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Sense of Serendipity
Echoes of Nowhere
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:38:00 - [1201]

Edited by: Yagen on 24/06/2011 23:52:03
Edited by: Yagen on 24/06/2011 23:51:15
Oh, btw, to stay on topic with a "focused discussion on pricing strategy" : What is the argument that made you think that you could get away with less than a third of what was expected of this expansion, and then make the customer pay for a bit more of content?

So my answer to what's wrong pretty much is "charging for it at all".

Then, if you are in financial troubles, why not devise a PR strategy for that instead?

Wrath of Fenris
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:38:00 - [1202]

Originally by: CCP Zulu
Hey all. To clarify this blog, its intent was to address two topics and two topics only;

1. What Fearless is and the nature of its content
2. The pricing strategy behind the NeX store

I do realize there are other concerns you have and those will be addressed, but doing it all at the same time would make the messaging tricky and muddled and not allow for a focused discussion. I understand a lot of the frustration going around but if we want to discuss then we need to do so in a constructive and focused manner.


Hey, CCP Zulu/Arnar. Thanks for clearing up that this dev blog was just about those 2 points. However do you maybe think that was a mistake. The people are revolting (insert joke here), and you ask them to eat cake.

There can be no excuse for personal attacks, I understand that CCP Soundwave was playing (possible) devils advocate. But you must understand from all the posts, threads and publicity the PROBLEM is not who said what, how it was leaked, or even the deployment of Incarna (even for people like me who couldn't care less about walking in stations, thats for other people).

It is now ALL about the future. IS THERE A STRONG POSSIBILITY THAT NEX STORE WILL SELL SPACESHIP ITEMS THAT WILL EFFECT THE MARKET (different looking scorpion without using a scorpion from game, faction ammo, faction standings, for example)

A simple.. NEX STORE IS FOR VANITY ITEMS ONLY... and you want to charge 1000's of BUCKS for stuff.. GO AHEAD.. good luck.

The problem is we are not hearing that.. we are hearing NOTHING.

And that worries me, more than anything else in this game worries me. I'm scared that 7 years of investment, thousands and thousands of pounds playing a game may be wiped out as I hover over cancel.

I've never been a bitter vet. I love EVE.. I love FanFest.. I love alliance tournys.. I love the sandbox.

But if it is possible to bring something into the internet space ship game from fresh air that will give someone an advantage, its over for me.

Yes, you may gain some subscriptions as its easier. But people won't mine, won't rat, the economy and sandbox will die, I'm not a game designer.. but SURELY you see that... PLEASE say you see it..

Confirm NEX STORE = INCARNA... thats all we ask.

Wall Street Trading
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:38:00 - [1203]

Seriously, where's my ship spinning?

Attrezzo Pox
The Concordiat
Concordiat Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:38:00 - [1204]

The only thing I hate about Eve is the Eve community.
Those decent players trundle forward with doing whatever it is they want to do with little or no complaints and largely make eve what it is.

By contrast "protestors" ruin a game otherwise fun by letting everything get so personal. They feel some awkward deep connection to a game. Something that the word "need" should never be addressed toward and goes a step beyond want to entertainment. Eve, like every other game, is synonomous with things like crossword puzzles, baseball, and channel surfing. It should never be such an important part of your life that the friend-of-a-friend leaked internal newsletter suggesting charging aur for "real items" throws you into a rabbling bunch of goons.

I never thought the eve playerbase would be such a good huntingroung for broken people.

I guess if CCP ever did anything "wrong" it was to make the goal of eve to invest so much of people's work and effort. It seems that rather than allowing eve to become a place to blow off stress people are consumed in it's virtual space wholely and end up getting in such a tissy about something like this. Good God what would you do if they sold out to a chinese pay-to-play company.

Bottom line is, if you don't like it ok.... whatever, send zulu an e-mail. If he never answers or you don't like the reponse quit. It's not worth your worry.

OR you could do what any reasonable sane person would do and just wait until there is actually a problem. Not omgs! My ship is docking me in the roomz!!! Buy a decent machine... christ in heaven I'm running this on a laptop. A cheap hp for that matter. If your machine running seven mining bots stops loading stations WONDERFUL! Good riddence.

CCP keep in mind, by in large the people happy with the changes won't whine on this post. Please don't let these people ruin a good strategy. I and surely the majority of others are looking forward to the expansion of incarna AND aur. If anything eve would be better off without some of the crybears and trolls.

Goatse Girl
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:39:00 - [1205]

Modgade Eode Unforht
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:39:00 - [1206]

Hey Zulu you just screwed up big time - ccp has to earn back the trust of a lot of players now!

Posted - 2011.06.24 22:39:00 - [1207]

Incarna hasn't done anything to break the game for me, so I'm going to keep playing. Maybe CCP will make that fateful game breaking decision later like Sony did for SWG, but right now I'm playing and watching to see where CCP goes with this. CCP isn't going to make any permanent decisions about the store only 2 days after putting it out there. Just like us they need to learn about an in game store. Unsubbing is one way to protest the decision, the other is not to use the store. A store that sells nothing goes out of business.

Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:39:00 - [1208]


Lies, lies and more lies.

Deceit, arrogance and ignorance, from one reply to the next.

We were lied to, again and again, and we were milked for all we were worth.

They told us bare faced lies about not introducing MT, then when they did, they said it was only going to for "vanity" issues, and then their next move was to try to sneak in a SCORPION for cash, with the excuse "but its only for a trial week!!!"

We rage and we scream about the betrayal, and finally Pann shows up and demonstrates her complete ignorance by assuming that the cost of their worthless dross was the issue!!!

"But no" says Manifest, "that was just a misunderstanding. Pann and everyone KNOWS what your issues are, and we'll be getting important people to answer soon."

And along comes Zulu.

And what does Zulu have to say???


So now YOU lied Manifest.

CCP: Deceit, ignorance and arrogance.

Nikolae Varius
Mongrel Squad
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:39:00 - [1209]

Could you be more out of touch with your customers?

Bon Hedus
Voice of the Blood Raiders
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:39:00 - [1210]

Dear CCP Zulu / Zulupark, In response to your recent blog post addressing the concerns brought up in this thread, you will find my response below. Sincerely Bon Hedus.

You have cancelled your EVE Online subscription.

Your account will be suspended at the end of the current subscription period, expiring on 14 September 2011.

Your characters will be stored safely and be ready for you to enjoy again should you decide to return.

If you feel that this cancellation has been made in error, you can quickly and easily reopen your account by clicking below.

Garreth Vlox
Obsidian Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:39:00 - [1211]

Originally by: Tiny Mongo
tldr: Dev's are acting more grown up then this vocal bunch. Cool your jets and have a civil discussion.

we tried that dude, we were IGNORED. not one single question has been answered every dev blog continues to parrot the same bull**** over and over and refer to said bull**** as "answers" and "new information" not once have the stopped the propaganda parade long enough to actually listen to what people are asking the question of "will this go past vanity items" has been posted and reposted for the better part of a day, and yet the dev blog released have way thru said day of ranting ignored said question and again parroted the bull**** company line.

Shuu Naifu
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:40:00 - [1212]

Dear CCP Zulu,

You could have made this work you know, had you taken your time, been more subtle- more insidious. Sure, you can't fool everyone, but what's most insulting is that you thought your playerbase in this game of cut throat economics- would not recognise your greed driven motives when you enacted them in such a hamhanded manner.

That is what disgusts me most. Not the NEX prices. Not the impending P2W game-wrecking updates. But the complete disregard for the intelligence of your players. We are not from World of Warcraft. We are not 13 year old crackshots living the good-life out of their parents wallets. We are intelligent, creative, innovative people who came to eve to invest our time and money in sculpting something brilliant.
But here we are. Years down the line. It's hard to believe that the same Developers that gave us this beautiful space sandbox are now ****ting in said sandbox, scrabbling to cover up their defecation with poorly painted pixel art.
As for the prices in the Nex:

Look at the clothes you are currently wearing in real life. Did you choose it because it was better quality than a no-name brand? Assume for a short while that you are wearing a pair of $1,000 jeans from some exclusive Japanese boutique shop.
Here you talk about quality CCP Zulu. And rightly so, there is a very good reason people pay extortionate amounts for what they wear.
But what makes your NeX clothes so good? Where is the quality? At $1000 I expect bespoke service, fitting, platinum thread- denim of the highest quality crafted by master seamstresses, I expect it to be on the catwalk, donned and beloved by famous models, celebrities and fashion critics worldwide. And here you are telling me that these little pictures warrant the same adulation, the same respect as that? Sticking a 20000 price tag on a Fiat doesn't make it a ferrari CCP Zulu. Get someone from Prada to design your clothes- then I will accept your prices. Until then, don't insult the fashion industry and your player base with your poorly conceived little costumes.

Why would you want to wear a pair of $1,000 jeans when you can get perfectly similar jeans for under $50? What do other people think about you when they see you wearing them?

I can tell you now what the vast majority of players have to say about the people whose characters are wearing these clothes. They think they're stupid. They think they are gullible, mindless twits for bending to these prices. Not only that, but there are widespread plans to gank these players.

People have been shocked by the price range in the NeX store, but you should remember that we are talking about clothes.
Perhaps it is you CCP Zulu who needs to remember we are talking about clothes. Clothes that can not be seen on ones avatar or even be seen by other players at all. Clothes, the price of which could buy me a real life ticket from Cardiff to London, and across the eurotunnel to France where I could go on a real haute shopping spree.

It goes without saying that the largest concern here is the future of eve regarding the nature of what is being sold on the NEX. The plans revealed in the internal newsletter to introduce, ships, faction ammo and standing to the NEX store- if implemented, will utterly ruin eve both economically and in the fundamental manner in which the game functions. Years of subscriptions that we dedicated to grinding standing, carefully allocating skills, and meticulous corporate multitasking will mean nothing. You are nullifying the efforts of over one hundred thousand players and if you think for a second that we will not take this to heart then you are entirely wrong. If we wanted to play a game where one could buy victory we would not have ground our sweat blood and tears into eve online. Because that's not what eve online stands for.

Every player posting tonight only does so because they love your game. Please, don't forget that.

Posted - 2011.06.24 22:40:00 - [1213]

You have got to be kidding me.

We want f***ing discussion and we want f***ing answers. We don't want aggressive dev blogs with no content.

Do you feel like you're under attack? Well you are. Your customers are enraged and you're the laughing stock of the mmo community for selling horse armor in space. Jesus Christ guys, do something. This blog is a waste of time.

Katra Novac
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:40:00 - [1214]

Originally by: Maisonian
How can somthing so simple be so difficult to answer?

I have a theory on that:

Because they won't tell us they obviously intend to add items to the MT shop that will have advantages.

What they're probably hoping is by not telling people and making them wait longer, it gives people longer to adjust to the idea.

They know they're going to lose people but by keeping quiet they hope it won't be so many.

Only a theory.

Theory two, they're trying to break Eve as they could possibly have some kind of insurance against such an occurrence. Maybe Dust is a pile of crap and is likely to lose money.

Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:40:00 - [1215]

CCP, have you ever stopped to consider the precise meaning of the word "fearless"? Let's have a look.

To be fearless is to be without fear. However, courage does not mean acting without fear. Rather, to have courage is to act DESPITE your fear. To act without fear at all, is just plain stupid.

So whenever you say WE ARE FEARLESS, what you're actually saying is WE ARE STUPID.

Your blog is also stupid. It completely fails to address the concern everybody has right now, about your plans to introduce MT for non-vanity despite earlier promises not to do so. It may only be a preliminary internal discussion, but the existence of that discussion itself is still enough to break that earlier promise to your players.

All this is actually quite ironic because, on the strength of feeling you and I both see on the forums at the moment, if I was in your position CCP, right now I'd be feeling very afraid indeed.

This kind of ****storm that you continue to perpetuate by not addressing the core issue of MT for non-vanity items, is doing a masterful job of challenging the notion that all publicity is good publicity.

But you just don't seem to see that. I guess that's just because you're FEARLESS, I suppose.

Mataki Chenn
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:40:00 - [1216]

I hate threadknoghts like this but I am going to post now a very simpmple message....

The prices in the NEX store are outragous because they are connected to PLEX witch gives everything you put in that store a cash value. 4 plex or 80-90 bucks will get me 1 monical . It is true that you can buy this stuff on the normal market via isk but all of those prices will be based on the number of plex that it takes to get the aur to buy the stupid stuff.

Also no "lore" reasion for this will slide. Capsulears deal in ammounts witch ammount to one plannet dwellers life sllery per one isk or something crazy like that. We buy and self install implants that from what I can tell are made from the brains of people (or the bio parts of them are at least) and I can get a +5 added intenraly with no scars no visible marks for 100 mill isk but you are asking me to pay multiple billions to add a superficial eye implant (monical) or a snazzy new coat ? I think not.

Arya Greywolf
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:40:00 - [1217]

Originally by: Smagd

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?


Dihl Dacella
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:40:00 - [1218]

CCP have played this perfectly.

The number of unsubs that will result from this is marginal at best. 200-page thread of rage comprised largely of alt postings are mostly bluffs, and Zulu has called it. The harder and faster they go with transitioning to more microtransactions, the sooner they can proceed with future development plans and redefine their marketing strategy.

The majority of forum ragers are too invested in this game to ever truly part with it, unless forced to because they were stupid enough to get themselves banned, and the majority of the playerbase doesn't read the forums to begin with and doesn't care one way or the other.

After the press settles down and EVE continues to move along and grow, CCP will become the envy of every subscription-based MMO in the business who don't have a solid enough game to survive the microtransaction switch. EVE will continue to fill a niche in entertainment that no other game quite can.

"They'll be fine until they sell things that give 'unfair' advantages! Then they're screwed!"

Players can already purchase a large number of gtcs with cash, purchase a high sp, capital-ship capable pilot, and immediately skip to endgame. Alliances do this all the time.

Mind Games.
0ccupational Hazzard
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:40:00 - [1219]


Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:40:00 - [1220]

Edited by: Ancyker on 24/06/2011 22:41:26
This dev blog is a joke. The first part I already figured out a while ago and that's fine, the second part about pricing -- you obviously don't know how games work and until you learn I'm not giving you any more money.

I'll play until my (5) subs run out, then I'm done until you get some sense or some employees that actually know what they are doing. In the mean time it seems world of tanks will get my money. Maybe you should look at them for an example of how to do things, $1-2 for sh!t, not $20, not $60, $1. Adding things for MORE? Are you INSANE?


P.S. The people that pay $1000 for jeans are rich and insane.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Posted - 2011.06.24 22:41:00 - [1221]

Compared to 8 years ago - the state of player / CCP relations has never been so poor.

CCP - how did you let it come to this? You were original and shunned other approaches to MMO design in order to make something unique and excellent. Where are we going with this now? You really seem to have disconnected with your player base.

This blog post doesn't really go far enough to settle the concerns about changes in direction. You're going to have to move towards the player base rather than expect them to move towards you.

The longer it tales for you to 'get it' - the worse this is going to get.

Natalia Kovac
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:41:00 - [1222]

We will take that Jita statue down eventually!!!!! MadMadMad

Ren Nekk
Dead Eye Dogs
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:41:00 - [1223]


That dev blog addresses nobody's concerns as everyone at CCP must know, and it just goes to show what a catastrophic fail this whole business is.

But it's nice to know for sure that all the angst with this over the past couple days has been entirely justified, and nice to know canceling my 4 accounts was not premature.

You do not deserve my money or my time, but since I have already helped pay for all of your jobs, I will enjoy the rest of this train wreck, as long as it lasts.

30-60 days and counting on my accounts.'s honestly nice to end my EVE career in the wake of such a disaster for CCP, who - as we all know now - has been unbelievably dishonest and disrespectful to its loyal customers.

Not such big superstars now, eh, Team Awesome?

Azran Zala
Fleet of the Damned
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:41:00 - [1224]

CCP staff T_T cause the customers are saying mean things trollololo

Crimson Empire.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:41:00 - [1225]

Originally by: Taleris Kline
Originally by: Garreth Vlox
Originally by: Taleris Kline
Wow, this is supposedly the best MMO community and this is what we have to show for ourselves.

Point #1: If I was Hilmer I would order the forums shut down until the community can get a healthy dose of perspective. The major question of "Will there be non-vanity item in the NEX store?" is not a topic of this dev blog. CCP Zulu clarified as much and still the community ignores the point of the dev blog. THIS IS A GAME!. THIS IS A HOBBY! Do you guys really like what you've turned into over a hobby? Can you really look in the mirror and be proud of raging this much over a hobby? This is how riots happen after a sporting event. How silly do these look? We have it right here.

Poing #2: A better question to be asking is acknowledging that this is not the blog with the answer to THE QUESTION and asking who is responsible for it.

Point #3: Subscribers do not write the paychecks for CCP employees. NEWSFLASH! Those checks are written by CCP incorporated. Does anyone truely know where CCP gets all of their money from? Threatening CCP employees paychecks is not only wrong but just shows immaturity.

There are ways to disagree respectfully and there are ways to look like a total jerk. I'm seeing many more jerks than people with something intelligent to say.

DEV alt detected post with your main YARRRR!!

I admit it. I am a developer. I work with a company that does display development for helicopters. However, I am not a CCP developer and it is an ad hominum attack upon me to insinuate that I am a CCP dev alt.

Can you logically disagree with any of the points above?

I cannot logically agree with any of the points above:

1. Shutting down the forums would be very unwise, as it would further enrage the players and cause even more cancellations.
2. CCP knows what we want, and we have a good idea who is responsible for it. As such, this is not a "Poing"
3. CCP has a single product. If people stop paying for this product then CCP the company has significantly less income. If that is not replaced, layoffs ensue. Layoff = employee without paycheck.

I am a patient person. I have been respectful. I have been polite. I have been heartfelt. But my patience is running out.

Posted - 2011.06.24 22:42:00 - [1226]

Edited by: Anderling on 24/06/2011 22:55:16
SORRY - CCP ... MT would be managable but your pricing is MAD... After playing from 2003... i finally think its time for me to unsub my 3 accounts and just check back in a Year to see what has happened. I never post but WoW realy got me with this Expansion ...

Your Exchange is a ripoff!

$1000 for a Jeans ...WTF ... Plus there will be more expencive items ...WoW ...THis Dev blog made me feel like i just got Shafted!

Forge Regional Security
United Corporations Of Modern Eve
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:42:00 - [1227]

Originally by: Vim

#4 By introducing the high costly items now, they save the PLEX market from spiking, making the PLEX speculants that hoped for a massive increase in demand of plex quite bitter since the spike will not happen, costing them their speculation isk, thats billions upon billions of isk lost for them. This is exactly what CCP wants, that noone should profit to easily from speculatinon on the changes of a patch.

The first valid explination I've seen yet. I had contemplated what this new PLEX outlet would do to the plex market and saw it begin happening, and subsequently stagnate once the real prices of the claptrap turned out to be.
HOPEFULLY CCP will bring the NEX down to realistic territory over the coming months... like, perhaps, $0.80 for that laughably ugly monocle and $0.20 for some clothing. That's where SL is at. I might spend $5-10 for a complete Avatar and another $10 for clothing and mods to make it 'mine'. The only time I would consider $80 would be for a complete custom AV using a stock market AV and hire someone to mod it to my specs. Heck, a complete AV from the ground up and unique only runs about $200 (Kinzart).

Originally by: Vim

No content expansion?
*New Turrets, laying foundation for upgrading of the rest of effects in eve as well as other goodies. <-This one was pretty huge of an undertaking.

And it worked out rather well, IMO. The new icons take some getting used to but are pretty sharp. Unfortunately the turret placement on my Phantasm puts these huge pods on the end of slender struts... which is uglier than the south end of a northbound garbage truck.
Originally by: Vim

*More Bugfixes, fixing things that been broken: Always fricking good.

But the introduction of new bugs obviates the work, and the true bugs (content introduced with past patches and left to languish... COSMOS, Faction Warfare, et al) have not been addressed or even glanced yet beyond the reduction of farmability.
Originally by: Vim

*Captain Quarters, the first cornerstone to the actual WiS. The remaining building blocks to come in staggered releases, as they said they would do with big changes.

This aspect of the patch, to me, was rather useless. I've no need for the CQ and would happily go back to the old hangar style if I could. As I said before, if I want to walk around I'll log into SecondLife and sext some people up out of boredom.

Ethan Bejorn
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:42:00 - [1228]

Only CCP would make a situtation this bad even worse.

Josefine Etrange
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:43:00 - [1229]

Someone should tell those poor individuals who will get plenty of beating at the next fanfest that they should htfu. If they wont we will see a lot of dev tears soon.
But I still have to admit, Zulu is right on the jeans-thing.

If someone is dumb enough to buy a 1000$ jeans just for bragging he will deserve the beating he will get. Zulu is more or less calling us to do the beating to those with monocles. Kick them out of your alliances, suicide them in high sec, pod their asses in low. Kick them out of null. Express what you think about ccps plans that way!

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:43:00 - [1230]

Originally by: I P Freely
bare minimum respectful and put forward there concerns in a constructive manner.

We tried that for about 4-5 years and they kept coming to the meetings with blank looks like they didn't know what we were talking about.

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