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dethleffs
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:45:00 - [2371]
 

wow! what a load of utter, meaningless crap! Are you guys still hoping this will blow over? shees.

Kayweg
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:46:00 - [2372]
 

Edited by: Kayweg on 25/06/2011 11:51:59
As for this statement:

"I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say"


I will not pull the eject lever just yet, but allow me to use that same line from MY perspective:

I can tell you that this is one of the moments where i look at what CCP does and less of what they say.

If AUR transactions are introduced beyond vanity items, then watch me.....watch me very careful indeed.

o/

M'ktakh
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:49:00 - [2373]
 

Hovering over "biomass".

Prove me wrong, please.

Sludgeface
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:50:00 - [2374]
 

Wow.

For the most part, I've remained relatively aloof of this entire debacle, because I'm not entirely sure how it will pan out, or even if many of the concerns are even that horrible.

But!

That response from CCP WhatsHisName is about as arrogant as it gets. I think you all have your answer now.

o/

Carserea
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:51:00 - [2375]
 

According to this this thread over 1000 accounts have un-subbed. This is the Götterdämmerung of EVE, the protests in the Trade hubs are the Death Ride of the bittervets, EVE as we know it is finished.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:53:00 - [2376]
 

Edited by: Trebor Daehdoow on 25/06/2011 13:22:00
I think my opinion of all of this as a member of the CSM is well laid out in a blog post I wrote after this devblog came out:

Quote:
I woke up this morning to find the forums even more afire with rage about Incarna, the "Fearless" newsletter, and the Virtual Goods store. I could tell in a few minutes that I wasn't going to get anything else done today.

"I can't work today, dear," I told my wife, "EVE is on fire."

"**** on EVE, then", she replied.

"I would, if I thought it would help."

So, I've spent most of the last 12 hours answering player questions, trying to give CCP good feedback on the issues, trying to get them to see how bad things have gotten. My fellow CSMs were doing the same.

Late in the day, we were presented with a draft devblog, and asked to comment on it. With the exception of the removal of a rather unfortunate analogy, that draft was essentially identical to what was just published.

None of CSM's concerns -- the ones the players were asking about -- were addressed; in particular:

* Will non-vanity virtual goods be introduced?

* Will CCP change their virtual goods pricing strategy?

* Will the CQ remain optional, or will it eventually be forced on the players?

To say that CSM is disappointed by the contents of this devblog would be an understatement. Incredulous is more like it.

Based on the devblog, and my impressions from the conversations I have had in recent days, it is my opinion that CCP has decided upon a strategy with respect to virtual goods and Incarna, and that they are going to fearlessly implement it regardless of feedback from CSM or the players.

Our words, and yours, appear worthless. Only our actions may have weight.

Of all of the questions CSM raised when we were shown the draft, the key one is the first: "Will non-vanity virtual goods be introduced?"

And I must be honest and say that CCP's steadfast refusal to answer that question is extremely disturbing, because all they have to do to defuse this crisis is publicly state that they will honor the understanding made with the players and the CSM that they would not introduce game-influencing vanity goods.

I may think the rollout of the NEX has been comically inept, but $70 monocles -- or $700 laser-equipped monocles -- do not affect the core of the game.

I may think that enforcing CQ use is stupid from both a PR and a game-design standpoint, but that's a long-term issue that can be thrashed out.

But non-vanity MT will damage -- perhaps fatally -- the social cohesion that is the "secret sauce" of EVE. We don't play EVE because of the great game mechanics, or the wonderful UI -- we play it despite these things, because EVE provides a depth of social interaction that no other game provides.

Take that away, and why play anymore?

Tuhikya
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:54:00 - [2377]
 

CCP. ARE YOU MOVING PAST VANITY ITEMS FOR AURUM?:
[ ] YES
[ ] NO


Dylatar
Gallente
Ocean Eleven
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:54:00 - [2378]
 

First to say: I play Eve now since May 2004, a few months later I opened a 2nd account, followed by another two in 2006. I like Eve, because it's a complex game, with wide variations of possible styles to play it.

My opinion on the important points is as followed:

1. CQ:
Ok, its a beginning. Incarna will be a very big expansion, and I understand why CCP starts the intrudoction at a low level. CQ is to introduce the ne code, new UI, eliminating first bugs. Better bring it step by step than all at once and messing the game technically up. Sure, CQ brings nearly no new functionallity, mostly just new fancy graphics, which is nice, but not needed to play Eve. But I agree with people who demand a function to turn CQ off because of performance reasons. I usually play Eve on 2-3 PCs, so I have no performance issues on my machines with a maximum of 2 clients on it (1x Core i7 2600K, 16 GB, Nvidia GTX260, 1x Core2Quad 6600, 8 GB, ATI 4850, 1x Core i7 920, 6 GB, Nvidia GTX260). So my graphics hardware is not old, but also not the newest and not highend, and it runs fine on it.

But for the game-flow it would be better, if you can dock, without your char leaving the ship. How often you dock, just for a small break, to refill ammo, to make small fitting changes for missions? Just reintroduce the old hangar view with all its functions, and place a button to "leave ship / board ship" on the station services icon bar. Additional there may be an option to "dock and leave ship" to the "dock" function in the menu. When there is more reason to leave the ship, when we can really walk on stations an do some things later, more people will do so.

2. NEx as it is now:
At the moment, I really don't care about NEx. Why? Just to get my char another shirt or another pair of pants, ok, the idea is nice. But as now, I spend nearly 625 EUR per year for my 4 accounts. Yes, I am a paying subscriber, I don't buy PLEX for ISK. So I sure will never pay about 10% or more of my yearly cost to play Eve, just to get that fancy stuff. Sure some people will do that, but not the masses. It's a nice-to-have, but not at this costs. The pain level for the highest acceptable price for such items is very very well below that. In my opinion it would be about 10% of the actual levels, and then we still talk about clothing in price range of a battlecruiser. Prices higher than that, completely kill my interest for that. It's like attaching a bodykit to my car. Sure, looks good, but has no real use. Pricing decides if I would do it or leave it.

[continued in 2nd post]

Aineko Macx
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:55:00 - [2379]
 


Matas Kyler
Minmatar
Empyrean Warriors
The Obsidian Front
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:58:00 - [2380]
 

I hope I‘ve addressed your concerns and cleared up a lot of the issues you‘re having. We‘ll continue monitoring the forums and other communications channels and pick up and reply if there are concerns not covered by this blog.

Because you think you've cleared anything with such an empty blog post ?

The vacuity of your post is... Wow ! I lack English vocabulary.

Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:00:00 - [2381]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Of all of the questions CSM raised when we were shown the draft, the key one is the first: "Will non-vanity virtual goods be introduced?"

And I must be honest and say that CCP's steadfast refusal to answer that question is extremely disturbing


More than anything else this. I was sure where their position was but now I am "not sure". I don't really care so much about the pricing thing for dollies cause I figure if they want to charge 70 bucks rl for a monocle and somebody wants to pay that then 'heh' but no big deal cause if you don't want one you can just chuckle at those who do. That we've specifically asked for a public "we are not going to go to gold ammo for spaceships" and not received this is disturbing. This whole controversy is dumb and unnecessary and should have received a quick reassuring denial.

Unless there's something to this.

Terh Rumnatarn
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:00:00 - [2382]
 

Originally by: Parleion


http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1536065&page=15#447 - CCP Manifest says the plan in reaction to this ridiculous nonsense is a change in direction. That's not what this dev blog showed.




This. I got chills down my spine.
258 pages. This is bad and you aren`t healing it, CCP.

And what you did in that blog is even worse. At first I felt angry, now, just sad, cause I know where all this is going.
I do want to keep playing EVE in this great community, please don`t spoil that.

Grit Diaspora
Gallente
Titan Inc.
Bloodbound.
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:01:00 - [2383]
 

"I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you."
— Friedrich Nietzsche





Will MT ever expand away from vanity items?

Zief
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:02:00 - [2384]
 

Call me crazy, but I don't think the correct response to player outrage is to be arrogant and not actually answer any of our questions. And calling yourself "fearless" and expecting us to just roll with it?

99% of your customer base is giving you the same feedback Zulu (even if some of it is meaningless nerdrage and threats, which we could do without) you need to clean your ears out and listen.

justin666
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:08:00 - [2385]
 

i hope people will start to realise that ccp really really really dont care about eve and never have and people wont accept the fact that ccp is a typical company who ignores players and just makes money of you and this patch has just proved it hence the massive up rise i hope ccp loose ALOT of money because of this because i have no respect at all for companys like ccp they make me sick !

people we need to start canceling our accounts and fast and kill off the population alot of us wont like it but we have to do it for ccp to get it into there thick heads that we dont play this game for there utterly stupid vision we play it for fun and we love blowing up spaceships


Tvaishk Suzuki
Long Night Industries
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:09:00 - [2386]
 

I would like to echo peoples responses in that I really don't want to EVER see micro transactions for anything other than vanity Items.

and also Micro transactions!! its in the name guys you'd be best off adding a 0 to the amount a plex transfers to.

Also I like the idea of incarna it deepens the immersion of the game BUT SIMPLE SHIRTS AND OTHER ITEMS AT THE SAME PRICE OF A FACTION BS REALLY DOES BREAK THAT IMMERSION.


Thankyou

Dylatar
Gallente
Ocean Eleven
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:09:00 - [2387]
 

[continued from above post]

3. NEx - where is it going?:
The only point here is: whenever you are able to buy advantages against other players in game with real money, I quit playing Eve. That absolutely would kill competition, and extremly disadvantages people who can't afford it. No faction standings, no skillpoints have to be seeded through NEx, thats an absolute no-go.

Ok, there might be people who say, me for example, after playing Eve for 7 years, is strongly advanced against beginners. My two main chars have both about 130 mil SP yet, and no newer player could ever catch me. That might be true for the overall SP, but not in terms of specialization. Also most time my advantage may only be about 5% per skill, because most skills are trained fast to level 4. But on the other hand I already spent that 7 years on that 2 accounts, and I already payed that 7 years. I just calculate with actual subsribing costs, real amount will be less because it was a bit cheaper in the past. But only for this 2 accounts I already payed about 2100 EUR to CCP, for seven years of playing (and skill training). If I take my 2 newer 2006 accounts into calculation, then I payed additional 1500 EUR, so we come to a total of 3.600 EUR.

I can understand, if a newer player says "oh and I want that item and that, and that skills, and I could afford to buy it with real money". But .... if anybody could to that, it would make playing the game, developing a char, "work" for your achievments .... pointless. So that would be the break point for me to say, I see no further reason to play Eve. Thats why we (at least most people) hate bots, macros and ISK sellers. It's tolerated and allowed to trade PLEX, which already has an impact to the game, but may be a way for people to play Eve who can't afford a payed subsription.

Also aquiring items for real money will ahve impact on the mineral (or other components) market. Because it will lower demand for it. But my points above are the more important I think.

So what does my thoughts mean for me?
That means quitting Eve now would be overreacted, for me. But NEx is a tool, that could be implemented in a very negative way for the further development of the game. I don't want to compete with other people with EUR or $. No way. Well I'm not poor, not rich. But there's no fun in buying advantages against others. And I play Eve for the fun. When the fun goes, I will go too. The point is: when somebody wins a competition against me (PvP, market or anything else) than I can change my strategy, work on my skills, whatever it needs, win the next competition, and can be proud, have the feeling I deserved it. If I could buy my success, can I be proud of it? Absolutely: no.

Desmond Takobaru
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:14:00 - [2388]
 

CCP Zulu calls it NeX, other call it NEx. I am confused. Maybe I need a monocle to study this further.

Krod Mandoon
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:15:00 - [2389]
 

2 Points.... 1 for the ragers 1 for CCP

First, to the ragers... CALM DOWN geez... I don't see what everyone is crying about. You're all upset because people can buy some stupid clothes for their toons? Toons that are stuck in one room and no one else can see?!?! There is no grounds to believe that the NEX will sell special ships or anything (yet) If you're that damn dumb for buying the 70 dollar monocle...then god bless, you and CCP...they desserve your money, for being to silly to hold on to it. As for the fear that people can buy ships with real money... uhm... WE DO THAT EVERDAY ALL ACROSS EVE!!! 1 PLEX = 19.99. A Dodixie buy order = about 355 mil. Lets round that plex to a nice even 20. 355 mil divided by 20 = 17.5 mil, or in other words an Abaddon which costs something about 145 mil, divided by 17.5mil per dollar = 8.28 dollars. SO if CCP lets stupid people drop 10 dollars on a dominix who friggen cares?!!?!?!? If they let you pay 20 to Re-paint your ship w/e color you want Why is that bad? I direct your attention to uhmmmmm EVERY OTHER MMO ON THE PLANET where it is possible to pay a fee in order to customize your toon.

Now CCP I think your big problem with the playerbase isn't selling cosmetics.... it's the lack of a response to the fear, that you may go a further step and allow people to buy skill points, and such. To put in a players perspective, I've been playing for almost 4 years, I am proud that my time and dedication, has led to my main toon being able to fly Just about Every Ship fit every type and size of turret in T2, and other such things. I'm proud that I had the stick-to-it-iveness (it's a word now) to train gallente Battleship to 5 and fly my beautiful Megathron based ships with full power and features. I'm proud of my hull tanking elite certificate, it provided many lulz, but if somebody with 400 bucks to burn can sit in front of eve and have all those things in 1 day.... I will be very very upset and probably quit just like I did when Champions online went down microtransaction road. If you want to sell a SKILL BOOK for money... fine anything I can buy on the market I can buy by selling a Plex, that I bought with money anyway. But Do NOT sell SP for the love of God... additionally the players fear about premium usable items are well founded. Why should one player have an advantage because he has more money IRL?? So he can by the premium booster and premium ammo and premium ship, when we have invested the last 8 years of time and effort? No way, I call BullS*** on that idea, please tell us that there will not be special aurum only usable items, tell us now so we can stock up on ships to gank every special aurum only ship we see....

Frank Corncob
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:20:00 - [2390]
 

If I admired someone who bought $1000 jeans I would be admiring their vast wealth, not the fact they bought $1000 jeans.

I would actually ridicule them for buying such an overpriced pair of pants.

Dan Estrellas Amigo
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:20:00 - [2391]
 

Originally by: Desmond Takobaru
CCP Zulu calls it NeX, other call it NEx. I am confused. Maybe I need a monocle to study this further.


In the game it is presented graphically as "NeX".
Capitalising "Noble Exchange" however would lead us to "NEx".

At this point I don't think people respect it enough to consider consistency anyway.

Tester128
Fremen Sietch
DarkSide.
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:20:00 - [2392]
 

So, they sold 50 monocles and lost 1000 subscriptions in two days. It's a clear win, what could possibly go wrong with monocles?

Tyby
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:20:00 - [2393]
 

Quote:
I hope I‘ve addressed your concerns and cleared up a lot of the issues you‘re having.



lol
this is something like pising on someone then telling him it's raining....

Juwi Kotch
KOTCH Construction and Anchoring
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:23:00 - [2394]
 

Edited by: Juwi Kotch on 25/06/2011 12:23:59

In RL I'm one of the few worldwide recognized professionals on crisis management. I play EVE since 6 years now, and it is disturbing how consequently EVE ignores everything what is best practice on crisis communication. The only real problem CCP had over the years were reputation disasters, and up to today, they ignore to learn how to deal with such professionally.

I played Ultima Online for seven years before I switched to EVE. Probably it will be this seven years thing again, what is said to end many marriages ...

BR Link
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:25:00 - [2395]
 

To those going on about how all of this is an over-reaction:

Firstly, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. Ours differs and we're entitled to that too. Both sides would do well to remember that.
Secondly, consider this: A lot of the anger comes not from monocles, not from CQ, not from potential future plans or broken promises, but from the way the FEARLESS newsletter, blog and email show a troubling trend. No, not that CCP wants more profit - they're a company and that's a given - but that they are wildly out of touch with not only their player base, but the world in general. $1000 dollar pants don't buy you status amongst EVE players, they buy you ridicule. This isn't "predictable feedback", if it was they wouldn't have felt the need to issue a statement or an apology.

So, if the email that's been leaked is real, and CCP are looking at what players DO rather than what they say, isn't it perfectly reasonable for people to cancel subscriptions? Over 1500 accounts have been cancelled according to these forums, equating to over $22,000 in lost cash over a single month.

ko4e
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:28:00 - [2396]
 

the blog was useless, a waste of my time reading.

those questions that blog talks about, are nothing to do with the protest, we don't care how much things cost.

WE WANT TO KNOW IS AUR IS GOING TO BE USED FOR SHIPS AND GAMECHANGING items/options

Tester128
Fremen Sietch
DarkSide.
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:29:00 - [2397]
 

Originally by: BR Link
To those going on about how all of this is an over-reaction:

Firstly, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. Ours differs and we're entitled to that too. Both sides would do well to remember that.
Secondly, consider this: A lot of the anger comes not from monocles, not from CQ, not from potential future plans or broken promises, but from the way the FEARLESS newsletter, blog and email show a troubling trend. No, not that CCP wants more profit - they're a company and that's a given - but that they are wildly out of touch with not only their player base, but the world in general. $1000 dollar pants don't buy you status amongst EVE players, they buy you ridicule. This isn't "predictable feedback", if it was they wouldn't have felt the need to issue a statement or an apology.

So, if the email that's been leaked is real, and CCP are looking at what players DO rather than what they say, isn't it perfectly reasonable for people to cancel subscriptions? Over 1500 accounts have been cancelled according to these forums, equating to over $22,000 in lost cash over a single month.


dude, but 50 monocles can't be wrong

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:30:00 - [2398]
 

We should start a donation drive to get zulu some pants.

Gorben
Caldari
G-Force
Just a Bunch Of Corporations
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:31:00 - [2399]
 

I'm just wondering why CCP is introducing vanety items already?
The only place you can see these items is in the mirror in your CQ.

I'm not gonna buy me a 1000$ jeans(as CCP Zulu stated in his post)to look good in the mirror but to be looked at by other people/players.

So i think those vanety items are introduced to soon.

And so what if some one wants to pay thousants of dollars to look good ,learn faster or show off and get killed in a nicely painted ship ?

Klokwerks
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:31:00 - [2400]
 

Edited by: Klokwerks on 25/06/2011 12:32:13
I can't believe how out-of-touch CCP is. Every other statement of theirs adds more insult to injury. This sums everything up very well:
http://eve.beyondreality.se/NeXCQResponse.html


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