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Posted - 2011.06.24 22:27:00 - [1141]

Corporate runaround
The opinions and views expressed in Fearless are just that; opinions and views. They are not CCP policy nor are they a reliable source of CCP views as a company.


Ignoring the issue. Checks for any confirmation on plans for non vanity cash shop


Telling stuff we already know

We will gradually introduce items at other price points, definitely lower and probably higher than what‘s in the store today.


Yeah this is about what I expected.

/me braces for threadnaught

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:27:00 - [1142]

Originally by: CCP Manifest
CCP Zulu speaks on the Fearless newsletter and Monocles in this dev blog.

Originally by: CCP Manifest
Captain arrogance, speaks about how to give customers one up the backside, puts sand in the vasaline first, and how to throw petrol on a fire

Terrare Vordai
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:27:00 - [1143]

CCP is fine until they start selling game-affecting things via microtransactions. Anything that is purchasable that has any impact in the game other than in a VERY strict vanity sense will lose a LOT of subscribers, myself included. I pay a monthly fee (or plex, whatever) in order for a fair, level playing field. I will not play a game where people can simply pay to have an upper hand.

Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:28:00 - [1144]

Edited by: Shandir on 24/06/2011 22:29:07
Originally by: Shiori Takahashi
Zulu's Blog is quite possibly the most insulted I've ever been as a paying customer for a service.

This, plus testing my new sig. -3 accounts here. My partner in game, also not resubbing. -3 accounts there, too.

I was looking forward to fanfest, maybe next year - well, not going now.

I have personally brought at least 4 other people into the game, and have been a strong advocate of EVE to all nay-sayers. "It's not a game for everyone, and it's not perfect, but CCP have an amazing vision, and the community have a lot of care about the game."

Well, CCP only sees money right now, and the community that was awesome, is leaving.

Edit: And I have never threatened or stated I was quitting before, except when I said that if non-vanity MTs made it into the game, it would be a game-ender for me. Well, I have no doubt what CCP plans, and I'm following what I promised.

Dirk Smacker
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:28:00 - [1145]

Since you made the analogy, how much does a life subscription cost for a parent whose child goes to college? $200,000?

Maybe you should sell vanity subscriptions for $1000/month. Give us some super awesome load screen and vanity music.

Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:28:00 - [1146]

Zulu, Zulu, Zulu. I was really hoping you guys could put together a real devblog with input from the CSM, but it's obvious that you are either ignorant or spiteful towards the concerns of the playerbase. It really hurts to see this considering how much I was defending CCP recently. I'm having a hard time believing that you aren't purposefully trying to sabotage eve, as ridiculous as that idea is.

I'm not sure I could have written a worse devblog if I had tried.

Please please please listen to the CSM. They are the only ones that can help you salvage this now.

Vistus Geyer
Black Company Merc's
Blazing Angels Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:28:00 - [1147]

Just think tho .... when you log into Eve ona sunday afternoon and find only 10k players logged in ... this might fix the Fleet lag issue ... then again maybe notShocked

Sofia Coren
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:28:00 - [1148]

Originally by: CCP Zulu
In almost the same instant as we deployed Incarna - which by the way is one of our more smooth and successful expansions...

Has it not sunk in yet?

The first thing people did when we got your new expansion - was to turn it OFF.

Golden Lyon Warriors
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:28:00 - [1149]

After Champions Online went free to play and offered more than Vanity items in their store, their player base increased 1000%.

Even if everyone who was against EVE having more than Vanity items in the store quit today, the money being brought in from MT would more than cover their leaving.

Face it people, the lack of an answer on non-vanity items is the answer. They are coming, period. You can either stay and take part or leave and go elsewhere.

Nothing we have to say or do here is going to change that fact, nothing. There are only maybe 5000 people taking part in these protest vs the other 400,000 that don't care and their purchases from NeX will more than make up for your absence.

Truth sucks, huh.

Gyre Vortex
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:28:00 - [1150]

Originally by: Ytrea

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

We want a straight answer.


Posted - 2011.06.24 22:29:00 - [1151]

Wow. The community is telling you, you have messed up with this expansion. We are on the ground trying telling you this is not what we want and instead of listening you just kick us while we are down and spit in our face. hmm i seem to remember another company doing this... oh yea. Sony with SWG and it's NGE. I think we know what happened there.

For the first time in my 5+ years of playing eve, I'm contemplating quitting. I will see how the next couple of days turns out but at this rate it's not looking good.

Davina Sienar
The Misinterpretation of Silence
Mean Coalition
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:29:00 - [1152]

actualy I do MT sometimes in other games... BUT.... they are MICRO and they are in games that are for free and I don't already pay a monthly fee...

Cancel Align NOW
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:29:00 - [1153]

Terrible blog.

Seriously CCP to quote yourself:
Whatever you choose to do reflects what you are and what you want others to think you are.

What you have chosen to do reflects greedy arrogance with contempt for your player base. Therefore you want us to think your greedy and arrogant therefore we are unsubbing an angry.

I have heard Jita is good this time of year.

Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:29:00 - [1154]

Thank you CCP for that devblog clearing up that it is indeed a document meant to cause inhouse debate with extreme standpoints.

Guess me and the others that realized that from just reading the title and the edition are just brighter then the average.
People are still saying: You've dodged the question!!! OMG Will you sell non vanity items?
Guess a lobotomy would not help the average rager with their reading comprehension.

They are saying exactly what it was to you: A document to cause debate with extreme standpoints, as they had been asked to.
I'am glad Soundwave can comeup with thoose ideas, because that means he knows what would be terribly bad. And he could put thoose concepts into text. As he and the others were asked to do.

I can debate pro-vegan, that does not mean I actually am. I will certainly engage from time to time in taking the opposing standpoint just because I know what arguments I struggle to counter; By taking the other side and putting them forth I get helped with increasing my knowledge on a topic in a usualy heated friendly banter. For fun. To increase eachothers skills at debate.

As for NOBLE

#1 Noone forces you to buy.

#2 Yes the prices are high now.

#3 If you grow tired of a vanity item, you can unlike most other games sell them directly on the open eve market. Hence, if you grow tired of it, you sell it to someone that wants it and your actual spent $/isk/plex on the item is suddenly close to 0. Didnt think of that angle, did you?

#4 By introducing the high costly items now, they save the PLEX market from spiking, making the PLEX speculants that hoped for a massive increase in demand of plex quite bitter since the spike will not happen, costing them their speculation isk, thats billions upon billions of isk lost for them. This is exactly what CCP wants, that noone should profit to easily from speculatinon on the changes of a patch.

No content expansion?
*New Turrets, laying foundation for upgrading of the rest of effects in eve as well as other goodies. <-This one was pretty huge of an undertaking.
*More Bugfixes, fixing things that been broken: Always fricking good.
*Captain Quarters, the first cornerstone to the actual WiS. The remaining building blocks to come in staggered releases, as they said they would do with big changes.

Now I would be a tremendously happy for the old station view and a 'go to your quarters' option over the door. Running up to five clients, I cannot run CQ properly. When CQ customization and the real WiS comes: I'll be choosing to disembark to my quarters alot, but I'll still want just the old hangar and its functionality unless I choose to depod and walk among mortals. But it looks realy promising. A+ if they make me able to switch the main screen to the news I realy want to see.

Now CCP, when is my codpiece, my pirate hat and my gurista scientists geneticly engineered bunny coming in the noble store?

Fly safe. Thanks for clearing it all up.
To the ones who still feel harmed and are not just being douches, siding with certain angry nerd that rallied her commando team of alts and buddies to inflame opinion when she got a simple forum ban: Reading comprehension lvl 3, train it. Go to a university. Take debate class A.

Ulmon Aulen
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:29:00 - [1155]

Two possibilities: either Zulu is fundamentally stupid to not comprehend and address the actual issues that his CUSTOMERS have, or thinks that we are fundamentally stupid and avoids the issue on purpose hoping we won't notice.

I hope you know that this isn't your usual forum rage, if you implement MT for non-vanity items you will regret it as you lose more money from lost subscriptions. I fear that you guys are about to **** up years of hard work and good will.

Ricardo Gonzalo Montalban
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:30:00 - [1156]

Originally by: Sensei Cohiba
Originally by: Malkev

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

Malak Artoo
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:30:00 - [1157]


Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

Posted - 2011.06.24 22:30:00 - [1158]

I feel like I've been punched in the face by one of my best friends.

When this whole rage-thingy started I treated it like a big joke expecting you guys (ccp), to take all that's been said to heart and react quite quickly, and would adress the concerns of the community.

Yet, now I find myself ever more saddened with each passing devblog, because I seem to be wrong. Every concern expressed here is 'adressed' by mentioning it only. There's not even the slightest twitch towards a possible change. All that's being told is for everyone to deal with it.

to quote blackadder:
Blackadder: 'I hear the conditions in your army are appaling.'
Wellington: well those are my conditions and you'll just have to accept them'

Is this what you are telling us?

Artificial Soldier
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:31:00 - [1159]

Sorta reminds me of

This devblog was a bit disappointing and just one more push toward the edge....

Serenity Frye
Heretic Army
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:31:00 - [1160]

Edited by: Serenity Frye on 25/06/2011 00:39:53
Edited: I probably spoke out of line in this posts previous iteration, so I apologize. I'll just state that eve is important to me, and I'm sad to see it go this way.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:31:00 - [1161]

Originally by: LordElfa
After Champions Online went free to play and offered more than Vanity items in their store, their player base increased 1000%.

Even if everyone who was against EVE having more than Vanity items in the store quit today, the money being brought in from MT would more than cover their leaving.

Face it people, the lack of an answer on non-vanity items is the answer. They are coming, period. You can either stay and take part or leave and go elsewhere.

Nothing we have to say or do here is going to change that fact, nothing. There are only maybe 5000 people taking part in these protest vs the other 400,000 that don't care and their purchases from NeX will more than make up for your absence.

Truth sucks, huh.

CCP hopes. CCP wrong.

They forget the whole premise of the game and think it's just about shinny.

Myth and Peace Lords
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:31:00 - [1162]

NEX has become the lightning rod. Concern over the direction it is pushing developer priorities seems to be hardening into outright rejection of its existence.

The Fish
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:31:00 - [1163]

Edited by: The Fish on 24/06/2011 22:31:55
Congrats on somehow making us MORE angry. The clothing analogy was probably the worst possible choice.

Edit: -3 subscriptions.

Khane Kournaut
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:31:00 - [1164]

Originally by: Sing Xing
Originally by: Korbin Dallaz
Edited by: Korbin Dallaz on 24/06/2011 22:12:06
Originally by: CCP Zulu
Hey all. To clarify this blog, its intent was to address two topics and two topics only;


You guys don't get it. You are dancing around the 500 pound gorilla in the room. The more you try to re-frame the discussion and spin this thing or try to straw man this topic into something more favorable the more our worst fears are reinforced and the more ****ed we get.

God damnit! Another one? I just corrected some other guy about it, like 4 pages ago.

You're using the 500lb gorilla metaphor wrong! The (really it is 800) 500lb gorilla metaphor, is based on the gorilla being so strong, it can do whatever the hell it please. The "elephant in the room" metaphor is about an embarresing (but obvious) thing, noone talks about, which creates an uncomfortable athmosphere (an alchoholic uncle at a picnic for instance, or the boss and the secretary having an affair).

The dancing part is way more straight forward, "Dancing around the subject", there is no animals involved in that metaphor.

FFS people, get this stuff right.

Meanwhile, people are overreacting, calm the hell down already.

I nearly p****d myself laughing on this post! Nice to see someone trying to clear up the metaphors at last.

As a side note, +1 for the last comment

kai freeborn
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:31:00 - [1165]

Originally by: Sanakan Seidensha
I don't get the rage going on in here. Maybe someone can explain how anything changes with Aurum?

Currently in EvE, you can be a noob, get fresh into the game, buy a load of Plex, use them to buy a char, use them to buy your char a mom and all the shiny stuff to fit it with.
Will sure beat those other noobs in ther Impairors, dont' you think?

If that is not power for $$$ already being a reality in EvE and has been forever, then I don't know what is...

So what's new here?

the issue is that the leaked doc has strongly hinted at MT being later used to allow buying goods by bypassing the market,, which mean that no one made it,, no one mined for it,, no one sells it for the isk, it weaken the point of industry, without industry there is no point in resources,, without the need for resources why have low and null sec,,
if you can just buy a ship and pew pew in it why bother with sec levels at all, no need for espionage, space holding, building anything,

it puts a fundimental crack in the essence of eve,through which effort isnt rewarded

what the rage is for is the lack of clarity,and what the possible outcomes could be.

Universalis Imperium
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:32:00 - [1166]

Originally by: Dr Ngo
It must be dangerous to backpedal with your leg in the chain and your head up your ass.

That is, by far, the best quote of all time...and so damn fitting.

Jonathan Caldar
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:32:00 - [1167]

Originally by: Malak Artoo

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

ARE YOU???????????????????? TELL US!!!!!!!!!!!


Posted - 2011.06.24 22:32:00 - [1168]

Edited by: Leocadminone on 24/06/2011 22:41:55
> Incarna - which by the way is one of our more smooth and successful expansions

that line ALONE shows how out of tough CCP is with the REAL WORLD of Eve.
Incarna has been NOTHING BUT issues after issue after issue, even for those of us that have deliberately turned as much of it off as we can.

*3* client updates in *2* days is NOT "smooth and successful".

On to microtransactions. I don't care how many vanity items are created, what they cost, what they are paid for. I don't have to buy them, I just won't. no big deal.

The ISSUE here - and CCP, you have FAILED TO EVEN LOOK LIKE YOU EVEN REALISE IT EXISTS - is the whole "pay real money for in-game advangage" thing.

PLEX put a toe in that door - you can buy plex with IRL money, then use it ingame for massive upgrades to your ship or ships or much better ships. but it doesn't offer a HUGE advantage given how easy it is to earn that sort of stuff IN game, and the ability for those of us that are BROKE to play the game without having to put out IRL money is a nice balance.

But when you start talking about using IRL money for things that CAN'T be bought ingame, THAT is when you're gonna kill the game through destruction of ALL trust from the playerbase.

You already have issues keeping playerbase. From what I've seen, Eve Online has the second-highest advertising budget of ANY MMORG IN THE INDUSTRY (after WoW, though you might be 3'd after Lineage since they focus so much on the Korean market). Despite that, you don't even make the Top 10 list of MMORGS based on payed accounts - and given HOW COMMON AND WIDESPREAD multiboxing is in Eve, I have some serious doubts that you have even 100,000 paying PLAYERS.

Are you SURE you want to drive a VERY LARGE number of those players away by NOT paying attention AND QUASHING this hotbutton subject IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS?

You're already ****ing off a LOT of us with the feeble semi-opt-out and "it's only temporary" crap in Incarna itself, despite PREVIOUS PROMISES THAT INCARNA WOULD HAVE AN OPT OUT.

To put it bluntly, your credibility after THIS week is at best MUD, given the wishy-washy bull**** responces to the various issues that have come up this week so far.

To the person that talked about this being Eve's version of SWG:NGE - not really the same, but there ARE some mighty nasty parallels about the game company blowing off feedback from their customer base out of sheer arrogance, ignoring the REAL issue the customer base was brining up, and nearly destroying the game over it. SWG managed to limp on for a while after that fiasco, but it led directly in the long run to SoE losing the SWG franchise when LucasArts stepped in and said "you have warped our vision way past your licence, goodby". TOo bad there's no LucasArts licensing Eve's content.....

BTW, Zulu and CCP - how does this "we're going to look into doing selling stuff ingame direct for real money" match up with your long-expressed statements that "RMT is evil"? If you can't see how hypocritical THAT pairing looks......

Dracoth Simertet
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:32:00 - [1169]

Pathetic, now try answering some of the questions you've been asked rather than putting your fingers in your ears.


Ancy Denaries
Posted - 2011.06.24 22:32:00 - [1170]

Originally by: ing SpeedyJ
OK if u want war, u can get it, lets money talks... I am waiting one week for constructive answer or -3 accounts. YARRRR!!
Err, why give it a week? I'd give it a day, at most.

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