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Zurtur
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:19:00 - [2221]
 

Edited by: Zurtur on 25/06/2011 08:48:02
Quote:
1/10, this is BS.

And:
Quote:

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?





Memphis Raines
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:19:00 - [2222]
 

Originally by: jk scowling
Also didn't realise how awesome Incarna was, cheers for clearing that up Zulu, I'll stop whining now.


Zulu: "People have been shocked by the price range in the NeX store, but you should remember that we are talking about clothes."

Oh, ok, at least they won't try selling spaceships through the Nex store, don't think anyone who plays can afford billions of dollars Rolling Eyes


It's awesome? I have a character standing in rusty box doing pretty much nothing right now. Not sure how that's awesome tbfh.

Xeronn
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:19:00 - [2223]
 

Edited by: Xeronn on 25/06/2011 08:21:25
hahahaha

delusional ****s

they think they have a wow-lvl game when all they have is a bug-filled grind fast that has 1 redeeming quality : the sandbox nature , and it`s inhabited by a bunch of masochists who will put up withj the countless bugs , horrible pve and everything else just so they can troll/kill/destroy eachother freely

no...they wont draw any RMT fans here , not unless they rebuild the game from scratch

this game offers absolutelly nothing to wow-style players as it is now
edit

i wonder how many of you , over they years , tried bringing friends in here and how many of you succeded . Oh well...thats what you get when you let economists and marketing dudes make decisions....


die in a fire ccp

Morar Santee
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:21:00 - [2224]
 

Edited by: Morar Santee on 25/06/2011 08:23:38
Originally by: Zey Nadar
Originally by: CCP Zulu

People have been shocked by the price range in the NeX store, but you should remember that we are talking about clothes. Look at the clothes you are currently wearing in real life. Do you have any specific brands? Did you choose it because it was better quality than a no-name brand? Assume for a short while that you are wearing a pair of $1,000 jeans from some exclusive Japanese boutique shop.

DO YOU PERSONALLY WALK AROUND IN 1000$ JEANS DO YOU??


He will if people buy his pixel jeans for Aurum.

Kalestia Barrak
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:21:00 - [2225]
 

Edited by: Kalestia Barrak on 25/06/2011 08:21:33
Originally by: Xeronn

they think they have a wow-lvl game when all they have is a bug-filled grind fast that has 1 redeeming quality : the sandbox nature , and it`s inhabited by a bunch of masochists who will put up withj the countless bugs , horrible pve and everything else just so they can troll/kill/destroy eachother freely



I've been trying to say this in a more eloquent manner for some time, but I think yours is much better.

Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:21:00 - [2226]
 

CCP Email

Quote:
— Email Starts—-

Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 18:16:54 -0400
To: riverini@gmail.com
Subject: ccp ceo global msg sent today
From: evewatch@hush.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=”UTF-8″
Message-Id: <20110623221654.CF1E76F438@smtp.hushmail.com>

sent by hilmar to ccp global list-

(strt)

We live in interesting times; in fact CCP is the kind of company that if things get repetitive we instinctively crank it up a notch. That, we certainly have done this week. First of we have Incarna, an amazing technological and artistic achievement. A vision from years ago realized to a point that no one could have imaged but a few months ago. It rolls out without a hitch, is in some cases faster than what we had before, this is the pinnacle of professional achievement. For all the noise in the channel we should all stand proud, years from now this is what people will remember.

But we have done more, not only have we redefined the production quality one can apply to virtual worlds with the beautiful Incarna but we have also defined what it really means to make virtual reality more meaningful than real life when it comes to launching our new virtual goods currency, Aurum.

Naturally, we have caught the attention of the world. Only a few weeks ago we revealed more information about DUST 514 and now we have done it again by committing to our core purpose as a company by redefining assumptions. After 40 hours we have already sold 52 monocles, generating more revenue than any of the other items in the store.

This we have done after months of research by a group of highly competent professionals, soliciting input and perspective from thought leaders and experts in and around our industry. We have communicated our intention here internally in very wide circles through the Virtual Economy Summit presentation at the GSM, our Fearless newsletter, sprint reviews, email lists and multiple other channels. This should not come as a surprise to anyone.

Currently we are seeing _very predictable feedback_ on what we are doing. Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change.

We went out with a decisive strategy on pricing and we will stay the course and not flip flop around or knee jerk react to the predictable. That is not saying nothing will change, on the contrary, in fact we know that success in this space is through learning and adapting to _what is actually happening_ and new knowledge gained in addition to what we knew before and expected.

All that said, I couldn’t be prouder of what we have accomplished as a company, changing the world is hard and we are doing it as so many times before! Stay the course, we have done this many times before.

(end)


Oh, for ****s sake CCP, what are you doing to us?

Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:23:00 - [2227]
 

Originally by: Morar Santee

Originally by: CCP Fallout

It's a waste of my time, which I could be spent gathering more feedback and talking with people making sure the player's perspective is being shared with people higher up the ladder [...]

A lot of your time must have been wasted indeed. Because that dev-blog doesn't address the community concerns. It just doesn't. At all. Period.


I hope that means they are rethinking about it then.

Karol Kei
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:25:00 - [2228]
 

Originally by: Kalestia Barrak

But perhaps more importantly, let go. Regardless of whether this expansion succeeds and fails, our disappointment and anger is not predicated on everyone else being unhappy, but whether we are still unhappy as well. We play EVE for enjoyment. If it no longer fulfills that desire, then find something that does, and be done with it. Be happy.

Hopefully EVE will get back on track and become fun again. And here's hoping that if it doesn't, that we all find something else that is.


There is wisdom in your post that I can relate to. I played for a little under eight years myself. I am part of an awesome community in Eve and I have made a lot of other friends as well.

Yet, after cancelling my accounts yesterday and now waking up today I feel liberated. 71,70 a month that I have been paying in a six month plan for all of my six accounts will buy me 1,5 games a month roughly. I hope to get to keep my community through TS3 and other games such as WoT that has just now completed installing.

After eight years since 17th of September 2003 I was angry when I cancelled, but I am not angry anymore. It is CCP's game, for better or worse. All I need to worry about is my own fun.

Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:25:00 - [2229]
 

Originally by: Arrs Grazznic

Quote:
— Email Starts—-
Currently we are seeing _very predictable feedback_ on what we are doing. Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change.




It is not innovation we are against you dumb ****s!

Inflicted Death
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:26:00 - [2230]
 

Originally by: PsyBlade
Originally by: Kronossan
This almost made my cry before I went to bed last night. The Hilmar internal mail I just read really did make me cry :/


can you point to us where the bad man has touched you?


For me it was the bit "...defined what it really means to make virtual reality more meaningful than real life...". For me that Just screams god complex.

Tidanis
Autistic Sharks
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:27:00 - [2231]
 

I've been inactive for several months now just sustaining my sub with isk while my characters rot away in station.

I started playing a little over 3 years ago and I hate to say it: I have no desire to come back here. It would be different if you guys were say making a single player game and you couldn't release content that would alter the game very often so you just do a little survey, do some models, roll the dice, and release what you think will sell well.

Well, this is Eve Online where many people come together and are a community to play in the sandbox. I think that management has abandoned Eve in light of Dust and WOD. That's fine as long as you don't depend on the income from Eve, because if so: you shot yourself in the foot. While Dust and WOD might be fantastic games, I will not be a cash cow for your projects while you abandon Eve and leave it to the bean counters to change.

The game was getting boring anyway, thanks for sealing the deal with your New Game Direction.

Needless to say, I don't look forward to your PAX west booth or after-party- heck consider selling your space because you might need to save some isk. Pretty sad when you come and say that you won't listen to your playerbase because the accountants, modelers, and projections indicate that you will do better off with your new direction.

While I am just 3 drops in a very large pool, I will not be renewing anytime soon. Call me once you release an Apocrypha release again.

Gwenywell Shumuku
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:28:00 - [2232]
 

Basically, a big "**** you" hm?

Ok, you think you can't fail anymore? Your ego is through the roof?

Well...we will see, and don't expect us to whine about your failure!

Rasz Lin
Caldari
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:29:00 - [2233]
 

Originally by: Patient 2428190
Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 25/06/2011 08:11:39
I guess in a way its admirable to stick by your guns ugh

:lolcustomers:

Originally by: Rasz Lin
unsub, play with PLEX, there are PLEX stockpiles able to sustain whole eve population for few years on the market.
Sub is CCPs direct safe steady profit.
PLEX on the market is a liability, its profit they already spend on WOD dolls and DUST.


That convinces them via lolmetrics (your account still being on and paid for) that its :::WURKING::


I am talking about paying for PLEX with ISK. Using up PLEX stockpiles instead of generating new PLEX.

Kalestia Barrak
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:29:00 - [2234]
 

Originally by: Karol Kei

After eight years since 17th of September 2003 I was angry when I cancelled, but I am not angry anymore. It is CCP's game, for better or worse. All I need to worry about is my own fun.


/salute

V Issier
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:34:00 - [2235]
 

After this dev blog, I will not be renewing my 2 accounts. Thanks a lot CCP.

RAW23
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:35:00 - [2236]
 

Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: CCP Zulu

Fearless is one of our company values. It‘s also the name of an internal newsletter that has been designed and developed specifically to catalyze discussions on controversial topics
...
The opinions and views expressed in Fearless are just that; opinions and views. They are not CCP policy nor are they a reliable source of CCP views as a company.



Originally by: Hilmar


We have communicated our intention here internally in very wide circles through the Virtual Economy Summit
presentation at the GSM, our Fearless newsletter, sprint reviews, email lists and multiple other channels. This should not come as a surprise to anyone.


Amazing how Fearless can both be a medium for communicating CCP's intentions to its workers whilst at the same time not being a reliable source of CCP's views. Now, there's a recipe for confusion. It's almost as if Zulu has deliberately focussed only on the two way discussion on pages 6 and 7 of the newsletter in order to claim that these are just peoples' opinions, whilst ignoring the article on pages 8-9 which explicitly sets out to explain how the strategy of virtual goods sales will unfold in Incarna to those who may be wondering how things will work in EVE.

Originally by: Fearless

CCP is in the process of adopting a virtual sales model for its game products. Whilst this model has always been intended for World of Darkness and Dust514, you may be wondering how this will work in EVE Online. Specifically, how will this new model unfold in Incarna?


The article then goes on to EXPLAIN how this will work, not to discuss, debate or consider the principles at stake (although there is some speculative discussion of the details). And the EXPLANATION includes items, ammo and ships that can be purchase with MT.

Quote:

In short, it's the same in Incarna as elsewhere.




Strider Hiryu
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:35:00 - [2237]
 

Insulted. After all the loyalty we show, month after month.

Soon the logs truely wont show anything, because noone will be playing the game....

lilfleeb
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:37:00 - [2238]
 

I'm here to voice my opinion, but as has been said actions speak louder than words.

I think CCP have made a big mistake. So big that i have unsubscribed all 3 of my accounts.

Thanks for listening

PotH34d
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:38:00 - [2239]
 

The real question here is:

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?!!



I know what I'm going to do in case the answer is yes...


Onyx Blackman
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:40:00 - [2240]
 

EVE Online: Because Go **** Yourself

Wilson Dixie
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:41:00 - [2241]
 

I'm jealous of everyone in this thread. I wish I could complain about monocles and CQ design and CCP's crooked plans for MT. The update overheats my machine. I can't even play and I probably won't get my money back.

Van Flegg
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:41:00 - [2242]
 

Originally by: Kavin Alavandar
Edited by: Kavin Alavandar on 25/06/2011 07:54:46
Originally by: Van Flegg
Stuff
Well, no kidding revenue is the best measure. Why should it matter to them if they're getting an infinitesimal part of it from someone other than yourself?

Some people have an awfully high opinion of their subscriptions.


I don't disagree revenue is the best measure on gauging what customers want. But It can't be the only measure. And that's what Hilmar believes, and that's what I take issue with. According to his logic, any feedback we give other than "I'm not paying for this" is meaningless.

I don't think my subscription is that important to CCP at all, I conveyed as much in my original post.

Originally by: Van Flegg
I just became a miniscule negative stat in CCP's future financial report. That's the most attention I'm ever going to recieve by CCP if I want to get my point across. How ****ing pathetic is that?


But me and others unsubbing still means infinitely more to CCP than anything else we say or do. I'll say it again, it's a ****ing pathetic truth of the situation.

Strider Hiryu
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:42:00 - [2243]
 

The logs show nothing...
BUT
"which by the way is one of our more smooth and successful expansions, not to mention absolutely gorgeous"
I loled
how many hours was it delayed....
smooth?
gorgeus?

Yall must have some hectic drugs in Iceland!

Hyperforce99
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:43:00 - [2244]
 

Edited by: Hyperforce99 on 25/06/2011 08:43:42
This allegedly LEAKED E-MAIL from the CEO of CCP only seems to discuss the prices set forth for the NeX RM store. I couldn't care less about the monocles. I won't be buying them.

Regardless, its not the reason people are angry and dissappointed.
People want assurance that the NeX store will NEVER move beyond vanity (NON GAMEPLAY IMPACTING) items. That all it will be is a store for fluff.

As for the pricing on items.
High prices in the real world are based around either:

  • a rare brand name,


CCP is trying to make a name for the NeX items, but it won't work.

  • a rare limited stock product,


CCP is providing neither of those to its customers. The NeX items are infinite. Everyone in New Eden could have one and there would still be am unlimited supply.

  • extremely high quality products,


The quality of the MONOCLE eyepiece can't from a production point of view be worth more than 80 dollars (its a simple model with a simple shader and some sculpting on the characters face). It can be designed and produced in a few hours time.
Yet CCP is asking the actual production cost of the item to everyone who wants to buy it.

  • extremely rare materials,


Its a digital item, there are no rare materials involved.


Other games have tried to sell these kinds of items yes,

SECOND LIFE: However in this game items are made by the people that play the game, and they get real money back for it in return. This game is a virtual reality. In EVE CCP is the only company that actually produces these items, and the playerbase is completely different from the one in Second Life. In EVE players value the fact that they have worked hard, or that someone else worked hard to produce or provide a rare battleship, faction ammo, or their standings.

By selling these items from CCP, there is no community involvement anymore and the items would effect gameplay.

TEAM FORTRESS 2 & LEAGUE OF LEGENDS: These games offer a NON-PERSISTENT world in which 2 teams of identical characters go head to head. The only reason its worth while to buy these items is because of the meta-gaming. However Incarna does not supply this, and the EVE character creator already gives us a great amount of freedom to customize our characters. There is no incentive to buy any of these items, and god forbid they ever become more than vanity items, as the community would explode on you.

Incarna is a game that was launched with the WORST PR & COMMUNICATION ever. Deployment wise it might have gone well.

But there was no proper communication from CCP before or after its launch.
People are having trouble running the Mandatory Captains Quarters / NeX items showcase.


If CCP does not come out soon and puts the player bases concerns to rest, this will all end in tears. LISTEN to your community CCP, they are the ones that made you to what you are today, If you lose their trust completely, you will never get it back.

Public opinion can be easily taken for granted but once tainted will never recover and drive you into the ground. Your subs will drop, and no 80 dollar monocles will save it!
Act NOW, before it is too late.

Hyperforce,

Slave Nomore
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:45:00 - [2245]
 

seriously I know Iceland is another country but I never realised it was on a different planet before now.

This really goes to show you are living in a different world to the rest of us, you have no understanding and seemingly no desire to understand, the issues here.

All the devblogs since the release have totally failed to address the concerns, failed to address the issues, and totally failed as any type of PR exercise to ease your customers lack of faith in you to deliver on your promises.

you are totally out of sync with reality

Clara Kalsari
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:46:00 - [2246]
 

Quote:
Assume for a short while that you are wearing a pair of $1,000 jeans from some exclusive Japanese boutique shop. Why would you want to wear a pair of $1,000 jeans when you can get perfectly similar jeans for under $50?


I understand its but... With $1,000 I don't buy one Aircraft Carrier with ten F-16, a Dreadnought or maybe Antonov An-225 Mriya...

jk scowling
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:48:00 - [2247]
 

MT has no place in a subscription game.

DOn't force us to use Incarna, make us want to use Incarna.

Sub almost up, later people o/

Angeliq
Minmatar
Soimii Patriei
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:49:00 - [2248]
 

From evenews24.com

After receiving this email 24 hours ago, I held it up and classified as a troll in k u g u t s u m e n . c o m foreplay, which is where a some of our intel gets validated. I refused to believe this email was real, but evidence, confirmation from several sources including agents with very close ties with CCP has confirmed it, I refused to believe it veracity.

After reading the CCP Zulu release, we broke down as we became aware of the similar direction between the CCP DevLog and this “leaked email”, we decided to calm down and post this after heavily consulting advisors, ex-game developers and well informed EVE online players.

The email to which we hold no authorship, editing, nor claim to be true based on the fact that we are still in denial/shock even a day after, we are assured to have the “Hilmar” writing style, no-one before other than the original source of our leak reffered to the newsletter as ‘fearless’ and the content of the email certainly goes inline with the poorly received DevBlog message CCP Zulu expressed.

We Do not claim the veracity of this email it came to us via a Drop Box (just as the newsletter), we didn’t published immediately out of the respect we feel for CCP games, yet the evidence has been mounting all day as we keep digging around and other clues has been pooping up or keep in mind that maybe we Eve News24 are being peons to the well planned machinations of persons willing to destroy CCP.

Said this, Read It and Make Your Own Conclusions.

E-mail can be found HERE

Aesynil
Caldari
The Unit...
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:50:00 - [2249]
 

Here's the saddest part of the whole thing...at least for me...

I am CCP's perfect idea of a customer. I have 4-9 accounts active at any given point. When I heard about the vanity-item store, I was honestly curious and considering buying quite a few things just because I honestly do enjoy vanity things (I own numerous skins in League of Legends, just because I like it). I currently own the Eve boardgame, numerous Eve t-shirts, an Eve deck of playing cards (Why not?), I visited their booth whenever they were at Gencon, defended them, and have given them a -lot- of money over the years. Even though this doesn't actually help CCP out, I honestly have a custom T-shirt with the logo of "Internet spaceships is serious business!" in proud lettering. That's pretty damned sad, even I have to admit, and I love that shirt!

And I'm frustrated over all of this. I went from amused at the outcry, to steadily just as irritated. I saw the post from CCP Pann (apologies if misspelled...) promising a serious talk on this, and said "Hey, that's okay, cool". But Zulu did not deliver. And he can spin it by saying "Oh, that was just to answer a bit of it, I don't want to bog things down." But his final sentence is damning in that respect. That was supposed to be the end of the discussion.

"I hope I‘ve addressed your concerns and cleared up a lot of the issues you‘re having. We‘ll continue monitoring the forums and other communications channels and pick up and reply if there are concerns not covered by this blog."

It doesn't. It quite simply does not address a single one of our concerns. It doesn't clear up any issues. It basically says "This is how it is, deal with it." And you know what? That's okay. CCP does not want me as a customer, after years upon years of feeding them cash in numerous ways. I -am- the target audience for a MT business model, and I am not amused by this. They're blatantly saying they want to milk us for all the cash they can, and they expect us to stand back and let it happen. The leaked email reflects that quite nicely. I'm not going to rage, I'm not going to call anybody any names, I'm frustrated, but still more bemused and amazed then outright angry. CCP wants money, and expects this to work. And maybe it will. But not with me.

Five accounts unsubbed for the time being. Hope I feel the urge to re-activate, because I -really- love internet spaceships

P.S. Can't have my stuff, sorry. If my account time runs out and CCP stays this path, I'll leave it on my account just in case things change. Or give it to my corpies some day. Or something of that extent.

P.S.S Manifest, weren't you the fellow at GenCon last year at Cardhalla? I <3 you :D

Halvus
Minmatar
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:52:00 - [2250]
 

I love this game. I've played it for over 4 years and hope to continue for many more. One of the unique concepts of the game is that everything is built by the players. I (and many others it seems) are concerned that you plan to sell non vanity items in the Noble Exchange store. I think this would be a game breaker that would skew the economy.

Already we have Plex that can be bought with real cash and then sold for ISK, so we already have the ability to "buy" in-game items for real money. However, these items are player built and therefore the economy is protected because no new isk or items are spawned. I've always thought this was a neat idea and gave the RMT crowd a method of buying ISK that benefits CCP. Please don't confuse this with selling ships and faction standings in NeX.

Please limit store sales to vanity items. I'm sure plenty of people will buy ship skins and fancy shirts (if the price is right).

Yours respectfully,
Halvus

PS: I can't be bothered to read 75+ pages of this thread so you'll need to make a new dev blog!


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