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blankseplocked [EL-G/FDU] War in Intaki, and negligence by local interests
 
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Richard Wensbane
Caldari
OdaTech
Posted - 2011.07.14 05:46:00 - [91]
 

The way I see it, the Caldari State is well beyond the need for "PR." It's no secret that we would like to exploit the Intaki and their native system. We don't deny it (nor should we). But we are more than ready to do so via lucrative commercial deals - which end up benefiting both sides - instead of just "charging back in" and making a general mess of things.

It's pretty much pointless for the Protectorate to mark this system as a high-priority target. Thanks to one of our more liberal megacorporations, we are already getting what we want out of it.
Setting the stage for an invasion would only serve to compromise what we already have and would ultimately help the Federation alone - by giving them an excuse to get these people back under their own "iron grip."

I say let it be. If having a strictly civilian presence on this system is the necessary compromise for the betterment of the State as a whole, then so be it. It's an easy enough price to pay.
The Gallente aren't wanted there (they never took good care of the place anyway). Truth be told, after our previous occupation, neither are we. But so long as Ishukone is, I say we do our best to keep the status quo.

Vikarion
Caldari
State Trade Consortium
Posted - 2011.07.14 06:06:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Diana Kim
I am ready to judge them, torture them and kill them, knowing they will do to me the same. It's my destiny and it's my fate, and I will bear it to the bitter end.


Miss Kim, your zeal is commendable, nonetheless, please allow me to caution you on a few points.

First, while I acknowledge your strength as a warrior, let me caution you against mistreatment of prisoners or civilians, especially torture. I understand that you may mean this as a figure of speech rather than literal torture, nonetheless, I feel that I must warn you against such actions.

It is true that the Gallente military regularly tortures and sexually molests Caldari POWs. It is also true that there are many in the FDU, Federation, and perhaps even on Intaki who both defend and advocate such practices, either because we "deserve it", or because Caldari are "barbarians", and "sub-human".

We are better than that. We are better than the Federation. We have always been armored by the righteousness of our cause, by the moral nature of our struggle. It is our people that the Federation attempted to exterminate. It is our homeworld that they bombarded and stole. It is our nation that they have attempted to snuff out ever since.

If we commit evil acts - if we attack civilians, if we torture, if we mistreat POWs...well, then we give the Gallente Federation aid and comfort. If we do such things, they will be free, perhaps even with justification, to claim that we are no better than they are. Look at what they are forced to claim now: that our occupation might result in shortages of electronic goods, or perhaps greater pirate activity in the region. These things are not our fault, they are not evils we have control over. Notice how they still grasp at them. Now imagine how they would try to use even a single example of torture or civilian deaths against us.

But the propaganda viewpoint is, quite frankly, a side issue. The real issue is morality. Are we better than the Gallente, or not? I say we are, and should be. Our nation, the State, does NOT cause needless civilian casualties. Our nation is NOT the one that attempts genocide. Our nation does NOT torture POWs. We have our faults, yes, but we at least seek to be decent, righteous, and honorable.

The right path, the honorable path, is often more difficult. But it is better. Let us fight with clean blades, not dirtied, fouled ones. Let us fight for the State, rather than merely against the Gallente. Let us not let our enemies define us, but define ourselves by what we fight for.

The State. The Corporations. The Caldari People. Forever!

Valdezi
Amarr
Intaki Security and Intelligence
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.07.14 06:32:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Richard Wensbane
The way I see it, the Caldari State is well beyond the need for "PR." It's no secret that we would like to exploit the Intaki and their native system. We don't deny it (nor should we). But we are more than ready to do so via lucrative commercial deals - which end up benefiting both sides - instead of just "charging back in" and making a general mess of things.

It's pretty much pointless for the Protectorate to mark this system as a high-priority target. Thanks to one of our more liberal megacorporations, we are already getting what we want out of it.
Setting the stage for an invasion would only serve to compromise what we already have and would ultimately help the Federation alone - by giving them an excuse to get these people back under their own "iron grip."

I say let it be. If having a strictly civilian presence on this system is the necessary compromise for the betterment of the State as a whole, then so be it. It's an easy enough price to pay.
The Gallente aren't wanted there (they never took good care of the place anyway). Truth be told, after our previous occupation, neither are we. But so long as Ishukone is, I say we do our best to keep the status quo.


Hear, hear.

Alain Octirant
Gallente
Federal Nationalist Party
Posted - 2011.07.14 06:36:00 - [94]
 

Edited by: Alain Octirant on 14/07/2011 06:47:14
Originally by: Vikarion

But the propaganda viewpoint is, quite frankly, a side issue. The real issue is morality. Are we better than the Gallente, or not? I say we are, and should be. Our nation, the State, does NOT cause needless civilian casualties. Our nation is NOT the one that attempts genocide. Our nation does NOT torture POWs. We have our faults, yes, but we at least seek to be decent, righteous, and honorable.


You mean like this genocide?:

Quote:
Nouvelle Rouvenor, an underwater city on Caldari Prime, primarily inhabited by Gallente citizens. Caldari partisans sabotaged the glass dome of the underwater city at the onset of the Caldari-Gallente War. More than half a million perished. From then on a lengthy, bloody war between the two races was all but inevitable.


Or perhaps this one:

Quote:
On entering the atmosphere the ship broke into several burning pieces, killing all aboard. But the largest of these pieces reached the ground and one of them hit the city of Hueromont, killing roughly two million people.


If you think that your people are blameless for the current troubles, then you'd better rename your country from 'Caldari State' to 'Fantasyland'.


Bataav
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
Posted - 2011.07.14 11:56:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Alain Octirant
Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes

Indeed.

Especially when the Federal Nationalist Party have something gift wrapped.
Originally by: Alain Octirant in response to Sakaane Eionell
Have you considered a career in politics? The Party could use a young vibrant go-getter like yourself! Let me know if you would consider an internship!


Desiderya
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2011.07.14 16:16:00 - [96]
 

Edited by: Desiderya on 14/07/2011 16:17:35
What are two cities compared to a whole planet, a whole civilization?
In a war the Caldari haven't even started themselves?
Horrible events, indeed, but you truly grasp at every straw to vilify.

Diana Kim
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.07.17 17:42:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Vikarion

First, while I acknowledge your strength as a warrior, let me caution you against mistreatment of prisoners or civilians, especially torture. I understand that you may mean this as a figure of speech rather than literal torture, nonetheless, I feel that I must warn you against such actions.


Thank you for your reply.
First of all, I would like to note, that despite everything you heard from or about me, I never killed a civilian or tortured a POW without a really good reason to it. I will never torture a POW if he tells everything we need to know and behaves him/herself appropriately.

What about killing civilians is, I am strictly against killing innocents if they don't act against us. Casualties because of misunderstanding or redundant precautions happen often during war, and sometimes it turns a choice - either you or those who pretend to be civilians. And when you are military, you don't have time to think and analyze, and you shoot... And whom to blame if not Gallenteans, who throw civilians at us to save their heads? What if they hide themselves behind innocents, putting them in the line of fire?

It is the Federation who 'threw' Intaki system at us as a part of warzone. It is Federation's politician Alain Octirant, who is trying to recruit Sakaane Eionell to throw her at us, while sitting in his safe office.

Civilian deaths is a tragedy but sometimes you can't avoid it. If I will need to kill a hundred of innocents to save a thousand of innocents from imminent death, I will do it with my own hands without hesitation. And let those gallente dogs call me butcher, I will save much more than just by letting this hundred live. And this I call the proper morality.

Sakaane Eionell
Intaki Liberation Front
Posted - 2011.07.17 19:14:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Alain Octirant
Ah, my dear lady, you wound me.

I trust then you will more carefully consider your words the next time you make an attempt at recruitment!

Originally by: Alain Octirant
The events to which I refer prefigure your time in the ILF, but I assure you, before the PR department got its heads screwed on straight, your dear friends helped the Caldari roll into Intaki by shooting Federal plexers en masse in fleets with Damar Rocarion.

Considering your earlier proclamations and your political alignment, I find your statement highly biased and therefore suspect, and will pay it no heed.

Originally by: Alain Octirant
That aside, you are mistake to place so much faith in Ishukone. As I've said before, and I'll say again:

Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes

Recognizing Ishukone as the least of all Caldari evils does not equate to having faith in it. In any spectrum there must inevitably be something at the "least" end, while yet another something occupies the "greatest" end, and everything else falls somewhere in between. Ishukone happens to fall at the "least" end due to some of its redeeming qualities, that is all.

Originally by: Richard Wensbane
The Gallente aren't wanted there (they never took good care of the place anyway). Truth be told, after our previous occupation, neither are we.

My goodness. A Caldari who can see reason! Please do continue promoting this particular view.

Originally by: Alain Octirant
If you think that your people are blameless for the current troubles, then you'd better rename your country from 'Caldari State' to 'Fantasyland'.

This wound will never heal by constantly hacking at the scab. The argument between the Gallente and the Caldari is over a century old. What does it matter now who is to blame, or who started it? Live in the present. It is enough that the conflict exists; it needs to end so all the rest of us can live in peace too.

The problem is, the conflict will continue to exist as long as both sides persist in pointing the finger at one another. The conflict will continue to exist as long as both sides are too prideful and arrogant to admit their own mistakes and let go of the past. The conflict will continue to exist as long as both sides give in to old habits and never strive to be the better people.

No one can change what happened back then, so what is to be gained by constantly dragging up ancient history and perpetuating those mistakes? Why drag in other nations such as mine?

When will the Federation swallow its pride and acknowledge it harms itself by stubbornly holding onto land which other people have such a great personal connection to, and original claim to, all for the sake of a line arbitrarily drawn on a map?

When will the State swallow its arrogance and acknowledge it harms itself by stubbornly clinging to the idea it must obliterate the Federation in order to regain what it has lost? Claiming Intaki will not bring the Caldari one iota closer to reclaiming their homeworld. Concentrate on Luminaire, and leave us alone.

Originally by: Bataav
Especially when the Federal Nationalist Party have something gift wrapped.
Originally by: Alain Octirant in response to Sakaane Eionell
Have you considered a career in politics? The Party could use a young vibrant go-getter like yourself! Let me know if you would consider an internship!


Do not worry, Kaint'Ahm. I will not fall prey to this wolf in sheep's clothing.


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