

(...)



Virtual goods sales in EVE Online will evolve through sales of vanity items, first in Incarna but later in-space features. The scope will be (and there‘s no design has been done around this, we‘re just talking strategy now) that anything that doesn‘t affect gameplay directly can be, potentially, sold for PLEX or other means. Ideas that have come up include Incarna clothing and furniture, logos on spaceships and swapping out portraits. This is by no means a comprehensive list, nor is it a commitment that said items will be available for sale, I mention these as an example for what type of items we‘re thinking about.





Then let Hilmar reiterate this and the whole ****storm will go away.

QT McWhiskers
EdgeGamers
Situation: Normal
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:33:00 - [2492]
 

Edited by: QT McWhiskers on 25/06/2011 15:35:15
I am a CSR for a fairly large company. There are 3 basic bulletins we are told every single day when we walk in.

New customers need to be told exactly what they want to hear. Existing customers need to be told exactly what they want to hear. Not following rules 1 and 2 will result in loss in revenue for the company.

It is very simple. When you ignore new customers, you lose a sale. When you ignore and simply stop caring about existing customers, you lose much much more. When you fail to close on a new customer, you dont lose anything at all. You lose potential, but that basically translates to losing absolutely nothing. (Think music downloads.)

But when you lose an existing customer, you get a negative on your books. It is as simple as that. Dont ignore your existing consumer base simply because you already have our business. Otherwise you will fall down that dark path that has swallowed up so many MMO companies.

The simple fact that there is an unsub list that has nearly 1k confirmed unsubbed accounts proves that you are already falling that way. Eve online is not played for the game. Not by a longshot. It is played because of the people we play with. If half of your corp suddenly quit because they couldn't stomach it anymore, then you quit too. There is no more reason to play.

I think you are safe from SWTOR taking your customers, if only for the reason that if people hate CCP they certainly hate EA and would not be forced to use origin if it meant the life of their child. But the fact still remains that no one is going to want to play eve online if half the memberbase leaves because they hate the direction you are taking it.

And I can guarantee you that NO ONE is going to play dust if you have PTW model. Simple fact. If halo reach (only thowing out halo cause it is a stupid popular title) had guns and ammo that you could only buy with real money that were used up when you died, or had something else happen, then I can guarantee you that no one would play it. You would have the 100-200 people who spend the money a month in the beginning as they "pwn teh noobs" but that would die out as they realize that no one else is playing and they no longer have a distinct advantage. Its no fun I tellz ya.

If you keep going down this path, I can guarantee you that dust and eve will fall hard. With eve becoming one of those other ftp ptw models like rappelz or fantasy earth zero. I think I have said enough on this topic.

On the risk of sounding like a bandwagoner, I will not unsub unless I see a clear line that CCP crosses. Right now they simply drew it. But if you even push your pinky toe over that line, then I guarantee you that I will unsub. And I will not be the only one. Now saying I have that much influence in the community. I am just saying there are probably hundreds on the fence like I am. And we dont like the feeling of razor wire on our butts.

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:39:00 - [2493]
 

Well that certainly was a waste of a dev blog. You just had to provide simple answers to a few questions, that the CSM apparently provided to you and many forum warriors have spammed all over this and other threads in large colored letters, and you couldn't even do that. You just avoided the actual issues raised and have a bad attitude for some reason. Did you honestly think this would in any way help in this situation?

I just want to know are you abandoning the idea of non-cosmetic/non-vanity MT items for good or not? Simple yes or no answer will do. Anything else won't do and I'll take further attempts of trying to avoid answering or being vague in answering this question as a no.

Morar Santee
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:39:00 - [2494]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Lady Aphra

Having read what appear to be CCP employee comments on www.glassdoor.com, I strongly feel that CCP has an internal business culture issue. I think that the devs, coders, call them what you will, are more in touch with what Eve used to be and what the community wants than the senior management - there is a communications disconnect internally within CCP. This sort of thing I have also seen in RL, and takes a major event to shake the company out of. I suspect that this MT issue (for that is the major issue here, IMO) will not be that major event, huge as it is for those of us in the player base who frequent the forums.

Business culture? Well, what did you expect? Their Chief Financial Officer is Joseph Gallo, former Managing Director at Citibank. That's right, Citibank, recipient of the largest recorded government bailout in history, to the tune of > $300 billion! And he left the company, after 14 years... to go work for CCP.

CCP employees, make no mistake about it, this man will spin you about with stories of golden eggs, and the sky being the limit. But, in the end, you will have your Citigroup: you will have robbed your customers blind, or died trying, but you'll have a sucked-out carcass left, with no one to pick up the bill this time. And Joseph Gallo, I assure you, will have jumped ship long before that.

CCP, please, I urge you, come to your senses!


For the longest time I thought this was a joke. I honestly, honestly could not imagine, not even in my wildest dreams, that anyone in his right mind would give that moron a job again. Ever. Not even as a lavatory attendant, because he'd have to manage money then, possibly.

Guess who picks him up and makes him Chief Financial Officer. Like... really? You could have gone to your nearest public place and picked any person at random - and each of them would have been more qualified than the ****ing idiot who demonstrated beyond the shadow of a doubt he is absolutely incapable of managing any financial institution or company.

Algathas
Minmatar
The Revenge of Auntie Freeze
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:40:00 - [2495]
 

Originally by: Odume
Edited by: Odume on 25/06/2011 15:33:33
Edited by: Odume on 25/06/2011 15:32:59
Originally by: Sing Xing
Originally by: CCP ZULU

(...)



Virtual goods sales in EVE Online will evolve through sales of vanity items, first in Incarna but later in-space features. The scope will be (and there‘s no design has been done around this, we‘re just talking strategy now) that anything that doesn‘t affect gameplay directly can be, potentially, sold for PLEX or other means. Ideas that have come up include Incarna clothing and furniture, logos on spaceships and swapping out portraits. This is by no means a comprehensive list, nor is it a commitment that said items will be available for sale, I mention these as an example for what type of items we‘re thinking about.





Then let Hilmar reiterate this and the whole ****storm will go away.


All that is said here is not "we wont have game play altering MT" but more like "we won't commit to not having gameplay altering MT". They will be happy to reiterate this all day long for you.

electroretard
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:41:00 - [2496]
 

Edited by: electro****** on 25/06/2011 15:41:41
Edited by: electro****** on 25/06/2011 15:41:26
Perpetuum, EvE online clone with robots / mechs.

Devs always respond on forums and listen to the community.

Boy Beater
Counter Errorist Unit Reloaded
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:44:00 - [2497]
 

So...when do we get to read the DevBlog that actually addresses our concerns? Oh and can we get an opt out option for content such as what you just released that does nothing for my game experience, but manages to incredibly degrade my ability to run more than one account simultaneously?

Hyperforce99
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:49:00 - [2498]
 

Edited by: Hyperforce99 on 25/06/2011 15:56:36
This allegedly LEAKED E-MAIL from the CEO of CCP only seems to discuss the prices set forth for the NeX RM store. I couldn't care less about the monocles. I won't be buying them.

Regardless, its not the reason people are angry and dissappointed.
People want assurance that the NeX store will NEVER move beyond vanity (NON GAMEPLAY IMPACTING) items. That all it will be is a store for fluff.

As for the pricing on items.
High prices in the real world are based around either:

  • a rare brand name,


CCP is trying to make a name for the NeX items, but it won't work.

  • a rare limited stock product,


CCP is providing neither of those to its customers. The NeX items are infinite. Everyone in New Eden could have one and there would still be am unlimited supply.

  • extremely high quality products,


The quality of the MONOCLE eyepiece can't from a production point of view be worth more than 80 dollars (its a simple model with a simple shader and some sculpting on the characters face). It can be designed and produced in a few hours time.
Yet CCP is asking the actual initial production cost of the item to everyone who wants to buy it.

  • extremely rare materials,


Its a digital item, there are no rare materials involved.

--------------------------------------------------

CCP is trying to sell something that has no true value for outrageously high prices. While Supply and Demand should tell them that if these items were priced fairly, they would have sold hundreds or thousands of them buy now, and AUR / PLEX prices would have not impacted the market as much as it has.

HILMAR, your experts are clearly incompetent. selling 50 x 80$ over 40 hours. While you could have sold 9000+ x 4$ over the same period of time.

Other games have tried to sell these kinds of items yes, but usually at fair pricing.

  • SECOND LIFE: However in this game items are made by the people that play the game, and they get real money back for it in return. This game is a virtual reality. In EVE CCP is the only company that actually produces these items, and the playerbase is completely different from the one in Second Life. In EVE players value the fact that they have worked hard, or that someone else worked hard to produce or provide a rare battleship, faction ammo, or their standings.


By selling these items from CCP, there is no community involvement anymore and the items would effect gameplay.

  • TEAM FORTRESS 2 & LEAGUE OF LEGENDS: These games offer a NON-PERSISTENT world in which 2 teams of identical characters go head to head. The only reason its worth while to buy these items is because of the meta-gaming. However Incarna does not supply this, and the EVE character creator already gives us a great amount of freedom to customize our characters. There is no incentive to buy any of these items, and god forbid they ever become more than vanity items, as the community would explode on you.

--------------------------------------------------------

Incarna is a game that was launched with the WORST PR & COMMUNICATION ever. Deployment wise it might have gone well.

But there was no proper communication from CCP before or after its launch.
People are having trouble running the Mandatory Captains Quarters / NeX items showcase.


If CCP does not come out soon and puts the player bases concerns to rest, this will all end in tears. LISTEN to your community CCP, they are the ones that made you to what you are today, If you lose their trust completely, you will never get it back.

Public opinion can be easily taken for granted but once tainted will never recover and drive you into the ground. Your subs will drop, and no 80 dollar monocles will save it!
Act NOW, before it is too late.

Hyperforce,

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:51:00 - [2499]
 

Originally by: Eladaris

When CCP tried to introduce the Ishukone Watch Scorpion earlier this month as a ship produced from thin air, with no player involvement, for AUR... that didn't steal anything AT ALL from the players.

Sure, no one had to mine the minerals to produce the IW Scorpion, and no one had to buy the BPC and research it, nor mine the ice and spin the PI buttons to fuel that research.

No one had to load the raw materials into the manufacturing slots, nor drag it to a market hub, nor sell it (hopefully at a profit).

Instead a CCP dev simply had to pick a sexy new color scheme, and mass produce an unlimited number for profit.

Sure, we threw a fit and CCP promised to push back the deployment of the IW Scorpion for a few months... That didn't hurt us at all, we won!

But now... with this? CCP has well over 43,000 players happily playing Eve online as I write this. We lost, they won. The rest is just hang-wringing while the addicts try to come up with excuses to allow themselves to re-sub for another few years.

You're purposely blinding yourself to the reality of the day. The only reason there hasn't been a massive exodus yet, is that people are still awaiting an official reply regarding MT for ingame advantages. And that is PRECISELY the reason CCP haven't answered on the matter yet. When they start selling faction standing for Aurum, or super supercaps, or better-than-in-game battleships, or even regular economy-wrecking 'out of thin air' ships, I can guarantee you EVE will die shortly thereafter. And not even because people will run away screaming (many will, in fact); but simply because doing so will break the game on such a fundamental level, that, like Humptydumpty, it can't be put together again -- short of removing all 'Aurum for ingame advantages' trading.

Worzel Bummage
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:57:00 - [2500]
 

-1 account, im done.

Wurrp
Minmatar
Sadistic Consortium
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:58:00 - [2501]
 

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1536480

^----- This

Yeo San
Neoanarchistic Society
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:59:00 - [2502]
 

Originally by: pipvac
Edited by: pipvac on 25/06/2011 15:18:04
People seem to be missing the point.

Subscribers are buying the virtual goods, and generating incremental revenue for CCP. Customers are behaving in the way CCP's market research predicted. Therefore this expansion is successful.

The vocal playerbase on the forums have spent so long whining about everything, its not surprise that CCP cannot filter the important feedback from the 'predictable' adversity to change.

To this end, the only real measure CCP can use is the rate at which new revenue is generated from their virtual trinkets, and subscriber behaviour, in terms active subscription growth (or decline).

All the evidence suggested so far, in terms of concurrent users logged on, and the leaked email above, would suggest that CCP have provided what the consumer wanted, and those who don't like it, are not moved enough, in significant numbers to adversely affect subscriptions and concurrent users.

It'll be interesting to watch, but it looks as though the 'silent majority' have already given CCP the thumbs up with their purchasing behaviour.

My personal view is CQ is inconsequential to me and my game experience. I have no interest in vanity items, and will not be parting with any cash to buy them. Once CCP introduce "pay2win" items that will be it for me, and I will cancel all my accounts immediately. Do I expect my opinion to influence CCP's direction?, No, not in the least. They have made it absolutely clear that the only thing that matters here is revenue generation, and that, and ONLY that, will be their driving force.

Edit - spelling mistake.


I cannot totally agree with your analysis.

1. yes, eve players complain about everything, most of the complaints are not heard and the difference between light and severe matters seems to hard.
This time there is a clear sign: eve players not only whine about everything, there are also professional forum trolls.
But this time the number of trolls is low, so €€P really should take it serious, because most of those who wrote in this thread take it serious.

2. yes, we are acting like expected (i wrote something about that above, p 77).
But, the massive uproar, although only to measure in the trade hubs and the length of protest threads should give ccp something to think.
perhaps it would have gone more smoothly without so much protest, if €€P had lower prices of the vanity items and if CCP Zulu hasn't published his arrogant and user interest ignoring dev blog.

3. yes, there are some players that already bought the new items - out of several reasons. if you have to "wash" your botted isk or if you are rich ingame, you can buy plex and transvert them. there are too, persons, that invest real money in this game.
But, this silent buyers - i wont count 40-50 sold monocles as "majority" - is confronted by all those who declared to cancel subscription of their accounts. and this already is a reasonable number.

Dennie Fleetfoot
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:03:00 - [2503]
 

Where's this unsub list I've heard tell of.

I'd like to look at it.

Amber Villaneous
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:05:00 - [2504]
 

Originally by: Yeo San
Originally by: pipvac
Edited by: pipvac on 25/06/2011 15:18:04
People seem to be missing the point.

Subscribers are buying the virtual goods, and generating incremental revenue for CCP. Customers are behaving in the way CCP's market research predicted. Therefore this expansion is successful.

The vocal playerbase on the forums have spent so long whining about everything, its not surprise that CCP cannot filter the important feedback from the 'predictable' adversity to change.

To this end, the only real measure CCP can use is the rate at which new revenue is generated from their virtual trinkets, and subscriber behaviour, in terms active subscription growth (or decline).

All the evidence suggested so far, in terms of concurrent users logged on, and the leaked email above, would suggest that CCP have provided what the consumer wanted, and those who don't like it, are not moved enough, in significant numbers to adversely affect subscriptions and concurrent users.

It'll be interesting to watch, but it looks as though the 'silent majority' have already given CCP the thumbs up with their purchasing behaviour.

My personal view is CQ is inconsequential to me and my game experience. I have no interest in vanity items, and will not be parting with any cash to buy them. Once CCP introduce "pay2win" items that will be it for me, and I will cancel all my accounts immediately. Do I expect my opinion to influence CCP's direction?, No, not in the least. They have made it absolutely clear that the only thing that matters here is revenue generation, and that, and ONLY that, will be their driving force.

Edit - spelling mistake.


I cannot totally agree with your analysis.

1. yes, eve players complain about everything, most of the complaints are not heard and the difference between light and severe matters seems to hard.
This time there is a clear sign: eve players not only whine about everything, there are also professional forum trolls.
But this time the number of trolls is low, so €€P really should take it serious, because most of those who wrote in this thread take it serious.

2. yes, we are acting like expected (i wrote something about that above, p 77).
But, the massive uproar, although only to measure in the trade hubs and the length of protest threads should give ccp something to think.
perhaps it would have gone more smoothly without so much protest, if €€P had lower prices of the vanity items and if CCP Zulu hasn't published his arrogant and user interest ignoring dev blog.

3. yes, there are some players that already bought the new items - out of several reasons. if you have to "wash" your botted isk or if you are rich ingame, you can buy plex and transvert them. there are too, persons, that invest real money in this game.
But, this silent buyers - i wont count 40-50 sold monocles as "majority" - is confronted by all those who declared to cancel subscription of their accounts. and this already is a reasonable number.


If you STILL think this has anything to do with VANITY items.... nvm

Dr Screamm
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:05:00 - [2505]
 

I ll be brief as on cell reading all that is goin on far from home. I have SEVEN FULL ACCOUNTS and believe me CCP if you don t bring the dream back the dream that EVE has been until now, you will loose me AND my SEVEN FULL ACCOUNTS, by d way I have a super gaming computer 8gig memory super graphic card and I cannot login all my toons and play and mine and give support with my fleet any longer since incarna, what d hell have u done!

Yeo San
Neoanarchistic Society
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:05:00 - [2506]
 

Edited by: Yeo San on 25/06/2011 16:11:52
nvm.

Barashi Nugan
Gallente
Zero Point Group
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:06:00 - [2507]
 

As of yesterday, I had 7 paying accounts. That count is now 0. I'll be heading over to a friends in order to set long skills on each in the hope that, eventually, there will be reason to return. As of right now I'm unable to play due to the latest patch fubar'ing any attempt at installation.

I've been playing nearly without break since I started in 2006. I have tried several other MMO's, but none of them come close to holding a candle to what EVE offers. I've cultured great real life friendships through this game, and it has become by far one of my most enjoying hobbies. I'll likely lose some friends in the absence of EVE as we take different gaming paths and slowly drift apart. Every year I hoped that situations would permit me to go to Fanfest and hang out with a huge group of EVE players, and shake the hands of the amazing people who worked to build this fantastic world to enjoy.

Over the past several weeks, I saw a worrying cloud forming. I was slightly concerned, but there are always the crackpots claiming "The End Is Near / Eve Is Dying." I've seen it since I started, and never once did I give their claims a second thought. This is honestly the first time I am legitimately frightened that EVE might be faltering. I don't work there -- I don't know the internal pressures/requirements/obligations. Perhaps, as I've seen it postulated in another post, CCP is currently at the mercy of investors or financial troubles. Maybe there is some force unknown to the player population that is pushing CCP into this incredibly offensive and (in my eyes) off-character money grab.

Now to be honest, I've grown used to the all-to-common CCP method of "throw it at the players and we'll see how loud the backlash is" of testing new ideas. It's an infuriating way to introduce changes, but at least CCP in the past has usually been pretty good with accepting criticism from it's customers and nixing or modifying changes in relation to large amounts of negative response. Those times seem to be over. Something has fundamentally changed with my favorite game developer, and it has quite the bitter taste.

Promise that you are working on improving the current forums.
Forced new forums (Security issues, horrible layout and feel)

Promise that Incarna would be optional.
Forced Incarna (and a very buggy release, despite your claims to the contrary.)

Promise that no micro-transactions would come to EVE.
Introduce micro-transactions.

Promise that strictly vanity items would be available through MT.
Attempt to roll out Ships for MT. Dodging answering if it is still on the horizon.

Introduce new "micro-transaction" items at insane prices.
Respond to player backlash with 'Well if this were real life it would be expensive designer items.'

Introduce $99 yearly "commercial license" to tack on the third party developers which have labored tirelessly to greatly improve the playability of your game.
Partially retract some of the offending parts of the issue, but again leave it in this vague "we'll work on it" state.

And on top of all of the issues above, there has been the incredibly smug/self righteous/shut up and pay up attitude coming from CCP through DEV forum posts, CEO twitter accounts, leaked internal documents, and now this DEV blog.

You guys have always been my hero to point to in the gaming world. Whenever Blizzard/EA/Bioware/etc. would pull some stupid move and the gaming public would point and yell/laugh, I would be the one sitting smug in the corner, knowing that my favorite developer would never do something so stupid. There are mistakes of course, or simply decisions that the player base doesn't fully agree with, but there was always corrections and explanations for these, and a genuine feeling of an apology that came through. Not this time.

I say these words not with anger, but with sadness. I fully expected to be playing EVE 10+ years from now, not shaking my head and pulling the plug on a friend.

-Barashi

Ulair Memmet
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:06:00 - [2508]
 

Originally by: Dennie Fleetfoot
Where's this unsub list I've heard tell of.

I'd like to look at it.


http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1536495

Hyperforce99
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:08:00 - [2509]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Eladaris

When CCP tried to introduce the Ishukone Watch Scorpion earlier this month as a ship produced from thin air, with no player involvement, for AUR... that didn't steal anything AT ALL from the players.

Sure, no one had to mine the minerals to produce the IW Scorpion, and no one had to buy the BPC and research it, nor mine the ice and spin the PI buttons to fuel that research.

No one had to load the raw materials into the manufacturing slots, nor drag it to a market hub, nor sell it (hopefully at a profit).

Instead a CCP dev simply had to pick a sexy new color scheme, and mass produce an unlimited number for profit.

Sure, we threw a fit and CCP promised to push back the deployment of the IW Scorpion for a few months... That didn't hurt us at all, we won!

But now... with this? CCP has well over 43,000 players happily playing Eve online as I write this. We lost, they won. The rest is just hang-wringing while the addicts try to come up with excuses to allow themselves to re-sub for another few years.

You're purposely blinding yourself to the reality of the day. The only reason there hasn't been a massive exodus yet, is that people are still awaiting an official reply regarding MT for ingame advantages. And that is PRECISELY the reason CCP haven't answered on the matter yet. When they start selling faction standing for Aurum, or super supercaps, or better-than-in-game battleships, or even regular economy-wrecking 'out of thin air' ships, I can guarantee you EVE will die shortly thereafter. And not even because people will run away screaming (many will, in fact); but simply because doing so will break the game on such a fundamental level, that, like Humptydumpty, it can't be put together again -- short of removing all 'Aurum for ingame advantages' trading.


Actually I recall that Ishukonen watch scorpion wasn't more than a re-skin or a paint job. The ships statistics would have been identical.
Players would still trade in a real scorpion battleship for the Ishukonen
Watch Scorpion

Orical Niminen
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:11:00 - [2510]
 

I almost wanna make a talk show, and ask some questions to some one with answers from CCP, You know what if one of you want to contact me I will gladly put my time my effort and my skills to making this video I think people would want to hear their questions asked directly to your company and answered with respect and have you actually talk to them. Instead of a dev Blog that refuses to communicate to its player base and instead tells them what the hell is going on and that we have no power over a game we play and we invest time effort and money into


sorry for my lack of grammar and my spelling errors if any

Yeo San
Neoanarchistic Society
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:11:00 - [2511]
 

Originally by: Amber Villaneous

If you STILL think this has anything to do with VANITY items.... nvm

I do not.

Eladaris
Amarr
Excessum Industries
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:13:00 - [2512]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei

You're purposely blinding yourself to the reality of the day. The only reason there hasn't been a massive exodus yet, is that people are still awaiting an official reply regarding MT for ingame advantages. And that is PRECISELY the reason CCP haven't answered on the matter yet. When they start selling faction standing for Aurum, or super supercaps, or better-than-in-game battleships, or even regular economy-wrecking 'out of thin air' ships, I can guarantee you EVE will die shortly thereafter. And not even because people will run away screaming (many will, in fact); but simply because doing so will break the game on such a fundamental level, that, like Humptydumpty, it can't be put together again -- short of removing all 'Aurum for ingame advantages' trading.


CCP will have learned the lesson by then, you'll still get your game-altering MT. They'll simply be vastly smarter about how they deliver next time.

Seriously, 44,500+ players logged into the game RIGHT NOW proves that all of this just mere chaff in the eyes of CCP's higher ups. Oh, we know we threatened to quit back in that big uproar last year with 400+ pages of rioting, but we still played your game while QQ'ing... What part of that is going to send a "Oops, we'd better tread carefully with our players NEXT time".

I personally would be overjoyed to learn that CCP would put out some form of ultimatum "No game altering MT will every touch any aspect of the Eve Online gaming universe". But this late in the game? That seems sorta unlikely.

Actually, from looking at the login sceen there are 44,600+ in the time it took me to type that reply. CCP is winning, we just aren't aware of it yet.

Anas Damona
The Orthography Commandos
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:14:00 - [2513]
 

Fearless is right! Whiners need to HTFU all over again it seems.

I'm happy with Incarna, it makes the game better in my opinion, and I'm looking forward to more of it.

The prices are fine, there needs to be super expensive stuff in the economy to make being super rich have some meaning. What I hope to see is a wider range of options sometime soon.

The new maller is nice.

All in all, I don't see anything to rage about.

Wurrp
Minmatar
Sadistic Consortium
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:16:00 - [2514]
 

lol

If they just would have made clothings to something that could be crafted like anything els, this would never have happened. The price of these items would regulate themselves and IMO it would give the eve economy a nice boost...

Epis fail is ______


Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:18:00 - [2515]
 

Originally by: Hyperforce99
Other games have tried to sell these kinds of items yes,

SECOND LIFE: However in this game items are made by the people that play the game, and they get real money back for it in return. This game is a virtual reality. In EVE CCP is the only company that actually produces these items, and the playerbase is completely different from the one in Second Life. In EVE players value the fact that they have worked hard, or that someone else worked hard to produce or provide a rare battleship, faction ammo, or their standings.
This got me thinking. (taking above as correct- haven't verified it)

Link the NEX store with the $99 commercial license proposal. Perhaps the idea was to allow players to charge RL money for NEX items at some stage?

Dravidshky
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:18:00 - [2516]
 

Originally by: Anas Damona
Fearless is right! Whiners need to HTFU all over again it seems.

I'm happy with Incarna, it makes the game better in my opinion, and I'm looking forward to more of it.

The prices are fine, there needs to be super expensive stuff in the economy to make being super rich have some meaning. What I hope to see is a wider range of options sometime soon.

The new maller is nice.

All in all, I don't see anything to rage about.


You've missed the point, the rage is about some leaked documents were some CCP devs talked about more than just vanity items for AUR.

Aloh
Gallente
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:20:00 - [2517]
 

Zulu, It is your call but I think I might have gone with something other then an "Eat my shorts" speech considering the atmosphere around here reminds me of some strike lines I have worked. If that was not your intention a good time to have mentioned that would have been your reply in this thread. No doing so is confirming to people that you intended to come off that way. Back handing someone that is hysterical is sometimes effective. Back handing someone that is angry is never effective. CCP failing to address their main concern is making things worse not better.

And the Clothing comparison was.... unfortunate.
You see the basic shirt to buy seems to be about $21 and some change after all the conversions are done. If you are happy with that price then why are CCP shirts for real life only 19.95 at the online store?
Showing here

I enjoy eve and feel I get my moneys worth out of playing. It may however be in CCPs best interest to remember that as of this moment they are the only space based MMO available that is worth playing. That very well may change this year. It is up to you guys.

Please let us chose to go to the CQ, at least till the code is smoothed out. I have a quad core machine and doing nothing in my CQ uses 40% of my cores and 80% of my RAM and red lines the GPU.

Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari
River-Rats in space
The Ditanian Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:24:00 - [2518]
 

Originally by: Sing Xing


You can already do this:

1: Make account
2: Buy plexes with real $$
3: Sell plexes for ISK
4: Go to 'character bazaar' on the eve-o forum, buy character with 60m skillpoints (and is a titan pilot)
5: Buy titan
6: Win Eve

So, we've established that people can already do that. What is the problem then? Well, the problem is if CCP introduces stuff that you can ONLY buy for $$ and which gives in-game advantages. That means (among other things) that the industrialists gets screwed out of their ISK.

Here is the deal though, aside from an internal newsletter, which was designed to provoke thought and emotions among the employee. NOTHING suggests that they're going that way. In fact, the only thing we have heard is the opposite. Here is what was said 6 months ago (we have heard nothing that changes this):
CCP Zulu quote snipped




I have to agree with this on many levels...
the fact is (as Sabrina so eloquently stated) that a player can in fact buy game changing advantages with an RMT, I.E. buy GTC, convert to plex, sell plex, get uber stuffs....

The only caveat to this would be skillpoints, mystery (insert item name) Items that can't be built by players and sold/traded on the market as normal, and standings...

These are things that would affect overall gameplay in a detrimental fashion by circumventing the conventional ways and means of doing things.

in a Game that boasts a "player driven economy" as one of it's "finer" points, this undermines one of the greatest things about the game. Removing the ability for the industrialist community to continue their growth by adding things that are created by a script instead of by a player or player corp will be detrimental to gameplay over-all as those industrialist will eventually be forced into other lines of work and there will be a shortage of the items they manufacture today.

Where Standings (IE "respect" from a corp, agent, or faction) are derived from a player's "loyalty" to a corp or faction via mission running, the player earns that "respect" from the agents or faction by showing them their "loyalty" in doing so.
Being able to "buy" that "respect" and turning "loyalty" into nothing more than a $$$ amount would in fact be a slap in the face of every player who relentlessly ground mission after mission, after mission in order to gain standing with an agent, corp, or faction.

Skillpoints?, In a way, I don't really have a big problem with CCP making some sort of an SP pack as long as it's structured in a way that it can't be abused...
If structured similar to neural remaps, limited in the time, amount of, and costs for an Sp pack, I could see where it could help out a player without sending the entire game into a death spiral.
for example, you can do a neural remap once a year and doing it properly will allow you to train certain skills faster based on their requirements. In essence, and in fact, a reasonable, limited SP pack would do the same thing, but only if setup properly from the beginning.

anyway, just my 0.02 isks worth on that aspect of it, but I'm honestly more concerned with the effects of this recent "upgrade" in content has had on player's computers and the over-all view that "eventually" we won't have a choice in it, than I am the theoretical discussions of how CCP could make more $ for themselves.

Granted, there are some serious concerns mentioned in these 80+ pages of posts and CCP should address them in a straight forward manner, but people also shouldn't jump the gun and/or go off half ****ed until the final word is out.

CCP?, I personally have 5 accounts that are paid for with real money, and I pay for my son's account, and my nephew's account too, we aren't unsubbing over a simple discussion, but if the game gets turned into nothing more than some money tree for a corporation who displays a propensity to ignore their user-base and who displays a disdain for that user-base, then it's likely 7 accounts gone too.
o/
K.

Amber Villaneous
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:34:00 - [2519]
 

Originally by: Kelnarn Shaelingrath


I have to agree with this on many levels...
the fact is (as Sabrina so eloquently stated) that a player can in fact buy game changing advantages with an RMT, I.E. buy GTC, convert to plex, sell plex, get uber stuffs....



You apparently do not understand economics on anything other than a very basic level.

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:35:00 - [2520]
 

Originally by: Hyperforce99
Actually I recall that Ishukonen watch scorpion wasn't more than a re-skin or a paint job. The ships statistics would have been identical.
Players would still trade in a real scorpion battleship for the Ishukonen
Watch Scorpion


Sorry to quote you again- I'm not picking on you- honest!

The NEX store can't do trade-ins yet. Despite this, CCP were going to add the ship to the options. CSM managed to talk them down to a limited offer for a week or so, and the forum rage seems to have put even that on hold.

The shop is one aspect that of EVE that I can guarantee will be iterated upon in every expansion, and probably more frequently, unlike most of the other things that are half-finished.


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