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Fearless Worthless
Posted - 2011.06.24 10:43:00 - [1]
 

Can move this if you want.

--

This is kinda interesting, because if you look at the plex for remap thing and the $99 thing, they're basically putting this out there to see if they can get away with it, then we invest the emotional energy into fighting it, then they remove those policies, but it doesn't really cost them anything (I think) to put together these stupid things.

The other thing is that people that cancel subs who've paid far in advance (year subs) if they cancel after 6 months they get refunded less than half value (ccp pretends that you subbed for 6 months). Obviously people leaving eve are a much less powerful group in terms of getting fair treatment, but there's no acknowledgement of the loan of the other 6-months of sub in those closing conditions... not really fair.

Two groups of customers with different powers achieving different results.

Any comments on this would be appreciated. If it sounds like I don't really know what I'm talking about here, that's probably because I don't, lol. I just figured that you guys are the pricing / market guys so you'd be more qualified to discuss this than the EGD folks or whatever.

Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2011.06.24 11:27:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Lederstrumpf on 24/06/2011 11:38:32

Originally by: Fearless Worthless
it doesn't really cost them anything (I think) to put together these stupid things.


Loss of confidence always comes at a huge cost.

It might not be visible immediately. But it's enough to influence whether you decide to get yourself an alt or not, whether you decide to pay subscription fees in advance or not, whether you invite friends or not, whether you switch game the moment there's some other new game available, whether you will allow yourself to ever buy another CCP game, whether you'd decide to develop as third party developer, etc.

In business reliability is important. Whoever tries to push a fork up paying customer entrails might and possibly will try to do the same with future business "partners".
What's priced at 99$ today could be priced at 9999$ tomorrow.

Not to speak of the marketing damage due to this BS going 'round from mouth to mouth... for anybody complaining usually there's a multitude of folks who can't be assed to even complain. They just turn away silently.

Fearless Worthless
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:14:00 - [3]
 

That was a great response, thank you.

Money for pants
Posted - 2011.06.25 12:46:00 - [4]
 

Being an ass is a valid business model, it is not a great way to build a community though.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:01:00 - [5]
 

For now what they achieved is to shatter the players trust.

Also, the first important defections are starting.

Ombey, author of the famous Ombey 2D EvE Maps announced he unsubbed today.

This is not the EvE I wanted.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:27:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 25/06/2011 14:27:31

$99 for a site licence is very cheap compared to what some charge.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:27:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 25/06/2011 15:27:28
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 25/06/2011 14:27:31

$99 for a site licence is very cheap compared to what some charge.


Why do you apply to a Microsoft site license when you want to release open source freeware on your own website? I think I missed some step somewhere.

Khanid Voltar
Night's Dawn Investment Fund
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:02:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 25/06/2011 14:27:31

$99 for a site licence is very cheap compared to what some charge.


Not sure how the two scenarios equate.

Let's be clear CCP want to control their intellectual property.

Microsoft want to allow people to use all of their products and ensure that those products work on their platforms.

I mean its somewhat similar I guess... in that you have Software Houses charging for stuff. At that point the similarity ends though. I am not sure whether you are obfuscating on purpose or not.

SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
Posted - 2011.06.25 18:50:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 25/06/2011 14:27:31

$99 for a site licence is very cheap compared to what some charge.


Like the posts above, this is not really the same thing. MSDN Subscriptions allow you access to all their programs for the length of the subscription, you are entitled to download install and test everything. You also have access to an incredible source of programs, libraries, and data all of which you can use in your commercial programs.

CCP are not giving you any programs, or libraries to access or interface with the applications. If you tried to compare the two, CCP would need to release a library and interface for Carbon, the Graphics engine, the Database backend not thought API but direct, any linking library for any part of anything in EVE. Basically leaving just EVE's client which is about 30% of EVE not included. However there would be libraries to interface with the EVE Client.

That is not what is happening here, CCP are limiting the data to what is obtained across API, the rest you have to do, the program, the interface, everything.

CCP have always made it clear they can change the rules, and that is always a major factor. The nice thing about them changing the rules is if you develop an application, at least you can separate it from EVE with a single stroke, remove the API gathering.

One thing I've been thinking about and going to suggest to Hexxx (Yeah Hexxx, this is the first you'll see of this) is making sure EVE Insurance's back end is stripped of EVE and CCP identity. The reason is to allow the programming and database to be individual, something in the court of law that we could show that absolutely and unequivocally unrelated to EVE or any CCP intellectual property.

I'm debating on taking those measures because if at some time CCP do choose to increase the price, or Hexxx chooses to sell the accounting programing that CCP do not have a leg to stand on. The design is already modular EVE Insurance is a module of Solar, The banking/User account information is a Module etc. If worse come to worse, selling the service which happens to take data provided by a customer and run accounting and reporting on that data with zero connections to CCP excludes Solar from any license, So long as we can prove all it does is perform accounting and reporting on data provided rather then actually linking it to EVE. Remember you could do what Solar does by entering the data into Quicken..

Remember - You are the programmer, just because it can take and understand data which is generated by EVE and does something with it, doesn't mean it's EVE related or infringing on their Intellectual property.

The only part which is intellectual property is the data, which we are not responsible for users using Solar as a function of EVE. Just as Quicken wouldn't be responsible if someone used Quicken. Possibly the part that "understands" the data provided. But the rest of the program, the website, and everything else has nothing to do with EVE, or CCP. Remove that interface, create a data reconciliation program that spits out a Solar only understandable data block, well, how can CCP even consider Solar be EVE related..

The little program that is given away free that does nothing but phrase the data in a way to make solar understand it is CCP/EVE, but Solar itself is not.

I think of this to protect Hexxx and his program, because it can be more then just EVE, when done you could use this to run a real business, that's the goal, so close to reality that it can be sold on it's own merits.

Programmers should heed this advice, and alter their code design accordingly.


 

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