open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked An overdue apology and request for parley
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 436 437 438 439 [440] 441 442 443 444 ... : last (449)

Author Topic

Luckytania
Gallente
Bullets of Justice
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:36:00 - [13171]
 

Edited by: Luckytania on 30/06/2011 16:36:03
Originally by: Skex Relbore
Originally by: Shintai
Edited by: Shintai on 30/06/2011 16:08:41
Originally by: Alexandra Alt
Quote:

We just went through the pricing decisions for NEX initial rollout. #tweetfleet #csm6



Ok, NEX is to stay as seen from this tweet, you just lost a subscriber, bye.


CSM is just a joke. What had you expected? They are more busy playing important while CCP gets to say everything.

CSM basicly consist of the biggest attention*****s in EvE.


Attention *****s don't generally go along to get along since that tends to minimize the attention paid to them.

I'm pretty sure CCP has a range of options they are willing to negotiate within. They will have their preferred scenario as well as the least preferred that is still acceptable to them from a business perspective.

Unfortunately the CSM are at a disadvantage in that CCP has all the data and can present it in a selective manner so we're hoping that the CSM are people who can read between the lines and see what data is missing from what is shown. Unfortunately I'm not sure on the backgrounds of any of the CSM so I have no idea whether or not any of them have the kind of data analysis background to see that.

I do get the feeling at least in the case of Seleene and Mittens that they are not the types of people to sit meekly through a bull**** session. So there is a decent chance that they'll be able to fight CCP back to the least preferred but acceptable alternative.

Sadly even if we achieve some level of victory today it'll just be a temporary reprieve until they try to push it through again.

re: Seleene

Unfortunately, pretty sure I've read that Seleene was not able to make this trip. No idea if CCP offered any sort of remote real-time participating, but I doubt it.

Kailithi
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:40:00 - [13172]
 

(source = twiiter)

Quote:

@Trebor_csm (11.58)
This meeting is going well and is very productive. We will likely be issuing a joint statement at the end of summit. #tweetfleet #csm6
...

@Trebor_csm (12.01)
On the schedule for the afternoon: The NEX - items, strategy, the present and future #csm6 #tweetfleet

...

@Trebor_csm (13.12)
We plan to make a joint statement at the end of day 2 with specific details and points agreed to. #csm6 #tweetfleet

@seleene_eve (15.38)
#CSM6 is talking VERY bluntly with CCP Zulu atm about the roll out of the NeX and how the prices were / are perceived. #tweetfleet


@evenews24 (16.05)
@Trebor_CSM #csm6 #tweetfleet denying any possibility for "AUR for NON-vanity items" it's not a priority then?

@Trebor_CSM #csm6 #tweetfleet forgive our bluntness but there is thousand of ppl concerned, many quitted already and it was bcz of NeX

@Trebor_csm (16.08)
@evenews24 forgive MY bluntness; I have tweeted multiple times we will discuss the non-vanity MT issue ALL DAY tomorrow. #csm6 #tweetfleet

..

Seleene_EVE Seleene (16.46)

Back to discussing the NEX roll out and future strategy. This is a... loud meeting but I think we're getting somewhere #CSM6 #tweetfleet

@Trebor_csm (16.56)
NEX store / pricing meeting winding down. Tough, but if CCP explains to you the way they explained to us, less butthurt #csm6 #tweetfleet




These aren't all the #csm6 tagged posts on Twitter, but it's a fair summary.

From the comments I would however sum it up like this:

We are here lads, all is we, we are confident.
They are showing us numbers. We can't tell you though, it's a secret.
They are going to talk about Nex after wining and dinning up.
We will make a joint statement tomorrow
We are getting angry
We are shouting
Sorry lads, we just got gang-****d by CCP Zulu and co. and we haven't even got to discussing all the **** they are going to add to next. Look of the bright side, at least they will use lube on you, we just got rode bare-back Shocked

If it's are consolation CSM, we feel your pain : EVE olution, there's always time for lubricant

biggie fluffy
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:40:00 - [13173]
 

anyone know what the record is for longest theard ever on the forums is .... or most views, .. or anything.

Maj Disaster
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:50:00 - [13174]
 

Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
@
@EVE_Svennig Unclear if formal minutes needed. Joint statement + clarifications in forums may be enough #tweetfleet #csm6
1 minute ago

Formal minutes are definitely needed!! We need to see HOW the decisions were arrived at and what arguments were put forwards by both sides.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:53:00 - [13175]
 

Originally by: biggie fluffy
anyone know what the record is for longest theard ever on the forums is .... or most views, .. or anything.

You're looking at it.

Kharontos
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:56:00 - [13176]
 

Originally by: Maj Disaster
Trebor_CSM Robert Woodhead
@
@EVE_Svennig Unclear if formal minutes needed. Joint statement + clarifications in forums may be enough #tweetfleet #csm6
1 minute ago



A joint statement in which to avoid the big yellow question once again? It's becoming so much clearer now.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:56:00 - [13177]
 

The first day's meetings are winding down. We spent the whole day discussing first the CQ and performance issues, and the initial rollout of the NEX and vanity goods.

Some of the discussions were passionate but not angry. Some very positive things came out, and I think the groundwork was laid for a successful day 2, in which we will discuss the future of microtransactions in EVE.

We are trying to keep people updated on general progress on twitter (#csm6) but the details will have to wait until after the summit. We intend to get information out as soon as humanly possible.

Best,
Trebor

Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:58:00 - [13178]
 

Edited by: Zhula Guixgrixks on 30/06/2011 16:58:42
Originally by: Kailithi

We are here lads, all is we, we are confident.
They are showing us numbers. We can't tell you though, it's a secret.
They are going to talk about Nex after wining and dinning up.
We will make a joint statement tomorrow
We are getting angry
We are shouting
Sorry lads, we just got gang-****d by CCP Zulu and co. and we haven't even got to discussing all the **** they are going to add to next. Look of the bright side, at least they will use lube on you, we just got rode bare-back Shocked




Yep, I don't think all that just serves to troll us . I assume the biz-devs won.

MAN TEH LAZORS !!! Twisted EvilEvil or Very MadTwisted Evil

Kharontos
Posted - 2011.06.30 16:59:00 - [13179]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
The first day's meetings are winding down. We spent the whole day discussing first the CQ and performance issues, and the initial rollout of the NEX and vanity goods.

Some of the discussions were passionate but not angry. Some very positive things came out, and I think the groundwork was laid for a successful day 2, in which we will discuss the future of microtransactions in EVE.

We are trying to keep people updated on general progress on twitter (#csm6) but the details will have to wait until after the summit. We intend to get information out as soon as humanly possible.

Best,
Trebor


We appreciate the update Trebor, looking forward to the outcome of tomorrow's meetings!

Saving Face
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:03:00 - [13180]
 

It was one simple question... fail CSM is fail.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:03:00 - [13181]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
The first day's meetings are winding down. We spent the whole day discussing first the CQ and performance issues, and the initial rollout of the NEX and vanity goods.

Some of the discussions were passionate but not angry. Some very positive things came out, and I think the groundwork was laid for a successful day 2, in which we will discuss the future of microtransactions in EVE.

We are trying to keep people updated on general progress on twitter (#csm6) but the details will have to wait until after the summit. We intend to get information out as soon as humanly possible.

Best,
Trebor


My question is two fold

1 are you asking for any concessions from CCP

2 are CCP offering any?

ie.. are they just telling you what they decided to do or is there any actual give and take going on?

Gloria Stitz
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:07:00 - [13182]
 

Edited by: Gloria Stitz on 30/06/2011 17:07:22
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
The first day's meetings are winding down. We spent the whole day discussing first the CQ and performance issues, and the initial rollout of the NEX and vanity goods.

Some of the discussions were passionate but not angry. Some very positive things came out, and I think the groundwork was laid for a successful day 2, in which we will discuss the future of microtransactions in EVE.

We are trying to keep people updated on general progress on twitter (#csm6) but the details will have to wait until after the summit. We intend to get information out as soon as humanly possible.

Best,
Trebor


What about making cq permanently optional through a disembark button? Is it yes or no?

Ennervation
Minmatar
Eye of God
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:08:00 - [13183]
 

I have been playing Eve for many years now, on and off, and have always held a very special place for Eve. I have watched many alliance tournaments, on occasion while unsubbed even, just to witness the awesomeness that has historically been CPP and the amazing virtual world they have created.

I spent 8 yrs in the US Military, so you will see many breaks in my sub from deployments, but I have always came back to Eve. I have been spending the last couple yrs going to school as a Computer Engineer, and even thought about aggressively attempting to land a job with CCP, as everything I have ever seen (UNTIL now) has been everything I could want to find in a company. Watching footage from alliance tournaments, reading the forum posts about the Fanfest attendees, all of this has always entranced me and fueled my genuine love for CCP.

All of this has changed today..... Every single thing I loved about CCP was thrown in my face like a used "Woman's Sanitary Wipe" after being violated over and over... It saddens me greatly, and I now know that CCP is no longer the amazing thing I once dreamed to be a part of. It is now the exact thing I want to have as little to do with as possible, ESPECIALLY at a professional level.

A part of me wants to think the very thing CCP wants us all to think, it will all blow over and everything will slowly go back to normal (Remember, time is what CCP wants right now, to pacify the crowds). But fundamentally, I am completely disgusted by CCP, and I will never speak of them with the appreciation and love I previously have.

If any of you think MTs are going away, just know, the discussions CCP will have from now on about MTs will not be wether or not to have them, only how slowly and more cleverly can they introduce them. The battle could possibly be won here, but the war will most certainly be lost. How many can CCP milk and pacify in the process? Only time will tell.

The SOLE reason for this entire post, and my distaste, is the leaked views CCP now has, and their shady, sneaky attempts to change their entire business model, which in turn reveals the true character of the corporate professional bull ****ters they have now become.

Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar
Clan Hyena
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:09:00 - [13184]
 

Edited by: Alejan Gerakh on 30/06/2011 17:12:05
Originally by: Saving Face
It was one simple question... fail CSM is fail.

They said they're taking a whole bloody day to argue the point. Sheesh.

Let them have their rounds. When all is said and done and you still think there's bull$#!t, just leave.

Yuki 0nna
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:11:00 - [13185]
 

Thanks for updates, Trebor.

In the discussion of micro-transactions tomorrow, what many of us really need is assurance that CCP has thoroughly considered and has plans to monitor and respond to impact of micro-transaction goods upon the full in-game economy, not just upon market prices of PLEX and ships and equipment, but upon the broader economy of mining, scrapping, and the manufacture of goods.

It is the in-world economy, the in-world production of nearly all items used in the universe of New Eden that makes EVE special, not its game mechanics and rules as a space shoot-em-up. Too much focus on whether this or that P2W item is "fair" to the old-school space cowboys out there misses the larger point.

Khamal Jolstien
Caldari
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:12:00 - [13186]
 

Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Originally by: Saving Face
It was one simple question... fail CSM is fail.

They said they're taking a whole bloody day to argue the point. Sheesh.


If it takes a 'whole bloody day' to figure it out, then we already know the answer. Besides, I highly doubt the CSM is actually trying very hard to enact change. They're still in the "redirect" mode rather than "put the foot down" mode. Which means they're only going to make concessions.

What makes matters worse is the fact that they're not truly representative of us the way a government body would be. CCP needs to talk to US, the CUSTOMERS, rather than a handful of customers. Is easier for a few thousand people to catch someone in a lie than the few CSM whatever's.

Rrama Ratamnim
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:12:00 - [13187]
 

Honestly I'd expect join statements IN DEPTH NOT SOME SHORT CRAP

And hopefully even bullet point minutes even if things like financials are redacted

RabC Nesbitt
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:19:00 - [13188]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
...the groundwork was laid for a successful day 2, in which we will discuss the future of microtransactions in EVE...





Thanks for the post Trebor.

Can I assume the CSM will be stating to CCP (in no uncertain terms) that the majority of the player base does not wish MT to have any future whatsoever?

Kailithi
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:29:00 - [13189]
 

Edited by: Kailithi on 30/06/2011 17:33:01
(edit typo)

Originally by: RabC Nesbitt
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
...the groundwork was laid for a successful day 2, in which we will discuss the future of microtransactions in EVE...





Thanks for the post Trebor.

Can I assume the CSM will be stating to CCP (in no uncertain terms) that the majority of the player base does not wish MT to have any future whatsoever?


Don't hold your hopes up 'cos :
Quote:
@Trebor_csm NEX store / pricing meeting winding down. Tough, but if CCP explains to you the way they explained to us, less butthurt #csm6 #tweetfleet


On day one (CURRENT MT) they took it up the back passage. If they are sore now, what are they going to be like tomorrow when they discuss what's coming NeXt (FUTURE MT) ? Evil or Very Mad

Nothing against the CSM, but I believe it was a lost cause before they set out for Iceland. Maybe I'll eat humble pie, but personally I think CCP will take the 'My way or the highway' stance and sod the consequences.

centurion zulu
Phantom Squad
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:36:00 - [13190]
 


I also think the CSM is wasting their time, other than having some good party time while they are there of coarse.

Only self satisfaction I will get out of all this is that CCP will be getting less money from me. If it doesn't change in a different direction, they will be getting none.

After all, that's all we really have that they want. ROFL


Luckytania
Gallente
Bullets of Justice
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:38:00 - [13191]
 

Originally by: Kailithi

Don't hold your hopes up 'cos :
Quote:
@Trebor_csm NEX store / pricing meeting winding down. Tough, but if CCP explains to you the way they explained to us, less butthurt #csm6 #tweetfleet


On day one (CURRENT MT) they took it up the back passage. If they are sore now, what are they going to be like tomorrow when they discuss what's coming NeXt (FUTURE MT) ? Evil or Very Mad


Ah, but they are "less butthurt".

Doesn't that make you feel better?

Capsuleer Newton
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:43:00 - [13192]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
The first day's meetings are winding down. We spent the whole day discussing first the CQ and performance issues, and the initial rollout of the NEX and vanity goods.

Some of the discussions were passionate but not angry. Some very positive things came out, and I think the groundwork was laid for a successful day 2, in which we will discuss the future of microtransactions in EVE.

We are trying to keep people updated on general progress on twitter (#csm6) but the details will have to wait until after the summit. We intend to get information out as soon as humanly possible.

Best,
Trebor


I wonder who made the agenda, or we're just fools expecting something else, from the looks of it, CCP already had the plan on Non-Vanity or Gaming Changing Items to be introduced in the NeX, and they're not budging from that decision. Because if not, it should have been the first on the agenda, then if both parties agree at one point or another, then Non-Vanity items and its pricing will be discussed.

If you start with the "Vanity Items and its pricing" route, it means the discussion or the meeting will end with "what Non-Vanity/Game-Changing items should be considered out of NeX." I believe CCP already have a list of Items to be part of the NeX at this point, the discussion will only be what will and will not be introduced. Crying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sad

Kewso
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:52:00 - [13193]
 


quite cute kinda
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:55:00 - [13194]
 

My jita is burning sense is tingling.

Kailithi
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:56:00 - [13195]
 

lmao. The CSM need to pay need to this one on twitter :

Quote:
@PoeticStanziel
To the #csm6 ... don't go and get bloody drunk tonight. Tomorrow is important. Be clear-headed and on your toes. Not hungover. #tweetfleet


...

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Vicar2008
Posted - 2011.06.30 17:59:00 - [13196]
 

Tbh,

I think this issue was just the straw that broke the Camels back, please also discuss getting some much needed fixing of the game sorted also. Things such as MoonGoo, Supers, Ship rebalances etc etc, the list is pretty dam big and no one yet seems to be even looking fixing them.

Daisy Warkorr
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:03:00 - [13197]
 

Like Nero, CCP are playing the fiddle whilst Eve burns.

Incarnage was the single worst thing to happen to Eve except for CCP's LACK OF response to customer concerns about it.

The game's screwed unless they rollback Incarna and listen to the players.

Whatever happened to customer care?

NR dino
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:22:00 - [13198]
 

Originally by: Moria Kethar
Greetings CCP

I had considered not getting involved in this discussion (or more everyone yelling and no one answering) and remaining a lurker before this account runs out of time in a week and a half - I have already canceled the reoccurring subscription due to the abhorrent behavior of your representatives and attitude of your company toward the player base.

My decision to leave was not based purely on the recent revelations - but they did spurn the final decision I had been debating. I came to Eve for the player-run economy and universe, the spaceships, the community and the sheer mind-boggling depth of the game compared to other MMO's. This was a game where what mattered most was brains and the will to put them to work - you could be a trader, miner, explorer, pirate, whatever you wanted to. IF you worked for it.

The revelations of the past week have been nauseating - the Incarna launch and all the issues therein with the annoying, slow and resource intensive CQ interface, the Fearless newsletter revelations, the dreadful blog posts from Developers, the email evidence that the CEO does not understand the game/product or community at a basic level, and forum posts. Everything continually avoid answering THE question with a simple yes or no.

Let me make it crystal clear what the question is for myself and many others: "Will CCP at any point offer the ability for players to bypass in-game mechanics (earning SP/Standings), the player-controlled economy (items) or otherwise purchase --any-- form of game-effecting benefit for IRL money?"

This has not been a difficult question to answer in the past (see CCP Shadow, this time last year) but apparently it is impossible now to obtain a straight answer. Indeed, it appears that every single person who has addressed the community has worked very hard to avoid providing a straight, simple answer. One would think that simply saying "No, nothing of this nature is going to happen." would be faster, simpler and leave far fewer doubts in your players minds. All in all, the avoidance makes anything you and your representatives have to say extremely difficult to believe.

This very thread was started with the supposed intention of "parlaying" with the player base. Very little real communication, negotiation or debate with --us-- of any kind has happened. While my best wishes are with CCP Pann - you have other employees who could have stepped up to talk to us. Indeed, the primary communication has informed us that we are (in the eyes of CCP) being unreasonable or overreacting.

The very real impression I have is that EVE is viewed as a cash cow to be milked by CCP for as long as possible until Dust or WoD is online. That there is no real direction for improving Eve itself or evolving Eve further within the context of this wonderful universe that exists. It is simultaneously the pay-to-test bed for the technology that will go into these new games and will also provide the funds for those games.

All this, combined with ongoing ---gameplay--- issues that CCP has continually failed to address for years now. The painfully serious balance issues between faction ships, weapons (can anyone say hybrids?) combined with myrid other issues that have been ongoing for ages that no amount of prettying the stations will resolve. Gameplay -NEEDS- to come first in any game if it is to be a success.

What feeling do new Gallente players have when they get told for the first time that their faction ships are worthless, and to start training toward flying a Drake or just /unsub?

Reinforcing this is staggering self-delusion within the company re: the state - from the now infamous Hilmar email and the Dev blog posts. It seems that those making the decisions have little to no interest in resolving the issues that strike the heart of the game because they see the game as being 'premium' already.

(tl:dr) - I won't be the golden goose with game play issues that you kill to pay for other game

RavenNyx
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:25:00 - [13199]
 

So, MT is here to stay...

@ the entire CSM:
You just lost EvE... Did you even rip CCP a new one for introducing MT, after having lied about it? How can any form of explanation of the MT make me feel less butthurt, when I _KNOW_ CCP thinks of me as a money-maker, and tries to squeeze me for even more cash (they even wrote that in clear text "somewhere")? CCP F'ed up - BIG TIME. _CCP_ needs to make amends. The players, through the CSM needs to admit or accept nothing what-so-ever. Please, members of the CSM; let CCP know that THEY are the ones who need to listen, not you. We, the players/customers, have promised nothing, and will never promise anything - that's not how a business-relationship like this works. You are there to demand stuff on behalf of the players. You need to let CCP know that the customers will stop paying if they don't get their act together. THAT'S why you are there, CSM-delegates, atleast if you feel you are representing THIS player.

CCP is lying, being condecending and viewing the players of New Eden as their subjects, not the *customers* who actually pays their bills... How can anything short of an immediate removal of MTs all together and a sincere apology make me feel LESS butthurt?

I don't wanna' hear about diplomacy, or politics. I don't wanna' read about "agreements". I want a HUGE apology from the CEO of CCP, and legally binding contract written in blood (or some video with Hilmar himself that can be downloaded/saved in some way), that any micro/macro-transactions in EvE Online, will NOT go beyond vanity-items, EVER. I want a copy of AEON-magazine with an apology, so CCP feels less inclined to run away from their promises. And even then I will view anything with a CCP logo on it with sceptisism for a long time to come. How can I do anything else?

Teya Ihara
Posted - 2011.06.30 18:25:00 - [13200]
 

Originally by: Daisy Warkorr

The game's screwed unless they rollback Incarna and listen to the players.



Are some of you people really this naive? You *already know* they aren't going to "roll back Incarna", they aren't going to completely remove the new NEX store, MT will be here to stay, its merely a matter of extent at this point. You already have the answer to what you want done, it's not happening. I know CCP created part of this ****storm by clamming up about it, but with the way this forum community reacts I don't blame them.

At this point you already know the answer to your demand of rolling back Incarna, don't be dumb. The CSM have a very important job of communicating to CCP that the audience they need to keep will not support MT for non-vanity items. Personally, with reasonable prices I'd probably buy some vanity items (ship paints/skins, maybe clothes, whatever) because who cares, to me ISK is funny money. The line has to be drawn at "gold ammo" in EVE specifically. No ships, stat boosts, gameplay advantage etc are acceptable here. THAT is what the CSM will need to focus on for day 2. This is what people SHOULD be concerned with.

Day 1 from the tone in the tweet updates was a lot of setup for going into day 2, which is fine. What I'm expecting, or demanding is a well thought out explanation of where MT is headed in EVE, with maybe some touches on performance of the CQ, ship spinning, and other issues that arose. Just stop being ridiculous, they aren't rolling back Incarna, no matter how much you ***** about it. The *****ing has served its purpose and hopefully we'll get some answers to the stuff we need to know about.


Pages: first : previous : ... 436 437 438 439 [440] 441 442 443 444 ... : last (449)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only