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Sakura Zendragon
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:48:00 - [1261]
 

CCP Zulu, lemme just say two things:

1- First of all I'd like to respond to that dev blog in the same spirit as is was intended at players: **** you, and **** that blog and the horse it rode in on.

2- Now, more constructively: You've got to be insane. You have on your hands what is probably the biggest ****storm in the history of EVE and this is what you post?
CCPs actions so far have only served to escalate the situation:
- Initial silence
- CCP Penn's first address was well intentioned, but intentionally or not, missed the mark and fueled the fire
- CCP Fallout's comments were bordering on rude and made things worse, as have several tweets by CCP staff during these 2 days.
- Perma-banning several vocal members of the community, while probably justified, was obviously going result in further agitation

And after all this, you come out with a few paragraphs that are basically a big ****-you to your customers?
I'll summarize your post neatly: "We are delusionally thinking Incarna was so great an smooth, you players are scumbags, our NeX prices are fine because the items are oh-so-awesome and worth every penny, and we'll probably have stuff for even higher prices there, so just shut it and stop whining"

And to top it off, not a clear word on CCPs roadmap for MTs in EVE.

What exactly are you trying to do here? Honestly, what were you expecting as a reaction to this? Because if you were genuinely expecting this to solve things, then you're either insane, high as a kite, drunk as hell or devoid of any notion of the reality of this situation and of your playerbase...

OldPueblo
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:48:00 - [1262]
 

I am outraged about all of this stuff in this thread that everyone is talking about. I have made a protest video please take the time to view it CCP and protesting brothers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5dLsyE8Fvc

Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:48:00 - [1263]
 

Originally by: Perramas
Ive heard of people committing suicide on the internet but I have never witnessed one. Shocked

For a long time people have (incorrectly) been saying Eve is dying. I think today those prophesies have come true Sad

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:48:00 - [1264]
 

Originally by: Aryth
Hey Stoffer,

We won man, its game over now. You got in and trolled from the inside and nothing can never top that.

Quit your job, and lets all duckwalk back out of this *****.


Everyone else,

Remember when Goons gave a presentation and said we weren't out to ruin THE Game, bit YOUR game?

We totally lied.


also darius, make sure to grab the liquor on the way out

Mindseamstress
Gallente
Jovian Labs
Jovian Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:48:00 - [1265]
 

Edited by: Mindseamstress on 24/06/2011 22:55:39
Edited by: Mindseamstress on 24/06/2011 22:49:31
Not clothes - VIRTUAL clothes. Would you pay $80 for a barbie dress? No didn't think so...

And btw buying a piece of virtual clothing for $80 is analogous IRL to buying a pair of jeans for $10bn, the price of a real carrier.

Not to mention that your EULA needs to change (or will be forced to change) given the introduction of RMT / AUR. Players who now buy a piece of virtual clothing now actually own it, as opposed to subscribing to game time. Will be interesting to see this one unravel!



Manssell
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:48:00 - [1266]
 

Originally by: Mister Smithington
WHAT THE ****?!

The community which loves and cares for this game has been raging for days because of the ineptitude of the game's caretakers. And you come back to us with this? Zulu, you didn't address any concerns, all you did was give us the finger.

That rag you call a newsletter was not a voicing of opinions, it was a statement of fact. Besides the point/counter-point section every article reads as if MTs for power items are a statement of fact. You'll forgive me if I take your dismissal with a grain of salt.

Zulu, wake up brother. We, the community, are the ones who pay for and breathe life into your product. Without us CCP is nothing. Why the hell are you trying to chase us away?




Yea, it was a debate the way FOX News has "debates".

Natalia Kovac
Minmatar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:48:00 - [1267]
 

Self destructed about 100 mils' worth of crap from my Jita hangar. Good to have a clearout!! Laughing

Realdoll1
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:49:00 - [1268]
 

Edited by: Realdoll1 on 24/06/2011 22:50:38
The only question that matters is the one you didnt address.

What about the non-vanity item future of the store?


ExclamationExclamationExclamationQuestionQuestionQuestion

SJ

PS The only reason this patch went smoothly is because you didnt actually add anything.

Stignos
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:49:00 - [1269]
 

I cannot trust this companies word when it comes to what they tell us the community and what they really plan in main office, no apology or correction of course will change that, because it all could just be more lies.

I looked forward the future of this game and that of DUST 514, now I will move on to other games where I at least do not know what they really think of us the players.

Biomassing my char rite now, go ahead CCP check it.

Ill also make sure to tell anyone else I talk about MMO´s what you really think of players and the community that kept you going for eight years.

Caldari SpyGlass
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:49:00 - [1270]
 

Edited by: Caldari SpyGlass on 24/06/2011 22:51:39
Yeah in all fairness CCP Zulu, the wording of "Fearless" which I might add the word fearless is just stupid egocentric marketer speak for the sake of shareholders and moronic CEOs, was worded in such a way that is actively assuming the consumer is a gullible idiot that will just buy things for the sake of emotional attachment or social proof.. this is further echoed by this very blog entry.

The whole "Brand culture" argument is just blatant market speak as well, you guys are charging people for items that don't exist, and you're charging Way way way way too much, more so than your competitors even. You're trying to rip people off, no question about it.. No matter how you sugar coat it, all you're doing is ripping people off who are gullible to buy it. This is wrong. You guys are an insult to capitalism, at least those brand labels that cost $1000 give you something real :P.

And as has been said, firstly there should NOT have been a need to discuss MT, the entire team just should have flat out said NO to it because of how stupid it is you've done more damage in doing this than any of your competitors ever have way to self terminate, secondly this discussion should be been extended to CSM and the greater community- plus the documents should have been made public from the start. More transparency could have avoided this entire storm in a teacup.

Business Ethics for Sale!!!

Anyway most of us are unhappy about this and are voting with our subs, you want the money back, make us happy.

leth ghost
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:50:00 - [1271]
 

Edited by: leth ghost on 24/06/2011 22:50:31
I don't even play EVE regularly but reading the forums the last few days has been morbidly fascinating. Based on what I've seen both before and after the dev blog was posted, very little in the way of actual concerns was addressed, especially regarding the demands for an answer on whether "micro"transactions would indeed eventually encompass non-vanity items.

Sadly, my interest in World of Darkness fades more the longer they mismanage this mess

Arcaneidas
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:50:00 - [1272]
 

Since CCP can do things and not justify their actions with a proper answer, I will follow that genius model. Afterall, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, is it not?Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


Indy Rider
Amarr
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:51:00 - [1273]
 

So a whole load of waffle and you have still failed to answer what I think is the biggest concern to us, will Aurum be used to gain exclusive items, beyond clothes?

Maybe its just me, but prehaps I need a monacle to see an apology, because this is just not good enough. I won't be renewing my accounts.

Then banning one of the people who have contributed in a way that few ever had? I don't care what he said, or who he said it to, I would have thought that some could have understood how passionate we can get (obviously).

Toodles, I'll be taking my money elsewhere.

NosubstanceHere
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:51:00 - [1274]
 

Edited by: NosubstanceHere on 24/06/2011 22:51:12
CCP Zulu,

You have not addressed any concerns as stated by the players. What you have done is addressed what you think should have been addressed, Big Freaking Difference. You arent hearing or acknolagding what any of the players wanted you too, rather only what you (or your bosses) want.

Anyways I'll just leave this here: Unholy Rage

-NosubtsanceHere

Republica Winder
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:51:00 - [1275]
 

Originally by: Caldari SpyGlass
Yeah in all fairness CCP Zulu, the wording of "Fearless" which I might add is just stupid egocentric marketer speak for the sake of shareholders and moronic CEOs, was worded in such a way that is actively assuming the consumer is a gullible idiot that will just buy things for the sake of emotional attachment or social proof.. this is further echoed by this very blog entry.

The whole "Brand culture" argument is just blatant market speak as well, you guys are charging people for items that don't exist, and you're charging Way way way way too much, more so than your competitors even. You're trying to rip people off, no question about it.. No matter how you sugar coat it, all you're doing is ripping people off who are gullible to buy it. This is wrong. You guys are an insult to capitalism, at least those brand labels that cost $1000 give you something real :P.

And as has been said, firstly there should NOT have been a need to discuss MT, the entire team just should have flat out said NO to it because of how stupid it is you've done more damage in doing this than any of your competitors ever have way to self terminate, secondly this discussion should be been extended to CSM and the greater community- plus the documents should have been made public from the start. More transparency could have avoided this entire storm in a teacup.

Business Ethics for Sale!!!

Anyway most of us are unhappy about this and are voting with our subs, you want the money back, make us happy.


As I said on the last page, fearlessness isn't a virtue. Unthinking animals are fearless (like the lemming). Fear helps stop us from doing dumb things. Like destroying the golden goose that lays the golden eggs.

Crazy Craven
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:51:00 - [1276]
 

My question is, why all the hard work and time spent on barbie and ken (The Sims Approach)? Nobody want's to play dress up, they want to play EVE, PVE, PVP etc, next you will introduce new beds and lamps and such, maybe a sexier new wall mirror?

Come on CCP I don't remember reading anywhere on here or anywhere else that fans wanted dressup action in EVE yet you have dedicated a lot of time and money into something that's not required and your cost per item is off the wall.

Maybe if you spent as much time resolving current issues within the game/game mechanics, people would not have such an issue with this.

Lirael Dyrim
Gallente
In Bacon We Trust
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:51:00 - [1277]
 

Just gonna quote myself from the parley thread:

Originally by: Lirael Dyrim
Surprise, surprise. A devblog full of self serving vapid trash about your new "gorgeous" product. A devblog that took you TWO days to write when the community is in UPROAR, with nearly 200 pages of responses to your frankly weak request for calm and poor communications.

This devblog gives us nothing, you have not addressed our "concerns" at all. You've just glossed over them. Gone oh well "LOL GUISE, INTERNAL NEWSLETTER, MY BAD". It's really confusing to me that you would have to put all that into a newsletter in the first place. If it's not representative of company opinion, why is it printed in the company newsletter? Why not have a meeting where there's less chance of your slimy money grabbing plans slipping into the wrong hands? I guess I'm old fashioned.

What about the direction of AURUM? And the direction of EVE in terms of Microtransactions? You never even mentioned the one thing that is driving the EVE community to it's biggest showing of collective rage since I started playing. What about CQ? Are you sorting out performance issues? Is it staying optional? The questions are all endless and unanswered, you should see, there are 200 pages of them.

As per your assumption that we're all soooo angry about the price of the clothing, you're clearly blind. The monocle has become a symbol of ridicule. Clearly, you know this and you know that the prices are ridiculous. Have you EVER bought a $1000 pair of jeans? I know for a fact that I never have. I'm not vapid enough to put my entire self confidence into a piece of material stitched by people earning 20 cents an hour. And that's REAL clothing, this is PIXELS.

It's really insulting to your customers for you to consider us only interested in your hyped up pixel Barbie closet if it has the extortionate price tag it has at the moment. I like to consider EVE players to be quite savvy and I can tell from the reactions of so many people unsubbing that we have had enough.

Your company is completely blind and it will be your downfall. This devblog could have saved you but it's another steaming turd of lies, delusion and insult.


Letting my two other PLEXED accounts run dry after July and this one once my 3 month sub runs out.

Calliste Orange
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:51:00 - [1278]
 

Edited by: Calliste Orange on 24/06/2011 22:51:47
Originally by: CEOcat
This was probably the most pointless CCP response yet including some rather ill placed sarcastic one-liners.



Yes. Wondering in which direction that sarcasm was aimed, reading between the lines. We're assuming it's at the playerbase and it may well be so. But yeppers, the sarcasm is damn near ambiguous enough to feasibly work in the opposite direction, in my opinion.



Naomi Wildfire
Amarr
Spricer
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:51:00 - [1279]
 

Quote:
but you should remember that we are talking about clothes. Look at the clothes you are currently wearing in real life. Do you have any specific brands? Did you choose it because it was better quality than a no-name brand? Assume for a short while that you are wearing a pair of $1,000 jeans from some exclusive Japanese boutique shop.


are you serious?

Lets talk a bit more eve/RL:

RL
1 pair of jeans = 50$
1 pair of designer jeans = 1000$

For thousand bucks i could also buy a new PC, a small used Car or a few other things.

EVE
1 pair of designer jeans = ~230m ISK (i read that somewhere)
1 frigate sized spaceship = 200k ISK
1 cruizer sized spaceship = 4m ISK
1 bc sized spaceship = 20-30m ISK
1 battleship sized spaceship = 50-100m ISK

Keeping in mind that the Capsuleers are the richest people in the universe we let everyone wear already luxury jeans for 1000ISK, that means we'll get jeans that are 230.000 times more luxury than the already very luxury jeans. And considering how luxury your 230m Jeans is, its just a mass-product everyone can wear and noone in RL would buy that stuff.


Okay thats it, i now need to decide if i buy a new dress or a faction fit marauder.

Katra Novac
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:52:00 - [1280]
 

Originally by: Dihl Dacella
CCP have played this perfectly.

The number of unsubs that will result from this is marginal at best. 200-page thread of rage comprised largely of alt postings are mostly bluffs, and Zulu has called it. The harder and faster they go with transitioning to more microtransactions, the sooner they can proceed with future development plans and redefine their marketing strategy.

The majority of forum ragers are too invested in this game to ever truly part with it, unless forced to because they were stupid enough to get themselves banned, and the majority of the playerbase doesn't read the forums to begin with and doesn't care one way or the other.

After the press settles down and EVE continues to move along and grow, CCP will become the envy of every subscription-based MMO in the business who don't have a solid enough game to survive the microtransaction switch. EVE will continue to fill a niche in entertainment that no other game quite can.

"They'll be fine until they sell things that give 'unfair' advantages! Then they're screwed!"

Players can already purchase a large number of gtcs with cash, purchase a high sp, capital-ship capable pilot, and immediately skip to endgame. Alliances do this all the time.



People have bluffed in the past but I doubt many will bluff over this.

People are invested and if CCP is deliberately pushing them out then you should take note, because you will know what to expect when you end up in the same situation. Being heavily invested should not stop someone form quiting, if you don't quit when you know you should then CCP has got you hooked like some slave to their game. Always know when to quit.

PhoenixDawn
Gallente
Forge Regional Security
United Corporations Of Modern Eve
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:52:00 - [1281]
 

Oh, and all of you folks who are quitting, please contract your stuff to me.
Not that I will use it, I just want more stuff to glut my assets list with.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:52:00 - [1282]
 

Originally by: Republica Winder

Fear is a very important emotion. No, one shouldn't be ruled by it, or give into it. But it helps you make better decisions. Fear is a warning. Fear stops you from doing something really dumb.



Fear can be countered by a small group of idiots reinforcing delusions that risk is less.

In CCPs case by telling each other how smart they are.

Albretch
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:53:00 - [1283]
 

That devblog was incredibly insulting. You answered none of the actual issues that caused the now 200+ page thread.

I love EVE and hate to see it end this way.

General Grevous
Caldari
Comrades in Construction
Wayfarer Stellar Initiative
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:53:00 - [1284]
 

Edited by: General Grevous on 24/06/2011 22:55:20
Basically what this blog says and like an earlier post indicates is that the MT items are here to stay. no going back. the lack of response confirms that they are planning to do the things outlined in the newsletter otherwise we would have heard that they are not going forward on this by now.

There just figuring out a way to tell us this hence the time... meanwhile we sit here thinking, they wouldn't do this would they?

i believe they will.

I just hope i'm wrong on the NGE mk 2.

Austherus Sialomaet
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:53:00 - [1285]
 

Originally by: Krell Kroenen
Originally by: Smagd

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?



Please note that I'll take no answer as a "Yes".

Thank you.


This is my question as well, I could careless about vanity items but if you start adding things that impact game play and little Jimmy can use his mommy's credit card to get an leg up then I am out of here with my 3 subs.

P.S. That jeans example... bad choice and way out of touch with what we are upset about. Also if those were just the opinions and ideas of high ranking employees that have a direct impact on the direction of the game why the hell are you surprised we took their comments to heart?



Mr Morita
Project Nemesis
Moar Tears
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:53:00 - [1286]
 

Originally by: CCP Manifest
CCP Zulu speaks on the Fearless newsletter and Monocles in this dev blog.


Seriously, if I wanted a monocle in a game i'd play monopoly in my mankini.

Okay, on a more serious note CCP, do not put microtransactions in this game that would alter sov or PVP. If you do that, you would be ****ing many loyal subscribers in the ass. What you should do if you wanted MT in Eve is to use it ina clothing or custom ship skin scenario. People who pay money to play this game should not have to pay EVEN MORE ****ING MONEY in order to access content that should be open to everyone. Yeah, people will spend money to buy a pimp monacle for their badass intergalactic space hustler. What most subscribers do not want to see is having to pay an extra $4 a month in order to anchor a POS in high sec.

tl;dr
CCP, if you want Eve to go the way of the dinosaurs and SWG, put game-altering MT into the game. I can tell you for one, you will definately lose a loyal customer.

-Mo

Mister Smithington
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:53:00 - [1287]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu
Seriously, these people were doing their jobs and do not deserve the hate and ****storm being pointed at them.

If doing their jobs was to state their opinion, and their opinion is to trash the sandbox, and **** Eve with microtransactions for power items, then there's something else they don't deserve.

Our money.

meslave
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:53:00 - [1288]
 

same as every one else, BUT WHY AM I STILL LOOKING AT A ****ING DOOR I CARN'T OPEN Evil or Very Mad

grgjegb gergerg
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:53:00 - [1289]
 

Maybe CCP should stop being "Fearless", and maybe show a bit of fear.

It's a useful evolutionary tool, it keeps organisms from doing things that are likely to get them killed.

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:53:00 - [1290]
 

NOT GOOD ENOUGH



We want to know if CCP is planning on extending microtransactions to non-vanity items. We want a simple answer to this question, and instead we got an ambiguous answer which simultaneously attempts to cause players to assume an answer without binding CCP to any action.

This is deceitful and is the reason why I canceled my two accounts an hour ago. I will resubscribe if CCP will answer truthfully and honestly.

Honesty doesn't mean merely not telling lies. It means telling the WHOLE truth. If CCP is going to introduce non-vanity items for microtransactions: so be it. I will play so long as the game is fun to play.

But if CCP is going to hold their customers with such contempt as to try to hide the truth from their customers, then I can not possibly support a company company that behaves this way. Here's a clue for the clueless: I (and probably many other people who have unsubbed their accounts) feel like CCP is treating their customers as objects who do not deserve an honest answer.

And if the reason why you are being ambiguous is because you don't want to commit to any course of action, then tell us this! Tell us that you want to leave non-vanity items for microtransactions as an option in the future.

THE ONLY THING WE WANT FROM YOU, CCP, IS CLEAR AND HONEST COMMUNICATION



Well, we want a great game too.


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