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Lick Mei
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:15:00 - [1381]

I was a proud suporter of CCP and it's game development.
Lately the development has gone in a direction i do not wish to suport, and I am not a fan of the new P.

Beeing forced to walk around in a ****ing show room for useless **** that has nothing to do with the game play i enjoy is an insult. Aswell as the lack of responce to the issues raised on your forums with the new patch.

CCP used to be a company i held in grate respect, and stood up for when implementations not everybody else agreed on were introduced. i saw the vision you had for EVE-Online, and it's space content. This new direction however i have no respect for, and do not wish to suport, fund or be part of.

-4 accounts.

Golden Lyon Warriors
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:15:00 - [1382]

This isn't the end of EVE people, but it is the end of EVE as we know it.

You see, CCP has investors and partners and once they saw the profits being generated by ?MT, they insisted EVE have it as well.

So it will. I'm not even sure CCP wants to do it. I think guys like Zulu knew it would cause a catastrophe and now they have to figure out how to minimize the damage without either telling you the truth, which would be that there are MT's for more than vanity items coming or No, which would be a lie.

So, he opts to say nothing which is probably the best thing he could hope to do under the circumstances. They know there are going to be losses but there is no instant win answer for Zulu to give us.

Say yes: ****storm

Say no: lie and worse ****storm later

Say nothing: less harsh ****storm than less which will burn itself out to something smaller, blog by blog.

Saying nothing is manageable.

Sing Xing
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:15:00 - [1383]

Originally by: Realdoll1
Edited by: Realdoll1 on 24/06/2011 22:50:38
The only question that matters is the one you didnt address.

What about the non-vanity item future of the store?



PS The only reason this patch went smoothly is because you didnt actually add anything.

Not really fair, this expansion is probably the one where they added the most stuff of any expansion they ever made. Just because it doesnt look like much (baby steps and all that) doesnt mean it isnt a huge deal. Implementing and entirely new "game engine" into an existing one, while the game is running.. That's a massive undertaking and one that probably havent been done or even attempted before, by any mmo developer. Give credit where it's due (or if you dont undertand it, dont let your stupid show much and keep the trap shut).

Dennie Fleetfoot
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:15:00 - [1384]

Originally by: Sigurs
Edited by: Sigurs on 24/06/2011 22:54:45
New DevBlog!

... nearly.

Was that meant to be funny?

CCP Hammer... your are seriously misjudging your audience here.

We don't want jokes, we want answers!!!

Austherus Sialomaet
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:15:00 - [1385]

Originally by: Ekon Bor
Originally by: boeses frettchen
Originally by: Klebzellok
1/10, this is BS.


Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

Failure to deny = Probable success in confirming, I suspect.

True enough...I just can't believe they think this isn't going to kill their game...can't they understand that people who play pay2win games are not the same who play eve?

Azmodeus Valar
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:16:00 - [1386]

I've edited the blog to show what I think it should have said.

CCP Zulu wrote:Dear concerned citizens of New Eden

This week has seen quite a controversy unfold. In almost the same instant as we deployed Incarna, an internal newsletter with rather controversial topics addressed leaked out. To further compound the confusion there was a clear and rather large gap in virtual goods pricing expectation and reality with a large segment of the community. Im going to address both these issues right here.


Fearless is one of our company values. Its also the name of an internal newsletter that has been designed and developed specifically to catalyze discussions on controversial topics. One of the biggest elephants in the room these days, not just for EVE but for the gaming industry as a whole, is virtual goods sales and microtransactions.

Therefore we dedicated an entire issue to exactly that topic. Its worth mentioning that the topic of the issue was "Greed is good?" as a way to ask a question that would then be debated back and forth and often exaggerated purposefully to draw contrasts and make points. The result of that is now widely available on the internet.

The opinions and views expressed in Fearless are just that; opinions and views. They are not CCP policy nor are they a reliable source of CCP views as a company. The employees who submitted articles to that newsletter did exactly what they were asked to do, write about theories and opinions from an exaggerated stand.

While its perfectly fine to disagree and attack CCP over policies or actions we take, we think its not cool how individuals that work here have been called out and dragged through the mud due to something they wrote in the internal company newsletter. Seriously, these people were doing their jobs and do not deserve the hate and ****storm being pointed at them.

We make a commitment now and forever to only use microtransactions for vanity items. The discussion in the newsletter was theoretical, and we can understand the impression that it gave. We sincerely apologize for the reaction it caused, and will insure that we consider the community before having these types of discussions again. We never should have had a debate about non-vanity microtransactions, considering the community's feeling on this matter.

Pricing structure

People have been shocked by the price range in the NeX store, but you should remember that we are talking about an initial offering. We agree that our initial pricing was too high, but we will gradually introduce items at other price points, definitely lower and possibly higher than whats in the store today. We hope you enjoy them and are as passionate about them as you are of the current items that are for sale. Expect the vast majority of future clothing to be in the <1000 Aurum pricing, with selected luxury items going higher. We apologize for the disconnect between expectations and reality of the initial release of items in the NeX store, but are quickly working to expand our offerings and bring it more in line with your expectations.

Hangar View

We believe that the Captains Quarters are an exciting development, and are a great basis for future gameplay options. However, we understand the interface, loading times, and performance are negatively impacting people's enjoyment of other aspects of EVE. We are beginning work on a patch to restore the original hangar view that many of you know and love. Players will have the option to default to the hangar or CQ view upon docking, with transitions available to move in between as needed. We expect that as we begin to expand the features available in CQ, along with opening stations and player driven station shops, that more of our customers will begin to use CQ regularly, while still preserving their ability to multibox and quickly access needed services using the hangar view when they need to.

I hope Ive addressed your concerns and cleared up a lot

Kalkat Anytu
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:16:00 - [1387]

Edited by: Kalkat Anytu on 24/06/2011 23:17:55
Posting just to say that CCP is really threating his customers like idiots.
This devblog is the proof.
Comparing ingame items with RL items? Oh gosh then start selling ships at RL cars prices!!

Cancelled my subscriptions, you got 3 months to let me change my mind

PS: CCP hire Asmodeus, you'll get my subscriptions back ;)

claire xxx
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:17:00 - [1388]

CCP Zulu,

For me Incarna looks and runs great, and I'm on a Mac (albeit a brand spanking new Mac that has all the bells and whistles). Besides the Maller and turret items I've noticed some other small changes that were not in the Dev-Blog/Patch Notes. Things that, quite frankly, make Eve smoother and nicer. Even my beloved Abaddon has undergone a slight change in appearance for the better I think.

However, there are multiple things that CCP has done that has enraged a lot of your customer base. Taking you example of a pair of pants that cost $1000.00 at a pricey boutique well let's just say that I and most of the rest of the people that I've spoken with don't buy your answer.

Here's why.

We understand that CCP is a business and we don't have an issue with that, but now you've gone overboard and you've let your inner greedy selves shine through. You're charging, in-game, for a pair of pants, the equivalent of a Battleship. Now I don't care how rich you are in real life you're just not paying the equivalent of a modern warship for a pair of pants. To try to and excuse a bunch of pixels and photons, in a computer game, as having the same value as a pair of pricey boutique pants in real life is absolute rubbish. You should be completely ashamed for even attempting to pass this garbage off as an excuse.

Sure, some people will pay the prices for the clothing and other vanity items, but in reality CCP has proven that the leaked copy of FEARLESS was not a back-and-forth of ideas, but is in fact now reality. At least that is how us, your customers, now see you. CCP is now synonymous with the worst kind of GREED and a lot of us are not just mad, but enraged.

In the long run you'd have made better money, selling more vanity items, by making the items expensive, but not outrageously so.

As to other issues

People crossing the line and making actual physical threats, real or perceived I don't agree with it, and I wouldn't tolerate it.

The possibility of (in the future) being able to buy better ammunition or ships or standings that will affect other players in the game you didn't address this issue, and it's one of great concern to a lot of players as well.

Eve -v- Macs although considered a niche section of play you've managed to upset and/or outright ruin Eve for a lot of players that use Macs. Sadly, compared to the rest of the forums, the Mac forum section doesn't get anywhere near the responses from CCP that the rest do for bugs and issues. Time to step it up and pay attention to your customer base ALL OF THEM.

In closing I'd like to reiterate that Incarna looks and runs great for me, but in my opinion, and the opinion of a vast group of your customer base, CCPs greed has overwhelmingly shown through.

Be ashamed, be very, very ashamed.

Claire XXX

Mzee Machado
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:17:00 - [1389]

Edited by: Mzee Machado on 24/06/2011 23:25:31
Dear CCP

For long I have been an aspiring carebear, occasionally throwing myself into battle with the best of them. This is the first time I have felt somewhat repulsed by out-of-game influence on in-game mechanics.

It is very hard to believe your dev blog would post what you just did. The dev blogs have earlier shown some real hardcore competence in action, my fauvorite being Curts article on software making the best of hardware and Missiles hate my hamsters by Veritas.

EVE has always been driven forward by individuals standing out of the crowd. Those I speak of do not need jeans costing $1000, but as you put it:

"Look at the clothes you are currently wearing in real life. Do you have any specific brands? Did you choose it because it was better quality than a no-name brand? Assume for a short while that you are wearing a pair of $1,000 jeans from some exclusive Japanese boutique shop."

What ARE you talking about? Have your server been hacked or something? There are jeans and there are jeans. Those costing more than a battleship in-game are not.

A boss that does not listen to the mood of the workers is not worth respect. We, your customers and passionate believers in immersion, are your workforce. You might simulate us on servers, but we are not bits and bites.

The suggestions that have been repeated throughout this forum is:
- first dock in normal bay
- then choose to disembark
- can I haz CQ
--without the fan sounding like a whining pig
--light not shining out of my nose if little else
- Vanity unbelief
- MT vs mT
- mistrust

If we are to respect you, you have to respect our views somewhat better than you do now. You see, we do want to walk in stations, move among the crowd. Meeting space cadettes and grunts from worlds below. Our ships are our for now, the ground belongs to a future. Are the stations where we will meet and fight?

Selling a billion and a half ISK pants is to brag about owning a loaf of bread before a hungry crowd. In this instanse before a crowd sitting uncomfortably close together in a hot, dark room screaming for their lives.

Not nice.

Distinguished Johnsons
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:17:00 - [1390]

Rule 1 of Service Management: Don't make things worse.
Rule 2 of Service Management: Find the root cause of the issue and address it - Fix it..
Rule 3 of Service Management: Having made the mistake once, don't make it again.
Rule 4 of Service Management: Keep your customers informed with accurate, timely updates as to what you are doing to resolve the critical issue.

I see none of these, or any other Service Management concepts in place.

If there are several problems impacting your customers, you address the important/critical ones first. You don;t try and fob them off with niceties and distracting their attention by looking at some of the lesser issues.

In the "real" IT world, the attitudes shown to the customer base would have financial and contractual issues that would result in some pretty serious implications.

So, put some proper Service Management in place.

Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:17:00 - [1391]

You know

I put together a 6,500 word document in response to the “parlay” post by CCP Pann. That might seem a bit excessive, but it was just how long it took to go through the various points that needed to be presented.

Luckily, in response to this blog, I only need one word:


Falgarra Uta
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:18:00 - [1392]

I am going to bring a new EVE player perspective to this entire Incarna patch and the SS that has followed. I have been playing EVE for 3 weeks now. To preface, I have been playing MMORPG's for well over 10 years now (UO,Lineage,DAoC, WoW) and beta tested countless others. I have been out of the gaming world for about a year now getting RL into order and decided to come back. Instead of going back to one of my old games I chose a new one based on what I wanted in a game. I wanted a sandbox style game like UO but I wanted a change from Fantasy to Sci-fi. My second criteria was how the player base was treated CCP Games seemed to have been down to earth and listened to their player base. They also had the MOST LOYAL fan base out there. So I chose to go with EVE and was having a fun time... Until this..

First off I DISLIKE the idea of forcing your pilot into CQ.

There are many times where a pilot needs to dock, re-fit etc etc QUICK. The hanger was the perfect way to do this. Now with CQ it takes extreme times to load (I have a new PC) it's very clunky to move your pilot around and SLOW. I chose this game to fly space ships, not to waste my time in a station. HOWEVER I understand the vision behind CQ and NEX. and understand that you need to start here in order to expand to WIS. This however should be an OPTION!!!!! not forced upon each pilot. If you have this as an option there are plenty of people who will choose to use it when it is RIGHT to use it. Not to mention the lore and the goo and the pods making CQ un-probable every time you dock.....

The second major issue is "Greed is Good"

I'm sure the majority of the people (no matter how much they complain) are O.K. with the idea of the OPTION to use the Noble Exchange to purchase vanity etc items. Yes, prices are high on some items but what do you care of X player wants to spend the Arum/ISK etc? I personally will not use it therefore the point in arguing against it is irrelevant. HOWEVER the fact there the idea was even floated around, to offer items that CHANGE GAME PLAY AND AFFECT STANDING etc etc, in the NEX is horrifying. I have come to see that this is NOT what EVE is about.

Please Address the 2 points most players are concerned with

1. Will the Noble Exchange be used to sell NON-Vanity items?

2. Will you bring back the hanger and allow CQ to be an option?

The fact that there are countless threads discussing these 2 things MAINLY and you chose to ignore them and make a DEV blog that discussed neither is disheartening as the previous CSM put it.....

Jefferson H Clay
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:18:00 - [1393]

Originally by: Abecbu

And if they release a ship that is better than any other normally bought ship just buy some plex with isk and get it. Your not forced to spend real money for anything on the exchange.

PLEX's, you stupid stupid child do not grow on trees. NPC's do not magically drop them randomly. Those PLEX's you are suggesting people buy cost real money. Perhaps not for YOU but for someone, somewhere. If nobody had paid real money for it then that PLEX would not exist for you to spend ISK on.

Even if that PLEX went through all 350k subscribers before it got to you it does not change the fact that it had (until you broke it up) a value of 30 days of gametime (or about 15).

And here's the thing if all of us haters leave and don't worry we're gone, that's less people who aren't children to spend 15 on a PLEX for you to buy ingame with ISK isn't it? Because here's a hint. I'm taking my stockpiles of them with me in to the abyss.

Ootter Badazz
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:18:00 - [1394]

I hope Ive addressed your concerns and cleared up a lot of the issues youre having.

not in the least... lulzsec was clearly your biggest concern because it slowed down your ability to help destroy your own mmo... kudos... dust the greatest game of all time the first of it's kind has now been completely destroyed as well... you guys are awesome... clearly business 101 was ****ing passed with flying colors... I will also be ripping my account offline... R.I.P. eve... R.I.P. the best game that didn't even get a chance... without an eve... there is no dust... you just cost yourselves millions and millions of dollars... "greed is good?" seems so... look what it did for yins... I've seen MT's before... it starts out "It's just for vanity" "blah blah ****ing blah" 6 months later the extra million they made wasn't enough to support their habit of hookers and blow... then they start MT'ing many other things "which have vanity built in" but are also a big leg up on the competition... so no matter how big of an advantage it gives you that you paid for it... they will still say it's just for vanity... mt's destroyed many other games... just as it will this one... it's a very very very ****ing slippery slope... enjoy your spiral staircase to hell... I'll see the lot of you there Twisted Evil <3

The Scope
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:19:00 - [1395]

You are some smug pieces of crap lol. "Deal with it"?

Hows this: If you dont take away aurum or rework it now, you will lose your game? How smug will you be when SWG (which is dieing on decemeber 15th) is more popular then you are? lol

There is a time to stand by what you believe in a time to say "i was wrong". Which time do you think this is?

Arix Sarn
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:20:00 - [1396]


Posted - 2011.06.24 23:20:00 - [1397]

Originally by: PhoenixDawn

Originally by: Vim

No content expansion?
*New Turrets, laying foundation for upgrading of the rest of effects in eve as well as other goodies. <-This one was pretty huge of an undertaking.

And it worked out rather well, IMO. The new icons take some getting used to but are pretty sharp. Unfortunately the turret placement on my Phantasm puts these huge pods on the end of slender struts... which is uglier than the south end of a northbound garbage truck.
Originally by: Vim

*More Bugfixes, fixing things that been broken: Always fricking good.

But the introduction of new bugs obviates the work, and the true bugs (content introduced with past patches and left to languish... COSMOS, Faction Warfare, et al) have not been addressed or even glanced yet beyond the reduction of farmability.
Originally by: Vim

*Captain Quarters, the first cornerstone to the actual WiS. The remaining building blocks to come in staggered releases, as they said they would do with big changes.

This aspect of the patch, to me, was rather useless. I've no need for the CQ and would happily go back to the old hangar style if I could. As I said before, if I want to walk around I'll log into SecondLife and sext some people up out of boredom.

The new icons suck. most of them are very DIFFICULT to see at all and look like amorphous dark grey blobs on a grey background. I couldn't care LESS about the fancy turrent graphics - I NEVER have the space display close enough I can even SEE my ship, as then I can't see anything BUT the ugly dorky stupid looking thing, so IMO this whole "new turrents and crap" stuff in Incarna was a TOTAL WASTE OF TIME AND EFFORT AND NOTHING BUT A MINUS.

Like the rest of Incarna.
If I wanted to play Sims in Space, I'd go play Sims Online.

As far as the bugfixes go - where's the fix for the constant frequent LD issues players have been complaining about since Incursions original patch? Among other issues that MATTER, as opposed to fixing stupid "pretty" **** most players will never notice....

Is CCP deliberately trying to follow the path of Vanguard - "pretty pretty graphics and effects" to the point the game is UNPLAYABLE on most current machines?

They sure seem to be liking the Mickey$loth model of "cram this down the customer's throats long enough, they'll come to accept it as normal even when it's bloody stupid" a LOT of late.

Natalia Kovac
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:20:00 - [1398]

Emailed Massively about the Jita protests due to this blog. Hope you like negative publicity :)

The Scope
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:20:00 - [1399]

Edited by: Auss81 on 24/06/2011 23:21:05
Originally by: JTK Fotheringham
Originally by: cytex malrone
Im a new player I came here because of incarna because of internet spaceships after reading zed caynes blog and thought it was a cool game.

My Impressions Is this really how you treat your customers ccp .....Shocked

The newsletter it was discussing the issue of MT fair enough why were you discussing it ?? You told the player base that you were not going to introduce play to win fullstop you are caught out in a lie that dev blog basically says that you don't care what your player base thinks your going to go ruin eve anyway. Well if that is the way you want it fine i simply wont pay you my 1 month account has been canceled . i have 18 days left and that is as long as im giving this game .

Charging people like zed 99 bucks to get new people like me into this game is plain wrong no matter which way you cut it .

Personally i dont care about vanity items I dont care about dust or wod i want to play eve that is what i was intending to play but basically im not investing any more time into this game if you are going to make me pay to be competitive and to be honest that what this dev blog said you havent denied it so it must be true .

48 hours to be told "stfu people it is our game" I dont think any other game treated there customer base like this and was around a year later i hope dust can survive without eve and i hope wod is nearly finished because otherwise you are all out of a job.

Cya eve it been a fun 1 month but I think ill go spend my time and money on something else.

+1 if you are a noob. This is exactly why vets are leaving.

Noob here. This is the same reason why I unsubbed. 2 months played and 4 month wasted. Anyway it has been a good experience for me.

Posted - 2011.06.24 23:21:00 - [1400]

The most ridiculous and foolish piece of writing ever made by a game developer to their players.

Believe they asked us to drop the pitchforks and torches.

I agree

Time to bring napalm and artillery guns, anyone has some friend sin the USA air force? we might use some B2s or just plain old B52s.... The Dutch F16 sadly won't be able to reach iceland.

Joni Festus
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:21:00 - [1401]

eve is the first mmo i have ever payed for. i hated the idea of monthly subscriptions but eve was such a different game that it persuaded me to play and i dont regret it. however it is changing. everything i love about eve is being destroyed. its going the same way as the music industry. if you make a good game people want to play then you will surely make money and you will feel awesome because you are making an awesome game.

Memitim Deuce
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:21:00 - [1402]

"which by the way is one of our more smooth and successful expansions"

just to let everyone know, cyno jammers are broken.

Posted - 2011.06.24 23:21:00 - [1403]

Congratulations on your utter failure to address Incarna being the worst expansion ever released by CCP.

CQ are useless (inefficient as a UI, movement controls are unresponsive and limited, camera doesn't rotate with character, etc) and you give a giant finger to everyone disabling it by replacing the old highly functional docking port with a dull metal wall that does nothing.

Plus even five year old 3D games run 100 times faster and cooler than CQ, display a hell of a lot more in a far larger and more detailed space, and look twice as good.

New turret icons are dull muddy blobs that are very hard to tell apart, or even see next to targets against the darkness of space.

Large numbers of pre-existing bugs remain unaddressed, e.g. crashing while jumping when tabbed out of fullscreen, item bonuses not displaying/working right, etc.

I could go on, but the point is that saying Incarna "is one of our more smooth and successful expansions, not to mention absolutely gorgeous" represents a giant disconnect with reality.

Tax Evaders Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:22:00 - [1404]

Tea Ester Elliot
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:23:00 - [1405]

So we can expect another devblog on the other concerns... today? Next week? This month?

Alexis Sachs
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:23:00 - [1406]

Originally by: Tippia
You know

I put together a 6,500 word document in response to the parlay post by CCP Pann. That might seem a bit excessive, but it was just how long it took to go through the various points that needed to be presented.

Luckily, in response to this blog, I only need one word:


You took the time to write pretty much what I would have. I don't mean to kiss your ass, but I pretty much agree with you most of the time. (I have a slightly higher agreement rate with Akita T, sorry...) You're obviously not lacking in intelligence and an ability to write. So, I thank you for doing something I too should have done. Your points were spot on, and in reply we got this monstrosity from CCP... To say I'm disappointed is an understatement.

In reading some of the comments from the CSM members - it seems like CCP is in fact planning on Aurum for advantages and temporary only ability to disable CQ. Shame. I really liked this game.

Posted - 2011.06.24 23:23:00 - [1407]

We will gradually introduce items at other price points, definitely lower and probably higher than whats in the store today. We hope you enjoy them and are as passionate about them as you are of the current items that are for sale.

One more time.

Are you going to sell items, beyond vanity items, in game in EVE?

Let me try that through Google translate into Icelandic.

Ert a fara a selja vrur, handan atrii hgma, leiknum EVE?

Lin Suizei
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:23:00 - [1408]

Originally by:
Our words, and yours, appear worthless. Only our actions may have weight.

I didn't think a company could do worse than Gearbox did with its handling of Duke Nukem Forever's epic failure. I was wrong.

F'ing amazing.

Evira Alivar
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:23:00 - [1409]

I am very dissapointed how things go right now.

EVE Players subscribed to a game with monthly fees. They have spent years to develop a community. Your playerbase doesnt want Mircrotransactions.

If you sell DUST514 with another business model, that is fine. DUST Players will decide if they go with that model or not when they buy it.

If you link PLEX and Aurum (wich is afaik the MT currency that will be used in DUST), that is ok. But dont force EVE-Players into a MT Model with that. They didnt subscribe for that, they dont want it, so dont do it.

If you want to sell ingame items that do not influence the gameplay in EVE via Aurum, thats ok. But we dont want Ships and Guns and Ammo for Aurum.

If you sell ingame items for Aurum that only affect the appearance of characters, dont expect us to pay ridiculus prices. Every EVE-Player that stays in the game for a while can do simple math. Selling an ingame item that can be lost and is only for the apperance for about 50 (yes, aurum is linked to real cash), thats simply not going to happen. I expected the prices to go down after some days to not screw with the plex market right after the patch. I never expected that you think we will pay those prices for real.

As many others, i expect a usefull statement about future Microtransactions in EVE soon.

Posted - 2011.06.24 23:23:00 - [1410]

Originally by: LordElfa
This isn't the end of EVE people, but it is the end of EVE as we know it.

You see, CCP has investors and partners and once they saw the profits being generated by ?MT, they insisted EVE have it as well.

Oh like Entropia that had to SELL it's primary world just to stay alive?

Yep, MT is always profitable.


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