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Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:16:00 - [2341]
 

Edited by: Zey Nadar on 25/06/2011 11:16:21
Originally by: Lucia Commodo

Damn, you know what? There is nothing worse about EVE than there was a week ago. In fact, I think many would argue that Incarna marks the very first step in making EVE an even better game.


Considering the last 3 patches or so have made eve worse for me, Im sure I disagree. Remember what my signature refers to?

At some point the straw is going to break the camels back.

Lavraen
Animus Furandi
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:16:00 - [2342]
 

Originally by: Lucia Commodo
Go play a Sony game where they invest nothing in it except life support and then shut it down.


At the Sony Press Conference, it was confirmed that Dust 514 is to be released exclusively on the PlayStation 3 and PlayStation Vita.

Rolling Eyes

BROTHER Mullakai
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:19:00 - [2343]
 

@Futile Rhetoric , no i cant quit at a moments notice i live on this game for last 3 years love it , my fisrt reaction when herd about arum was ooh dear god no but ccp will listen to its players and i dont think this will get out of hand with non vanity items available . if it does then thats too much for me too take also and i shall not enjoy playin any more , atm its not ideal but its no threat to the game we love , any way im off to pub to get wasted and mull it over :)

Sing Xing
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:20:00 - [2344]
 

Dear overreacting players,

Read this

Originally by: Vim
NeX store, high prices:

#1: Stops the plex demand spike from happening, this is costing the marketmonguls that speculated for this to happen a great deal of isk. Good job CCP, doing as you've said 'Try to make people not be able to benefit from a patch by going over sisi, checking patchnotes beforehand'.

#2: In eve, you can resell your 1000$ jeans for 989.99$ when you grow tired off them, even if you've worn them for a year. Compared to them being bound to your character... That means your pants in actuallity cost you $11.01. If they remove your pants from their sortiment, that means your item might well be worth 2000$ in two years.

#3: Vanity clothes, costly enough that not everybody and his dog buys a plex to try thoose first high priced items? (See #1 and #2 btw) Vanity... means Vanity. We got exactly what we asked for. But I'll take no part in it till we get more of WiS rolled out.

The Inhouse Document, Remember school when you were told to debate the opposite viewpoint as excersize?

#1 Already at the title and the edition you do realize, once your not thinking its a spoof, with how big a truckload of salt you should read it.
"Greed is Good?"(questionmark at the end) "Gordon Gekko Edition" <-Who after reading this takes the document at face value?

#2 You have one guy being Gekko, capturing the character quite neatly, exaggeratting ideas and toughts to cause a debate in written form to alot of co-workers.

#3 The lead producer churns out all the weird **** he has heard, stuff has been presented to him etc. He presents it in this doc as his own opinions because he has been asked to write blantantly pro MT.

#4 They need to discuss thoose things for their coming titles, the company as a whole dont have a frame of reference to their two coming titles. The debate is hence set to use EvE as their frame of reference, because everyone is familliar with her and can see the concepts.

The Expansion:
#1 We got exactly what we were told, and it shows great promise for things to come. Staggered releases. As promised.

#2 New turrets, Yarr. I'll love to see when they start dusting of old effects and the like.

#3 The Door, yeah. this is poorly done. I cant actually say much about it other then simply: Give me old hangar and option to go to my quarters(Yes mam!)

#4 Bugfixes, great. More of thoose please.

Now:
I would not mind people buying a vanity luxuary shuttle in the nex, nor would I bash ccp if they wanted to sell advantages to newbies(up to 10m sp or so).
They need to get newbies to stay. If that means newbies can buy abit of a faster skilltraining or get abit of standings to get faster to where they think they can enjoy the game and hence stay: No problem. The failure is CCP need to say this. I do not think the community would object to newbies being able to get a better start/get going in eve. GTC/PLEX already accomplishes this to an extent. Why not make it better stuff then isk, that realy gets you nowhere :P. I for one, want new players in eve.

I would be quite upset if 'raise your faction to 9.99' 'paintjob 10% extra armor included' offers suddenly appeared in the noble store and take my money elsewhere.
Until that happens, I will not judge CCP for internal discussions, nor their toughts.

Fly safe, pewpew and remember to use reason.


Understand that the Hilmar mail doesnt in any way adress implementing pay2win items in the noble store, it's focused on players reactions to the "SHOCKING" price of the monocle. Seriously, if you think it's THAT expensive, dont farking buy it! It's that simple. Now chill the F out, you whiny snotty, entitled douches.

Also, if you're unsubbing, please send your ISK to 'Sing Xing', I need more monocles.

Kronosys Athonille
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:20:00 - [2345]
 

Originally by: Lucia Commodo
Sorry guys (players that is), but you've all been spoilt by a very good game company and instead of having some degree of trust based on 8 years of excellent work by these guys you're all screaming because of an internal memo taken out of context.

Quit. Go play a Sony game where they invest nothing in it except life support and then shut it down. Go play Darkfall where you're lucky to see one half-arsed expac a year full of bugs and poorly thought out mechanisms. Go play SWG - oh no, you can't, they're shutting it down. Go play pretty much any other game with no depth.

You're like children screaming at their parents without realising what everyone else's parents are like. These guys are seriously cool compared to most Devs. They play their game, they talk in normal language, they have vision and commitment.

Damn, you know what? There is nothing worse about EVE than there was a week ago. In fact, I think many would argue that Incarna marks the very first step in making EVE an even better game.

Seriously, just get a grip. If you scream and rant about things which haven't even happened you'll die from a heart attack by the time you're my age.


Well Said

Mangueiras
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:24:00 - [2346]
 

Originally by: Lucia Commodo
Sorry guys (players that is), but you've all been spoilt by a very good game company and instead of having some degree of trust based on 8 years of excellent work by these guys you're all screaming because of an internal memo taken out of context.

Quit. Go play a Sony game where they invest nothing in it except life support and then shut it down. Go play Darkfall where you're lucky to see one half-arsed expac a year full of bugs and poorly thought out mechanisms. Go play SWG - oh no, you can't, they're shutting it down. Go play pretty much any other game with no depth.

You're like children screaming at their parents without realising what everyone else's parents are like. These guys are seriously cool compared to most Devs. They play their game, they talk in normal language, they have vision and commitment.

Damn, you know what? There is nothing worse about EVE than there was a week ago. In fact, I think many would argue that Incarna marks the very first step in making EVE an even better game.

Seriously, just get a grip. If you scream and rant about things which haven't even happened you'll die from a heart attack by the time you're my age.


You just like CCP miss the crutial question: "Will AUR get pay-to-win items?"

The Captain Quarters are not the main problem of this protest. Nor are the bugs that have always poped up in one form or the other and have you seen anything like what has been happening because of it? The answer is no. All they have to do to control this riot/protest is say that there will NEVER be pay-to-win items in AUR store and you will see everyone will shut up. People will wait as they always did for bug fixes and will continue playing their game. Don't forget CCP this is our game... Don't make the mistake of not listening ans answering the main question... Because if the answer to: "Will AUR get pay-to-win items?" is yes then trust me when I say eve will die...

Alcolin
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:25:00 - [2347]
 

Sorry this is too much or me ... I am taking a break for a few months on my accounts. Ill see what CCP does with EvE but i am not inversting any more time or money.

Good luck to the rest of you staying. Enjoy the fleecing...

Grit Diaspora
Gallente
Titan Inc.
Bloodbound.
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:25:00 - [2348]
 

All they care about is ****ing money! The culture, the community, the "idea" that is Eve Online only means something to the players who have been around for years and the newer ones who were looking for that 1 game, different from all the other crap out there. Don't waste your time ranting and raving on the forums, or writing to CCP,all they give a **** about are dollar signs. I say we have a "Boycott Eve Day" .. A day where nobody logs the **** on and show them that they need us, we do not need them !!!


GD

Tomarix Vindigo
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:27:00 - [2349]
 

From the blog
Quote:
I hope I‘ve addressed your concerns and cleared up a lot of the issues you‘re having.


To be honest, for me it is one of the most useless blogs ever, CCP Zulu.

Angeliq
Minmatar
Soimii Patriei
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:28:00 - [2350]
 

From evenews24.com

After receiving this email 24 hours ago, I held it up and classified as a troll in k u g u t s u m e n . c o m foreplay, which is where a some of our intel gets validated. I refused to believe this email was real, but evidence, confirmation from several sources including agents with very close ties with CCP has confirmed it, I refused to believe it veracity.

After reading the CCP Zulu release, we broke down as we became aware of the similar direction between the CCP DevLog and this “leaked email”, we decided to calm down and post this after heavily consulting advisors, ex-game developers and well informed EVE online players.

The email to which we hold no authorship, editing, nor claim to be true based on the fact that we are still in denial/shock even a day after, we are assured to have the “Hilmar” writing style, no-one before other than the original source of our leak reffered to the newsletter as ‘fearless’ and the content of the email certainly goes inline with the poorly received DevBlog message CCP Zulu expressed.

We Do not claim the veracity of this email it came to us via a Drop Box (just as the newsletter), we didn’t published immediately out of the respect we feel for CCP games, yet the evidence has been mounting all day as we keep digging around and other clues has been pooping up or keep in mind that maybe we Eve News24 are being peons to the well planned machinations of persons willing to destroy CCP.

Said this, Read It and Make Your Own Conclusions.

E-mail can be found HERE

Tappits
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:28:00 - [2351]
 

People are getting very board of your sh*t.
This topic might not get the 250+ the other one got but that does not mean you answered our questions and we are satisfied. It just means people have stopped caring and have already gone else were.

I love how you came up with cool Real life analogies about clothes, but what you failed to grasp is that EVE WORLD IS NOT RL.
Maybe you will come up with a €500 tuxedo because in RL it makes you look cool and spending that on one is worth it so it must be the same in eve.

Your best bet at this point is removing the hole shop the hole QC and go fix all the other crap you have broken while doing all of this.

In RL we get to chose to not wear clothes, well in the fun game I play I would like to chose not to look at this god dam door any more and not to be forced into my QC when I dock. I was fully immersed into the eve world enuff that I was sat in a pod in my ship in the hanger and that I had 1000's of able body people no in pods running round doing my **** for me, me and my pod are like a god and I control them. I don't need to lower myself and walk about like my underlings, I am a god.

There are loads of other issues like not having MT at all in eve and paying ISK for everything and lots of other stuff but I don't cear any more. Because you all seem to be ****ing useless at making SPACESHIPS GOOD ANYMORE.


Inquisitor Cerberuso
Hounds of Helll
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:28:00 - [2352]
 

I'm pretty sure most of you here are really ******ed. You read a fancy internal document - Yes i have read it to - that discusses creative ideology and opinions between CCP staff. Then, without basic factual information, you are OMG THEY ARE BREAKING THE GAME.

I haven't seen anyone say in the document "LETS INTRODUCE UBER-FORTRESS-TITANZ". You are being ridiculous and simply taking the OPINIONS out of context. I do not see a roadmap for the next 5 dev cycles for Eve in this document. 270pages of whine becos you read the EN24 quotes and you are unable to think for yourselves.

Then you knock at CCPs door and demand for an explanation - which Zulu have given. You also demand for an apology. They can't apologise if most of you are ******ed Daily Mail readers. Then you carry on protesting; Thats it, keep logging in, keep New Eden active its fun.

If you are a player and you really think CCP would introduce a game breaking disadvantage to honest but not-so-well-off players then you might aswell give me your stuff and quit. Because you have this stupid idea planted, nothing CCP will say will be good enough.

I DON'T SEE YOU PROTESTING ABOUT BOTTING AND MACRO'ING WHICH GIVE MOST NULL SEC ALLIANCES AN ADVANTAGE

Random Lee
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:30:00 - [2353]
 

I said in the other thread (over 250 pages) that I would give CCP a week to sort out the issues before I considered leaving the game. Sadly due to the confirmation from CCP Zulu that this is no longer the game I originally subscribed to, I am going to have to put my money where my mouth is.

I will not be extending the game time on any of my 6 accounts.

Thank you for what used to be a good game, I did enjoy playing it.

And yes, you can have my stuff, I wont be needing it anymore.

Futile Rhetoric
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:30:00 - [2354]
 

Originally by: BROTHER Mullakai
@Futile Rhetoric , no i cant quit at a moments notice i live on this game for last 3 years love it , my fisrt reaction when herd about arum was ooh dear god no but ccp will listen to its players and i dont think this will get out of hand with non vanity items available . if it does then thats too much for me too take also and i shall not enjoy playin any more , atm its not ideal but its no threat to the game we love , any way im off to pub to get wasted and mull it over :)


Sorry man, but it's clear as day that this is where they're going. The same principle which says that "these cretins will buy a monocle our graphics designers spent a few hours on for $70" says other things, too. Think.

Zorash Xanten
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:30:00 - [2355]
 

Some of you obviously don't get it do you? Its not about the price of the items currently on sale for MT, nor even the fact that MT in now part of the game, its that the MT planned for EVE involves items that can effect the game (Ammo, Ships, possibly implants etc.).
This is the gamebreaker for the majority of people who know anything about how EVE operates. Sure people with RL money can buy Plex and get better chars/better ships n' modules, but in these cases these items come from WITHIN EVE, somebody took time and effort to make those chars for sale, somebody made the ships and modules (or ratted for them in the case of modules) from in game resources. That they used in game resources means that there was an Oportunity Cost associated with them (look up what this means, its important). MT game effecting items have no in game Opportuninty Cost and thus break the Sandbox/Player driven economy model of EVE.
Simple.

Midge Mo'yb
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:32:00 - [2356]
 

Will MT ever expand away from vanity items?

thats all i want to know and im done.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:33:00 - [2357]
 

Originally by: CCP Manifest
CCP Zulu speaks on the Fearless newsletter and Monocles in this dev blog.


What on earth possessed him to write such unbelievable drivel? What on earth where you thinking letting him post it?


There's a limit to the level of contempt that even EVE players will accept from you fools, and this stinking turd far over-reaches it.

Joseph Vacher
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:34:00 - [2358]
 

I'm realistic, I understand this is a business you want to make profit out of and so on, I've no problem with that.

But, Zulu, if you think that dev blog was an acceptable way of responding to the concerns of the player base, you're quite wrong.

People want to know whether there is a long-term goal within CCP to introduce real-money purchases of non-vanity/cosmetic items. If the answer is no, tell us - at a stroke, people are placated. If the answer is yes, your silence suggests it is a plan you have so little faith in you are afraid to outline it to the people it will directly affect.

And if you have no faith in it, why do it?

Kabaos
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:34:00 - [2359]
 

Edited by: Kabaos on 25/06/2011 11:38:10
About ExtraVipSuperMega-"monocle"
Cost 4-5 plex =like a 10 Battleships..And this is Sci-Fi?!

CCP is very "CLEVER"


If not players of EVE your bussines was empty! You must worship to players eve which "KEEP YOUR BOAT AFLOAT"..

Rozovoy Floyd
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:35:00 - [2360]
 

The debate regarding if/how microtransactions could be implemented into EVE was, and still is, an interesting debate that could help EVE move forward in a way that both satisfies players and the business needs of CCP. Unfortunately, due to a quite staggering error in judgement by whoever is ultimately responsible for for this area, it's not a debate we are having. Recovering from this point is not going to be easy, but also isn't impossible.

The mistake, quite simply, was the business model of the microtransactions that were introduced. The rather unfortunate dev blog written in defence of this really does show a major misunderstanding of the target market.

The virtual products introduced have been premium priced - skim as much money as possible from the players who are willing to pay any price - low volume but high return. This will then be followed by lower price brackets as the range expands. Makes perfect sense in many markets (new technology, for example), but was madness in this case.

CCP was faced with a market that they knew would be resistant to MTs. The first step had to reassure the community that CCP was not doing this in an attempt to rip of their customers, but simply to develop the way in which people pay for the game. Introducing items that are only of vanity value, and currently not even that due to CQ being the only functioning part of Incarna, and then charging unbelievably high prices had completely the reverse effect. Now large chunks of the community, including many long term, loyal customers, are beginning to doubt if they can believe a word that the company says.

Recovering from this will not be easy. I would suggest that a number of steps need to be taken very quickly. 1) Make a very clear announcement that CCP made a huge mistake - stop trying to defend the indefensable. 2) Revamp the Noble Exchange to start with the bottom end of the market - give us the cheap end to get us wanting to actually have vanity items - introduce the higher price stuff later when vanity items become normal.

If I were a shareholder of CCP, I would be very concerned that senior management allowed this situation to develop. I'd be even more concerned if they don't realise they have made an enormous mistake and take quick steps to rectify it.

And a note to the ragers - if you want to vent your anger, vent it at the top where the instructions come from, not at the employees who simply did what they were told to do.

Nukleanis
Falcon Advanced Industries
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:36:00 - [2361]
 

A few issues that caught my non-monocled eye:


Quote:
People have been shocked by the price range in the NeX store, but you should remember that we are talking about clothes.


We are, in fact, talking about pixels on a monitor. I keep my clothes in my drawers here at home. I do not store them on Tranquility, and if I went out of my house attempting to wear pixels then I would be arrested. Or at least extremely cold.

Quote:
...which by the way is one of our more smooth and successful expansions, not to mention absolutely gorgeous.

What other redeeming factors does it have? Is it functional? Complete? User-friendly? Non-controversial?

Quote:
I hope I‘ve addressed your concerns and cleared up a lot of the issues you‘re having.

You have not, and it is obvious that the points you attempted to address were the tip of a very large iceberg. How do you explain the terrible coverage in the gaming news community? By the same deluded 'virtual clothes have the same value as real clothes' argument? What about Aur for non-vanity items? What about the fact that you have gone back on your word about forcing CQ onto people and about MT in general? Do we not, your paying customers, deserve an apology for this? Are we just dollar signs to you?

For answers, we'll turn to Hilmar's letter where we find the following:


Quote:
Naturally, we have caught the attention of the world.

You have caught a lot of bad press, to be specific.

Quote:
We have communicated our intention here internally in very wide circles through the Virtual Economy Summit presentation at the GSM...

But not, it appears, to the most important group of all: The customers.

Quote:
I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change.

If you do not believe what your customers are telling you, but instead see what they do, then you are saying that we are lying. People are resistant to change, but they are more resistant to being ripped off. Selling 52 monocles does not mean that the entire community is behind you, it means that the entire community -52 people thinks that this is a very bad idea.

Quote:
...changing the world is hard and we are doing it as so many times before!

CCP will change the world? This is terribly delusional.

CCP is a business. Previously their business model was making awesome games that people want to play and pay for. Now it is lying and attempting to take money from people by any means necessary. CCP admit that this reaction was expected, but CCP, can you not consider WHY the community is so upset? Obscene prices. Going back on your promises. Leaked documents.

If your own employees see fit to leak documents, then you must be doing something really, truly wrong. You may have called in market professionals to help you with your homework, but when you hand your homework to the customers who judge you on it and mark it as wrong, you have to go and do it again.

Juwi Kotch
KOTCH Construction and Anchoring
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:38:00 - [2362]
 

Edited by: Juwi Kotch on 25/06/2011 11:40:11

I just don't buy this stuff. As I have never bought a Plex to pay for the game, I will never buy Aurums to pay for stuff. I don't look down or up to people who do this, it's only their decision what to do with their RL money or their ingame money.

My only objection is, that the civilisation-destroying consume paradigm is now transported into this virtual realm, assisting to annihilate our RL world by reinforcing the mindsets and habits of people enslaved by money and addicted to consuming, and adding to the smokescreening of their perception about the consequences of their habits.

However, as soon as buying stuff with Aurums gives an advantage to those who do this besides stupid vanity, I'm out of here.

Paskis Robinson
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
Merciless.
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:38:00 - [2363]
 

I can't imagine wanting to use money to play dress-up with clothing. I can imagine using it to put my corp logo on my ship though, within limits of price.

The memo was an internal newsletter, not a policy manifesto, and I won't be threatening to close accounts based on that or demanding answers or guarantees that CCP may not have made final decisions on. I probably won't close them even if they do start making some MT stuff, so long as it doesn't impact my game play.

CCP is a business, and I expect them to tune the game to make a profit; they know breaking the game will kill it, but there's got to be scope for some micro transactions to increase the cash pool for them to some degree. And if you can do it without breaking the game, go for it CCP - because the more money CCP makes, the more they can spend on more awesome expansions and faster hardware, and more people will play, and there'll be more targets...

So park the hysteria people and make a decision to leave if and when something truly game breaking happens; not just because someone moots the mere idea of it.

Kaos Supreme
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:38:00 - [2364]
 

While you're bull****tin, how bout removing all ****ing forms of bottin / macro'n !

Yeo San
Neoanarchistic Society
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:39:00 - [2365]
 

Originally by: Lucia Commodo
Sorry guys (players that is), but you've all been spoilt by a very good game company and instead of having some degree of trust based on 8 years of excellent work by these guys you're all screaming because of an internal memo taken out of context.

Quit. Go play a Sony game where they invest nothing in it except life support and then shut it down. Go play Darkfall where you're lucky to see one half-arsed expac a year full of bugs and poorly thought out mechanisms. Go play SWG - oh no, you can't, they're shutting it down. Go play pretty much any other game with no depth.

You're like children screaming at their parents without realising what everyone else's parents are like. These guys are seriously cool compared to most Devs. They play their game, they talk in normal language, they have vision and commitment.

Damn, you know what? There is nothing worse about EVE than there was a week ago. In fact, I think many would argue that Incarna marks the very first step in making EVE an even better game.

Seriously, just get a grip. If you scream and rant about things which haven't even happened you'll die from a heart attack by the time you're my age.


EVE was an excellent game, and still is a good game.
But the line of real capitalization in a virtual game is crossed since a week.
THIS is what changed.
Where is the difference between RMT and MT? RMT betrays CCP, with MT €€P betrays the EVE community. It's not only a new feature, it's something personal.
THAT's why players are reacting, it's your point of view if you think it to be an overreaction.

But the simple questions of the community are still not answered, remaining silent is a bad idea in this matter. The more real life persons are leaving new eden as players the more it matters: If the exodus starts, for whom the DUST-players will fight?

William Baring
Caldari
Barings Trade And Finance
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:39:00 - [2366]
 

Firstly i dont have any problem with CQ or incarna in general. I dont even mind the introduction or a new currency. Personally i think you guys at CCP do a good job in trying circumstances. Your alot like politicians in some ways, you can never keep everyone happy but thats just part of the job :)

However id like to know if this will go beyond vanity items, plus a reassurance it wont - becuase if it does go beyond it will make a mockery of all the effort and work players have been putting in for years. It will make playing meaningless. And il be saying thanks but but no thanks CCP.

Inquisitor Cerberuso
Hounds of Helll
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:40:00 - [2367]
 

Originally by: Zorash Xanten
Some of you obviously don't get it do you? Its not about the price of the items currently on sale for MT, nor even the fact that MT in now part of the game, its that the MT planned for EVE involves items that can effect the game (Ammo, Ships, possibly implants etc.).
This is the gamebreaker for the majority of people who know anything about how EVE operates. Sure people with RL money can buy Plex and get better chars/better ships n' modules, but in these cases these items come from WITHIN EVE, somebody took time and effort to make those chars for sale, somebody made the ships and modules (or ratted for them in the case of modules) from in game resources. That they used in game resources means that there was an Oportunity Cost associated with them (look up what this means, its important). MT game effecting items have no in game Opportuninty Cost and thus break the Sandbox/Player driven economy model of EVE.
Simple.


You, sir, are an idiot. Go read the document again and tell me where, exactly, it confirms they are introducing game breaking changes. All i see is a discussion. The reason why it hasn't been discussed publicly is because this would happen.

Xyzibit
Caldari
New-Roots
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:40:00 - [2368]
 

ccp lives somewhere beyond reality?! or do you just not want to realize you f*cked up hard this time?!

MisterAl tt1
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:41:00 - [2369]
 

Seeing all this s**t I do seriously consider stopping all my accounts if CCP continues hiding head in the sand.

Kabaos
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:44:00 - [2370]
 

CCP if you not change something ,you get to the point of no return .. Out of a game can a lot of players ..
"Greedy pays twice"null


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