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Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:12:00 - [12541]
 

A new morning has come. Hello Eve community \o/


Parador
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:18:00 - [12542]
 

Top of the mornin' to ya!

In perpetuum as TCBO1 NO MT.
Join me for lots of pew pew Twisted Evil

Heathyy
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:23:00 - [12543]
 

Edited by: Heathyy on 28/06/2011 09:53:10
Edited by: Heathyy on 28/06/2011 09:45:31
after finally sifting through pages of and pages of annoying pyramid quotes, and reading the newsletter which was pretty appalling I think I've actually caught up to the **** storm.

as soon as you guys implement the p2w feature the sandbox is dead, 0.0 died when you took out the sanctums and havens i was actually kinda glad the RMT train took tribute at least I can now make some isk in empire (although i feel bad for the peeps that helped me and lost assets ofc). after that happened all i've seen is pure focus on this cosmetic update to ship spinning which is now character spinning, most ppl multibox, my pc can only just about handle 1 toon in that CQ, once both my alts load in station my pc start croaking. so i've switched it to a background picture, evidentally you took out ship spinning and gave us a static picture... awesome.

there are loads of bugs in the game that have been evident since even i started playing 2 years ago, which haven't even seen any love at all (overview bugs, pos fitting modual bugs, cargo hold item bugs to name just a few)

hows about you guys spend a bit more effort on actually releasing real fixes and game play content before you start chatting about fleesing everyone with MTs'.




Stormchyld
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:29:00 - [12544]
 

Edited by: Stormchyld on 28/06/2011 08:30:28
Originally by: Steven internet
I hope I'll see revenue from dust and wod going to developing eve online. I'm fed up seeing revenue from my subs leaking into games that I wont never play.

What comes into CQ. I, like many many others, play this game to fly spaceships killing spaceships while in space. If I would like to pimp my avatar, shake my virtual ass, walk, run, pose, chat, have a haircut or find a e-GF I would play some OTHER game.......




.... It's obvious to me that Eve is the test bed for their other projects. I'm not a programmer but the way that CQ uses to many resources (people on the highest end hardware are having major issues.. not all, but too many for a public release imo.. obv nothing was done with bug reports on sisi) seems to me that it's a very rough release and we are really the beta testers for refining the code that will go into either WoD, or dust, or both. So, in effect, the people that are staying and in particular the people submitting bug reports from the release of Incarna ARE the beta testers for other games. It's not anything new (imo anyway) but it hasn't been quite so blatantly obvious until this release. That's how I see it anyway.

grevo
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:30:00 - [12545]
 

well the way i see it P2W is cheating. one of the resions i like eve is its so hard for anyone to cheat. i use to play battlefield 2 but gave that away cause of the massive amout of cheating took all of the fun out of it i would REALY hate to lose eve but if thay insist on bringing this crap into the game all the fun would be gone from it so there will be no point in it. and yes i have turned off CQ it just far to hard on my pc and takes too long to load it to be worth it.

Stormchyld
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:32:00 - [12546]
 

Originally by: RougeOperator
Originally by: Graava
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Originally by: Graava
With the financial problems, if we tip them over the edge then this may be the best thing for Eve.

An administrator will look at the company, its cashflow, its earnings, cancel WoD, cancel or mothball Dust and focus the company on the profitable part Eve.



very funny... destroy a large part of CCP's assets just for lulz.




TBH, the greater majority of Eve players could not give a flying f*ck about WoD or Dust. The fact that these titles are getting 90%+ of the dev resources which we are paying for and will have Eve downgraded to just another P2W shambles, this we do care about.


CCP abandons eve its cash cow. Sums it up.

If they will do this to us while we are the cash cow. I can only imagine how bad they will treat us when they their other games up and running.




... +1 ... I can absolutely see that happening

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:37:00 - [12547]
 

Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
After all the good players leave lowsec encounters will go something like this

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Right now they go like this

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.



BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

To be fair... I think low-sec is currently a bit of both. Laughing

Phizban
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:39:00 - [12548]
 

Greatest PR gamble ever. The videos are awesome and the best and largest free advertising gig evar!

It's working... IT'S WORKING!

I want a monocle and SP because Jita was not working, and I want a pony and ice cream and bubble gum too please ok and thank you.


Marc Goth
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:39:00 - [12549]
 

P should remove aurum and isk too

thats my idea about:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1541612

Stormchyld
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:45:00 - [12550]
 

Originally by: Haradriel Tian
A plex is no different the a person that already paid for a subscription in advance. By the logic being used if I pay for my sub a year in advance. Im a liability until my sub comes up again? Just cause im not spreading out my payments.

I don't see it as a liability as many present it to be. CCP gets IRL money for them. Its simply the same as people buying subs for blocks of months or a year. You just need to spread out that income out.

They just need to plan around them better. Such as when you pay for a block of months they need to consider that income split up over those months. They should be able to come up with a formula based on plex redemption to account for them.

And technically they make more on plex since its at full price and not discount as it is for long term subscribers. Plex users are actually paying more to play the game when you think about it.


... there are several good threads in the Market Discussion forum section that I think sums up the financial situation eve is in right now. this is one of the better ones imo. altho there are most likely others. I think if more people read some of these they would have a much better perspective about all of this.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1541148


Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:50:00 - [12551]
 

I want to cry.

Only just realised this MindVirus of F2P/P2W has invaded BF3 and I won't get to enjoy the game I've been looking forward to.

:-(

sad panda.

Oh well guess it's mods and hacks of this generation of games for the next 10 years.

Saving Face
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:51:00 - [12552]
 

Originally by: Stormchyld
... there are several good threads in the Market Discussion forum section that I think sums up the financial situation eve is in right now.


Unfortunately the one you quoted doesn't get it.

CCP itself lists PLEXes as a liability as they are revenue they can not recognize until the subscription period actually starts. It's not something people are presenting it as, it's something that CCP does so they can put them on their balance sheet at all. The term "liability" doesn't actually have a negative connotation in that context. It's standard practice for subscriptions that are paid up front.

And they are considering the income split, or more accurately they don't have to in terms of liability. When you credit a PLEX to your account they can start recognizing the revenue from when it was originally bought, therefore reducing liabilities in their balance sheet.

They only problem they could have with PLEXes is the reduction in cash flow, but that is capped at $3 million in total, and applying all of it in short time is near impossible. You would need about 200k normally paid subscriptions to pay with a PLEX for the same month. Not going to happen.

Aerethir
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:55:00 - [12553]
 

This is bit of a *******sy situation we have arrived in :(

A year ago I signed up, because a colleague played it, and I was a bit of a sheep that way. I trained a couple of skills within those two weeks I played it, and came to the conclusion that this game must be for elite MMO players, and I felt decidedly too stupid to be elite. But I had the itch to become good enough to play *that* game.

I read loads of awesome tales of epic battles, and I loved to read about the finely granulated skill sets, and how one would have to carefully weigh in, what sort of guns would be a good idea to mount, if a certain gun pulls this much CPU, needs that sort of ammunition, and needs that training skill to that level, for an enemy that has that sort of damage weakness. I love the entire mineral system, and I adore, how when I make a Frigate, I have to find an assembly line, get the right minerals there, calculate time, waste and all sorts of other variables, which nicely fit into the EVE story. I had serious dreams about doing this the next five years. I wanted to be part of all this.

Mostly also, because this sort of gameplay tends to attract the sort of people, whom I like to hang around. These are people, who make loyal corp members, powerful enemies, and create a gameplay, which cannot be found in any other place, AFAIK. And this gameplay is created by the fact, that you know that if you get your scrawny mining Frigate blown up in lowsec, it is because the shooter had trained skills to do that, and bought ammo and guns for ISK to do that, and that, come time, and given the fact that I use my own brain in a similar smart way, I can do exactly the same thing. This is very appealing to me. This is, what "elite" MMO player means to me.

We don't know yet for a hundred percent, that CCP is implementing game altering items for AUR in the NeX store.
But if they do, an integral reason for, why I am here, is gone, and I will leave by then.
Not in a hissy fit, but just because I do not tend to pay for games I won't use.

I think CCP is in its right to alter the game as they see fit.
It would just be an incredibly sad thing, if they ruined a game that is so different from all others.

But I can totally see it happen, because this current set up would not be able to support 600+ employees, (as we have seen in the paper stating that CCP calculates the revenue per player too optimistic.)
At Linden Labs they had serious employee haemorrhaging this year already, and if the CCP top decides they won't do that, I can understand it. I can understand, if they feel the need to change the gameplay to something, where those bratty kids with Daddy's golden Elite credit card can buy them the big ships, as apparently in any other game.

I just rather would have seen that EVE Online died, because it was special and the world around it is too dumb to appreciate special gems like this, and not because EVE Online became just another MMO.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.28 08:57:00 - [12554]
 

Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 28/06/2011 08:59:38
Originally by: Aerethir
I just rather would have seen that EVE Online died, because it was special and the world around it is too dumb to appreciate special gems like this, and not because EVE Online became just another MMO.


Unique Selling Point = Lost.
Niche Market? "wtf we want the world, screw security"

Domina Santa
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:12:00 - [12555]
 

Edited by: Domina Santa on 28/06/2011 09:12:58
Lets just hope they don't alter the deal even further, and also include the Pay2Upgrade that most other subscription MMO's use.

They promised us "no microtransactions", they broke that promise...

We'll see what the CSM will get this coming weekend, and if they are going to implement Pay2Win and non-vanity items. All CCP Zulu said was that they weren't going to sell gold ammo. Nothing about other materials though. What I have a problem with is the outright refusal to give us any clear answers, which is why I'm holding back on renewing my 3 subscriptions for now.

Bottom line is, CCP broke the trust of their subscribers, and regaining that trust is very hard once it is lost.

Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, screw you.

Stormchyld
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:14:00 - [12556]
 

Originally by: Saving Face
Originally by: Stormchyld
... there are several good threads in the Market Discussion forum section that I think sums up the financial situation eve is in right now.


Unfortunately the one you quoted doesn't get it.

CCP itself lists PLEXes as a liability as they are revenue they can not recognize until the subscription period actually starts. It's not something people are presenting it as, it's something that CCP does so they can put them on their balance sheet at all. The term "liability" doesn't actually have a negative connotation in that context. It's standard practice for subscriptions that are paid up front.

And they are considering the income split, or more accurately they don't have to in terms of liability. When you credit a PLEX to your account they can start recognizing the revenue from when it was originally bought, therefore reducing liabilities in their balance sheet.

They only problem they could have with PLEXes is the reduction in cash flow, but that is capped at $3 million in total, and applying all of it in short time is near impossible. You would need about 200k normally paid subscriptions to pay with a PLEX for the same month. Not going to happen.



....mkay.. I know enough about finances to fill a thimble. I just thought the discussions over there were informative and might shed more light on why they are going in the direction they are going.

Kailithi
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:17:00 - [12557]
 

Originally by: Kilmiester
Originally by: Maeve Nightside
Real world loans are only part of their prob.

They sold a lot of PLEX to the players. It is like taking out a bond (since plex represents game time. If redeemed it means a drop in subscription income). They have a lot of leveraged debt in game too.

If called in suddenly, it would be a potential hit to their ability to continue operations because their cash-on-hand could dry up.


I don't think they legally have to honor any of it. But it would be pretty disasterous PR to simply delete them all in game or cease honoring them. Not like they're doing much better here, but I guess that's subjective. But, anyone who was evaluating their company's finances would percieve them as a liablity for that exact reason.


^^ Hahahahhahahahha Very Happy

rolflmao doesn't cover it. *wipes away a wear*

I'm sorry, what? Assuming you are talking about the Plex and not the loans...

This I would like to see : CCP Zulu putting a spin on "We are **** broke so are revoking all the Plex we sold you for cold hard cash"

"Dear players, I know we should have been more open about the macro transactions and for that we are sorry (if I find the f***er that leaked that...). From now on we shall be honest and forthright with you, no flip flopping. On that note, the servers are going down for a small patch in 30 seconds. As of today Plex can only be used for Aurum conversion to monocles, not buying game time.
GLHF kiss kiss kiss
~ Arnar"


RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:21:00 - [12558]
 

Edited by: RougeOperator on 28/06/2011 09:21:43
Originally by: Stormchyld
Originally by: Saving Face
Originally by: Stormchyld
... there are several good threads in the Market Discussion forum section that I think sums up the financial situation eve is in right now.


Unfortunately the one you quoted doesn't get it.

CCP itself lists PLEXes as a liability as they are revenue they can not recognize until the subscription period actually starts. It's not something people are presenting it as, it's something that CCP does so they can put them on their balance sheet at all. The term "liability" doesn't actually have a negative connotation in that context. It's standard practice for subscriptions that are paid up front.

And they are considering the income split, or more accurately they don't have to in terms of liability. When you credit a PLEX to your account they can start recognizing the revenue from when it was originally bought, therefore reducing liabilities in their balance sheet.

They only problem they could have with PLEXes is the reduction in cash flow, but that is capped at $3 million in total, and applying all of it in short time is near impossible. You would need about 200k normally paid subscriptions to pay with a PLEX for the same month. Not going to happen.



....mkay.. I know enough about finances to fill a thimble. I just thought the discussions over there were informative and might shed more light on why they are going in the direction they are going.



Short version is that they get plex money up front. So it can make that year/quarter/period look good.

That plex will roll in to the other profits area for that year.

What it does and why its a liability. Is that it makes it hard to predict and make projections for the next period since they cant know when it will be cashed in.

If a lot are cashed in all at once, they could find they are not making enough new money at that point to cover expenses.

It happens with gift cards as well. That's why so many companies did the nasty trick where they lose value over time to be able to take them off the books eventually if they never get used.

Im trying to simplify what I know makes sense to me in my head for you but I think I failed.

In short they need to plan better IMO.

Saving Face
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:38:00 - [12559]
 

Originally by: RougeOperator
If a lot are cashed in all at once, they could find they are not making enough new money at that point to cover expenses.



They are already not making enough new money to cover their expenses. The PLEXes in existance are a lot less and even if you wanted to hurt CCP it would be borderline impossible to use them in a way that has an impact beyond a few $10k per month. They are already burning $700k or so per month due to WoD/Dust development so PLEXes are not a very big deal.

Kailithi
Posted - 2011.06.28 09:49:00 - [12560]
 

Originally by: Nox Aeterna
I leave for a while, and all hell breaks loose? Sheesh.

Last night, I did write a rather lengthy rant to be pasted here. However, since it was more angry than anything else, I will simply say this. CCP has called for a truce. The only honorable thing to do is accept it. Please, for the love of Eve, and respect for the company who gave it to you, let's tone it down a few notches, aye? I have been following this thread for most of this past weekend, and have read everything from weird conspiracy theories about Sony to some inappropriate remarks about CCP Pann's family emergency. What evidence do we have for game changing items being in the MT shop (besides a newsletter designed to exaggerate points)? We have denials about any such thing from CCP Zulu before and after the incident. So, let's see what comes out of the meeting. Which, many of you have said you will ignore anyways. If we've abandoned decency, real evidence, reason, and above all truth, then what is the point? What are we left with?

I've played a lot of MMO's, but Eve is the one I keep coming back to, over and over. I challenge you to find something better.

My subs are still active, btw. Nor do I care about a MT shop (I do care about P2W ever making it in game, however).


They did NOT ask for a truce - they stalled for time, rather a difference difference.

Take a good hard look at the title of this thread, started by CCP Penn "An overdue apology and request for parley"

You see a lot of "parley" going on? Actually, do you see ANY parley whatsoever going on?

Just on this thread 400 pages, 12,000 posts, over a million views, bad PR bouncing around gaming sites, forums, trade journals (oh yes, the trade journals are sat up with this baby!). And this parley you mention...

Two dev blogs from CCP Zulu, one rude and frankly moronic and the other angry we are still angry, self righteous and playing for time.

I'm a **** load of issues with all this, all mine revolving round a lack of trust and the way CCP think of us, however, the burning question is and always has been.
"WILL YOU BE INTRODUCING GAMING CHANGING MT?"

This could have been handled on day one with a post saying "No, we won't"

That more that anything ****es me off. I'm not very tolerant with stupid people. In the "stupid people" category, besides the management disastrous handling of the affair, you can include all the fan boys and nieve hopefuls thinking is won't happen - because they already screamed it all you that it WILL.

Every time there's a post and it's not answered you have your answer.

Despite Helmar claiming this response was " _very predictable feedback_" he is currently rocking back and forth in his chair going WTF?WTF?WTF?WTF?

The reason they won't announce the truth is they just lost about 10,000 accounts in under a week at the mere hint of RTM. How many who you think will bail CCP admit they need to raise the subs AND introduce RTM to cover the day to day costs and outstanding loans, never mind their own ****storm if they don't make the development milestones for Dust 514 and WoD.

FFS, Incarna wasn't even properly beta tested on Macs or ATI graphics card, what chance have the other games got >.< Confused

Stormchyld
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:03:00 - [12561]
 

Originally by: Saving Face
Originally by: RougeOperator
If a lot are cashed in all at once, they could find they are not making enough new money at that point to cover expenses.



They are already not making enough new money to cover their expenses. The PLEXes in existance are a lot less and even if you wanted to hurt CCP it would be borderline impossible to use them in a way that has an impact beyond a few $10k per month. They are already burning $700k or so per month due to WoD/Dust development so PLEXes are not a very big deal.


.. I have a sinking feeling there is more to the sony rumors than CCP is letting on about.

KwaLevu
Caldari
Lost in Missions
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:14:00 - [12562]
 

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81538346/

this is how we should ALL PLAY EVE from now then we would all get along

Dunarad
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:42:00 - [12563]
 

Wow, 420 pages, this is not a threadnaught, it's a titanaught!

FIliphys
Organization of Unallied Capsuleers
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:44:00 - [12564]
 

Originally by: Stormchyld
Originally by: Saving Face
Originally by: RougeOperator
If a lot are cashed in all at once, they could find they are not making enough new money at that point to cover expenses.



They are already not making enough new money to cover their expenses. The PLEXes in existance are a lot less and even if you wanted to hurt CCP it would be borderline impossible to use them in a way that has an impact beyond a few $10k per month. They are already burning $700k or so per month due to WoD/Dust development so PLEXes are not a very big deal.


.. I have a sinking feeling there is more to the sony rumors than CCP is letting on about.



The timing is certainly suspect. SOE gets rid of its only MMO that competes with Eve, just as Eve adds WiS to better make itself marketable to the non-internet spaceships crowd. CCP's denial that SOE is not buying CCP could be a smokescreen to protect the business side of the potential buy-out.Of course I could just be pulling all that out of my a$$ just to stir the conspiracy pot. Twisted Evil

Kailithi
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:46:00 - [12565]
 

Originally by: RougeOperator

...

CCP abandons eve its cash cow. Sums it up.

If they will do this to us while we are the cash cow. I can only imagine how bad they will treat us when they their other games up and running.




^^ What he said, yep!

Azanee Yarabokin
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:47:00 - [12566]
 

Originally by: Kailithi
Originally by: Nox Aeterna
FFS, Incarna wasn't even properly beta tested on Macs or ATI graphics card, what chance have the other games got >.< Confused


Incarna wasn't beta tested, period. It turns my year-old Nvidia card into a toaster. GPU usage is two to three times higher while sitting on my couch watching the New Eden Cable Access channel than being in the middle of the Jita protest. Mind-bogglingly incompetent coding on display, there.

Oh, and CCP, no need to wait for the CSM to answer the bigger question than your coding imcompetence:

Will there ever be "pay-to-win" options in the NeX store?

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:54:00 - [12567]
 

Originally by: Kailithi
Originally by: RougeOperator

...

CCP abandons eve its cash cow. Sums it up.

If they will do this to us while we are the cash cow. I can only imagine how bad they will treat us when they their other games up and running.




^^ What he said, yep!


Yup this is how they treat the golden goose that pays the bills.

Not hard to think what its going to be like for us when we are no longer that cash cow.

Depressing.

jazz keijhlani
Posted - 2011.06.28 10:59:00 - [12568]
 

Originally by: Kailithi

Originally by: RougeOperator
...

CCP abandons eve its cash cow. Sums it up.

If they will do this to us while we are the cash cow. I can only imagine how bad they will treat us when they their other games up and running.



^^ What he said, yep!



Yup this is how they treat the golden goose that pays the bills.

Not hard to think what its going to be like for us when we are no longer that cash cow.

Depressing.




This.....real depressing

Mzee Machado
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:04:00 - [12569]
 

Originally by: Gina Wuxie

CCP has to introduce MT in order to marry it with Dust successfully and they have to do it now to begin beta testing Dust soon and they have to complete Dust because they've already entered into a binding contract with Sony. So now they are stuck in a jam because they expected the players to just accept it and weren't prepared for the overwhelming display of anger and action it received. They called an emergency CSM meeting to figure out what they can do to without breaking contractual agreements.

I think it's awesome what CCP is doing. They are going to be the first ever to marry a PC game with a console game but still allowing them to be independent and connect with each other. Kudo's for them pushing the boundaries and be future inovators. Thats why so many of has have liked EVE for so long now is because they keep being the first to do things and have produced the best scifi game so far. So give them some time to work out the kinks and come to some compromise.

CCP: Why not level with your subscribers and tell them really what is going on. If you are having financial trouble then why nnot ask for our help? We have been loyal fans for years and if you said to your followers that you need help, don't you think we would help? Llok at all the plex for good donations that have been achieved. You asked us for help then, why wouldn't we help a game we love so much and have invested so much time in? Alls we ask is that you level with us honestly about financial concerns and the direction of the items going to be offered in the store.

Sincerely,
GW


I wholeheartidly agreee.
They need to think out of the box to make this game develop further and become its potential. The devout player-base can help with that, but then CCP has got to listen.

Charles Stross, in his book Halting state put forward the idea of a n in-game bank system as a means to facilitate transfers and investments between different games, and also as an investment opportunity binding out-of-game necessities for real money with in-game demands.

For CCP to succeed they have to heed their investors. We are important investors. Without us, no EVE, just crud - or WoW as they call it.

I'd gladly sink money into EVE if I felt that my investment could have some return,if I felt safe that my time and money would be usexd wisely.

Hormus
Posted - 2011.06.28 11:09:00 - [12570]
 

Stay angry. Don't calm down. The moment we calm, we'll have to pay for each of our skillpoints.


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