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Ron Whisper
Caldari
Undiscovered Force
Posted - 2011.07.01 02:22:00 - [13261]
 

If things keep going the way they are going now, this exodus is going to be a staggering 6000 caracters. I guess one could say this is showing CCP our actions.

On a different note, i'm looking forward to what CCP and CSM will be stating this comming evening. I'm hoping for a straight answer in stead of all the political beating around the bush. Also wondering if there will be an explenation and proper apology twords their blunders.

Apart from this i hope there will be a change to the level of NDA and the introduction of a proper filing and documentation system in the programming proces.

Gil Warden
Gallente
Priory of Empire
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.01 02:49:00 - [13262]
 

Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Originally by: Capsuleer Newton

With the current PLEX system, anyone with daddy's credit card can acquire much of anything he/she wants thru the purchase of Game Time cards and coverting it to PLEX then selling the PLEX.



I take exception to that. I have my own credit cards thank you Neutral


Heh, White Noise certainly did.

Garreth Vlox
Minmatar
Obsidian Inc.
Posted - 2011.07.01 02:59:00 - [13263]
 

Originally by: Capsuleer Newton


On the Otherhand, since CCP did not clearly specify the items involved or to be introduced with its MT, many speculate that it might involve game changing items


its not so much a concern as it is an very possible outcome given soundwaves quote in my sig

Novak Sarin
Posted - 2011.07.01 03:23:00 - [13264]
 

443 pages later and I'm still waiting for the parley...

Orlacc
Posted - 2011.07.01 03:29:00 - [13265]
 

So running 5 accounts is not P2W?

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.01 03:47:00 - [13266]
 

Edited by: Toovhon on 01/07/2011 03:53:26
Originally by: Orlacc
So running 5 accounts is not P2W?


Have you ever tried running five accounts at once? It's not so great (to say the least) in PvP where quick reaction matters. It certainly can't compare to five real PvPers.

PvE and industry, sure - multi-boxing five accounts works well. But how do you propose stopping people from paying for additional accounts? Eve already prevents you training more than one character per account.

http://i.imgur.com/NH5Te.gif

Toovhon
Posted - 2011.07.01 03:49:00 - [13267]
 

Originally by: Novak Sarin
443 pages later and I'm still waiting for the parley...


I'd settle for parsley right now...

Kewso
Posted - 2011.07.01 03:50:00 - [13268]
 


Jaik7
Posted - 2011.07.01 04:14:00 - [13269]
 

Originally by: dark Quantum
es ist einfach nur eine frechheit,in einem abo-mmo einen ingame shop zu installieren. gut, optische anpassungsmöglichkeiten gegen echtes geld .... da hab ich geraaaaaade noch so verständniss für. schließlich können aktive spieler (mich selbst eingeschlossen) mindestens einen account in der regel auch über ingame währung (isk) finanzieren. sehr viele spieler tun das. andererseits ist jeder mit isk finanzierte monat, im vorfeld schon von jemandem mit echtem geld bezahlt worden (plex). hinter dem ingame shop steht also nichts anderes als (welch "überraschung") die pure geldgier seitens ccp. lange rede, kurzer sinn: sollte ccp wirklich exclusiv über den ingame shop wie angedroht schiffe, module etc verkaufen, die spielern einen spielerischen vorteil verschaffen, werde ich meine 2 accounts an den nagel hängen....so sehr ich eve auch liebe!


using babylon translation:

It is just a joke,in a subscription-mmo a ingame shop to install. well, optical customization against real money .... since i've yet geraaaaaade so accomodating for. Finally, active players (including myself) at least one account in the rule also on ingame currency (isk) finance. very many players do this, on the other hand each month, in the run-up to ISK financed from someone who had been paid for with real money (plex).

lol?

Jaik7
Posted - 2011.07.01 04:18:00 - [13270]
 

Originally by: Bernice 9000
Question for unsubbers...
I understand the general fear and issue with MTs but EVE already has microtransactions for non-vanity items since Plex breaks into ISK.
I can see it kind of being an issue if tech 3 ammo was developed and only released through aurum... however since that currency is still available through in game means... and since people will still be traders of any and all commodities... these items would be readily available on the market for normal isk.(it would also prove to be a great isk sink)

So... given the unique market of eve and in-game/real-life commodity that is plex, I really do not see the crux of the problem here. Sorry.


heres the deal, every t3 bullet would have to be bought through aurum, which is made from plex. whether you buy plex with real money or with isk, someone gave ccp 20 USD for it.

also important is that there is no manufacturing in this. the only NPC seeded items on the markets are BPOs, the rest of it is player made, rock to mineral to manufactory. these pay to win items ignore that whole thing and allow a guy with too much RL or ingame cash to blow to refit a fleet of pods from one station in less than a day, not once touching any part of the production line.

Da Gooch
Posted - 2011.07.01 04:22:00 - [13271]
 

Originally by: Jaik7
Originally by: Bernice 9000
Question for unsubbers...
I understand the general fear and issue with MTs but EVE already has microtransactions for non-vanity items since Plex breaks into ISK.
I can see it kind of being an issue if tech 3 ammo was developed and only released through aurum... however since that currency is still available through in game means... and since people will still be traders of any and all commodities... these items would be readily available on the market for normal isk.(it would also prove to be a great isk sink)

So... given the unique market of eve and in-game/real-life commodity that is plex, I really do not see the crux of the problem here. Sorry.


heres the deal, every t3 bullet would have to be bought through aurum, which is made from plex. whether you buy plex with real money or with isk, someone gave ccp 20 USD for it.

also important is that there is no manufacturing in this. the only NPC seeded items on the markets are BPOs, the rest of it is player made, rock to mineral to manufactory. these pay to win items ignore that whole thing and allow a guy with too much RL or ingame cash to blow to refit a fleet of pods from one station in less than a day, not once touching any part of the production line.


Well said, it's nice to see some people on the forums have some form of intelligence and for other explanations read the link bellow

READ THIS

Londo Cebb
Official Market Discussions Troll
Posted - 2011.07.01 05:03:00 - [13272]
 









[Edit] for spelling.

Jaik7
Posted - 2011.07.01 05:05:00 - [13273]
 

my explanation is what i'm a little afraid of.

i've got this mental image of an alliance that is cornered into one outpost, blowing the last isk reserves to buy supercaps from the NEX, causing them to be able to reship their cap pilot several times and eventually winning through luck or the opposition wearing out.

that scenario applies even if the NEX items are of equal value to normal goods, and i doubt very much that any non vanity items that are introduced will be only equal to what anyone else might buy.

CCP's non response confirmed for me enough that i have given my two accounts to my corp. in case you havent been told, they fixed the lag problem on Perpetuum for now. server load went from 100% to 5%. it is really the closest thing to eve that does not have CCP.

still, Avatar Creations (the group who owns Perpetuum) is Hungarian. what is with my addiction to europeon MMOs?Smile

Romulus XII
GONE RETARD BACK LATER
Posted - 2011.07.01 05:17:00 - [13274]
 

In short:


CCP thanks you for f***ing this game royaly and on behalf of many people who feel the same we thank you.

We keep up with a lot of bulls**t yet we keep playing this game (not for free) because we like it and we have history.

I will stop donating the cost of running 6 account to this circus.

Zarak1 Kenpach1
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
Posted - 2011.07.01 05:23:00 - [13275]
 

going down to 2 accounts from 4 for the time being with the option to un sub the last two if i hate what i see next. +1 perpetuum account however.

Tomagothi Isk'Lair
Posted - 2011.07.01 05:26:00 - [13276]
 

I am a newcomer to EVE, drawn to the promise of something new and different that outshines all of the other competitive MMO's. Ive only been playing for about a month now and upgraded two trial accounts to regular full accounts. What makes EVE different and appealing from all of the other MMO's is the fact that the economy and crafting is completely player driven: driven by supply and demand with materials farmed by and created by other players. Do NOT stoop to the level of other MMO's by using microtransactions as a way to enhance a player experience and line your pockets. Even in World of Warcraft, items available for real money are vanity items that do not seriously change in-game dynamics and are mostly purely cosmetic. I like what EVE has to offer AS IS and made the time commitment to play this game. These changes and proposed changes are not what is going to keep me playing this game. As a person who fits into the demographic of a generic "gamer", I am telling you, I am not and will not spend any more of my money to play any game outside of the initial startup cost and monthly subscription fee for an MMO. In plain words, I will NOT ever utilize any microtransaction's within an MMO. I don't care how cool or shiny it looks, it's not going to happen.

Kilmiester
Posted - 2011.07.01 05:39:00 - [13277]
 

Edited by: Kilmiester on 01/07/2011 05:40:06
I've been quiet the past couple days... been playing perpetuum and I even reactivated my *gasp* wow account. I have to say I already miss EVE, but I await the results of the great stall and keep alive my fading hopes that it will be positive.
[Edit] I fail at drunkin typing

Bek Thyron
Posted - 2011.07.01 05:48:00 - [13278]
 

Originally by: dark Quantum
es ist einfach nur eine frechheit,in einem abo-mmo einen ingame shop zu installieren. gut, optische anpassungsmöglichkeiten gegen echtes geld .... da hab ich geraaaaaade noch so verständniss für. schließlich können aktive spieler (mich selbst eingeschlossen) mindestens einen account in der regel auch über ingame währung (isk) finanzieren. sehr viele spieler tun das. andererseits ist jeder mit isk finanzierte monat, im vorfeld schon von jemandem mit echtem geld bezahlt worden (plex). hinter dem ingame shop steht also nichts anderes als (welch "überraschung") die pure geldgier seitens ccp. lange rede, kurzer sinn: sollte ccp wirklich exclusiv über den ingame shop wie angedroht schiffe, module etc verkaufen, die spielern einen spielerischen vorteil verschaffen, werde ich meine 2 accounts an den nagel hängen....so sehr ich eve auch liebe!


Babelfisch translate sucks, but so do i:

"It is just a joke to install an itemshop in a subscription-based mmo. Ok, appearance customization for real money, i can baaaaarely accept this. At last, active player (myself included) can afford to pay one or more accounts with PLEX (isk bought). Many players do it. But, every used PLEX was bought from another player, who paid with real money for it. Behind the item-shop stands nothing but (surprise surprise!) the pure greed of ccp. TLDR: If ccp offers ships, modules, stuff that will give the players advantages etc. in the ingame-shop, i will quit my 2 accounts - even if i love eve so much."

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.07.01 05:52:00 - [13279]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 01/07/2011 05:55:48
Originally by: Jaik7
Originally by: dark Quantum
es ist einfach nur eine frechheit,in einem abo-mmo einen ingame shop zu installieren. gut, optische anpassungsmöglichkeiten gegen echtes geld .... da hab ich geraaaaaade noch so verständniss für. schließlich können aktive spieler (mich selbst eingeschlossen) mindestens einen account in der regel auch über ingame währung (isk) finanzieren. sehr viele spieler tun das. andererseits ist jeder mit isk finanzierte monat, im vorfeld schon von jemandem mit echtem geld bezahlt worden (plex). hinter dem ingame shop steht also nichts anderes als (welch "überraschung") die pure geldgier seitens ccp. lange rede, kurzer sinn: sollte ccp wirklich exclusiv über den ingame shop wie angedroht schiffe, module etc verkaufen, die spielern einen spielerischen vorteil verschaffen, werde ich meine 2 accounts an den nagel hängen....so sehr ich eve auch liebe!


using babylon translation:

[...]

lol?

here's a better translation for you:

It's an absolute joke to install an in-game shop in a subscription-based MMO. Granted, visual customization against real money... that's something I can baaaaarely tolerate. After all, active players (myself included) are usually able to fund at least one account with in-game currency (isk). Many players do this. On the other hand each month that is funded with isk has already been paid for by somebody else with real money (plex). Hence, the only motivation for this in-game shop is (quelle surprise) straight greed on part of ccp.
In short: if ccp should really sell ships, modules, ... which give players an in-game advantage for real money (as threatened), I will cancel my two accounts ... no matter how much I love [everything else about] eve!

edit: lol, Bek Thyron beat me to it.

Jaik7
Posted - 2011.07.01 05:57:00 - [13280]
 

Originally by: Tomagothi Isk'Lair
I am a newcomer to EVE, drawn to the promise of something new and different that outshines all of the other competitive MMO's. Ive only been playing for about a month now and upgraded two trial accounts to regular full accounts.

What makes EVE different and appealing from all of the other MMO's is the fact that the economy and crafting is completely player driven: driven by supply and demand with materials farmed by and created by other players.

Do NOT stoop to the level of other MMO's by using microtransactions as a way to enhance a player experience and line your pockets. Even in World of Warcraft, items available for real money are vanity items that do not seriously change in-game dynamics and are mostly purely cosmetic. I like what EVE has to offer AS IS and made the time commitment to play this game. These changes and proposed changes are not what is going to keep me playing this game.

As a person who fits into the demographic of a generic "gamer", I am telling you, I am not and will not spend any more of my money to play any game outside of the initial startup cost and monthly subscription fee for an MMO. In plain words, I will NOT ever utilize any microtransaction's within an MMO. I don't care how cool or shiny it looks, it's not going to happen.


what you had was what we call a "wall of text". mostly because the immense block of words acts as a barrier to reading and comprehension. most people just skip over the walls, ignoring them. break up the wall with paragraphs and people will pay attention.

i'm glad that you, being new around here, can tell whats wrong with MT for game changing items. i find it sad that CCP, who has been around from the beginning, can't seem to figure out why.

Kendra Wilkinson
Posted - 2011.07.01 05:59:00 - [13281]
 

Originally by: Zarak1 Kenpach1
going down to 2 accounts from 4 for the time being with the option to un sub the last two if i hate what i see next. +1 perpetuum account however.


Originally by: Kilmiester

I've been quiet the past couple days... been playing perpetuum and I even reactivated my *gasp* wow account. I have to say I already miss EVE, but I await the results of the great stall and keep alive my fading hopes that it will be positive.
[Edit] I fail at drunkin typing



"Next time, use your brain before spread **** on girlfriend/wife", i hope the server will return "no you cant re-sub cauz you was involved in protest but do you want a monocle ?"

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.07.01 06:23:00 - [13282]
 

Originally by: Jaik7

i'm glad that you, being new around here, can tell whats wrong with MT for game changing items. i find it sad that CCP, who has been around from the beginning, can't seem to figure out why.


I'll tell you confirmation bias and yes men. Hilmar's got visions of dollars dancing in his head and is only listening to people who support his belief that MT will be a river of money into their coffers. Apparently Confirmation bias is a cultural trait in Icelandic men.

Ranita Drell
Intaki Liberation Front
Posted - 2011.07.01 06:23:00 - [13283]
 

It seems unlikely to me at this point that CCP will let the NeX store completely bypass the player-based economy by having NeX work as a vending machine for usable gear that requires only aurum as currency. Of course, CCP has surprised me before with some of their shenanigans.

We've already been told that they want to add blueprint/item trade-in functionality to NeX (ostensibly for vanity ships). So they could have it so if you want to buy a 425mm 'Noble' Autocannon the store would require that you pay a 425mm Autocannon II (or maybe some faction gun) plus 750 aurum.

This will still have an affect on the economy though, because any item they introduce will be competing in the market with any item of comparable power/utility. It could also increase demand for whatever items are needed for trade-ins in the NeX store, which could give a boost to certain areas of the economy, including aspects of industry.

So I could see the introduction of non-vanity MT goods being non-ruinous in its impact, but it's a can of worms that I'd hate to see opened. No matter how you cut it, selling non-vanity ships, ammo and equipment would involve injecting value/power directly and immediately into the game with real life money, something that doesn't happen with the current P2W scheme enabled through PLEX. I don't know if that would end up actually being a big deal or not, but it would entail EVE losing some of its "purity" and I can imagine that things could get out of control.

So while I can't pretend that I'd be able to anticipate all of the outcomes of this proposal or that, one I do know for certain is that even the threat of non-vanity items on the horizon makes me feel a lot less enthusiastic about the game. And of course EVE has other issues, and there's nothing that's been released recently, or which has been announced for the near future that seems all that exciting to me. I could also see the game further suffering as some of the game's most active and invested members of the community quit or start playing less. A fail cascade, more or less.

Word out of the summit from the CSM sounds pretty optimistic. I hope that's justified, but I'm skeptical. What I really am hoping for more than anything else is that they announce something definitive -- something that will make me happy about keeping my subscription active, or a clear signal that EVE isn't the game for me.

Smoking Blunts
Posted - 2011.07.01 06:30:00 - [13284]
 


Raknarg Valklear
Posted - 2011.07.01 07:22:00 - [13285]
 

bump













$$cashellence$$

shilpi
Posted - 2011.07.01 07:53:00 - [13286]
 

Any news from CSM - Greed Is Good meeting?
I hope that CSM doesn't bends backwards to accommodate CCP, but instead truly represents feelings of player base.
I think I am from one of those many players who are waiting for this meeting results to come out.

Smagd
Encina Technologies
Namtz' aar K'in
Posted - 2011.07.01 08:06:00 - [13287]
 

Good morning.

So we're supposed to get a message from the CSM today, is that still true?

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.07.01 08:12:00 - [13288]
 

Originally by: Smagd
Good morning.

So we're supposed to get a message from the CSM today, is that still true?


Yes, though likely later in the day I would suspect. They said they had a full day scheduled.

Canasa
Posted - 2011.07.01 08:33:00 - [13289]
 

On another note... It's the weekend. We know how to riot. If they give the right answer, how do we party?Cool

Sellendis
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.01 08:41:00 - [13290]
 

Originally by: Canasa
On another note... It's the weekend. We know how to riot. If they give the right answer, how do we party?Cool


Same we always do, light Jita on fire.


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