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Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:23:00 - [2431]
 

Originally by: Vjorn Angannon
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I think my opinion of all of this as a member of the CSM is well laid out in a blog post I wrote after this devblog came out:


Trebor, your blog link leads directly back to the post you just made....

relink please, as I'd like to read Very Happy



Oops, my bad. Even though it is just what I posted in the actual message here, here is the proper link.

Vjorn Angannon
Fleet Escort Services
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:28:00 - [2432]
 

TY TY Trebor.....and now I have it bm'd

Kasriel
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:29:00 - [2433]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu
People have been shocked by the price range in the NeX store, but you should remember that we are talking about clothes


No, you might be we aren't although while we're on the subject? we aren't talking about clothes either, we're talking about pixels, and the price of your pixels is flat out ******ed, this dev blog was poorly thought out, poorly delivered, is it any wonder it's poorly received? Funny thing is you've managed to **** me off with that "response" and I don't even CARE about the NEX store what i do care about is the GAME

I would suggest actually answering the questions that have been asked, if you somehow lack the ability to go find those questions HERE now instead of trying to spin it or ignore us or flat out lie to us (again..) try doing the right thing, you used to be able to do that just fine without 200 page threadnaughts, bad press and players exploding on the forums..

i've got three accounts, one has already lapsed, if CCP don't pull their collective heads out their asses in regards to engaging with the player base and listening to them the other two won't be being renewed

Aoki Ayumi
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:31:00 - [2434]
 

I have almost always trusted CCP with their decisions to make this game better. Incarna have a lot of bugs I am sure they will fix, maybe now, maybe later.


I like PLEX microtransactions
, cause I have been able to pay my subscription thanks to it last 4 years.

But I don't like explicit microtransactions. Eve is not that way... CCP is not that way, and that Aurum thing is useless... we already have PLEX, stop there, eliminate aurum, and let things run as usual.

Just fix the Incarna bugs, try to make Incarna ligher for the computers (for the sake of God, it is a room, not a Crysis 2 scenary), and Eve will be as glorious as always.

Generous Benefactor
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:32:00 - [2435]
 


Benteen
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:33:00 - [2436]
 

On actually READING the PDF file The ship fitting save slots for MT idea has some merits (I wouldn't buy it but that's because it's not going to be of much use to me, I use a pen and paper or a little piece of oft-overlooked software called Notepad). But it does concern me that one of the major issues people seem to have (as do I) has not been addressed by CCP to it's players, the possibility of items that change things like skill training speed, number of SP's, standings or better parts than anything a "normal" player can get with isk alone being released or in other words a "pay to get an advantage".

CCP you really need to address this a.s.a.p before you do an SOE and practically destroy the game we all love... The vocalisation by the players shows how much they care about the game... Don't let their time and effort building OUR characters be for nought by letting some jumped up overpaid moron get a distinct advantage due to the fact that they have a bigger real-world bank balance...

Real money should NEVER provide an advantage in a game, it'd be like trying to play Monopoly against Bill Gates using real money to buy what you need (totally unfair). I have no issue with MT for vanity items that can't be destroyed when worn (even though the prices are ludicrously high), but advantage giving items... HELL NO!

Also... CCP Zulu, if I didn't buy clothes I'd be naked, if I went out into the street naked i'd be arrested and charged with indecent exposure... so yes.. we DO HAVE TO BUY CLOTHES... Evil or Very Mad

Deja Thoris
Invicta.
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:34:00 - [2437]
 

I didn't read the responses but I hope, like me they think the senior producer is bat**** insane. I can picture him running around the office with his yellow stained underpants on your head cackling. (maybe you could sell them as a novelty item!)

I thought he reached the bottom when he tried to push through carrier changes that a braindead monkey would have been ashamed of, but once again he set the bar lower.

This post will probably quietly disappear or a ban will be issued. I couldn't really give a **** anymore. You are fast taking this game past the point of redemption and destroying a world many love and one that some devs worked hard to build.

Joey Bags
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:35:00 - [2438]
 

You know what? Charge as much as you'd like for vanity items. Monocle is more ISK than a dread? Good. I don't care. Make it cost twice as much to cover the other eye. What nobody wants is a pay to win button placed in EVE. Charging AUR for T3 ammo and ship will do that. AUR for skill points and standings will do that. AUR for special access to parts of game will do that. Unfortunately, to me, what the dev blog doesn't say is as meaningful to me as what it does. You know very specificaly what people are raging over, yet you only addressed the most minor of the general complaints. So we now know which direction the company is headed, exagerated or not, it's not the popular route. I understand the need to introduce new revenue from EVE to CCP, just not the method. Good luck, you'll need it because I believe your going to kill EVE.

Ghurthe
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:35:00 - [2439]
 

CCP you've failed to allay my fears that you will go to a micro transaction system that does not upset the balance of the game as it currently is.

You've also failed repeatedly in improving the overall experience of the game.

If I don't see something I like and fast, I will likely not continue to pay for my 5 accounts.

That is all.

Ulair Memmet
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:39:00 - [2440]
 

Seriously CCP...
Are you HONESTLY, HONESTLYcomparing RL clothes to the textured 3D-models in your game? If that's how you are thinking then there is no way of helping you i'm sorry. You have now, after 5 long years, officially lost my trust in you.

Do you guys even realize that we a re paying you 15€ per month to play EVE. That's about 800€ total for one account from me. The ONLY and i mean ONLY reason i have accepted this high price is that i knew i'm getting EVERYTHING that EVE has to offer for it. I was happy, that, while every other MMO charges for updates, you wouldn't. I had those fixed costs per month and that's it.

I bet only 10-15% of EVE's population are willing to pay such horrendous prices for items which have no real value at all. 5% really don't care about clothes at all and i'm sure all the rest would be glad to have clothes if they weren't a rip-off like they are now.

I don't know if you realize this CCP, but your game has one great disadvantage over other MMOs on the market: It takes a frikking long time to achieve anything here. You NEED the veteran players. But i get the feeling your current strategy is to get as many NEW subscriptions as possible and not keep the old ones. This is very short-sighted and a typical american way of handling things nowadays (no offence intended).

Yes it brings you great revenues over a short time period but in the long run you will lose. Your game cannot be run by newbies alone. I bet if you look into your statistics you have noticed that most new players leave the game after a couple of months and never come back. And at the same time more and more veteran players get bored or in this case ****ed off by you and leave too.

You constantly advertise with 0.0 warfare and great battles and think that's the only thing that people want. But it isn't. The thing is, PVP is the only thing in this game which is exciting and unpredictable and promises continuing fun even after years of play. Everything else you brought in over the last years (exploration, wormholes, PI, incursions) gets repetitive really quickly (although wormhole-PVP is still exciting ^^). And don't get me started with mining or ratting.

Don't get me wrong: I personally was glad you were adding new stuff to our world and i'm sure there are many new players that welcome exploration, PI and Incursions. But for us vets this isn't enough and it's boring. We just HAVE to do it to make money or get items which you cannot get via other ways. That's not my definition of "fun", that's grinding.

With Incarna you are continuing to follow this path. Yes you are adding a whole new dimension to the game which adds alot of immersion and i'm very excited about it. But let's be honest: The only reason you're doing it is to make it easier to newer players to enter the world of EVE (again short-sighted) and to obviously cash in even more with vanity items. There will be nothing in incarna when it's done, that you can spend weeks and months playing with and still have fun doing it.

Apart from new effects and models which every serious PVPer is going to turn off anyway you have added nothing which adds excitement in the game. From our (veteran) point of view the only thing new is, that we now should pay you even more money than you already get for things which are essential for roleplayers and people who like to express themselves in EVE, but worthless for everytone else.

And you are wondering why everyone is so ****ed? You are spitting in the faces of all veterans who have supported you for years and wonder why we don't like it?

Lurtz
Caldari
Gunrunners and Gamblers
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:40:00 - [2441]
 

Originally by: Krod Mandoon
2 Points.... 1 for the ragers 1 for CCP

First, to the ragers... CALM DOWN geez... I don't see what everyone is crying about. You're all upset because people can buy some stupid clothes for their toons? Toons that are stuck in one room and no one else can see?!?! There is no grounds to believe that the NEX will sell special ships or anything (yet) If you're that damn dumb for buying the 70 dollar monocle...then god bless, you and CCP...they desserve your money, for being to silly to hold on to it. As for the fear that people can buy ships with real money... uhm... WE DO THAT EVERDAY ALL ACROSS EVE!!! 1 PLEX = 19.99. A Dodixie buy order = about 355 mil. Lets round that plex to a nice even 20. 355 mil divided by 20 = 17.5 mil, or in other words an Abaddon which costs something about 145 mil, divided by 17.5mil per dollar = 8.28 dollars. SO if CCP lets stupid people drop 10 dollars on a dominix who friggen cares?!!?!?!?




Who friggin cares? The players that build domi's care. The ones that sell bpc on contracts care. the ones that mine and those that fight over belts care.
When you sell a plex for isk, you aren't just giving rl money to ccp for ingame money, you are paying a player's subscription in return for them ratting/mining whatever a few hours for you. If MT allows items created out of thin air without player effort, then those fights over resources and markets mean nothing. Eve becomes pay to win.

Ulair Memmet
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:41:00 - [2442]
 

You are in debt now. Like many others i'm considering to stop paying for your game. It totally depends on you.

I WANT to be able to change clothes and make my character look like i want. But there is NO WAY i'm gonna pay you that much money for it. I'd be willing to pay 5€ max for the most expensive things (e.g. monocles). That'd be absolutely fine with me and believe me you'd make more money with that pricing.

But that's only one thing. If you want me to play for another 5 years (which i would like to btw) then bring in stuff that is as exciting as PVP. Give me true space-exploration (like wormholes but not so repetitive), give me more incursion-like events (again not that repetitive), give me anything that cannot be described in a strategy book like: "First kill those 5 frigs, then kill this BS, ...". Give me unpredictable things (like incursions) which can happen everywhere, anytime no matter if you're prepared. Just make them intuitive.

Do you remember the npc logs from waaaaay back? When i found my first ones i was very excited to find a plex at the described location. Although i was dissapointed that those were static and you couldn't always find new ones :( . How about you reinvent something like this again? Just please let us search for it (not even probe, just give us a vague location). And make it dynamic. That way ratting could get more exciting again too. Everyone likes treasure hunts. It already worked kinda with exploration. Problem is exploration again is very repetitive...

Phew! I let off alot of steam. I hope i got some of you thinking.

Eladaris
Amarr
Excessum Industries
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:42:00 - [2443]
 

Originally by: Ginny Xuun
Originally by: Rozovoy Floyd
Recovering from this point is not going to be easy, but also isn't impossible.


This, so much this.


Because they've already been so hard at work placating the masses, amiright?

You think someone in CCP is going to wake up suddenly, days after the situation started raging out of control and say "Damn, we did that wrong, didn't we?"

They're going to wait for it all to blow over, then speed up the timetable on faster MT to replace lost revenue.

Buzzmong
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:46:00 - [2444]
 

Edited by: Buzzmong on 25/06/2011 14:37:49
I'm just posting to point out my displeasure at the blog post. My reasons for being angered are already in the other threadnaught.

Personally, I think CCP Zulu should be asked to present his resignation on Monday morning. It's been pretty obvious he's a poor producer and not suited to his current role based on the last few patches and how he's handled it. CarbonUI broke things and it was expected, but the bug reports for it were made on SiSi showing there were major problems, it shouldn't have reached TQ in the state it did. Incarna obviously isn't ready for prime time on TQ with the CQ only being 25% present and non-optimised, let alone the lack of the interactivity promised for WiS. He's also pushed Incarna over actually fixing quite large problems with the main game, such as Supercaps or the whole shebang with Hybrids's niche being eaten into.

I feel most sorry for CCP Shadow though, as I can only presume the posts he made last June were due to him being lied to and then unknowingly passing it on, rather than him lying to us on purpose.

What we really need though is a response from Hilmar (CCP Hellmar), Noah (CCP Hammer) or at least Nathan (CCP Oveur).

Lurtz
Caldari
Gunrunners and Gamblers
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:46:00 - [2445]
 

Originally by: Malcanis

They intend to introduce power MT is soon as they can sc**** the code together. Their refusal to deny it is all the confirmation we need. (Not that I'd even believe a denial from them by now.)


oh they've got the code already.... the newsletter makes it clear they were only concerned over how to pace it
drop a frog into boiling water it'll jump out, but put it in lukewarm and boil it slowly and it'll never notice.
That was the plan, bring it in slow enough that we would barely notice what was happening till it was too late.

RU Sirius
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:48:00 - [2446]
 

It's a pretty safe bet, no one of note is reading or interested in what we have to say in this or any other thread on the forums. All they will be interested in is if the net subscriptions over the next month go down or up and if anyone is buying anything from the NeX store.

Vote with your wallets and time: unsubscribe and don't log in if you have time left on your sub. Find something else to do.


Benteen
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:48:00 - [2447]
 

Originally by: Ulair Memmet
You are in debt now. Like many others i'm considering to stop paying for your game. It totally depends on you.

I WANT to be able to change clothes and make my character look like i want. But there is NO WAY i'm gonna pay you that much money for it. I'd be willing to pay 5€ max for the most expensive things (e.g. monocles). That'd be absolutely fine with me and believe me you'd make more money with that pricing.

But that's only one thing. If you want me to play for another 5 years (which i would like to btw) then bring in stuff that is as exciting as PVP. Give me true space-exploration (like wormholes but not so repetitive), give me more incursion-like events (again not that repetitive), give me anything that cannot be described in a strategy book like: "First kill those 5 frigs, then kill this BS, ...". Give me unpredictable things (like incursions) which can happen everywhere, anytime no matter if you're prepared. Just make them intuitive.

Do you remember the npc logs from waaaaay back? When i found my first ones i was very excited to find a plex at the described location. Although i was dissapointed that those were static and you couldn't always find new ones :( . How about you reinvent something like this again? Just please let us search for it (not even probe, just give us a vague location). And make it dynamic. That way ratting could get more exciting again too. Everyone likes treasure hunts. It already worked kinda with exploration. Problem is exploration again is very repetitive...

Phew! I let off alot of steam. I hope i got some of you thinking.


O.o I like the idea of putting the logs back in, I used to collect them (still got loads of them). Even without the PLEX hunting they gave you, I found the story they told when you put them together fun to read.

Spike Larosse
RSP Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:52:00 - [2448]
 

I'm here for the rage. How much does it cost?

Yeo San
Neoanarchistic Society
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:52:00 - [2449]
 

Edited by: Yeo San on 25/06/2011 13:52:54
Originally by: Lurtz
[...] the newsletter makes it clear they were only concerned over how to pace it
drop a frog into boiling water it'll jump out, but put it in lukewarm and boil it slowly and it'll never notice.
That was the plan, bring it in slow enough that we would barely notice what was happening till it was too late.



absolutely right.
they misjudged the temperature.
if they hadn't pushed it that far, perhaps the community would have been calmer, but it's absolutely intolerable, what ccp zulu arrogantely uttered to this matter.
bad manners lead to bad consequences.

Doc Fury
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:53:00 - [2450]
 

C.o.c.a.i.n.e is a helluva drug.






Krod Mandoon
Posted - 2011.06.25 13:58:00 - [2451]
 

Originally by: Lurtz
Originally by: Krod Mandoon
2 Points.... 1 for the ragers 1 for CCP

First, to the ragers... CALM DOWN geez... I don't see what everyone is crying about. You're all upset because people can buy some stupid clothes for their toons? Toons that are stuck in one room and no one else can see?!?! There is no grounds to believe that the NEX will sell special ships or anything (yet) If you're that damn dumb for buying the 70 dollar monocle...then god bless, you and CCP...they desserve your money, for being to silly to hold on to it. As for the fear that people can buy ships with real money... uhm... WE DO THAT EVERDAY ALL ACROSS EVE!!! 1 PLEX = 19.99. A Dodixie buy order = about 355 mil. Lets round that plex to a nice even 20. 355 mil divided by 20 = 17.5 mil, or in other words an Abaddon which costs something about 145 mil, divided by 17.5mil per dollar = 8.28 dollars. SO if CCP lets stupid people drop 10 dollars on a dominix who friggen cares?!!?!?!?




Who friggin cares? The players that build domi's care. The ones that sell bpc on contracts care. the ones that mine and those that fight over belts care.
When you sell a plex for isk, you aren't just giving rl money to ccp for ingame money, you are paying a player's subscription in return for them ratting/mining whatever a few hours for you. If MT allows items created out of thin air without player effort, then those fights over resources and markets mean nothing. Eve becomes pay to win.




Oh, Honestly I don't build anything, I didn't look at it that way before. But I can't imagine CCP would let people remove player created items from the market with AUR without the seller receiving anything. Perhaps if AUR is used to purchase that ship, CCP will fill the lowest sell order in range, just as if the player had done it using isk on the market? Would it be acceptable then?

CMD Bileena
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:01:00 - [2452]
 

I very very rarely post on these forums. In fact I can't even recall the last time I did.

CQ doesn't bother me in the slightest, as I have a fairly decent gaming machine and more importantly, very rarely dock as I pirate out in WH space. So its not a concern for me at all... The same is true of vanity items, or their prices. If people want to spend their cash on thousands of pounds worth of dull skirts, that doesn't impact me at all.

What does bother me, in a very 'oh its time to leave' sort of way, is the thought of non-vanity items.. Be it special modules or abilities that will directly effect game play. I mean can you imagine trying to have an honest 1v1 with someone who can learn skills at twice you're speed, or has magical shiny 300%+ ammo, or a weird facial attachment that lets them gain an extra mid slot on any ship? (Who knows what they'll do)
What bothers me even further, is the fact the question a lot of us are asking is not being answered. Which, to me, is an answer in itself.

I think everyone who feels the same as me, deep down knows its only a matter of time before they will be finding themselves looking for another game, which is a real shame.

I love Eve, I have done since I got into it properly... It is (was?) a unique experience that I can see being ruined very soon.

If you can turn this around CCP, then awesome .. myself and my toons (yes I talk to them in my head) will be happy... But, the realist in me, knows it'll be cancel time soon.

Bobang Rasmataz
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:02:00 - [2453]
 

Pc Gamer arnt too impressed

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/06/25/eve-online-players-protest-against-monocle-pricesmicrotransactions-lasers-involved/

Ending the piece with a
/Facepalm

Eladaris
Amarr
Excessum Industries
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:03:00 - [2454]
 

Edited by: Eladaris on 25/06/2011 14:09:38
Originally by: Krod Mandoon
Originally by: Lurtz
Originally by: Krod Mandoon
2 Points.... 1 for the ragers 1 for CCP

First, to the ragers... CALM DOWN geez... I don't see what everyone is crying about. You're all upset because people can buy some stupid clothes for their toons? Toons that are stuck in one room and no one else can see?!?! There is no grounds to believe that the NEX will sell special ships or anything (yet) If you're that damn dumb for buying the 70 dollar monocle...then god bless, you and CCP...they desserve your money, for being to silly to hold on to it. As for the fear that people can buy ships with real money... uhm... WE DO THAT EVERDAY ALL ACROSS EVE!!! 1 PLEX = 19.99. A Dodixie buy order = about 355 mil. Lets round that plex to a nice even 20. 355 mil divided by 20 = 17.5 mil, or in other words an Abaddon which costs something about 145 mil, divided by 17.5mil per dollar = 8.28 dollars. SO if CCP lets stupid people drop 10 dollars on a dominix who friggen cares?!!?!?!?




Who friggin cares? The players that build domi's care. The ones that sell bpc on contracts care. the ones that mine and those that fight over belts care.
When you sell a plex for isk, you aren't just giving rl money to ccp for ingame money, you are paying a player's subscription in return for them ratting/mining whatever a few hours for you. If MT allows items created out of thin air without player effort, then those fights over resources and markets mean nothing. Eve becomes pay to win.




Oh, Honestly I don't build anything, I didn't look at it that way before. But I can't imagine CCP would let people remove player created items from the market with AUR without the seller receiving anything. Perhaps if AUR is used to purchase that ship, CCP will fill the lowest sell order in range, just as if the player had done it using isk on the market? Would it be acceptable then?



Really? Does the IW Scorpion mean anything to you?

CCP tried to add a magically generated ship, the Ishukone Watch Scorpion, THIS very month.

No need for player generated anything, no need to mine, no need to buy anything. Give CCP cash, and they give you an instant ship. The writing has been on the wall for a while.

Heck, it was probably on the wall and visible back when the PLEX for remap debate started with the fine folks at CCP, we just thought we won that argument.

Orpheus Ovid
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:11:00 - [2455]
 

I do not really understand you pant comparison. People who play EVE Online do not purchase designer clothes. I usually do not make absolute statements like that, but I think I can say that safely. However, I don't really care what price you put on the vanity items, because I will not buy them. I am more concerned with game changing items like ships, ammo, and so on. I would much prefer you introduce new ships, ammo, and the like via the market or at least include them in the market. Have NEX sell Blueprints of clothes, ships and such and have them sell them. Create a career called fashion designer...that would explain fictionally how all these clothes came about. Anyways...

Dennie Fleetfoot
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:13:00 - [2456]
 

From Zulu's own mouth.

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=922

"
Again, to be really clear; running a single client works fine on all hardware supported by us. This is a temporary solution for your convenience that we intend to solve more gracefully in future deployments. We are still determined to make Incarna a seamless part of the EVE experience so that one day there will be no Incarna, there will only be EVE.

Arnar Hrafn Gylfason

Senior Producer of EVE Online"

Except it doesn't work on my medium spec PC.

Which makes you either a liar or a fool.



Amoes Sten
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:14:00 - [2457]
 

Edited by: Amoes Sten on 25/06/2011 14:15:13
Stop giving us sacrificial lambs and unapologetic devs.

Give us the truth straight from your mouth CCP. Anything else is completely unacceptable. Not soon. Now.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:17:00 - [2458]
 

Originally by: Hilmar

— Email Starts—-

Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 18:16:54 -0400
To: riverini@gmail.com
Subject: ccp ceo global msg sent today
From: evewatch@hush.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”UTF-8?
Message-Id: <20110623221654.CF1E76F438@smtp.hushmail.com>

sent by hilmar to ccp global list-

(...)

Currently we are seeing _very predictable feedback_ on what we are doing. Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change.

You condescending prick! It's not change we fear! It's you breaking the game, we fear; you and your 'I would sell my mother for Aurum if I could, but let's keep it on the hush-list or the masses will get upset.' attitude. It's you not clearly and publicly distancing yourself from selling ingame advantages for Aurum, is what has us worried! And it's your utter disdain for your customers that has us upset.

Quote:
We live in interesting times. (...) For all the noise in the channel we should all stand proud, years from now this is what people will remember.

Yes, they will. Mate, you are already the laughing stock of the entire gaming community, world wide!

And yes, "May you live in interesting times!" That's actually a Chinese curse. Go figure.

Arya Greywolf
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:20:00 - [2459]
 

ARE YOU MOVING BEYOND AURUM-FOR-VANITY ITEMS?



ARE WE GETTING OUR OWN HANGER VIEW BACK WITH THE *PERMANENT* OPTION TO "DISEMBARK" VIA STATION BUTTON?


Saint Lazarus
Pwn 'N Play
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:28:00 - [2460]
 

Originally by: Riley Moore
Nice dodging every issue.


^

w t f

You actually patted yourself on the back for Incarna Expansion and ignored EVERY issue people brought up about it?

Lame, seriously lammmmeeee


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